All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: QF - Cutch vs diarm

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?

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green_smiley

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vs
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......................................Team Cutch...............................................................................................Team diarm.........................................

TEAM CUTCH

Subs: Gary Neville, Thomas Vermaelen, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink

Formation
Formation reminiscent of the great Arsenal sides under Wenger. Barry performing the Petit role, Essien the Vieira, McManaman roaming from the wing ala Pires, Giggs an upgrade on Overmars, the classy Gudjohnsen performing like Bergkamp and the main man Thierry Henry up top.

Team
In goals, one of the most consistent and renowned goalkeepers of the Premier League Era, and a massive game raising cnut. Brad Friedel.

Roland Nilsson, one of the most unsong hero's of his generation. Swedens second most capped player (116 caps) and cult hero at Sheffield Wednesday in their glory years, alongside his mate, England legend Des Walker (93-95 PL peak), one of the best readers and man markers in the game. Jaap Stamforms a formidable centre half pairing, a man who from 98-01 had as good a peak as any defender in PL history. The jet heeled Gael Clichy (07-09 version) lines up at leftback.

On the flanks Ryan Giggs needs no introduction on the left with the brilliant Steve McManaman on the right in the sort of form that seen him eventually move on to Real Madrid to be one of Britains greatest ever football exports. Gareth Barry, one of the Premier Leagues most consistent servants (4th on the all time appearance list) lines up to the left of the tireless physical monstrosity Michael Essien (05-08), arguably the best all round midfielder in the world in his first 2-3 seasons under Jose Mourinho before injury got the better of him.

Upfront is a slightly underrated genius, Eidur Gudjohnsen alongside arguably the best player in PL history Thierry Henry. Gudjohnsen will offer creativity, deftness of touch and the eye for the pass, while Henry and other off the ball runners will attack at breakneck speed. A multi faceted attack that can score goals from anywhere.
 
TEAM DIARM

Tactics

We have lined up in a deep lying 4-1-4-1 style which in reality becomes a 4-2-3-1 on the counter attack with Beckham and Le Tissier attacking the area around and at the edge of the box, and Bale in a floating role where he can attack the outside or drift in to join Van Persie in attack.

Two highly esteemed, title winning leaders form the heart of our defence. Pallister and Hendry will stay deep, looking to negate the pace of our opponents prime attacker, and be well protected by the tenacity and industry of Batty who will also be instructed to sit deeper, breaking up play and protecting his back 4.

Our great strength lies on the flanks, where the defensive ability, workrate and tactical discipline of all 4 players (Ashley Cole, Rob Jones, David Beckham and Gareth Bale) is surpassed only by their attacking capabilities. We can attack with pace and verve down the left, using Bale as a lethal counter attacking weapon. Alternatively we can use the vision and technical ability of Beckham in his deeper role to find Van Persie pulling off the shoulder of the opposing centre backs.

As if Nilsson and Clichy won't have enough to contend with, in Jones and Cole we have two of the finest overlapping fullbacks in the draft who will gleefully exploit any space on the outside and have the proven ability to deliver consistent and dangerous balls to our attackers.

In case anyone thought the wings were our only source of strength, the opposition will have to contend with both the industry and defensive contribution of Luka Modric, as well as the Croatians guile and technique in collaboration with the masterful Matthew Le Tissier through the middle of the park.

Modric will look to get on the ball quickly in deep positions, building fast attacks from the back by putting his fullbacks or wingers into space or quickly linking with Le Tissier and Beckham in tighter areas. With Le Tissier dropping into the gaps between the oppositions defence and midfield, Beckhams ability to attack wider, advanced areas or come deeper with equal effectiveness, Bales pace and threat on the left and Van Persie's excellent movement up top, Modric will have more options than he can shake a stick at and we all know he has the technical ability to exploit them.


Our Opponent

There are two realistic ways in which Team Cutch can most effectively line up and we have prepared a side ready to take on either of them.

Option 1.
They start Gudjohnsen in the Bergkamp role of an "Arsenal Invincibles" 4-4-1-1 lineup. This is the obvious way to make best use of star player Thierry Henry in his best and most effective position. The problem here is that Gudjohnsen is no Dennis Bergkamp, Essien is no Patrick Viera and Giggs, for all his many attributes, does not have the same ability to sit deep and release Henry with precise through balls that Pires did. In fact, my opponents wide men are far better suited to the more traditional 4-4-2 setup which I will discuss in Option 2.

In this set up, Gudjohnsen will find himself occupying the same areas as David Batty and will struggle with the tenacity and industry of the Newcastle man. With Batty focused on Gudjohnsen, Henry will have to contend with both the physical, abrasive attentions of Hendry and the fast, intelligent reading of Pallister in the box. Essien will provide a threat from deep but Modric provides excellent defensive contribution as well.

Option 2.
Hasselbaink starts alongside Henry in a more tradtional 4-4-2. This would better utilise the strengths of their two wide men, Giggs and McManaman but a wider, more crossing reliant style would undoubtedly take the edge off what made Henry so effective.

In such a system, Barry and Essien would struggle to link with the attack through the middle and I can see Henry becoming frustrated and moving into deeper positions to receive the ball. Again, Batty will occupy these deeper areas and will look to isolate Henry or fall back to assist his centre backs in the box when both Henry and Hasselbaink are more advanced.


Why Team Diarm Will Win.

Midfield
In both systems outlined above, or indeed any other my opponent can name, Team Diarm will boss the midfield. The trio of Batty, Modric and Le Tissier along with the ability of Beckham to operate in deeper areas will create mismatches and numerical advantage in both defence and attack. They could potentially drag Giggs into an attacking midfield role but that was never his most effective position and I would still back Batty, Modric and Le Tissier in their natural roles to dominate himself, Barry and Essien.

Fullbacks
Unfortunately for Team Cutch, the styles and abilities of each of his two fullbacks are better suited to dealing with the winger on the opposite flank. Clichy is blessed with great pace and good tackling ability but will have little chance to use it against a Beckham who rarely needs to beat his man on the outside. Where Clichy falls behind is in his positional awareness and tactical discipline and this will allow Beckham to draw him and put Jones away on the outside. Nilsson on the other hand had wonderful positional awareness but was not blessed with great pace. A fine old school right back but he will really struggle with the quickness and directness of both Bale and Cole attacking his flank.

No Weak Links
While it may not be a team full of superstar names, Team Diarm has no obvious weak links. A keeper in the top 3 of premier league history, a solid centre back pairing in the age old "stopper/ball player" combination. A hungry and effective shield in defensive midfield. Fullbacks equally at home in defence and attack, 2 very different but truly world class attacking wide men and 3 players with outstanding movement, technical ability and guile through the middle of our attack.

My opponent has a couple of real superstars but also a number of real weaknesses at this level. Gudjohnsen and Hasselbaink were great in that Chelsea partnership for Round 1 but do not belong in this company, particularly when separated. Des Walkers best years were certainly not in the Premier League and Barry, Friedel and Clichy, while fine players, look severely out of their depth.

I feel our opponent has the outstanding defender on the pitch in Stam, but Team Diarm has the more cohesive and reliable defence. Similarly while Team Cutch has the stand out attacker in Henry, we have the more cohesive attack against a side who seem to have wingers for one system, and strikers for another.

Our side has been carefully built with balance and variation key. As such, we have the options to attack with pace or patience, out wide or through the middle. Finally, in Van Persie, Modric, Bale, Beckham and Le God, we have a wealth of players capable of producing something magnificent from nothing.
 
Team Diarm - Player Profiles

David Seaman (GK)
Arsenal 1992-2003
3 Premier League Titles, 4 FA Cups, 1 League Cup, 1 UEFA Cup Winners Cup.
1 x PFA Team of the Year, EURO 96 Team of the Tournament.
142 clean sheets in 344 Premier League games. 40 clean sheets in 75 International caps.

A rock at the heart of a successful Arsenal side for over a decade and a goalkeeper they have taken more than a decade to replace, Seaman is easily the best English keeper to play in the Premiership.

Along with superb positional sense, strong reflexes and a great aerial presence, Seaman was a real presence at the back of a strong Arsenal defence, a brilliant manager of his defenders and a keeper who any attacker would rather play with than against.


Rob Jones (RB)
Liverpool 1992-1999
1 x PFA Team of the Year
155 Premier League games and 8 International caps.

One of the finest Liverpool defenders of the Premier League era, Jones’ career at international level in particular, was unfortunately cut short by injury.

Blessed with good pace and a fantastic cross, Jones was highly effective in bombing down the right flank and delivering goal scoring opportunities from wide areas.

His best attributes were always in defence however. Strong in the tackle and with the mobility to keep pace with tricky wingers, Jones was famous for marshalling some of the leagues most famous attackers. At his peak, during the 1994-95 season, Jones was as good a fullback as any in Europe.


Colin Hendry (CB)
Blackburn Rovers 1992-1998
Premier League Title 1995
2 x PFA Team of the Year
8 goals in 203 Premier League appearances. 3 goals in 53 International caps.

An old fashioned, “hard as nails” centre back who owned his penalty area during his time at Blackburn in the mid 90’s.

Tough and uncompromising on the floor, it was in the air where Hendry made his mark as undoubtedly one of the strongest aerial defenders the Premiership has ever seen.

Along with Flowers, Sherwood and SAS, Hendry was a true leader and key member of Blackburn’s title winning side in 1995. A beast of a man, impossible to bully and able to strike fear in the heart of attackers everywhere.


Gary Pallister (CB)
Manchester United 1992-1998
4 Premier League Titles, 3 FA Cups, 1 League Cup,
5 x PFA Team of the Year, 1 x PFA Players Player of the Year
8 goals in 207 Premier League appearances. 22 International caps.

One of the most decorated Centre Backs of all time, Pallister made up half of maybe the Premier Leagues greatest ever defensive partnership.

Blessed with pace, agility, intelligence and great technical astuteness, Pallister was the perfect foil to the traditional, uncompromising defender. His physical ability, along with a keen awareness of the game, allowed him to cover his more abrasive partner, mopping up attacks before they began and negating the threat of the quick forward.

Aside from his wonderful defensive capabilities, Pallister had an uncanny knack for scoring goals at crucial moments including cup semi-finals and title-deciding show downs.


Ashley Cole (LB)
Chelsea 2006-2014
3 Premier League Titles, 7 FA Cups, 1 League Cup, 1 Champions League and 1 Europa League
4 x PFA Team of the Year
2 x UEFA Team of the Year, UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament 2004, England Player of the Year 2010

Arguably Englands greatest ever Left Back and right up there with Irwin as the best of the Prem era, Cole was the best in the world for a while during his peak at Chelsea. Fast, strong and with great positional and tactical awareness, Cole was one of the very few fullbacks capable of going toe to toe with Cristiano Ronaldo in full flight.

As good as he was defensively, Cole was possibly even better in attack. His pace and ability on the ball allowed him to contribute to the attack as a real force, cutting into the box or overlapping wide to deliver great crosses.

During his 8 seasons at Stamford Bridge, Cole was a star player in a side that won the Premier League, 4 FA Cups, a UEFA Cup and a Champions League.
 
Team Diarm - Player Profiles

David Batty (DM)
Newcastle United 1996-1998
1 Premier League Title,
3 x PFA Team of the year
3 goals in 83 Premier League appearances. 42 International caps.

David Batty arrived in Newcastle already boasting an impressive record at Leeds United, as well as a Premier League title and place on the PFA Team of the Year with Blackburn.

It was on Tyneside however that Batty reached his peak, twice being named on the Team of the Year and trusted by Kevin Keegan as his midfield general in a side that came within a whisker of Premier League glory.

One of the best holding midfielders ever to grace the Premier League, Batty’s tireless work rate, tenacious tackling and selfless, efficient use of the ball provided the rock on which Newcastle’s more glamourous footballers built their attacks.


Luka Modrić (CM)
Tottenham Hotspur 2008-2012
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament 2008

The little Genius! A complete central midfielder, Modric is a thorn in any sides attack with his high workrate and gritty defensive attributes. It is in attack that the diminutive Croatian shines brightest though. One of the most creative central midfielders the Premier League has ever seen, Modric possesses wonderful technical ability and fabulous vision.

Able to pass the ball quickly, accurately and intelligently over both small and long distances, he is the perfect middleman to unleash the full potential of a wide man like Bale and the movement of Van Persie up front. The idea of watching himself, Beckham and Le Tissier link up in the opponents half is mouth watering.


David Beckham (RW).
Manchester United 1992-2003
6 Premier League Titles, 2 Fa Cups, 1 Champions League
4 x PFA Team of the Year, Premier League Team of the Decade, Premier League Goal of the Decade
1 x UEFA Team of the Year, 1 x UEFA Club Footballer of the Year, 1 x FWA Tribute Award
1 x Ballon D’Or - 2nd Place, 2 x Fifa World Player of the Year - 2nd Place, 1 x England Player of the Year

Quite simply, the greatest right sided midfielder in Premier League history.

Beckham was the poster boy for the class of 92, a gifted footballer with one of the greatest deliveries of any player ever. Hard working in midfield and along the entire right flank, Beckham was a team player with an extraordinary gift for long range passing, for crossing and for set pieces.

Beckham occupied a role deeper, and more withdrawn than the modern winger. He was an integral part of the midfield rather than an out and out wide man, often choosing to use his brilliant ball striking technique and vision to beat his opponent rather needing to round him.

He linked the central midfield to the attack with quick and accurate short passing and was well able to beat a man on the outside, or put his overlapping fullback away when he needed to. In short, Beckham was one of the key individuals in a United team that won everything in club football and one of the great England players of his generation.


Gareth Bale (LW)
Tottenham Hotspurs 2007-2013
3 x PFA Team of the Year, 2 x PFA Players Player of the Year
2 x UEFA Team of the Year, 1 x FWA Player of the Year
42 goals in 146 Premier League appearances. 17 goals in 50 International caps.

The most expensive footballer of all time.

In 2013, Real Madrid paid £85.3 million for a player who had terrorised Premier League (as well as European) right backs for the previous 3 seasons following his progression from defender to attacker.

Player of the Year in 2011, Bale hit his undoubted peak in 2012/13, again picking up the award and registering 21 goals and 9 assists from midfield as Manchester United and Real Madrid circled in pursuit of his signature.

An impeccable athlete, Bale adds great skill and agility to his blistering pace and on several occasions towards the end of his spell in a Spurs shirt, was a simply unplayable force.


Matt Le Tissier (AM)
Southampton 1992-2002
1 x PFA Team of the Year, Multiple Goal of the Month/Season Nominations and Wins.
101 goals in 270 Premier League appearances. 8 International caps.

The first midfielder to score 100 Premier League goals and one of the greatest penalty kick takers of all time, “Le God” as he was known to the Southampton faithful, was so much more than the statistics or indeed, international records show.

A player of immense technical ability, Le Tissier is a footballer that still invokes fond images in the memory of any Premier League fan over the age of 25. A devious and wonderful passer of the ball, Le Tissier could and often did, score incredible goals from anywhere he wanted to.

As a young United fan growing up in the 90’s, staying up for Match of the Day on a Saturday evening was 60% about watching United and 40% looking forward to seeing Le Tissier’s contribution to this weeks Goal of the Month selection! A true Premiership legend.


Robin Van Persie (CF)
Arsenal 2004-2012
1 Premier League, 1 FA Cup, 1 UEFA Cup
1 x PFA Players Player of the Year, 1 x PFA Fans Player of the Year
1 x FWA Player of the Year, 1 x ESM Team of the Year, 1 x Premier League Golden Boot
96 goals in 194 Premier League appearances. 49 goals in 98 International caps.

Van Persie was signed by Arsenal in 2004 to replace the great Thierry Henry. His earlier career at the club was disrupted by injury but towards the end of his time in London, he had become the complete forward.

Smart, powerful and with an ability to create and score goals from nothing, Van Persie was every defender’s worst nightmare. Most at home on the shoulder of bamboozled centre backs, RVP was blessed with an impeccable first touch, quick feet and pure finishing ability.

During his final season at Arsenal (and his undoubted peak), Van Persie was the leagues best player by a distance, scoring 30 league goals and adding 14 assists as he paved the way for a move to Manchester United where he would go on to play a large part in winning his first, and Sir Alex Ferguson’s final Premier League title.
Stig Inge Bjørnebye (LB)
Liverpool 1992-2000
1 League Cup
1 x PFA Team of the Year
2 goals in 119 Premier League appearances. 1 goal in 76 International caps.

Another Liverpool fullback with a talent for overlapping on the flank and swinging in accurate and consistent crosses, Bjørnebye had one of the sweetest left foot strikes in the league.

Solid and effective in defence, the Norwegian wide man peaked under the management of Roy Evans, making the PFA Team of the Year for his fine performances in 1996/97 and the notable number of chances he created for Stan Collymore and Robbie Fowler from his exploits down the left hand side.


Tim Sherwood (CM)
Blackburn Rovers 1992-1999
1 Premier League Title
1 x PFA Team of the Year
24 goals in 235 Premier League appearances. 3 International caps.

Captain of the 1995, title winning Blackburn side, Sherwood was a real leader by example on the field. A combative and no nonsense footballer, he bossed the midfield with hard tackling, determined pressing of his opponents and a keen sense of position and anticipation.

Economical but intelligent with the ball, Sherwood was so effective at Blackburn that owner Jack Walker famously rejected the opportunity to sign Zinedine Zidane.


Paolo Di Canio (SS)
West Ham United
1 x UEFA Intertoto Cup
Goal of the Season 1999/00
48 goals in 118 Premier League Appearances.

At times tempestuous and controversial, Di Canio was above all, a gifted footballer.

Scorer of one of the finest goals in Premier League history, the fiery Italian was capable of mixing outrageous technique and vision with a strong and aggressive attacking presence. Great technical skill and a fine goal scoring record helped Di Canio go down in the history books as a thorn in the side of his opponents but a real Hammers hero.
 
Beckham is the perfect partner for Van Persie's runs.
 
Cutch said:
There's only Van Persie up top to get on the end of them, Le Tiss won't be busting a gut, and so i'd fancy our chances
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Yeah, that's true, a lot depends on Van Persie's work in the box, it's funny though how Stam is surrounded by complete midgets with Walker barely being 6 feet and the others well below that, he'll be a bit amused at kick off for sure. Just something that strikes to me specially against a team that's gonna be pumping it into the box loads.
 
harms said:
Beckham is the perfect partner for Van Persie's runs.
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Yeah it's one of my favourite parts of this team.




I can't think of a better supplier of that sort of ball than Beckham and then you have Le Tiss and Modric who are amazing passers as well. Stam and Walker will have their work cut out stopping Van Persie but the problem for them is that Le Tissier is also going to be coming away from the box to receive the ball. There is nobody in the defensive midfield area who is going to stop him doing this:

[URL=http://makegif.com/gYXP][/URL]
 
green_smiley said:
Option 1.
They start Gudjohnsen in the Bergkamp role of an "Arsenal Invincibles" 4-4-1-1 lineup. This is the obvious way to make best use of star player Thierry Henry in his best and most effective position. The problem here is that Gudjohnsen is no Dennis Bergkamp, Essien is no Patrick Viera and Giggs, for all his many attributes, does not have the same ability to sit deep and release Henry with precise through balls that Pires did. In fact, my opponents wide men are far better suited to the more traditional 4-4-2 setup which I will discuss in Option 2.

In this set up, Gudjohnsen will find himself occupying the same areas as David Batty and will struggle with the tenacity and industry of the Newcastle man. With Batty focused on Gudjohnsen, Henry will have to contend with both the physical, abrasive attentions of Hendry and the fast, intelligent reading of Pallister in the box. Essien will provide a threat from deep but Modric provides excellent defensive contribution as well..
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You can see from my write up that we were prepared for what I called "Option 1". This was the formation to get the best from Henry no doubt. The problem is that Giggs and McManaman really aren't suited to this style at all. Who is going to sit deep and provide Henry with the type of ball Pires did? Can Gareth Barry and Essien replicate what Petit and Viera did? Especially up against a 3 man midfield with Beckham supporting as well?

And then you have Gudjohnsen. A fine player but not in the same league as Dennis Bergkamp and will have his hands very full with David Batty.

I see Giggs and McManaman doing what comes naturally, marauding the flanks and providing good delivery from wide areas. But this doesn't suit the forwards Cutch has at all and we have two very good fullbacks.
 
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Really even this, both tactically and in terms of areas of strength and weakness.
 
diarm said:
You can see from my write up that we were prepared for what I called "Option 1". This was the formation to get the best from Henry no doubt. The problem is that Giggs and McManaman really aren't suited to this style at all. Who is going to sit deep and provide Henry with the type of ball Pires did? Can Gareth Barry and Essien replicate what Petit and Viera did? Especially up against a 3 man midfield with Beckham supporting as well?

And then you have Gudjohnson. A fine player but not in the same league as Dennis Bergkamp and will have his hands very full with David Batty.

I see Giggs and McManaman doing what comes naturally, marauding the flanks and providing good delivery from wide areas. But this doesn't suit the forwards Cutch has at all and we have two very good fullbacks.
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McManaman is a very roaming winger, you're making him sound like Antonio Valencia. The players he fitted in seamlessly with at Real Madrid tell you how versatile and adaptable an attacking player he is. He could very much have a Pires type role in this team and the link up with Gudjohnsen and the direct running from Giggs on the other side gives Henry the perfect supporting cast.
 
Aldo said:
Yeah, that's true, a lot depends on Van Persie's work in the box, it's funny though how Stam is surrounded by complete midgets with Walker barely being 6 feet and the others well below that, he'll be a bit amused at kick off for sure. Just something that strikes to me specially against a team that's gonna be pumping it into the box loads.
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I'd be happy enough if their game resorted to pumping it into the box loads. Stams gonna gobble all that up. Van Persies decent at getting on the end of things but he's not the presence of say a Drogba
 
Cutch said:
I'd be happy enough if their game resorted to pumping it into the box loads. Stams gonna gobble all that up. Van Persies decent at getting on the end of things but he's not the presence of say a Drogba
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Van Persie has a different skill set to Drgoba for sure, but in terms of movement, finding space off the shoulder of the defender and latching onto balls over the top, he was stronger than Drogba and as good as anyone in Prem history.

The idea that Modric, Le Tissier and particularly Beckham will be "pumping" balls anywhere is wrong. Modric and Beckham are capable of landing long range passes on a sixpence and will put it exactly where they want to. You'll also have forward runs from Modric, through balls and trickery from Le Tissier, overlapping runs from Cole and Jones as well as the vicious threat from Gareth Bale down the left.

My team has plenty of options in attack.
 
Cutch said:
McManaman is a very roaming winger, you're making him sound like Antonio Valencia. The players he fitted in seamlessly with at Real Madrid tell you how versatile and adaptable an attacking player he is. He could very much have a Pires type role in this team and the link up with Gudjohnsen and the direct running from Giggs on the other side gives Henry the perfect supporting cast.
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Thing you would have been better off with someone like Mcmanaman on the left and Giggs on the right
 
Cutch said:
McManaman is a very roaming winger, you're making him sound like Antonio Valencia. The players he fitted in seamlessly with at Real Madrid tell you how versatile and adaptable an attacking player he is. He could very much have a Pires type role in this team and the link up with Gudjohnsen and the direct running from Giggs on the other side gives Henry the perfect supporting cast.
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I do agree that McManaman was a great roaming winger and will attack the box as well as the flank. He was a cracking player.
But I don't agree that he could provide the Pires role. I don't think he had the range or vision of passing to do that.

I really think your side will struggle to give Henry the type of service he thrives under.
 
diarm said:
Van Persie has a different skill set to Drgoba for sure, but in terms of movement, finding space off the shoulder of the defender and latching onto balls over the top, he was stronger than Drogba and as good as anyone in Prem history.

The idea that Modric, Le Tissier and particularly Beckham will be "pumping" balls anywhere is wrong. Modric and Beckham are capable of landing long range passes on a sixpence and will put it exactly where they want to. You'll also have forward runs from Modric, through balls and trickery from Le Tissier, overlapping runs from Cole and Jones as well as the vicious threat from Gareth Bale down the left.

My team has plenty of options in attack.
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I agree you have plenty in attack as does my team. I do think you're overrating Le Tissier and underrating Gudjohnsen though. Le Tiss is a PL legend but still a bit of an enigma. Gudjohnsen was a fantastic talent and lets not forget ended up playing for arguably the best club side in the world on the back of his performances for Chelsea.
 
Nice pair of teams this, both largely playing the same tactics. Observations:
  • I like Nilsson, but Bale in a dedicated high role could cause him some trouble.
  • Henry's electric pace is likely good for a goal against Hendry/Pallister.
  • That same pace won't be so effective out wide where Jones and Cole largely match him for speed and on the cover.
  • Gudjohnsen and Barry look a wee bit underwhelming here to the point where I can see Batty getting a hold on Eidur and Le Tissier causing havoc for Gareth.
 
Cutch said:
I agree you have plenty in attack as does my team. I do think you're overrating Le Tissier and underrating Gudjohnsen though. Le Tiss is a PL legend but still a bit of an enigma. Gudjohnsen was a fantastic talent and lets not forget ended up playing for arguably the best club side in the world on the back of his performances for Chelsea.
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I rate Gudjohnsen really highly, just a long way below Bergkamp who you need him to emulate here.
I also rate Le Tissier very highly. The man was a genius and you have nobody really to deal with him.

One more point on the McManaman thing, if you put your Pires on the right, you are taking away the quintessential Thierry Henry goal.
Pires through ball into the box on the left hand side, Henry opens his body and slots it right footed across the keeper and into the bottom right hand corner.
 
Gio said:
Nice pair of teams this, both largely playing the same tactics. Observations:
  • I like Nilsson, but Bale in a dedicated high role could cause him some trouble.
  • Henry's electric pace is likely good for a goal against Hendry/Pallister.
  • That same pace won't be so effective out wide where Jones and Cole largely match him for speed and on the cover.
  • Gudjohnsen and Barry look a wee bit underwhelming here to the point where I can see Batty getting a hold on Eidur and Le Tissier causing havoc for Gareth.
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Yes.. very even match up but the full backs bit decided my vote in the end as did the fact that I don't rate Eidur as highly as Cutch
 
Maybe it is just me but I don't see Henry and Giggs combining that well. Latter day Giggs may be but not the peak one who would want to be the one dribbling past on that left channel. Combo of Cole and Pires allowed Henry to dominate that left flank while both took supporting roles in the sense that they complemented whatever Henry wanted to do. It allowed Henry to be the one who would move out wide and take on players.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I rate Pires higher, but there's nothing wrong with McManaman in that role. His liverpool form in first half of 90's was really good. Can score and regularly assists others.
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Oh I rate him as a winger, he was brilliant. I mean in the very specific Pires role of sitting deep and unleashing Henry with precise and well weighted through balls.
McManamans first instinct was very much to take the player on. He ran with the ball, often even with great passing options available.

 
Just give this a bump to make sure people can see!
 
Modric will surely find Van Persie as well at some point, but Cutch's defence is really ready for the challenge. On the other hand I'm not sure how well will Jones-Beckham do against Clichy-Giggs who are both faster than their counterpart. Henry will find his way to a few of Giggs' through balls surely at least once, and probably more. I also think Henry drifting left and pressurising that side is the perfect way to make diarm's reinforcement of Cole less valuable at this match.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Modric will surely find Van Persie as well at some point, but Cutch's defence is really ready for the challenge. On the other hand I'm not sure how well will Jones-Beckham do against Clichy-Giggs who are both faster than their counterpart. Henry will find his way to a few of Giggs' through balls surely at least once, and probably more. I also think Henry drifting left and pressurising that side is the perfect way to make diarm's reinforcement of Cole less valuable at this match.
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I think you're slightly overrating Clichy and slightly underrating Jones again. Bear in mind that a deep lying defence with Batty in defensive mode and Beckham more withdrawn, negates a lot of the damage they can do with their admittedly impressive pace.

Henry is the primary goal threat for them so if he is forced to drift left to find the ball I'll be very happy.
 
diarm said:
You can see from my write up that we were prepared for what I called "Option 1". This was the formation to get the best from Henry no doubt. The problem is that Giggs and McManaman really aren't suited to this style at all. Who is going to sit deep and provide Henry with the type of ball Pires did? Can Gareth Barry and Essien replicate what Petit and Viera did? Especially up against a 3 man midfield with Beckham supporting as well?

And then you have Gudjohnsen. A fine player but not in the same league as Dennis Bergkamp and will have his hands very full with David Batty.

I see Giggs and McManaman doing what comes naturally, marauding the flanks and providing good delivery from wide areas. But this doesn't suit the forwards Cutch has at all and we have two very good fullbacks.
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A good point, to be fair.
 
Oh boy.. 13-6.. did not see this coming.. actually thought Cutch would have the edge here voting wise.
 
Voted @diarm but in reality I think it would be close, maybe even a win for @Cutch.

Modric would control that midfield and completely dictate the tempo along with Beckham and Le Tissier, but the counter attacking pace of Giggs, McManaman and Henry is frightening.

I just think in this scenario, @diarm has more match winners, and a screamer from Le Tiss settles the tie.
 
People seem to be buying in to this notion that Giggs is somehow hindering Thierry Henry. We're used to seeing Henry doing a lot of brilliant work coming from the inside left channel, but we're talking about one of the most multi faceted attackers in the game and the best player on this pitch. You's can't seriously tell me Henry through the middle in peak form playing off the shoulder of Colin Hendry being fed eye of the needle balls from Giggs and Gudjohnsen isn't going to benefit?

Diarm has a tidy team no doubt but much like my opponent in the last round it is one paced. Gareth Bale is the only man able to inject pace in that side. Peak Van Persie, Beckham, Le Tiss, Modric....all slow. I've got serious pace in the form of Clichy, Giggs, McManaman and Henry and the raw power of the tireless Michael Essien. As much as i rate Modric now he never reached the level in the Premier League of Essien who carried his Lyon form into the Chelsea team in epic fashion. Whatever way the numbers in midfield are portrayed Essien would nearly do the work of 3 men, especially if we're counting Matt Le Tissier. Who'd standing up to him physically? Luka Modric? It won't be Batty if he's tasked with shackling Gudjohnsen.



The way i see it is i've got 3 standout players down the middle of the pitch. In Jaap Stam i have a near one man defence who even without a partner i would fancy against any forward he'd come up against. In Michael Essien i have an undoubted world class peak premier league performer playing football at that time that whisper it quietly might arguably have surpassed even Keane and Vieira, against a fairly lightweight one paced midfield. Upfront Thierry Henry that i've already mentioned.

Other than that its about getting the right supporting cast and i've got no doubt the likes of experienced international performers of the highest level such as Roland Nilsson and Des Walker would greatly benefit any defence. Selfless consistent Pl performers like Gareth Barry will do a job in tandem with Essien, and a gifted skillful creative attacker like Gudjohnsen could play in any great side as could obviously McManaman and Giggs as they have long proven.
 
Cutch said:
People seem to be buying in to this notion that Giggs is somehow hindering Thierry Henry. We're used to seeing Henry doing a lot of brilliant work coming from the inside left channel, but we're talking about one of the most multi faceted attackers in the game and the best player on this pitch. You's can't seriously tell me Henry through the middle in peak form playing off the shoulder of Colin Hendry being fed eye of the needle balls from Giggs and Gudjohnsen isn't going to benefit?
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Giggs and Henry are wonderful players no doubt. It's just that to truly shine in a side with relative weaknesses in Clichy, Walker, Barry and Gudjohnsen, you would want them playing in the systems that saw the best from them. I'm not saying both won't still be dangerous, just that playing together and without the players around them they had at peak, their threat will be lessened.

Cutch said:
Diarm has a tidy team no doubt but much like my opponent in the last round it is one paced. Gareth Bale is the only man able to inject pace in that side. Peak Van Persie, Beckham, Le Tiss, Modric....all slow. I've got serious pace in the form of Clichy, Giggs, McManaman and Henry and the raw power of the tireless Michael Essien.
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Van Persie may not be the fastest man on a field but he has consistently outmaneuvered defenders throughout his career. His quickness of thought and movement off the shoulder more than makes up for a lack of outright speed. Remember this is a man who scored 30 league goals in his best season. Even your Thierry Henry can't beat that.

Neither Beckham nor Le Tissier ever needed speed to beat a man. Often, neither needed to beat him at all. With no defensive midfielder and a defence that will be too occupied with balls over the top to move out to counter him, who is going to deal with Le Tissier?

Bale brings more pace with the ball at his feet than anyone in your side, and against one of the slower players on the pitch in Nilsson. Alongside him and outside Beckham on the other side, both Cole and Jones have pace to burn. One paced is the last term I'd use to describe my side.

Cutch said:
As much as i rate Modric now he never reached the level in the Premier League of Essien who carried his Lyon form into the Chelsea team in epic fashion. Whatever way the numbers in midfield are portrayed Essien would nearly do the work of 3 men, especially if we're counting Matt Le Tissier. Who'd standing up to him physically? Luka Modric? It won't be Batty if he's tasked with shackling Gudjohnsen.
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Essien was a great player and it's nice to think he could do the work of 3 men, but it doesn't work like that. In reality I have 3 men in my midfield and you have 2. One of whom is Gareth Barry. The ball will do the work and Essien will be too busy chasing shadows to worry about physically overpowering anyone.

Cutch said:
The way i see it is i've got 3 standout players down the middle of the pitch. In Jaap Stam i have a near one man defence who even without a partner i would fancy against any forward he'd come up against. In Michael Essien i have an undoubted world class peak premier league performer playing football at that time that whisper it quietly might arguably have surpassed even Keane and Vieira, against a fairly lightweight one paced midfield. Upfront Thierry Henry that i've already mentioned.
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Again, it would be nice to think Stam could operate as a one man defence but there's a reason no coach ever employed him as such. In this game Van Persie is going to target Walker and look to expose him time and time again.

I've said Essien was good. He was, but he never reached the heights of Viera or Keane. No way.
 
Giggs and Henry are wonderful players no doubt. It's just that to truly shine in a side with relative weaknesses in Clichy, Walker, Barry and Gudjohnsen, you would want them playing in the systems that saw the best from them. I'm not saying both won't still be dangerous, just that playing together and without the players around them they had at peak, their threat will be lessened.
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You rarely get a team of 11 worldbeaters, you always need a few selfless team players to make the thing work and those aforementioned are certainly 100% no weaker than the likes of Colin Hendry, Rob Jones and David Batty.


Van Persie may not be the fastest man on a field but he has consistently outmaneuvered defenders throughout his career. His quickness of thought and movement off the shoulder more than makes up for a lack of outright speed. Remember this is a man who scored 30 league goals in his best season. Even your Thierry Henry can't beat that.
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Still, i dont think any one in their right mind would claim Van Persie at Arsenal > Henry at Arsenal

Neither Beckham nor Le Tissier ever needed speed to beat a man. Often, neither needed to beat him at all. With no defensive midfielder and a defence that will be too occupied with balls over the top to move out to counter him, who is going to deal with Le Tissier?
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Le Tissier will be dealt with the same way any good 4-4-2 team operates. Petit-Vieira, Scholes-Keane, none of those were what you'd call specialist holding midfielders but it didn't mean they were lost when they came up against someone in Le Tiss' position. You'll see from my graphic that Barry will be pretty close, and the nature of Essiens game is you'll see him here there and everywhere. Certainly not worth sacrificin a man for.

Bale brings more pace with the ball at his feet than anyone in your side, and against one of the slower players on the pitch in Nilsson. Alongside him and outside Beckham on the other side, both Cole and Jones have pace to burn. One paced is the last term I'd use to describe my side.
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Of the 2 welsh wizards, again i dont think anyone would say that your man Bale has surpassed Ryan Giggs in the PL, and he really is your only ball carrying outlet while i have 3. When comparing pace and power of the respective sides theres only one winner.

Essien was a great player and it's nice to think he could do the work of 3 men, but it doesn't work like that. In reality I have 3 men in my midfield and you have 2. One of whom is Gareth Barry. The ball will do the work and Essien will be too busy chasing shadows to worry about physically overpowering anyone.
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I jest but its the numbers game again that everyone likes to play. You have Batty assigned to Eider Gudjohnsen but Batty features in this midfield equation but Gudjohnsen doesn't. Then when you comparing the workrate of Essien to the likes of Le Tissier i don't think theres any way my midfield is gonna be overwhelmed.

Again, it would be nice to think Stam could operate as a one man defence but there's a reason no coach ever employed him as such. In this game Van Persie is going to target Walker and look to expose him time and time again.
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And again i jest but its just aswell i dont need Stam to be a one man defence when i have a player of the calibre of Walker who has been there done that. Someone who has lost a yard by this time but thats a yard off one of the quickest players in the game at the time, and one still well able to keep up with Robin Van Persie.

I've said Essien was good. He was, but he never reached the heights of Viera or Keane. No way.
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I genuinely believe for 2-3 years he was as good as anything we've seen in the PL. Vieira and Keane were better leaders and did it for far longer but no one covered more ground and was as physically imposing as Essien. He was the best all round midfielder in the world at this time and would have walked into any World 11.
 
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