All-time Fantasy Draft - DanNistelrooy v mightberight

[Brwned]

Formation: 4-3-3
Tactics:
The general mentality of the team will be to attack. With Drogba I have one of the toughest forwards and he is able to occupy and hassle even the best defenders in the draft. He will be fed by the ridiculously creative trio of Gascoigne, Ronaldinho and Cristiano Ronaldo. All of that front 4 is capable of creating and scoring goals against any defence.

Although the team has strengths in attacking, they are able to focus on this thanks to a top defence including the best defender of his generation in Nesta and another World Cup winner and ex Germany captain in Vogts. The added protection of Makelele will provide that front 4 with freedom to create. In behind them is Petr Cech, who in his prime was the best in the world. Finally, Seedorf, one of the most decorated players of recent times provides the engine and passing from midfield.

Petr Cech
During Chelsea’s dominance from 2004-2006 he was the best in the world and a key reason for Chelsea’s tight defence in those years. There is no doubt that Chelsea were lucky to win the European cup in 2012 but Cech pulled off some of the best performances I have seen from a keeper in that run – notable performances against Barcelona and Bayern, in particularly the decisive spot kick save from Schweinsteiger.

Berti Vogts
Winner of the World Cup and European Championships with Germany. Also took over the captaincy from Beckenbauer in 1977 so at right back I have a solid player of proper quality.

Alessandro Nesta
Another World Cup winner and also the best centre half of his generation and the finest reader of the game I have seen. The timing of his tackling in his prime was a joy to watch.

Paul McGrath
Imperious centre back and another fine reader of the game. On his day there were few better. Notable performances include the opening game of the 1994 World Cup against Italy. McGrath’s performance in this match went down as one of the best defensive displays ever against Baggio and Signori. Franco Baresi, a frequent contender for the title of best ever central defender, could merely clap watching McGrath’s performance that day.

Jose Antonio Camacho
414 appearances for Real Madrid and a fixture at left back during their dominance of the Spanish League in the 70/80s with NINE league titles to his name.

Claude Makelele
I wanted to pick a player who will allow my forward players to flourish, and there is absolutely nobody better equipped to do this job than Claude Makelele. He has the defensive midfield position name after him. He was a key figure for the “Galacticos” of Real Madrid and although didn’t get as much recognition as Figo/Zidane/Ronaldo, he was just as important to their dominance. This continued to his time with Chelsea. Champions League winner, along with league titles in France, England and Spain.

Clarence Seedorf
A true great of his generation and with his engine and ball control will prove the perfect partner for Makelele. Winner of the Champions League with 3 different teams and also a league Champion in Holland, Spain and Italy. One of the best “box to box” midfielders in his prime and also scorer of one of my favourite goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQ6speL4Ww

Paul Gascoigne
People often talk about what could have been with Gascoigne but there is no doubt about his quality and ability on his day. The most talented and exciting English player I have ever seen. His flair, dribbling and unpredictability will pose a threat for any defender. Sir Alex Ferguson’s biggest regret was not signing Gascoigne.

Ronaldinho
During his prime years is quite simply the best player I have ever seen. He was one of those players who could create something out of nothing and he did this against some of the tightest defences in recent history. Notably THAT goal against Chelsea but a personal favourite is this pass at 1:41 in a tight semi final vs a Milan side with one of the best defences out there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52oP6RDpOhU . Just one more clip for Ronaldinho and this one I still regard as the best individual performance since my time of watching football, the 2005 El Classico http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjabWksidPs I hope you watch those 2 clips as they are well worth a watch.

Cristiano Ronaldo
Not much needs to be said about him, the best United player in recent times and has turned into a goal scoring freak since his move to Madrid. If it wasn’t for Lionel Messi I think we would be talking about Ronaldo being one of the best ever.

Didier Drogba
What a player to lead the line. Dragged Chelsea to the European Cup in 2012 with some immense performances in the knockout stages and final. In his prime I don’ think there is another striker who is more difficult to handle. In terms of "Big Game Players" he was also up there with the best and that surely helps when coming up against the quality of defenders in this draft?

Subs:

Spoiler

Robin Van Persie
Great option to bring off the bench, in fact it feels ridiculous having him on the bench in the first place but the nationality rule has forced my hand. If we are talking about primes, there has been no striker better than him since 2011.

Yaya Toure
Key player for both Barca and City, winning League Titles with both and a European Cup too. Equally effective in the holding midfield role and box-to-box or attacking role. Beast of a midfielder and one City are extremely lucky to have.

Team DanNistelrooy

Team mightberight

Peter Shilton Often overlooked by Gordon Banks as England's best ever goalkeeper, there's every reason to suggest that he was every bit as good and perhaps better than his predecessor.

Silvio Marzolini Silky Argentine who was named left-back of the tournament by the press at World Cup '66. This is what Charlton has to say on him in his all-time XI: "He was really difficult to play against. He wasn’t that fast, but his positioning was so good he didn’t need to be. He was very impressive to everyone at the World Cup in England. He had such good control that it gave him time and space to play the ball away safely. Marzolini could go forward too– so we’ve got another full back who was really comfortable on the ball."

Eric Gerets One of, if not the best right-back of the 80s, but gets overlooked as, safe for a brief spell at Milan, only played in Holland and Belgium. He played a crucial role in getting Belgium to an unprecedented European Championships final, kept Mardona quiet in 1982, and helped his team to fourth place at the World Cup in 1986.

Guiseppe Bergomi One of that famous breed of Italian defenders who would barely give you a sniff. Inter Milan Legend and World Cup Winner who was a part of Italy's backbone in the 1980s.

Ronald Koeman To say this man was a defender comfortable with the ball at his feet would be an understatement. Highest scoring defender of all time while being a great reader of the game.

Obdulio Varela Football's original hard man. Literally dragged underdogs Uruguay to a famous victory over Brazil at the 1950 World Cup. A classic holding midfielder, he could carve out chances from the deep as well.

Paul Breitner A midfield partner for Varela, I'm not sure any opposition would jump at the chance of having to face this duo. Scored in two World Cup Finals, a tireless box-to-box midfielder who would often grab his team by the scruff of his neck. A wonderful passer of the ball too.

Jairzinho The Hurricane. Scored in every game at the 1970 World Cup, and had a ratio of one goal for every two and a half games for Brazil - as an out-and-out winger no less. Silky, lightning-quick - one of the very best of all time.

Hristo Stoichkov Outrageous footballer who provided moments of magic from either the wing or as a striker. On the left in my team, he was a sensational dribbler and crosser of the ball. A true Barcelona great - and that's saying a lot.

Raymond Kopa One of France's best ever players. Slight but agile and almost a phantom-like presence on the pitch, Kopa would have been a seamless fit into the modern game. Will knit together the triumvirate of Stoichkov, Jairzinho and Puskas with his visionary eye for a pass.

Ferenc Puskas This man scored - literally - a goal a game. 84 goals in 85 games for Hungary, and played a major role in Real Madrid's 50s dream team. A deadly one-on-one finisher and blessed with technique which could defy belief. One of, if not the, best striker the world has ever seen.

 

[Fergus' son]

Leaning towards MBR looking at this quite superficially.

 

[Brwned]

I think mightberight might have the most balanced side in the draft so I was expecting him to win no matter who he played against but Dan has a well constructed side himself. The main question is whether Breitner and Varela with the help of Kopa is enough up against top class three-man midfields but in most cases the answer is yes. Gazza, Seedorf and Makelele are an excellent trio but each a step below the best in their position so I reckon he's alright there.

Can see Ronaldo and Drogba causing some real problems for any defence and with no truly aerially dominant player in there, there's bound to be a quickfire goal or two in it for Dan even with limited possession thanks to Ronaldinho's sensational range of passing. Stoichkov is finding it hard against Vogts and Puskas is well-marshalled by two superb centre halves, Kopa's tightly marked by Makelele and so you're looking to Jairzinho to make the difference against a very solid left back in Camacho.

In the end I see Breitner and Varela making the difference in that middle of the park, they're dominating possession and making more meaningful contributions than Gazza and Seedorf and eventually the Eastern European left-footed are going to sneak a couple of goals and kill the game off.

 

[mightberight]

Claude Makelele was a good player but nowhere near as complete a player as Paul Breitner, nor a leader like Varela. I think my midfield, supported by Koeman, should be able to handle him whilst isolate Ronaldinho, Gascoigne and Ronaldo who aren't exactly the most disciplined of players without the ball.

 

[Theon]

Went for Dan, I love a team playing with wingers and his flanks are just ridiculous.

 

[Brwned]

The thing is how often can Koeman really step into midfield and take those risks with Drogba and Ronaldo waiting up top to isolate Bergomi and Marzolini and hit you on the break?

 

[mightberight]

The thing is how often can Koeman really step into midfield and take those risks with Drogba and Ronaldo waiting up top to isolate Bergomi and Marzolini and hit you on the break?

I'd expect Varela to sit deeper when he does so, particularly as the man could play centre-back and by all accounts was a gargantuan six foot in those days.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Two good teams but I honestly think that my attack will be too strong for MBR's defence. Drogba can bully near enough any centre half and especially Koeman in this case, then Ronaldo and Ronaldinho will have too much for their respective fullbacks. Fair enough MBR has a good attack here too - as does any team in this draft - but I will have more of a chance of handling his attack with McGrath and Nesta, one of the best defenders in this draft.

MBR mentioned Makelele's limitations but all I am asking him to do is sweep up and keep things simple like he did so brilliantly well for Real and Chelsea. He is purely in there to give the freedom for Seedorf/Gazza/Ronaldo/Ronaldinho, in my opinion nobody is better equipped to do that.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Voted

 

[mightberight]

Drogba is nowhere near Puskas' class, and I don't see how Gazza, McGrath, Makelele have as much a legacy as the likes of Kopa, Bergomi and Varela. While you have a good team, your real strength is that it's pretty much all post-90s - people with limited knowledge know they are some of the decade's finest, yet will not know enough to know many of mine.

Not sour grapes, just an observation - I'll expect you to win this.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Drogba is nowhere near Puskas' class, and I don't see how Gazza, McGrath, Makelele have as much a legacy as the likes of Kopa, Bergomi and Varela. While you have a good team, your real strength is that it's pretty much all post-90s - people with limited knowledge know they are some of the decade's finest, yet will not know enough to know many of mine.

Not sour grapes, just an observation - I'll expect you to win this.

As I said, 2 good teams. Not claiming Drogba to be in Puskas' class, with the latter being an all time great - this is reflected in me picking up Drogba late on and you choosing Puskas early on. Drogba is still a class act and one of those strikers who you'd fancy to perform on the big stage, against the best defenders which is surely a plus in this draft? His performances in last year's Champions League are a good example of that. He is also a selfless player and occupies defenders which would allow the likes of Ronaldo/Ronaldinho/Gazza to have more space to work their magic

 

[mightberight]

I wouldn't be so sure of Ronaldinho dominating his left flank. Gerets his history of keeping a young Maradona quiet, no less.

I think having Breitner and Varela in the middle allows me to specifically ask of Marozlini and Gerets to turn Ronaldinho and Ronaldo inside - nullifying a lot of Drogba's threat from crosses, and I imagine the Breitner/Varela combo has every chance of stifling them.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

I wouldn't be so sure of Ronaldinho dominating his left flank. Gerets his history of keeping a young Maradona quiet, no less.

I think having Breitner and Varela in the middle allows me to specifically ask of Marozlini and Gerets to turn Ronaldinho and Ronaldo inside - nullifying a lot of Drogba's threat from crosses, and I imagine the Breitner/Varela combo has every chance of stifling them.

Of course Ronaldinho won't be deployed as a pure out an out winger, he will be roaming across the pitch. In his prime, nobody could stop him, even the top defences - see the videos I posted in his profile

 

[mightberight]

Of course Ronaldinho won't be deployed as a pure out an out winger, he will be roaming across the pitch. In his prime, nobody could stop him, even the top defences - see the videos I posted in his profile

Right, and watch videos and testimonies on Breitner on Varela etc. - they are two of the finest midfielders of all time and certainly stopped some of their decades' best players. We're all dealing in hypotheticals here.

Edit: Just watched Ronaldinho pass in Barca v Milan game. Majestic, I remember it and I agree. But he shook off a Gattuso who was too rash jumping in with the tackle. Could Breitner and Varela shackled him better? There is a strong likelihood.

 

[Gio]

MBR's XI is wonderfully crafted. Everything Koeman lacks, Bergomi has and vice versa, and it's the same story in midfield. In fairness Dan's team is well balanced as well with everyone playing in their optimal roles. The difference for me is Seedorf who despite enjoying a decorated career at the top was never amongst the very best midfielders in the world to the same extent that Breitner, Kopa and Gascoigne were.

 

[NM]

I'm surprised at how Dan is winning right now - MBR has to be a big favorite. Great side. I suspect modern player bias is hurting MBr here. Dan has a great team too - I just think MBR is better balanced, and his "names" are being underrated.

 

[mightberight]

I'm surprised at how Dan is winning right now - MBR has to be a big favorite. Great side. I suspect modern player bias is hurting MBr here. Dan has a great team too - I just think MBR is better balanced, and his "names" are being underrated.

Managed to pull it back justifiably I think - into the final stretch ...

 

[antohan]

I'm struggling with this one. Two superb sides I had down as early favourites or dark horses. No obvious flaws anywhere...

I do think MBRs midfield will be stronger than Dan's, but Dan's flanks look like having more joy to me.

Like Dan's CB pair better as well, two players I have a lot of time for, while Bergomi and Koeman never struck me as much more than solid/good, well paired though. But I also rate Puskas much much higher than Drogba. That said, the players feeding them are the right ones for both, if they swapped sides they would both be worse off.

Will sit it out and see if anyone does something suicidal Who are MBR's subs? I can see Dan's subs giving him a boost later on.

 

[Moby]

Dan has a top class back 4 and wings with a powerful striker, but MBR would surely have the control in midfield and for the that could turn the game. Both McGrath and Nesta can handle Puskas on their day, but Puskas can easily drop back and shoot from distance and Cech doesn't really inspire a lot of confidence against the left boot of the Hungarian. MBR looks solid throughout and over 90 minutes I can surely see his team dictating the play much more than the opposition.

 

[NM]

Dan has a top class back 4 and wings with a powerful striker, but MBR would surely have the control in midfield and for the that could turn the game. Both McGrath and Nesta can handle Puskas on their day, but Puskas can easily drop back and shoot from distance and Cech doesn't really inspire a lot of confidence against the left boot of the Hungarian. MBR looks solid throughout and over 90 minutes I can surely see his team dictating the play much more than the opposition.

Not voting ?

 

[Moby]

Not voting ?

Too close at the moment.

 

[NM]

Interesting that Theon and I went different sides on this one!

 

[Theon]

Ayee, and on Jake's today.

I love great wingplay and Dan has the best flanks out of any team in the tournament, quality at fullback as well as Ronaldinho/Ronaldo.

Nesta/McGrath is beautiful as well and I really rate Makelele. If he manages to get through then should update that centre mid (never liked Gazza personally, Seedorf is a legend but there are better CM's) and a replacement for Drogba, but there is so many strikers to choose from that wont be a problem. The rest of his team is great IMO.

 

[antohan]

Ayee, and on Jake's today.

I love great wingplay and Dan has the best flanks out of any team in the tournament, quality at fullback as well as Ronaldinho/Ronaldo.

Nesta/McGrath is beautiful as well and I really rate Makelele. If he manages to get through then should update that centre mid (never liked Gazza personally, Seedorf is a legend but there are better CM's) and a replacement for Drogba, but there is so many strikers to choose from that wont be a problem. The rest of his team is great IMO.

When you put it that way, I actually feel like going with MBR. But Dan has an interesting option in swapping Dutch players and bringing on Yaya and van Persie.

 

[Theon]

Do you mean in terms of having a clear 'weak area', whereas MBR doesn't? If so I agree that his side is alot more solid, but for me Dan's back four is better and the flanks are incredible. I think Drogba wasn't the best choice and personally think Gazza went too early, but that might just be me underrating him because I don't like the player.

How would you rate Gascoigne?

I think of all the teams I have seen Dan has the clearest road to improvement in picking his reinforcements, if he manages to fend off MBR.

 

[Gio]

Considering Gascoigne's prime he was probably in the top 3 midfielders in Europe circa 1990. A team of the tournament from Italia '90 would likely have included him and Matthaus in central midfield. Even post-injury he was still England's best midfielder until 1996 or so, and he married traditional central midfield playmaking skills with the ball-carrying ability of the nimblest of no10s.

Still, I can see MBR gaining control of the midfield. Kopa sits alongside Platini and Zidane as one of the top three greatest French players of all time and he was as good as any European in the mid-to-late 1950s. Breitner had so much to his game and I know little about Varela but presumably he offers everything Makelele did and probably more.

In terms of the defences, they're both good and I'd probably go 'Shilton; Vogts, Bergomi, Nesta, Camacho/Marzolini' if forced to choose a select.

 

[antohan]

Do you mean in terms of having a clear 'weak area', whereas MBR doesn't? If so I agree that his side is alot more solid, but for me Dan's back four is better and the flanks are incredible. I think Drogba wasn't the best choice and personally think Gazza went too early, but that might just be me underrating him because I don't like the player.

How would you rate Gascoigne?

I think of all the teams I have seen Dan has the clearest road to improvement in picking his reinforcements, if he manages to fend off MBR.

Not precisely weak, but definitely weaker.

I was considering Gascoigne, not as a fourth pick though, thought I could get him later. He was my back up plan if I couldn't get Henry: shifting Iniesta to the left and Gascoigne through the middle. But I did end up with what I wanted which was the flexibility Henry afforded me in being able to take up a second striker position alongside Erico or act as the frontman if Erico bombed. 6th/7th round pick at best in my book, but with Dan prioritising more recent players I can see why he went for it so early. Not many better in recent times.

 

[Theon]

Yeah, reading his write up he obviously likes him as a player as well. I'd always get Keane early for that reason, you want to pick your favourites.

I probably underrate him though, never liked him.

 

[antohan]

I know little about Varela but presumably he offers everything Makelele did and probably more.

He had a cannon on his right foot for starters. Him and Breitner... and Koeman... the long rangers would be Cech?

feck it, I've made up my mind right now.

In terms of the defences, they're both good and I'd probably go 'Shilton; Vogts, Bergomi, Nesta, Camacho/Marzolini' if forced to choose a select.

Once you allow for the nationality rule you would probably pick Dan's CBs and MBRs fullbacks and keeper though.

 

[Fergus' son]

Kopa (and to an extent Didi) had a relatively unsuccessful period at Madrid which may have affected how he is remembered.

 

[Gio]

I'm not sure if it was that unsuccessful. He was fundamental to Madrid's European Cup triumph in 1957/58 and with the help of a strong World Cup went on to win the Ballon D'Or that year. There were a couple of issues for Kopa at Madrid though as you say. First, the team were heavily suited to attacking down Francisco Gento's left flank. Second, he was at times marginalised to the right wing (not sure if that was after Puskas' arrival, bringing Di Stefano slightly deeper?). Never blessed with a lot of pace, he was far more threatening as an inside forward/right.

 

[Fergus' son]

I'm not sure if it was that unsuccessful. He was fundamental to Madrid's European Cup triumph in 1957/58 and with the help of a strong World Cup went on to win the Ballon D'Or that year. There were a couple of issues for Kopa at Madrid though as you say. First, the team were heavily suited to attacking down Francisco Gento's left flank. Second, he was at times marginalised to the right wing (not sure if that was after Puskas' arrival, bringing Di Stefano slightly deeper?). Never blessed with a lot of pace, he was far more threatening as an inside forward/right.

Yeah, relatively unsuccessful, as in I'm not certain we saw the best of him or if he was utilised to the fullest at Madrid. I think it was the right wing/de Stefano thing that was the issue...

Raises another interesting point. I was advised not to draft certain players because they have a history of personality clashes with other top characters, haven't really seen this type of thing brought up though...

 

[antohan]

Second, he was at times marginalised to the right wing (not sure if that was after Puskas' arrival, bringing Di Stefano slightly deeper?).

Correct.

 

[antohan]

This has been really quiet for ages...

 

[Balu]

This has been really quiet for ages...

Yes, I really have no idea who to vote for. Maybe more of a discussion would help me (and maybe others?) pick. I probably stay out of it, if nothing changes. I really can't decide.

 

[Gio]

Raises another interesting point. I was advised not to draft certain players because they have a history of personality clashes with other top characters, haven't really seen this type of thing brought up though...

Yeah I think it's a factor, albeit one which the nationality rule overcomes to some extent given many clashes are between players of the same country.

 

[antohan]

Yes, I really have no idea who to vote for. Maybe more of a discussion would help me (and maybe others?) pick. I probably stay out of it, if nothing changes. I really can't decide.

Why can't you decide? Anything you have in mind which can help trigger a discussion?

 

[antohan]

Yeah I think it's a factor, albeit one which the nationality rule overcomes to some extent given many clashes are between players of the same country.

Indeed. Still, while not a personality clash, one issue brought up on the thread was Cristiano, Ronaldinho and Gascoigne potentially not working well together because they would all want the ball all the time.

Sounds counterintuitive at first (you want players who want the ball!) but there may be some legs to it, particularly regarding the balance between the wingers. I'm surprised no one picked it up or started banging on about it here.

 

[antohan]

Once you allow for the nationality rule you would probably pick Dan's CBs and MBRs fullbacks and keeper though.

Only just realised Dan had Vogts, not MBR, so I got it all wrong here. MBR has the better attacking fullbacks, but defensively Dan's are better and with neither winger tracking back much that helps no end.

 

[Gio]

Some considerable quality opening up here for the reinforcement stage presuming MBR doesn't make a late comeback.