All-Time National XIs

[Physiocrat]

@Enigma_87 Those changes in the Italian side makes sense but I would have to drop Rivera. Rui Costa and Pirlo didn't work and I don't think Rivera Pirlo would for similar reasons. So you would probably bring in Mazzola or Bulgarelli.

I like you four at the back Brazil side although I don't think Ronaldinho and Garrincha as part of a front four gives enough defensive work rate and both would want the ball all the time. Leaving that aside I think Dinho would benefit from Carlos overlapping whereas Cafu is a little redundant overlapping a classic winger in Garrincha.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Enigma_87 Those changes in the Italian side makes sense but I would have to drop Rivera. Rui Costa and Pirlo didn't work and I don't think Rivera Pirlo would for similar reasons. So you would probably bring in Mazzola or Bulgarelli.

I like you four at the back Brazil side although I don't think Ronaldinho and Garrincha as part of a front four gives enough defensive work rate and both would want the ball all the time. Leaving that aside I think Dinho would benefit from Carlos overlapping whereas Cafu is a little redundant overlapping a classic winger in Garrincha.

yeah agreed on those. Djalma instead of Cafu will bring balance in the second lineup. Rivelino instead of Dinho also.

I like Mazzola for Rivera too. Very underrated player.

 

[berbasloth4]

------keane ---- aldridge-------

duff-----------------------Brady-
--------giles------keane--------
harte---------------------irwin--
--------mcgrath--oleary--------
---------------given-------------

 

[Physiocrat]

------keane ---- aldridge-------

duff-----------------------Brady-
--------giles------keane--------
harte---------------------irwin--
--------mcgrath--oleary--------
---------------given-------------

Nice. That's actually a pretty good side overall.

 

[Michaelf7777777]

------keane ---- aldridge-------

duff-----------------------Brady-
--------giles------keane--------
harte---------------------irwin--
--------mcgrath--oleary--------
---------------given-------------

My All Time Republic of Ireland XI would be as follows:

-------------Stapleton-----------
Sheedy----------------------Duff
----------Brady----Giles---------
---------------Keane-------------
Irwin-----------------------Carey
-------McGrath--Lawrenson-----
---------------Given--------------

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

I find a Russian XI very hard.Many of the bigger names are from the 45-66 period without much film available of them, it can be hard to mix them in with more tactically recent players. So i'll just do a pure old school one as though there are worthy players after that, none of them are a Yashin "must have" type.

Chislenko's strong international performances should probably put him ahead of Trofimov, all things considered, but i wanted to give the older man a shout out as quite a few seemed to still considered him the best RW at the point Chislenko career was cut short with injury.



Georgia

They can present a good first 11, considering the small population. Most of the team are Soviet League greats. Left Wing is supposed to Mikhail Meskhi btw.



Ukraine

Much easier to make than Russia imo, with vast majority of the candidates coming from late 60s on, with far more footage available. Midfield is tough however, they have a good number of players there with close level of ability and accomplishment.



@harms

Where do you see Bobrov as a footballer? More of a hockey great and/or historical quriosity? or still worth a place to all-time ussr/russia? His time as a footballer was short and quite injury ridden, plus it's not easy to say what the quality was like back then other than it was more attacking tactically, but he does have a goal a game goalscoring run from 45-50 that exceeds in the league what Streltsov did to build his initial reputation. Streltsov of course had his international goalscoring too, whereas Bobrov only had the 52 Olympics.

However he did stand out on tour and in that olympic game vs Yugoslavia with the team under huge political pressure to win and completely choking at 5-1 down he stepped up and turned the game around. Couldn't do it in the tighter second game yet scored again and seems from observers to have been arguably the best player over the two games even though that Yugo team was loaded with their greats, Zebec, Vukas, Bobek, Mitic, Beara, Branko Stankovic, Cajkovski.

​

 

[harms]

Where do you see Bobrov as a footballer? More of a hockey great and/or historical quriosity? or still worth a place to all-time ussr/russia? His time as a footballer was short and quite injury ridden, plus it's not easy to say what the quality was like back then other than it was more attacking tactically, but he does have a goal a game goalscoring run from 45-50 that exceeds in the league what Streltsov did to build his initial reputation. Streltsov of course had his international goalscoring too, whereas Bobrov only had the 52 Olympics.

However he did stand out on tour and in that olympic game vs Yugoslavia with the team under huge political pressure to win and completely choking at 5-1 down he stepped up and turned the game around. Couldn't do it in the tighter second game yet scored again and seems from observers to have been arguably the best player over the two games even though that Yugo team was loaded with their greats, Zebec, Vukas, Bobek, Mitic, Beara, Branko Stankovic, Cajkovski.

He deserves to be in our XI, it's just so hard to assess those completely pre-footage players. Incredible specimen, that's for sure.

 

[Physiocrat]

Here's an Italy attempt for post-1990 -

------------Baggio----Vieri
Donadoni---Pirlo-----Gattuso---Zambrotta
Maldini-----Nesta-----Baresi---Tassotti---
-----------------Buffon-----------------------

 

[Gio]

No Del Piero or Totti @Physiocrat ?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

id switch the channel because of that right side, feck id rather watch a turned off tv.

 

[Physiocrat]

No Del Piero or Totti @Physiocrat ?

It's the Pirlo problem again. I just don't see a classic 10 working with him and I'm not sure of the synergy of say Del Piero and Baggio with both very much liking the inside left channel, that said Zidane and Del Piero worked. So maybe Baggio at 10 and then we can go Zona Mista and @Šjor Bepo might watch -

--------Del Piero------Vieri------------
---------------Baggio-----------Donadoni
---------Gattuso---------------------------
Zambrotta---------Pirlo-------------------
------------Maldini--Baresi--Bergomi
-----------------Buffon-------------------

 

[Šjor Bepo]

It's the Pirlo problem again. I just don't see a classic 10 working with him and I'm not sure of the synergy of say Del Piero and Baggio with both very much liking the inside left channel, that said Zidane and Del Piero worked. So maybe Baggio at 10 and then we can go Zona Mista and @Šjor Bepo might watch -

--------Del Piero------Vieri------------
---------------Baggio-----------Donadoni
---------Gattuso---------------------------
Zambrotta---------Pirlo-------------------
------------Maldini--Baresi--Bergomi
-----------------Buffon-------------------

its better though it still has Gattuso so probably not.

 

[Physiocrat]

its better though it still has Gattuso so probably not.

True, but what other decent B2B Italian midfielder has there been in the last 30 years?

 

[Infordin]

True, but what other decent B2B Italian midfielder has there been in the last 30 years?

De Rossi at his peak was a better player than Gattuso ever was

 

[Infordin]

 

[Physiocrat]

De Rossi at his peak was a better player than Gattuso ever was

True, but he was more of a DM than a B2B.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

So much talent there. Shame it will have no chemistry.

Also, Ruggeri ahead of Samuel there surely.

 

[Infordin]

True, but he was more of a DM than a B2B.

How about Marchisio?

Not quite as energetic as Gattuso, but quite a bit better on the ball.

 

[Infordin]

So much talent there. Shame it will have no chemistry.

Also, Ruggeri ahead of Samuel there surely.

I don't know enough about Ruggeri to make a judgement. Samuel was one of the best defenders of his generation, but it's entirely possible that Ruggeri was greater.

I think that an all-time Argentina XI could match any other all-time XI, including Brazil. However, Brazil will have a lot more depth on the bench.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

could the big trio play together? Reckon the young goalscoring version of Messi, older version of Di Stefano and peak Diego could possibly be great together. Surrounded with unselfish players that can play with will have no problems with sacrificing their game for the team benefit. Redondo would be in quality wise but reckon this way its a more balanced team.

 

[Invictus]

could the big trio play together?

Swap one of Di Stéfano or Maradona for Batistuta (who wasn't at their level obviously but a great player in his own right and a much better fit) and you should be fine, IMO. All three together is like Cruyff + Maradona + Zico in the same attack...super enticing, and looks good on paper as we try to convince ourselves that assorted versions will be effective together, but very likely to be volcanic and haphazardly organized in practice. Always a shame when teams have an embarrassment of riches in one department — like attackers or forwards for Argentina/Brazil and leftbacks/sweepers for Italy, but palpable shortages in others!

Batistuta Messi
Maradona
Cambiasso Monti/Masch Ardiles
Marzolini Passarella Ruggeri Zanetti
Fillol​

 

[Physiocrat]

Swap one of Di Stéfano or Maradona for Batistuta (who wasn't at their level obviously but a great player in his own right and a much better fit) and you should be fine, IMO. All three together is like Cruyff + Maradona + Zico in the same attack...super enticing, and looks good on paper as we try to convince ourselves that assorted versions will be effective together, but very likely to be volcanic and haphazardly organized in practice. Always a shame when teams have an embarrassment of riches in one department — like attackers or forwards for Argentina/Brazil and leftbacks/sweepers for Italy, but palpable shortages in others!

Batistuta Messi
Maradona
Cambiasso Monti/Masch Ardiles
Marzolini Passarella Ruggeri Zanetti
Fillol​

Argentina just needed one great left winger and their front four picks themselves.

The team above is a bit narrow for my liking on the left so I would probably be reduced to going 3412 with Juan Pablo Sorin at LWB in place of Monti/Masch.

 

[Physiocrat]

How about Marchisio?

Not quite as energetic as Gattuso, but quite a bit better on the ball.

Yes, that's a good idea.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Argentina just needed one great left winger and their front four picks themselves.

The team above is a bit narrow for my liking on the left so I would probably be reduced to going 3412 with Juan Pablo Sorin at LWB in place of Monti/Masch.

I'd actually replace Cambiasso with Di Maria as the LCM who could drift wide.

Argentina back 4 picks itself

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I don't think Maradona can play with Messi or Di Stefano effectively.

Can see Di Stefano and young Messi enjoying each other's company

Also, a Di Stefano team should not be narrow without wingers

--------------------Batistuta------------------
Orsi-------------Di Stefano--------Messi
------------Monti----------Redondo--------
Marzolini--Passa--Ruggeri---Zanetti

----------Kempes----Batistuta----------
------------------Maradona-----------------
---------Ardiles----------Redondo-------
Marzolini------Monti----------Zanetti
-------Passarella---Ruggeri------------

 

[Physiocrat]

I'd actually replace Cambiasso with Di Maria as the LCM who could drift wide.

Argentina back 4 picks itself

Yes, that makes a lot of sense but who would play RCM? Cambiasso? Ardilles doesn't strike me as someone who would like playing there. And yes, the back four does pick itself, it's also handy that Marzolini was a pretty defensive, in modern terms, LB so works great with Passarella - it's quite rare to find a top class defensive LB, they tend to be more attacking historically

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Yes, that makes a lot of sense but who would play RCM? Cambiasso? Ardilles doesn't strike me as someone who would like playing there. And yes, the back four does pick itself, it's also handy that Marzolini was a pretty defensive, in modern terms, LB so works great with Passarella - it's quite rare to find a top class defensive LB, they tend to be more attacking historically

Ardiles from what I know preferred the left side as well.

With Zanetti there, I wouldn't might Redondo too. Zanetti can run up and down all day long.

 

[Physiocrat]

Ardiles from what I know preferred the left side as well.

With Zanetti there, I wouldn't might Redondo too. Zanetti can run up and down all day long.

I was thinking -

-----------Batistuta------Messi----------
-----------------Maradona----------------
--------Di Maria---------Cambiasso-
------------------Redondo----------------

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I was thinking -

-----------Batistuta------Messi----------
-----------------Maradona----------------
--------Di Maria---------Cambiasso-
------------------Redondo----------------

Yea, that is probably a better midfield. Still wouldn't play Diego and Leo together

 

[Gio]

He’s a nice tactical and quality fit is Di Maria. My only quibble is I’m not sold on his self-sacrifice and decision-making when he’s feeding Maradona and Messi. There would be nothing more frustrating than him taking the ball for a run (or even losing it) when he could be releasing it early into their feet.

Hard to think of a better man for a diamond though.

 

[Physiocrat]

Yea, that is probably a better midfield. Still wouldn't play Diego and Leo together

I think if you play the false 9 incarnation as a more traditional second striker there should be no problem. Post-Xavi, Messi possibly but even then I don't see him as a dominant playmaker like Di Stefano.

He’s a nice tactical and quality fit is Di Maria. My only quibble is I’m not sold on his self-sacrifice and decision-making when he’s feeding Maradona and Messi. There would be nothing more frustrating than him taking the ball for a run (or even losing it) when he could be releasing it early into their feet.

Hard to think of a better man for a diamond though.

That's fair. The only solution then would be a 352 again but it is a bit of a waste having Passarella as a sweeper in a back 5. Also is his passing good enough for this position? I would really like one of the vid making crew to do a few of Passarella. There is essentially only videos of his goals out there.

 

[Gio]

I think if you play the false 9 incarnation as a more traditional second striker there should be no problem. Post-Xavi, Messi possibly but even then I don't see him as a dominant playmaker like Di Stefano.



That's fair. The only solution then would be a 352 again but it is a bit of a waste having Passarella as a sweeper in a back 5. Also is his passing good enough for this position? I would really like one of the vid making crew to do a few of Passarella. There is essentially only videos of his goals out there.

Aye it’s a bit like Brazil in that the third CB is a bit of a waste relative to the third attacker that can be accommodated.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Ardilles doesn't strike me as someone who would like playing there.

Its his natural position....in my team its cambiasso that is “on the wrong side” but i just cant have cnut di maria in my team.

 

[harms]

Di Stefano played with Kopa, who played somewhat like today’s Messi tbf. Very much a dribbling tiny wizard who constantly cuts in from the right.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Swap one of Di Stéfano or Maradona for Batistuta (who wasn't at their level obviously but a great player in his own right and a much better fit) and you should be fine, IMO. All three together is like Cruyff + Maradona + Zico in the same attack...super enticing, and looks good on paper as we try to convince ourselves that assorted versions will be effective together, but very likely to be volcanic and haphazardly organized in practice. Always a shame when teams have an embarrassment of riches in one department — like attackers or forwards for Argentina/Brazil and leftbacks/sweepers for Italy, but palpable shortages in others!

Batistuta Messi
Maradona
Cambiasso Monti/Masch Ardiles
Marzolini Passarella Ruggeri Zanetti
Fillol​

Yeah can see one of them being a surplus and id remove Diego out of the team as i can see Messi and DI Stefano having a better chemistry then any other duo from that trio. Just dont agree on Batistuta, personally would prefer a dummy runner rather then a n9 who is a focal point of attack. You dont need goalscorers with the main two already in the team so someone that will make it easier for them to score via his movement and opening space is a much better fit IMO

 

[Physiocrat]

Its his natural position....in my team its cambiasso that is “on the wrong side” but i just cant have cnut di maria in my team.

His natural position is an RCM? From what I have seen of him he seems more of a DLP/ CM playmaker

 

[Šjor Bepo]

His natural position is an RCM? From what I have seen of him he seems more of a DLP/ CM playmaker

yes. I mean the guy can play anywhere, ultimate support player(surprise, surprise gets zero credit in drafts) but RCM is where he played most of the time.

 

[Physiocrat]

yes. I mean the guy can play anywhere, ultimate support player(surprise, surprise gets zero credit in drafts) but RCM is where he played most of the time.

Just to clarify, RCM in a diamond?

So on judging what you said would you go for something like this as an all-time Argie XI-


‐---------Kempes-----Messi--------
----------------Di Stefano--------------
Sorin----Redondo----Ardilles-----Zanetti
---Marzolini--Passarella--Ruggeri
-----------------------Fillol---------------

 

[Šjor Bepo]

dont really remember which formation he played in its been a long time since i watched his games but i can assure you he was mostly on the right side though can easily play on the left, like most can as i was always amazed with people obsession about central midfielders side, specially when played in double pivot.

Assuming you are building a team to compete against other all-time sides id stay with the same team as i posted earlier but id go through Redondo case again given the fact we are dropping Diego for another runner, which runner i honestly dont know.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Just to clarify, RCM in a diamond?

So on judging what you said would you go for something like this as an all-time Argie XI-


‐---------Kempes-----Messi--------
----------------Di Stefano--------------
Sorin----Redondo----Ardilles-----Zanetti
---Marzolini--Passarella--Ruggeri
-----------------------Fillol---------------

The likes of Kempes and Diego are perfect for 3-5-2.

Di Stefano and Messi wouldn't be great in a essentially counter attacking system. They have played all their career in teams that like to dominate the game.