All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: QF - Cutch vs diarm

[diarm]

You rarely get a team of 11 worldbeaters, you always need a few selfless team players to make the thing work and those aforementioned are certainly 100% no weaker than the likes of Colin Hendry, Rob Jones and David Batty.

I think you're doing Hendry and Jones a huge disservice. They're not immediately popular picks because they starred in the earlier years but both were top top players. I really disagree but that is your opinion.

Mentioning David Batty in the same breath as Gareth Barry is just wrong though. Batty was a far, far superior player than Barry ever was.

Still, i dont think any one in their right mind would claim Van Persie at Arsenal > Henry at Arsenal

No and I'm not. What Henry achieved over his Arsenal career exceeds what Van Persie did over his. What I'm claiming is that at their peak, when he was banging in 30 league goals in a season, Van Persie in a side designed to best suit his playing style > Thierry Henry in a side that doesn't best suit his.

Le Tissier will be dealt with the same way any good 4-4-2 team operates. Petit-Vieira, Scholes-Keane, none of those were what you'd call specialist holding midfielders but it didn't mean they were lost when they came up against someone in Le Tiss' position. You'll see from my graphic that Barry will be pretty close, and the nature of Essiens game is you'll see him here there and everywhere. Certainly not worth sacrificin a man for.

I'll say it again, Barry and Essien aren't Petit/Viera or Keane/Scholes, not by a long shot. I think it speaks volumes that as good a midfielder as he was, even at his peak at Chelsea, he was never played in a two man midfield. It's worth remembering that at his very best (2005-2008), he had Claude Makelele behind him to do the dirty work.

Of the 2 welsh wizards, again i dont think anyone would say that your man Bale has surpassed Ryan Giggs in the PL, and he really is your only ball carrying outlet while i have 3. When comparing pace and power of the respective sides theres only one winner.

Pace and trickery you have, but nobody on your side provides the "pace and power" of Bale. I'm not suggesting Bale ever surpassed Giggs achievements in the prem but his peak was bloody high and he is far better suited to the needs of my team.

I think you need to have a look at Le Tissiers ability on the ball again, and Modric's too. Speed isn't everything in ball carrying, plus when you can play the ball around the pitch as well as my more technically able side, you don't need to run with the ball all day long.

You also have to factor in the ability of Cole and Jones to carry ball on the flanks which is far superior to Clichy and Nilsson.

I jest but its the numbers game again that everyone likes to play. You have Batty assigned to Eider Gudjohnsen but Batty features in this midfield equation but Gudjohnsen doesn't. Then when you comparing the workrate of Essien to the likes of Le Tissier i don't think theres any way my midfield is gonna be overwhelmed.

Because Batty will recede to defend but will obviously also push up as an option when we have the ball. Gudjohnsen will attack but surely you're not expecting him to drop back into midfield and defend when you don't have the ball?

 

[Cutch]

I think you're doing Hendry and Jones a huge disservice. They're not immediately popular picks because they starred in the earlier years but both were top top players. I really disagree but that is your opinion.

Mentioning David Batty in the same breath as Gareth Barry is just wrong though. Batty was a far, far superior player than Barry ever was.

I think they're both alright but they're on the same tier as the players of mine you mentioned. Not matchwinners but cogs.

Batty and Barry were very equal, Batty with a bit more bite but Barry the better passer and overall the greater PL servant which i think is to his disservice as we've been watching him for so long that we're sick of the sight of him. At his best he was so good he sparked the end of Xabi Alonso at Liverpool. Maybe Rafa being crazy but Barry was playing at an extremely high level and mixing it with the best in the league.

No and I'm not. What Henry achieved over his Arsenal career exceeds what Van Persie did over his. What I'm claiming is that at their peak, when he was banging in 30 league goals in a season, Van Persie in a side designed to best suit his playing style > Thierry Henry in a side that doesn't best suit his.

This notion seems to stem from Ryan Giggs not being Robert Pires and Eider Gudjohnsen not being as good as Denis Bergkamp. Otherwise i'm not sure what more i could have done to get Henry in any happier an environment. Its crazy.

I'll say it again, Barry and Essien aren't Petit/Viera or Keane/Scholes, not by a long shot. I think it speaks volumes that as good a midfielder as he was, even at his peak at Chelsea, he was never played in a two man midfield. It's worth remembering that at his very best (2005-2008), he had Claude Makelele behind him to do the dirty work.

Essien remains the standout midfielder on the pitch with no one able to stand up to his athleticism and drive. He didn't need a Makelele, he even played the same role himself. He covered that much ground and was so versatile (CB, RB, DM, CM) that you could play him in any setup with any partner and he'll still flourish.

Pace and trickery you have, but nobody on your side provides the "pace and power" of Bale. I'm not suggesting Bale ever surpassed Giggs achievements in the prem but his peak was bloody high and he is far better suited to the needs of my team.

He's suited to your team cos its crying out for an injection of pace. My team not so much but its not to say any team doesn't need Ryan fecking Giggs.

I think you need to have a look at Le Tissiers ability on the ball again, and Modric's too. Speed isn't everything in ball carrying, plus when you can play the ball around the pitch as well as my more technically able side, you don't need to run with the ball all day long.

Still too slow. Not enough happening ahead of them. I've got the drive of Essien, the pace of Giggs in behind, McManaman breaking at speed and Henry playing off the shoulder. You've got Gareth Bale, and then Van Persie on his own up top against brick shithouse Jaap Stam ably supported by Walker.

You also have to factor in the ability of Cole and Jones to carry ball on the flanks which is far superior to Clichy and Nilsson.

Not ball carriers, good overlapping fullbacks and Cole a particularly good defender but thats as far as i'd go. Clichy was identical in style to Cole while Nilsson isn't required to maraude. Theres nothing superior at all.

Because Batty will recede to defend but will obviously also push up as an option when we have the ball. Gudjohnsen will attack but surely you're not expecting him to drop back into midfield and defend when you don't have the ball?

Certainly not. I've got 2 banks of 4 that will work their absolute ass off in getting the ball back and recycled quickly to hit on the break in devastating style. Again theres no advantage overall numerically, still 11 men on the pitch. You might think Le Tiss will be putting a shift for you in midfield and gaining some sort of numerical supremacy, but it won't be noticed.

 

[Cutch]

Anyway its time for the bed. Have a big run in the mornin. Could miss the conclusion of this.

 

[diarm]

Anyway its time for the bed. Have a big run in the mornin. Could miss the conclusion of this.

Best of luck with it mate! Run as in race?

 

[Cutch]

Best of luck with it mate! Run as in race?

It's an adventure race runnin through lakes and mud and shite, climbin ropes. Utter nonsense, silliest thing I've ever signed up to. Had a footie match last nite and tonight and hav had the busiest week ever in work. It's fair to say i'm fecking knackered which has probably come across in my half arshed write up but its a good team to lose to if it ends up that way. Chat later mate

 

[diarm]

It's an adventure race runnin through lakes and mud and shite, climbin ropes. Utter nonsense, silliest thing I've ever signed up to. Had a footie match last nite and tonight and hav had the busiest week ever in work. It's fair to say i'm fecking knackered which has probably come across in my half arshed write up but its a good team to lose to if it ends up that way. Chat later mate

Bloody hell that sounds impressive!

Fair play mate and this game isn't over yet. I wouldn't be taking anything for granted against a side as good as yours.

 

[antohan]

It's an adventure race runnin through lakes and mud and shite, climbin ropes. Utter nonsense, silliest thing I've ever signed up to. Had a footie match last nite and tonight and hav had the busiest week ever in work. It's fair to say i'm fecking knackered which has probably come across in my half arshed write up but its a good team to lose to if it ends up that way. Chat later mate

Tough Guy is awesome mate. I didn't do it once but twice, that's how much fun it is. I assume you are going with mates, of course, and preferably running in some stupid costume.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I buy most of the tactical arguments, but I don't really buy Le Tissier as part of a standard-ish DM-CM-AM combo. He isn't well suited to be playing any sort of mobile role (making runs into the area and so forth), IMO.

For my money Prime LT is (much) more of a second striker than an attacking midfielder.

 

[diarm]

I buy most of the tactical arguments, but I don't really buy Le Tissier as part of a standard-ish DM-CM-AM combo. He isn't well suited to playing any sort of mobile role (making runs into the area and so forth), IMO.

For my money Prime LT is (much) more of a second striker than an attacking midfielder

I think because of all the goals, people tend to forget how good his passing was and how deep he would come to receive the ball. You said yourself that he wouldn't be making runs into the box which is surely the role of a second striker? The areas he frequented were the spaces between the opponents midfield and their penalty area - 35 yards and in.

i'm not for a second suggesting he was a box to box or would be tracking back to defend, but he was an attacking midfielder in the truest sense of the word and in the space he has been afforded in this game, would cause absolute havoc.

“His talent was out of the norm. He could dribble past seven or eight players but without speed – he just walked past them. For me he was sensational. He was definitely an idol".

 

[diarm]

Unsurprisingly it's tough to find footage of him that isn't all about his wonderful goals, but this pass is a good example of what he could do from the middle of the park.



And just in case anyone wanted reminding of his genius. Here's another little bit of Le Tiss magic!



If he can do that to Schmeichel... imagine what he could do to Friedel!

 

[Chesterlestreet]

You said yourself that he wouldn't be making runs into the box which is surely the role of a second striker?

Usually, perhaps. Not in his case, though. He was a very static player who relied almost exclusively on his ability to manipulate the ball. Le Tissier was an odd player: He was not athletic, not agile, not fast, not mobile. He was one of the best players I've ever seen from an almost...standstill position. He was much more likely to score from 25 yards out than to appear in the box to finish off an attack.

He certainly wasn't an attacking midfielder in the truest sense of the word - not according to my definition of "midfielder" at least. That arrow you have on him seems to imply a degree of mobility he wasn't capable of, IMO. Yes, he occupied the space you indicate, more or less, but he did so in a fundamentally static fashion compared to what you'd normally expect from an AM - and to me it seems like your intention is to sport what I described above: A DM-CM-AM combo.

 

[diarm]

Usually, perhaps. Not in his case, though. He was a very static player who relied almost exclusively on his ability to manipulate the ball. Le Tissier was an odd player: He was not athletic, not agile, not fast, not mobile. He was one of the best players I've ever seen from an almost...standstill position. He was much more likely to score from 25 yards out than to appear in the box to finish off an attack.

He certainly wasn't an attacking midfielder in the truest sense of the word - not according to my definition of "midfielder" at least. That arrow you have on him seems to imply a degree of mobility he wasn't capable of, IMO. Yes, he occupied the space you indicate, more or less, but he did so in a fundamentally static fashion compared to what you'd normally expect from an AM - and to me it seems like your intention is to sport what I described above: A DM-CM-AM combo.

I do understand what you're getting at in that he wasn't running around the field and closing guys down but I do think he was more mobile than you are making out.

I think because much of the footage we see of him is of those wonder goals from standing starts, we can be guilty of thinking that's all he did. But he was great at beating people as well, and scored his fair share of goals from inside the box.

If you have 5 minutes, this is a great video which shows him being much more than static, as well as showing a fair few goals in which he got into the box to finish off an attack.

 

[Moby]

Diarm's plus in this game is the same as last one, clear cut routes to goal that everyone can easily see at the first glance of the team sheet. Beckham --> Van Persie with Bale and Le Tiss behind him is a home run, and now he added Modric who would control the midfield and apply constant pressure on the opposition defense, not to mention his proven chemistry with Bale who were both fantastic together.

 

[Donaldo]

diarm wins acc to me.

 

[Theon]

I like Diarm's team although I'm not convinced on the defence at this stage - I can't see them keeping a clean sheet against Cutch's attack.

Agree with Chester on Le Tissier as well and there's always a chance he'll become a passenger, albeit probably not against Cutch's midfield which is a shade below top quality.

Probably a draw.