Honestly Jadeja is what made me vote for KM. I can see him going for 80
All Time ODI Cricket Draft SF 1: KM vs Samid
- Thread starter Norris
- Start date
People talking about AB and all but a 35yr old Sachin scored a double century against Steyn and Co when given the right conditions. He's a class above any other batsmen on the show.
I think Samid has the better team. Gilchrist will cause some serious carnage at the top of the order in these conditions (look at his record in 3 consecutive World Cup finals - the quality of the opposition won't phase him).
Which Jadeja are you talking about? Ajay?
India in Australia 2016, look at the economy rates. Jadeja is the best bowler in terms of keeping the economy down.
Look at his 40 recent matches since October 2013. Only 4 times in those 40 games has Jadeja gone for more than 6.8 per over. Of those 4, one was played at Auckland (55m boundaries), one was played at Jo'burg (1800m elevation) and one was played at Dharamsala (1600m elevation). These high altitude tracks are nightmares for spinners because the ball flies off the bat as a result of thin air.
Most of these games have been played on flat tracks. Add to that he has bowled in the powerplays and with those ridiculous 5 in the circle restrictions. Jadeja is a reliable bowler. There is absolute nothing to suggest that Jadeja will be going for 80 or anything remotely close.
I'm assuming this game is being played on normal altitude with normal boundary sizes and normal field restrictions. Jadeja won't go for more than 55-60.
This. Overall Tendulkar is a better player but on a batting paradise where both sides have good batsmen, the explosiveness of Gilchrist is worth much more. Gilchrist is as you say a big game player. Also almost all of his centuries have come at better than a run a ball. Tendulkar has loads of centuries slower than run a ball.
I wouldn't swap Gilly for Tendulkar even if I could. A 70 ball century from Gilly is worth loads more than a run a ball century from Sachin.
What is Watson doing at #5? He has played 4 innings at that position in his career, only twice while chasing.
What is Matthews doing at #7? Matthews' score at 7 when chasing: 0, 6, 8, 5, 2, 38, 18, 14*, 21*, 64.
In a crunch run chase, two of KM's batsmen are walking in at unfamiliar positions. Watson is not a #5 and Matthews is not a #7.
Someone on the previous page said I'm lacking balance. I've got 6 batsmen, 1 all rounder, 4 bowlers. All playing in their natural positions. That's perfect balance.
The one lacking balance here is KM. Two of his batsmen are playing in unnatural positions. It looks like he is trying to fit in as many all rounders as possible just for the sake of it. Really poor effort making it to a semi final and playing two of your main guys out of their favoured position.
What is Matthews doing at #7? Matthews' score at 7 when chasing: 0, 6, 8, 5, 2, 38, 18, 14*, 21*, 64.
In a crunch run chase, two of KM's batsmen are walking in at unfamiliar positions. Watson is not a #5 and Matthews is not a #7.
Someone on the previous page said I'm lacking balance. I've got 6 batsmen, 1 all rounder, 4 bowlers. All playing in their natural positions. That's perfect balance.
The one lacking balance here is KM. Two of his batsmen are playing in unnatural positions. It looks like he is trying to fit in as many all rounders as possible just for the sake of it. Really poor effort making it to a semi final and playing two of your main guys out of their favoured position.
Such a shame that people haven't seen Tendulkar in prime then. Missing on such a treat.
Tempted to change my vote now.
I am going to go for Samid at the moment. I like his batting just a little bit more. The likes of Bevan, de Villiers and Gilly are too good for me. KM has the better bowlers however and have what it takes to keep the 1st Innings score down. I guess it comes down to who the 5th bowler is. If I am not mistaken, KM will use Mathews and Watson for that 5th bowler quota and Samid likely to use Jadeja. Jaddu slightly ahead maybe but that is alrgely because I am not sure how good Mathews is. But hard to say.
Ok, maybe I won't vote right now then :|
Ok, maybe I won't vote right now then :|
not sure if serious
I have voted for Samid. I'm saying the post is so ridiculous that I'd shift to KM.
I don't understand this weird fascination for a like for like comparison. Even I indulged in it in the Test Draft and it really doesnt help decide which team is better. If at all you want to have a comparison done it should be between one team's batting line up against the oppositions bowling line up and see how they hold up. And frankly, KM's bowling is better than Samid's bowling. How much of this better bowling leads to containing the total runs scored by Samid remains to be seen.
Also, I really fancy De Silva in a chase. And on a flat top, he can build his innings and see the team home. Except for Garner, who I don't know if De Silva ever played against, De Silva has played against better bowlers than Khan and Gillespie and came out on top.
Absolutely. Comparing both batting and bowling lineups like this doesn't make much sense.
I don't have Gillespie.
As for the comparison I don't see it being much worse than KM saying his bowling is much better than mine without giving any reasoning.
And Gilly never value his wkt, and have seen lot of times throws his wkt like that.
You got better batting line up as whole but this comparison is ridiculous..
It was a general rant against the comparison being made.
Adding Gillespie there is my mistake; should have been Ntini. But the point still remains Aravinda has come out on top against better bowlers than Khan and Ntini.
I am still not sure who would win. As Watson coming in so much down the order, in a role he hasn't played much before, cannot be ignored in a run chase. If KM was batting first, I would not have cared which position Watson comes in at. But while chasing, when invariably run rate has to be kept in check, without giving away wickets is a specialised job and a player who hasn't been involved in such situations cannot be assumed to perform well.
Right throughout this draft KM has been using master suppression techniques.
- Posting green smilies regularly
- Failing to reply to the serious questions, diverting attention from those issues. I asked why two of his batsmen in a chase aren't playing in regular positions, got no answer.
- And then we have the ridiculing posts:
- "Have people watched Matthews and Buttler at all?"
- "Have people not watched prime Sachin"
- "Donald is the best bowler on show equal with Garner. Then comes Hadlee, Gillespie, Ajmal and then your rubbish"
- "What rubbish. Jadeja equal to Watson. Jesus Christ"
- "Think your 90's is better than everything right now is clouding your judgement"
- Posting green smilies regularly
- Failing to reply to the serious questions, diverting attention from those issues. I asked why two of his batsmen in a chase aren't playing in regular positions, got no answer.
- And then we have the ridiculing posts:
- "Have people watched Matthews and Buttler at all?"
- "Have people not watched prime Sachin"
- "Donald is the best bowler on show equal with Garner. Then comes Hadlee, Gillespie, Ajmal and then your rubbish"
- "What rubbish. Jadeja equal to Watson. Jesus Christ"
- "Think your 90's is better than everything right now is clouding your judgement"
Stop posting stupid stuff then. I'll take your post seriously. Matthews regularly plays in the lower order. Your assumption that he can't play at these number just on the basis of stats comes across as clueless and stupid. Matthews has an average of 53 at 5th and 34 at 6th, so if I move him two positions down would he seriously forget batting? That's the problem with too much stats.
You posted Watson's bowling stats after 2013 and compared it with Jadeja to mislead the voters despite well knowing that Watson is injury prone and at his prime he was a better bowler than Jadeja. We are supposed to rate player at their peak and yet you posted stats of Watson when he has clearly lost his pace due to injuries.
In the comparison thing you clubbed my two openers as one and then compared your bowlers with my bowlers in such an order than you'll come out looking decent.
I can easily say that Garner is better than Gillespie, Hadleee is better than Zaheer, Donald is better than Ntini, Ajmal is better than Qadir and Watson is better than Jadeja. That makes it 4 to 1 in bowling departments. In opening Sachin is better than Gilchrist, Amla is better than Greenidge, Da Silva(being seriously underrated here) is better than Crowe and then batting department looks better.
The reason I'm not taking this seriously and making stupid statements or posting misleading stats is because its just a game and I don't need to indulge in this lying. This seems to be pretty important for you, so you can continue playing this way and I'll play my way.
You posted Watson's bowling stats after 2013 and compared it with Jadeja to mislead the voters despite well knowing that Watson is injury prone and at his prime he was a better bowler than Jadeja. We are supposed to rate player at their peak and yet you posted stats of Watson when he has clearly lost his pace due to injuries.
In the comparison thing you clubbed my two openers as one and then compared your bowlers with my bowlers in such an order than you'll come out looking decent.
I can easily say that Garner is better than Gillespie, Hadleee is better than Zaheer, Donald is better than Ntini, Ajmal is better than Qadir and Watson is better than Jadeja. That makes it 4 to 1 in bowling departments. In opening Sachin is better than Gilchrist, Amla is better than Greenidge, Da Silva(being seriously underrated here) is better than Crowe and then batting department looks better.
The reason I'm not taking this seriously and making stupid statements or posting misleading stats is because its just a game and I don't need to indulge in this lying. This seems to be pretty important for you, so you can continue playing this way and I'll play my way.
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Master suppression techniques 
According to KM the bowling is rated like this:
Donald = Garner > Hadlee, Gillespie, Ajmal > "my rubbish"
"My rubbish" he is talking about is Qadir and Ntini.
Ntini has a very impressive record on flat tracks in Ind/Pak. Gillespie only played 3 games in these countries and got a hammering. Overall Ntini has better average and strike rate plus more longevity than Gillespie yet Ntini is being characterised as "rubbish" while apparently Gillespie is a GOAT.
Qadir, whom Gooch said was even finer than Warne, is being described as "rubbish" here. Qadir has a solid record most places.
Donald = Garner > Hadlee, Gillespie, Ajmal > "my rubbish"
"My rubbish" he is talking about is Qadir and Ntini.
Ntini has a very impressive record on flat tracks in Ind/Pak. Gillespie only played 3 games in these countries and got a hammering. Overall Ntini has better average and strike rate plus more longevity than Gillespie yet Ntini is being characterised as "rubbish" while apparently Gillespie is a GOAT.
Qadir, whom Gooch said was even finer than Warne, is being described as "rubbish" here. Qadir has a solid record most places.
Samid wins this one.
Keep on with your lies buddy. I hope you win, seems like you need it.
You got shot as merlin a second after you left the game yesterdayThese techniques don't help me in the resistance game
If you move him down two positions you make him play in an unfamiliar position. He doesn't forget batting but you are expecting him to chase from a position he has chased very poorly in his career. As I said, Matthews' innings while chasing at no. 7: 0, 6, 8, 5, 2, 38, 18, 14*, 21*, 64.
Different positions require different things from you. At 5 you usually have a bit time to get settled because it's early on in the innings. At 7 you usually have to go for it from the first ball. Matthews is wasted at 7 and Watson is wasted at 5.
This is from OP, it says nothing about prime: "1) Judge players only on the basis of their ODI records."
Yep, bit daft to expect a position shift to have no difference when it's apparent to any layman cricket watcher that it does.
That said, your post about Sachin is equally daft.
This is what I'm talking about guys. No interest in discussing cricket. Just interested in posting green smilies, saying the opponent players are "rubbish", claiming everything to be a lie.
I frankly couldn't care less if I win or lose but it's annoying when all your opponent can say is how rubbish your bowling is and that you're lying. At the end of the day it's a cricket draft, not a bickering draft.
No arguments there.
You did lie though. That Sachin post. That stats about Watson post 2013. That shuffled bowling and batting order
In the end, Cricket's not a winner in this one.
In the end, Cricket's not a winner in this one.
Just not cricket, chaps.
For all the shit Jadeja is getting, let’s have a look at the batsmen he is getting out:
Root 3 times in 11 games @ 23 avg
Buttler 3 times in 8 games @ 5.33 avg
Matthews 2 times in 17 games @ 12.5 avg
A bowler that has been described as "rubbish" by KM is eating up half his batting order.
I still don't see how these batsmen can chase down a big score.
Root 3 times in 11 games @ 23 avg
Buttler 3 times in 8 games @ 5.33 avg
Matthews 2 times in 17 games @ 12.5 avg
A bowler that has been described as "rubbish" by KM is eating up half his batting order.
I still don't see how these batsmen can chase down a big score.
- Root is not a good chaser. His average batting first 49, chasing it is 38.
- Watson batting in a position not suited for him.
- Matthews batting way down the order. Matthews is good when he has time to compose the chase. You don't get that luxury batting at 7. Here you have to walk in and smash it straight away which Matthews' numbers show he isn't good at.
- Buttler is a natural striker of the ball no doubt but as a chaser he is not consistent enough yet. It's all well and good saying he can strike it a million miles but is he a consistent performer in a chase? I would say no.
- Garner at the death is lethal. Arguably one of the greatest.
I dont think its fair to say Root isnt good chasing. Averages are mere indicators. For me if someone has an average of 35 or so, then its a good average and it means he is good in whatever situation. You are taking a small sample so to expect the guy to have similar averages everywhere is frankly a bit unreasonable. At best you could say he is better batting first but batting second he does have a good record imo.
38 isn't very good in this day and age. He made his debut in 2013 and since then ODI scores have consistently been over 300. You need more than 38 from your batsman at 3 when chasing 300+.
Jos Buttler doing his stuff when his team is in trouble.