All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: Final - MJJ/Crappy vs Skizzo/Pat | Skizzo/Pat win!

[antohan]

Uh, I like the Ginola-Overmars wing swap, didn't see that one coming. Older Scholes was a no-brainer.

At the other end, I'm baffled as to why Skizzopat played the 4-4-2 here, this game called for a 4-3-3 with Silva at the tip of the midfield trio.

 

[Annahnomoss]

so many defenders who don't deserve being in a final - Ivanovic, Southgate, Bridge, Desailly (in the Premier League).

And Shay Given vs Joe Hart

Like discussed earlier, is there actually any evidence that Desailly played a full season or more as a centre back for Milan? If not, however you rate Desailly as a centre back - that must surely be the level from his 96-98-00 performances for France and his time in Chelsea where he was part of the team of the decade. Honest question, I've been trying to find evidence myself of Desailly being a first team centre back for Milan and through the seasons I looked at 96-98 I kept finding him listed and played as a midfielder.

@Gio Would love to be educated on it, it is a very interesting point that has been brought up.

 

[MJJ]

Uh, I like the Ginola-Overmars wing swap, didn't see that one coming. Older Scholes was a no-brainer.

At the other end, I'm baffled as to why Skizzopat played the 4-4-2 here, this game called for a 4-3-3 with Silva at the tip of the midfield trio.

As I said before its more a 4-2-2-2 than a typical 4-4-2. Neither of his winger will defend much and play more like a winger does in a 4-3-3. Hugely imbalances his side imo.

@Mani @Varun another point to add onto my last one, in every side where the front three interchange greatly and lack workrate as this one does there is always one player who will make up for it and be positionally sound (park ji sung, hargreaves) in our incarnation of tevez,ronaldo and rooney. Who is going to be that player here? As mentioned before both vieira and xabi played with a dedicated DM, none of his front four are renown for their work rate. Its a very top heavy set-up that wont work very well.

Who is going to play the selfless role of rooney,tevez or fernando, fernandinho, milner (if you want to talk man city) here? Cover for when either of his four players move out of position?

Having silva and ronaldo on the flanks with weaker fullbacks is suicide against a side with world class fullbacks and a master midfielder who can keep picking them day in day out.

 

[MJJ]

Whereas other systems thrive because they naturally create triangles, the 4-4-2 is essentially comprised of five solid partnerships. Manchester United's 1998-99 treble-winning side is the best example of a team of partnerships which maximised the abilities of the players. Strikers Dwight Yorke and Andy Cole, for example, were good players individually, but great as a partnership.

Manchester City have struggled to build these reliable partnerships, partly because they've neglected the concept of the "enabler," the player who doesn't shine individually but allows his partner, and sometimes others, to play to their full potential. This has been a problem in almost every department of the side, and is one of the main reasons their system is so easily exposed.

If it's two banks of four behind the strikers, however, you need great discipline. The problem, though, is that the two other two key players, Toure and Silva, depend upon vacating their natural position regularly. Therefore, they need responsible covering players alongside them.

City's wide midfielders always drifted inside under Mancini, who disliked natural wingers, and therefore, they often found themselves acting as a partnership in something of a 4-2-2-2. Silva is a brilliant playmaker, but he always drifts into central positions and rarely recovers his defensive position quickly. There was a good example at Anfield, where he stayed down feigning injury for a prolonged period. This means that Nasri, while a talented all-round attacking player, isn't the ideal player to start on the opposite flanks -- he's too similar to Silva.

The excellent Micheal Cox points out a few weaknesses of city's 4-2-2-2. A system akin to what pat and skizzo are using here. The bolded points are the one I have been stressing since the game began, while skizpat have an excellent team the balance is simply wrong and they really dont have anyone with the work rate to make it work. In a 4-4-2 anyway.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/tactics-...blems-are-caused-by-their-players-not-tactics

 

[Kazi]

Skizzo's front six is close to the Premier League's greatest foreign front six ever

 

[sajeev]

Ivanovic has been the best Rb in the premier league(with zabaleta as his competition) over the past seven, eight years. How does he not deserve to start?

so you have watched him play over the last so many years and have decided that. that's cool with me but he is basically a centre-back who wasn't good enough but managed because of his physical attributes, which help in the league.

the fact that you selected him as a right-back in a 'fantasy draft' means that we will never agree on this matter.

btw i am leaning towards your team and given may not be a disadvantage this time

 

[antohan]

Like discussed earlier, is there actually any evidence that Desailly played a full season or more as a centre back for Milan? If not, however you rate Desailly as a centre back - that must surely be the level from his 96-98-00 performances for France and his time in Chelsea where he was part of the team of the decade. Honest question, I've been trying to find evidence myself of Desailly being a first team centre back for Milan and through the seasons I looked at 96-98 I kept finding him listed and played as a midfielder.

@Gio Would love to be educated on it, it is a very interesting point that has been brought up.

I don't think he did with any sort of regularity. It was certainly surprising/interesting seeing how France played him at CB and not DM so I would rule out the first Capello period, also the Tabárez/Sacchi period out of pure logic (they still had Baresi). It is only 1997-98 when Capello returned that he may have been deployed there, but certainly not with great success as otherwise they surely wouldn't have sold him.

Basically, CB Desailly at club level is Chelsea's Desailly, no two ways about it.

 

[MJJ]

so you have watched him play over the last so many years and have decided that. that's cool with me but he is basically a centre-back who wasn't good enough but managed because of his physical attributes, which help in the league.

the fact that you selected him as a right-back in a 'fantasy draft' means that we will never agree on this matter.

btw i am leaning towards your team and given may not be a disadvantage this time

You have to say he is as comfortable at right back as at centre back? He has played more games as a RB than a CB in his team at chelsea from what I remember. And is against silva here who will drift inside which helps us even more as he can play as a RCB when needed rather than if he was against a winger who would overlap and stretch the play.

 

[MJJ]

Skizzo's front six is close to the Premier League's greatest foreign front six ever

On paper yes. Wont work out well in an actual match. All of his midfielders are used to playing with a player who did the dirty work for them. Vieira-Petit, Alonso-Mascherano, Ronaldo-Park/Tevez/Rooney/Hargreaves, Silva-Milner, Fernando, Fernandinho.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

The excellent Micheal Cox points out a few weaknesses of city's 4-2-2-2. A system akin to what pat and skizzo are using here. The bolded points are the one I have been stressing since the game began, while skizpat have an excellent team the balance is simply wrong and they really dont have anyone with the work rate to make it work. In a 4-4-2 anyway.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/tactics-...blems-are-caused-by-their-players-not-tactics

That's a strange point to make given that you're playing a 4-4-2 as well and in Ginola have probably the laziest winger on the pitch. I'd take Silva's defensive contributions over Overmars any day as well - you don't get into that Spain team without being willing to put the work in when you don't have possession. Suarez is the hardest working forward on the pitch and he'll bring much of the defensive qualities that Tevez did to that Utd team. Insofar as any of our attacking trio will be sacrificing themselves for the team it'll be him, and he's demonstrated that he can do so without blunting his attacking contribution.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

You have to say he is as comfortable at right back as at centre back? He has played more games as a RB than a CB in his team at chelsea from what I remember. And is against silva here who will drift inside which helps us even more as he can play as a RCB when needed rather than if he was against a winger who would overlap and stretch the play.

Silva will often be drifting infield in a deep position. If Ivanovic is going to follow him into central midfield then great. Henry will be all over the space he leaves behind him in the left channel.

 

[Skizzo]

The excellent Micheal Cox points out a few weaknesses of city's 4-2-2-2. A system akin to what pat and skizzo are using here. The bolded points are the one I have been stressing since the game began, while skizpat have an excellent team the balance is simply wrong and they really dont have anyone with the work rate to make it work. In a 4-4-2 anyway.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/tactics-...blems-are-caused-by-their-players-not-tactics

You're calling it a 4222, we arent.

Neither side has wingers who will track up and down the wing, the benefit for us is that it means Ronaldo goes one on one against Pearce, and Silva can drift centrally to get on the ball.

Henry often drifted left to expose space in the channel, so when we attack we would be more of a 433. Silva is the difference here as he allows us to hold the central area as an extra player that you can't track. Behind those 4 we have a solid midfield two who will hold the central areas, and a back 4 better suited to the match up they face. On the flip side, Southgate stopping any of Henry, Suarez or Ronaldo is too much I'm afraid.

Also, how often did Overmars play on the right for Arsenal? I remember him almost exclusively as a left winger for them. Happy to be shown otherwise, hard to check much on my phone.

That's not even mentioning the fact you talk about overmars against Maldini...which has to do with what here? Maldini played how often in the Premier League?

 

[MJJ]

Which version of ronaldo are you playing? @Pat_Mustard @Skizzo

Spain never played a flat 4-4-2. They had busquets as a defensive anchor and no way does your front six match the workrate of their front six. Ginola and Overmars both played in a flat 4-4-2 something you cant say for silva and ronaldo. And keane has more work rate than anyone on the pitch which obviously is a huge plus in our favour.

You're calling it a 4222, we arent.

Neither side has wingers who will track up and down the wing, the benefit for us is that it means Ronaldo goes one on one against Pearce, and Silva can drift centrally to get on the ball.

Henry often drifted left to expose space in the channel, so when we attack we would be more of a 433. Silva is the difference here as he allows us to hold the central area as an extra player that you can't track. Behind those 4 we have a solid midfield two who will hold the central areas, and a back 4 better suited to the match up they face. On the flip side, Southgate stopping any of Henry, Suarez or Ronaldo is too much I'm afraid.

Also, how often did Overmars play on the right for Arsenal? I remember him almost exclusively as a left winger for them. Happy to be shown otherwise, hard to check much on my phone.

That's not even mentioning the fact you talk about overmars against Maldini...which has to do with what here? Maldini played how often in the Premier League?

The same way spain played in the PL :wink:

 

[MJJ]

Silva will often be drifting infield in a deep position. If Ivanovic is going to follow him into central midfield then great. Henry will be all over the space he leaves behind him in the left channel.

As mentioned before that leaves overmars alone against bridge. Scholes has perfected the art of the cross field ball, and your less than average left back is going to be left alone against one of the fastest wingers ever in the PL? Thats going to cause a few issues.

 

[Skizzo]

Which version of ronaldo are you playing? @Pat_Mustard @Skizzo

Spain never played a flat 4-4-2. They had busquets as a defensive anchor and no way does your front six match the workrate of their front six. Ginola and Overmars both played in a flat 4-4-2 something you cant say for silva and ronaldo. And keane has more work rate than anyone on the pitch which obviously is a huge plus in our favour.




The same way spain played in the PL :wink:

Well we might as well bring up all our World Cup wins now that international matches apparently count in a Premier League draft :wink:

 

[Skizzo]

As mentioned before that leaves overmars alone against bridge. Scholes has perfected the art of the cross field ball, and your less than average left back is going to be left alone against one of the fastest wingers ever in the PL? Thats going to cause a few issues.

Comparison to Ronaldo being alone against Pearce, Alonso mastered long ball, left back against deadliest winger/player ever in the PL with Southgate to cover. That's going to cause more than a few issues.

 

[MJJ]

Well we might as well bring up all our World Cup wins now that international matches apparently count in a Premier League draft :wink:

So who exactly is the grafter in your midfield? As pointed above, all of them played alongside a defensive minded player who did the dirty work. And again, what version of ronaldo is this?

 

[MJJ]

Comparison to Ronaldo being alone against Pearce, Alonso mastered long ball, left back against deadliest winger/player ever in the PL with Southgate to cover. That's going to cause more than a few issues.

Cant really respond to this until I know which version of ronaldo are you playing?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Like discussed earlier, is there actually any evidence that Desailly played a full season or more as a centre back for Milan? If not, however you rate Desailly as a centre back - that must surely be the level from his 96-98-00 performances for France and his time in Chelsea where he was part of the team of the decade. Honest question, I've been trying to find evidence myself of Desailly being a first team centre back for Milan and through the seasons I looked at 96-98 I kept finding him listed and played as a midfielder.

I've searched it before too. He only played DM for Milan. Was trying to see if his first games 93-94 were in CB, but seems not. For CB, it is France, Chelsea performances that need to be factored in.

 

[Skizzo]

Cant really respond to this until I know which version of ronaldo are you playing?

What version of Arsenals right wing overmars are you playing?

 

[Pat_Mustard]

So who exactly is the grafter in your midfield? As pointed above, all of them played alongside a defensive minded player who did the dirty work. And again, what version of ronaldo is this?

2007-08 Ronaldo, where his goalscoring and big-match pedigree improved even more, and his contribution to the build up play in our fluid Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez attack was breathtaking at times.

 

[MJJ]

What version of Arsenals right wing overmars are you playing?

Weird comment, overmars style of play never really changed till he lost his pace. Whereas ronaldo 06/07, 07/08 and 08/09 are three different commodities.

 

[MJJ]

2007-08 Ronaldo, where his goalscoring and big-match pedigree improved even more, and his contribution to the build up play in our fluid Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez attack was breathtaking at times.

The same ronaldo that played a free role from the left while park-ji sung/hargreaves covered for him in the middle? And rooney tevez provided the work rate on the left? And evra owned that left wing negating the use of a proper winger to cover for him?

 

[Skizzo]

Weird comment, overmars style of play never really changed till he lost his pace. Whereas ronaldo 06/07, 07/08 and 08/09 are three different commodities.

Well it makes a difference if you play someone in a position they never played in that competition.

We aren't using Desailly in dm.

 

[MJJ]

Ronaldo played well in a 4-3-3, Silva played well in a 4-3-3. Playing them both in a 4-4-2 without workers is playing a 4-2-2-2, no matter how you two try to paint it. You arent even playing with two DMs eihter!

 

[MJJ]

Well it makes a difference if you play someone in a position they never played in that competition.

We aren't using Desailly in dm.

Ronaldo 07-08 never played as a right mid in a 4-4-2 either.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

So who exactly is the grafter in your midfield? As pointed above, all of them played alongside a defensive minded player who did the dirty work. And again, what version of ronaldo is this?

Do we really need to answer that when Patrick Vieira is in the centre of our midfield? This 'Petit did the dirty work' argument borders on the absurd. Vieira was one of the very best and hardest-working PL midfielders ever. What he did tend to like was having a deeper-lying midfielder in the team with him, for example Petit and later Gilberto. Pretty much the same position that Xabi Alonso will be playing here.

 

[Skizzo]

Ronaldo 07-08 never played as a right mid in a 4-4-2 either.

So are we playing a 442 or 4222? Which one are you deciding on now?

Or with the ball are we playing more of a 433 like we said?

 

[MJJ]

So are we playing a 442 or 4222? Which one are you deciding on now?

Or with the ball are we playing more of a 433 like we said?

Now you ARE being obtuse. When i called it a 4222 earlier, you rejected the claim. Are you accepting it now? A 4-3-3 with two strikers?

 

[MJJ]

Do we really need to answer that when Patrick Vieira is in the centre of our midfield? This 'Petit did the dirty work' argument borders on the absurd. Vieira was one of the very best and hardest-working PL midfielders ever. What he did tend to like was having a deeper-lying midfielder in the team with him, for example Petit and later Gilberto. Pretty much the same position that Xabi Alonso will be playing here.

Petit was a good DM with good work rate and tacklingg, not like xabi at all

 

[Skizzo]

Now you ARE being obtuse. When i called it a 4222 earlier, you rejected the claim. Are you accepting it now? A 4-3-3 with two strikers?

claims of someone being obtuse coming from you so far is a good one.

You've called it a 442, a 4222 and are arguing our weaknesses of both. I asked you what we are playing then since you can't quite seem to decide.

A 433 with two strikers? I don't think those numbers add up. Unless you mean are we using a 433 with a striker drifting wide to explore the channel he often ran riot in?

 

[MJJ]

claims of someone being obtuse coming from you so far is a good one.

You've called it a 442, a 4222 and are arguing our weaknesses of both. I asked you what we are playing then since you can't quite seem to decide.

A 433 with two strikers? I don't think those numbers add up. Unless you mean are we using a 433 with a striker drifting wide to explore the channel he often ran riot in?

You're calling it a 4222, we arent.

Neither side has wingers who will track up and down the wing, the benefit for us is that it means Ronaldo goes one on one against Pearce, and Silva can drift centrally to get on the ball.

Henry often drifted left to expose space in the channel, so when we attack we would be more of a 433. Silva is the difference here as he allows us to hold the central area as an extra player that you can't track. Behind those 4 we have a solid midfield two who will hold the central areas, and a back 4 better suited to the match up they face. On the flip side, Southgate stopping any of Henry, Suarez or Ronaldo is too much I'm afraid.

Also, how often did Overmars play on the right for Arsenal? I remember him almost exclusively as a left winger for them. Happy to be shown otherwise, hard to check much on my phone.

That's not even mentioning the fact you talk about overmars against Maldini...which has to do with what here? Maldini played how often in the Premier League?

So what is it when you are defending?


So your striker will move into space when attacking? Like every other striker ever on the planet who makes runs into channels? Henry is starting from a striker position, he isnt drifting left to swap with silva when he comes in but drifting left to attack the space. How exactly is that a 4-3-3? Calling it a 4-3-3 is the same as wanting your cake and eating it as well. it doesnt work. Its a 4-2-2-2, which you should accept. The weaknesses of both systems are the same, if you play silva,ronaldo in a 4-4-2(while attacking and defending) it wont work. If you play them in God Knows What when defending and a 4-3-3 when attacking update your OP to reflect that. Only problem with that is henry never played as a left wing forward for arsenal so you went for this "compromise"

Silva is playing as a LAM, 07/08 Ronaldo played as an auxilary striker from the left wing position, both your CMs played with a DM. Top Heavy and disjointed side.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I've searched it before too. He only played DM for Milan. Was trying to see if his first games 93-94 were in CB, but seems not. For CB, it is France, Chelsea performances that need to be factored in.

I don't think he did with any sort of regularity. It was certainly surprising/interesting seeing how France played him at CB and not DM so I would rule out the first Capello period, also the Tabárez/Sacchi period out of pure logic (they still had Baresi). It is only 1997-98 when Capello returned that he may have been deployed there, but certainly not with great success as otherwise they surely wouldn't have sold him.

Basically, CB Desailly at club level is Chelsea's Desailly, no two ways about it.

Yup. That is why I was trying to look through 96-98 and I couldn't find anything either suggesting he was a central defender. Honestly hadn't thought about it before this draft but Desailly - who is constantly used as a centre back in these drafts and considered World Class is the one we have here.

I don't think I was the only one remembering his later performances primarily when he was past his peak and I was a bit surprised seeing him included in the EPL team of the decade. But after watching a few full games of him from his early Chelsea time there is no doubt that he was World Class those first years here and he deserves to be in that team of the decade.

Still I believe that Rio stands out in this draft for being so great on the ball and he complements all other top centre backs in this draft so well, would have loved to see him feature. But Desailly played with Gallas for Chelsea and I said earlier he is probably the second best together with Sol who partnered many limited centre backs too.

Stam/Terry/Vidic partnered up together wouldn't really work that well together so it makes sense to see Desailly/Sol in a final, even if I was hoping that it would be the weaker defense as they were facing Rio and Terry/Stam/Vidic.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

The same ronaldo that played a free role from the left while park-ji sung/hargreaves covered for him in the middle? And rooney tevez provided the work rate on the left? And evra owned that left wing negating the use of a proper winger to cover for him?

Either your memory is playing tricks on you or you're just making things up. Ronaldo played some lovely football from the left but mostly started on the right, not least because Ryan giggs made 31 league appearances that season. Here's a line up from a league match that season against Chelsea to refresh your memory:

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Tevez (Saha 79), Rooney.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Nani, Pique, O'Shea

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6996759.stm

Looks conspicuously like Giggs tucking in from the left wing, Ronaldo starting from the right wing, and two strikers capable of interchanging at will. Not dissimilar to David Silva/Ronaldo/Henry/Suarez here actually.

 

[MJJ]

Either your memory is playing tricks on you or you're just making things up. Ronaldo played some lovely football from the left but mostly started on the right, not least because Ryan giggs made 31 league appearances that season. Here's a line up from a league match that season against Chelsea to refresh your memory:

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Tevez (Saha 79), Rooney.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Nani, Pique, O'Shea

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6996759.stm

Looks conspicuously like Giggs tucking in from the left wing, Ronaldo starting from the right wing, and two strikers capable of interchanging at will. Not dissimilar to David Silva/Ronaldo/Henry/Suarez here actually.

That was the season we signed hargreaves? I remember him and park ji sung playing more and more from the right while ronaldo played almost exclusively on the left. Might be getting my seasons mixed up here.

 

[Skizzo]

So what is it when you are defending?


So your striker will move into space when attacking? Like every other striker ever on the planet who makes runs into channels? Henry is starting from a striker position, he isnt drifting left to swap with silva when he comes in but drifting left to attack the space. How exactly is that a 4-3-3? Calling it a 4-3-3 is the same as wanting your cake and eating it as well. it doesnt work. Its a 4-2-2-2, which you should accept. The weaknesses of both systems are the same, if you play silva,ronaldo in a 4-4-2(while attacking and defending) it wont work. If you play them in God Knows What when defending and a 4-3-3 when attacking update your OP to reflect that. Only problem with that is henry never played as a left wing forward for arsenal so you went for this "compromise"

Silva is playing as a LAM, 07/08 Ronaldo played as an auxilary striker from the left wing position, both your CMs played with a DM. Top Heavy and disjointed side.

Not sure why you see things as so rigid. Henry moving in to channels isn't the same as Shearer moving in to channels.

Anyway, you pick and choose what you want, and that's fine. You're trying to deflect from the fact that your defence couldn't stop us outscoring you even if we played a 226 formation.

Every "complaint" you've thrown our way is equally applicable to your team. Your wingers offer no protection, you have no DM, players not in their best positions etc etc. Except we have players who made their name in fluid set ups, and they still have a sound back 6 behind them to let then run the show.

 

[MJJ]

Not sure why you see things as so rigid. Henry moving in to channels isn't the same as Shearer moving in to channels.

Anyway, you pick and choose what you want, and that's fine. You're trying to deflect from the fact that your defence couldn't stop us outscoring you even if we played a 226 formation.

Every "complaint" you've thrown our way is equally applicable to your team. Your wingers offer no protection, you have no DM, players not in their best positions etc etc. Except we have players who made their name in fluid set ups, and they still have a sound back 6 behind them to let then run the show.

Where have I denied that? Difference is that my players actually played in a 4-4-2. Keane has a better work rate and is better defensively than any other player on the pitch. Scholes won the league playing alongside micheal carrick so he is fine defensively. Our fullbacks are better than yours so calling it a sound back six doesnt work. Neither of my central duo is used to playing with a DM as is yours.

 

[Skizzo]

Where have I denied that? Difference is that my players actually played in a 4-4-2. Keane has a better work rate and is better defensively than any other player on the pitch. Scholes won the league playing alongside micheal carrick so he is fine defensively. Our fullbacks are better than yours so calling it a sound back six doesnt work. Neither of my central duo is used to playing with a DM as is yours.

They played in a 442 with two hardworking wingers. Here you have them set up in a 4231 almost, with two wingers who won't track back like any of the ones Scholes and Keane usually played with.

Saying we have a sound back 6 has nothing to do with the relativity to your defence.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

That was the season we signed hargreaves? I remember him and park ji sung playing more and more from the right while ronaldo played almost exclusively on the left. Might be getting my seasons mixed up here.

Yeah that's the season. IIRC Hargreaves only started getting some games on the right wing towards the very end of the season. Another example of Ronaldo starting from the right, with Giggs, Tevez and Roney rounding out the attack. Gorgeous team goal finished by Ronaldo from 1:05, which is the sort of interplay our attack is capable of replicating:



Its worth pointing out that Ronaldo generally played with Wes Brown behind him that season, and Gallas here is similar in style and the better player.

 

[MJJ]

They played in a 442 with two hardworking wingers. Here you have them set up in a 4231 almost, with two wingers who won't track back like any of the ones Scholes and Keane usually played with.

Saying we have a sound back 6 has nothing to do with the relativity to your defence.

Scholes 06/09 played with two hard working wingers?

Yeah that's the season. IIRC Hargreaves only started getting some games on the right wing towards the very end of the season. Another example of Ronaldo starting from the right, with Giggs, Tevez and Roney rounding out the attack. Gorgeous team goal finished by Ronaldo from 1:05, which is the sort of interplay our attack is capable of replicating:



Its worth pointing out that Ronaldo generally played with Wes Brown behind him that season, and Gallas here is similar in style and the better player.

Fair enough, taking that comment back, think my lasting memory of that season is from europe. Think you are underrating brown a bit here, he was excellent in that 07/08 season.