All time British/Irish fantasy draft, S-F: Edgar vs Skizzo
- Thread starter crappycraperson
- Start date
You've completely misunerstood me there mate. Keane and Murdoch don't have to make those lung-bursting runs towards your penalty area any more as we're leading the game. They're holding our shape, closing down passing lanes, ready to win back possession.
On the second bolded point, not at all. You've just stated that Scholes will be moving slightly up but still playing fairly deep, presumably near Stiles and your defence. There's two scenarios here:
1) Your attacking midfield is pushing up and trying to get in positions where they can threaten our defence, and there's a chasm between them and Scholes. You're effectively playing long-ball tactics against an exceptionally well-organised and well-manned defence.
2) They're dropping deeper to link with Scholes, and they're effectively knocking the ball around in front of our defensive and midfield lines.
With your lack of goalscorers, and our brilliant defence and robust midfield, we can cope with that all day.
Aha, you reinforce my point.
1) There is no one better to play a long ball game than Scholes. His DLP profile was imo far effective in controlling the game than his partnership with Keane.
2) With your midfielders 'holding a defensive shape', it just makes it easy for Scholes to connect with my midfielders.
3) Scholes is not there to play short passes to dropping deep midfielders. He will split any defence and get the ball straight to the attack. I'm playing Scholes at his best against you protecting your lead. With no one to pressurize him, he will simple be devastating!
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And a query on John Charles at Centre Back. Any link to his performances in that position? I can only find a line in wiki, and all his Italian days seem to point to his forward position.
I'm not disputing anything here. Just trying to find out more.
I'm not disputing anything here. Just trying to find out more.
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=43991/
http://www.serieaweekly.com/2011/02/legend-of-calcio-john-charles.html
Bit more information in those links
I lost the lead at the beginning of the game. Now it's time to take back what's rightfully mine. @crappycraperson can you please update this in OP?
Road to recovery: Countering opponents lead
This plays right into my best creative weapon in Scholes. With not much pressure on the ball, he will be devastating henceforth. few players are better at dictating gameplay when they have time and space on the ball and Scholes will be in his element here. with Stiles to take care of whatever threat they can drum up without compromising their lead, Scholes will wreck havoc here.
Attacking Strength:
No disrespect to Law, but in this match George Best is the top attacking threat and Scholes is the best creative threat and both are in my team.
Dissecting my opponents midfield:
The spoiler above is the team sheet in which Auld-Murdoch were at their prime. Compared to the way they are played today, we see quite significant differences.
- It's not exactly the famed Auld-Murdoch partnership, but a Keane-Murdoch in the middle. Auld has far more responsibilities supporting Law as he does not have the comfort of 2 attackers in front. Though all of Lennox-Auld-Murdoch are on the pitch, I'm sure their famed partnership would still be broken due to differing responsibilities of Auld.
- Johnstone vs Beckham. Two completely different players. Johnstone was a player who relied on speed, balance and dribbling to beat defenders before cutting back to Murdoch/Auld or scoring himself. Here we have Beckham, whose strength is in his accurate passing/crossing. Totally different style of play and there is also no Charles to be at the other end of Beckham's crosses.
Not saying this would be a disaster, but it now becomes more of a "I believe this could function perfectly" rather than "a proven midfield with players in their respective positions".
The individual players talents cannot be questioned, but the overall strategy can be. I really don't see the midfield functioning to the extent of Lisbon Lions success, not even close.
My Attack:
Providing, I attach through my right,
- A unpressurised Scholes ill be pinging accurate balls to Best. Perfectly capable of that.
- George Best will be doing his genius thing. No offence to Dunne, but Best is a better and he will come out on top. Perfectly capable of that. Dunne will need constantly support of Moore/Keane to counter the threat. (This reduces the effectiveness of Moore on his other areas)
- They have no 'Makelele' type DM's on Gazza. The part time effort of Keane (see point above) ensures that Gazza will run into free spaces when we attack. (Murdoch will also need to keep a eye on cutting in Brady).
- With Scholes orchestrating and the split attention of Moore/Keane, I'm pretty sure that Gazza/Hughes can fancy themselves against Charles. There is definitely a way into the score sheet for me. It is inevitable.
Possession:
Even with a holding strategy, they will find it difficult to retain possession. With Brady, Gazza and Hughes pressurizing them they will be hard pressed to retain the ball for any length of time. On the flip side, when I have the ball the relatively unpressurised Scholes and Stiles will have the time and space to move the ball around. And they have very hard working midfielders in Brady and Gazza to support them in retaining possession. Give players of this calibre possession, it will just pile on pressure...precisely what I need. My strike will be swift and deadly as mentioned in previous point.
Road to recovery: Countering opponents lead
This plays right into my best creative weapon in Scholes. With not much pressure on the ball, he will be devastating henceforth. few players are better at dictating gameplay when they have time and space on the ball and Scholes will be in his element here. with Stiles to take care of whatever threat they can drum up without compromising their lead, Scholes will wreck havoc here.
Attacking Strength:
No disrespect to Law, but in this match George Best is the top attacking threat and Scholes is the best creative threat and both are in my team.
Dissecting my opponents midfield:
The spoiler above is the team sheet in which Auld-Murdoch were at their prime. Compared to the way they are played today, we see quite significant differences.
- It's not exactly the famed Auld-Murdoch partnership, but a Keane-Murdoch in the middle. Auld has far more responsibilities supporting Law as he does not have the comfort of 2 attackers in front. Though all of Lennox-Auld-Murdoch are on the pitch, I'm sure their famed partnership would still be broken due to differing responsibilities of Auld.
- Johnstone vs Beckham. Two completely different players. Johnstone was a player who relied on speed, balance and dribbling to beat defenders before cutting back to Murdoch/Auld or scoring himself. Here we have Beckham, whose strength is in his accurate passing/crossing. Totally different style of play and there is also no Charles to be at the other end of Beckham's crosses.
Not saying this would be a disaster, but it now becomes more of a "I believe this could function perfectly" rather than "a proven midfield with players in their respective positions".
The individual players talents cannot be questioned, but the overall strategy can be. I really don't see the midfield functioning to the extent of Lisbon Lions success, not even close.
My Attack:
Providing, I attach through my right,
- A unpressurised Scholes ill be pinging accurate balls to Best. Perfectly capable of that.
- George Best will be doing his genius thing. No offence to Dunne, but Best is a better and he will come out on top. Perfectly capable of that. Dunne will need constantly support of Moore/Keane to counter the threat. (This reduces the effectiveness of Moore on his other areas)
- They have no 'Makelele' type DM's on Gazza. The part time effort of Keane (see point above) ensures that Gazza will run into free spaces when we attack. (Murdoch will also need to keep a eye on cutting in Brady).
- With Scholes orchestrating and the split attention of Moore/Keane, I'm pretty sure that Gazza/Hughes can fancy themselves against Charles. There is definitely a way into the score sheet for me. It is inevitable.
Possession:
Even with a holding strategy, they will find it difficult to retain possession. With Brady, Gazza and Hughes pressurizing them they will be hard pressed to retain the ball for any length of time. On the flip side, when I have the ball the relatively unpressurised Scholes and Stiles will have the time and space to move the ball around. And they have very hard working midfielders in Brady and Gazza to support them in retaining possession. Give players of this calibre possession, it will just pile on pressure...precisely what I need. My strike will be swift and deadly as mentioned in previous point.
Best AM=Charlton?
Like chester, am not voting here but would probably have gone for you here if I was. Think the scholes to best combination would have won it for you.
In this game. Sorry!
I think you and Chester should vote. There's always the trust on not voting for self interest, but it is also disadvantage to the players in this draft if supporters don't vote. Don't mind if it's with or against me.
I lost the lead at the beginning of the game. Now it's time to take back what's rightfully mine. @crappycraperson can you please update this in OP?
Road to recovery: Countering opponents lead
This plays right into my best creative weapon in Scholes. With not much pressure on the ball, he will be devastating henceforth. few players are better at dictating gameplay when they have time and space on the ball and Scholes will be in his element here. with Stiles to take care of whatever threat they can drum up without compromising their lead, Scholes will wreck havoc here.
Attacking Strength:
No disrespect to Law, but in this match George Best is the top attacking threat and Scholes is the best creative threat and both are in my team.
Dissecting my opponents midfield:
The spoiler above is the team sheet in which Auld-Murdoch were at their prime. Compared to the way they are played today, we see quite significant differences.
- It's not exactly the famed Auld-Murdoch partnership, but a Keane-Murdoch in the middle. Auld has far more responsibilities supporting Law as he does not have the comfort of 2 attackers in front. Though all of Lennox-Auld-Murdoch are on the pitch, I'm sure their famed partnership would still be broken due to differing responsibilities of Auld.
- Johnstone vs Beckham. Two completely different players. Johnstone was a player who relied on speed, balance and dribbling to beat defenders before cutting back to Murdoch/Auld or scoring himself. Here we have Beckham, whose strength is in his accurate passing/crossing. Totally different style of play and there is also no Charles to be at the other end of Beckham's crosses.
Not saying this would be a disaster, but it now becomes more of a "I believe this could function perfectly" rather than "a proven midfield with players in their respective positions".
The individual players talents cannot be questioned, but the overall strategy can be. I really don't see the midfield functioning to the extent of Lisbon Lions success, not even close.
My Attack:
Providing, I attach through my right,
- A unpressurised Scholes ill be pinging accurate balls to Best. Perfectly capable of that.
- George Best will be doing his genius thing. No offence to Dunne, but Best is a better and he will come out on top. Perfectly capable of that. Dunne will need constantly support of Moore/Keane to counter the threat. (This reduces the effectiveness of Moore on his other areas)
- They have no 'Makelele' type DM's on Gazza. The part time effort of Keane (see point above) ensures that Gazza will run into free spaces when we attack. (Murdoch will also need to keep a eye on cutting in Brady).
- With Scholes orchestrating and the split attention of Moore/Keane, I'm pretty sure that Gazza/Hughes can fancy themselves against Charles. There is definitely a way into the score sheet for me. It is inevitable.
Possession:
Even with a holding strategy, they will find it difficult to retain possession. With Brady, Gazza and Hughes pressurizing them they will be hard pressed to retain the ball for any length of time. On the flip side, when I have the ball the relatively unpressurised Scholes and Stiles will have the time and space to move the ball around. And they have very hard working midfielders in Brady and Gazza to support them in retaining possession. Give players of this calibre possession, it will just pile on pressure...precisely what I need. My strike will be swift and deadly as mentioned in previous point.
There's so much here to disagree with that I barely know where to start
Where on earth have you got this 'park the bus tactic' from? I explicitly said that our tactics wouldn't radically change despite our emphatic early lead. The slight difference being that Keane and Murdoch would be more focussed on defensive shape than surging into your penalty area. "Focussed on defensive shape" DOES NOT EQUAL camping out on the edge of our penalty area inviting pressure.
I think its a good rule, I have already considered what the best scenario for me will be in the final. Its hard to know if you want one team to win or think they really should win so to eliminate bias its just best not to vote.
Attacking Strength: You still haven't addressed the lack of goals in your team. Law and Lennox both averaged a goal every game or better in their best seasons. Best hit a goal every 2 games as his best ever, Hughes didn't even manage that as a lifelong striker. He's an incredible weak link at this stage of the draft, and his plus points are completely negated by Charles at centre back. In what possible scenario is he going to outmuscle John Charles?
There's so much here to disagree with that I barely know where to start
Where on earth have you got this 'park the bus tactic' from? I explicitly said that our tactics wouldn't radically change despite our emphatic early lead. The slight difference being that Keane and Murdoch would be more focussed on defensive shape than surging into your penalty area. "Focussed on defensive shape" DOES NOT EQUAL camping out on the edge of our penalty area inviting pressure.
The fight is on. @Annahnomoss can confirm how much of a annoying prick I can be!
I got the tactic from the same place where you got the Stiles and Auld will cancel each other from. I made it clear that there is no man marking happening. I think you'll suffer more lack of productivity from Auld that I'll do from Stiles.
it's never going to be a one vs one in these games, right? As I explained in my gain back advantage post, it'll be a combo from Gazza/Hughes that will get me back on par.
@Pat_Mustard is anyone marking scholes or putting pressure on him?
Noone's man-marking him. There'll be plenty of pressure on him. There's no passengers defensively in our front line. Law and Lennox were hard, selfess workers. Auld will be relentless in closing down Stiles and Scholes, and far more effective than Brady, Best or Gazza will be when Keane and Murdoch are in possession.
Ahh okay, was just wondering if there was any specific plans to deal with him since imo if you can shut him down the game is won for you guys.
I forgot EAP having given as a keeper, thats a massive handicap as well.
The fight is on. @Annahnomoss can confirm how much of a annoying prick I can be!
I got the tactic from the same place where you got the Stiles and Auld will cancel each other from. I made it clear that there is no man marking happening. I think you'll suffer more lack of productivity from Auld that I'll do from Stiles.
it's never going to be a one vs one in these games, right? As I explained in my gain back advantage post, it'll be a combo from Gazza/Hughes that will get me back on par.
You're the one that brought up Stiles cancelling Auld out ffs
. I sincerely doubt that we'll struggle for productivity with Law (46 in 42 games 1963/64) and Lennox (44 in 44 games 1967/68). Add Gazza and Hughes' totals together in their best seasons and they'd barely come close to one of those guys. I'm confident Moore and Charles will cope.Aye, it factors into the disadvantage he's got in terms defensively, whilst also possesing far less of a goal threat. He's got a bunch of very talented and creative players in the middle of the park, but ultimately they lack the cutting edge to do anything here.
Why? He is not Gordon Banks, but when he played in his prime he was solid between the posts. He still is the best Irish all time XI keeper from what I see. Why is he a 'handicap'?
You're the one that brought up Stiles cancelling Auld out ffs
Well, I just mentioned that as a dedicated DM, Stiles will keep a eye on Auld. None of the man-marking stuff came from me. Here's my quote;
No room for misinterpretations.
On the other parts of your post,
Sorry, but that ddoesn't make sense to me now. 1) Lennox is not even on the same side as Scholes. If he comes in all the way this side to engage Scholes, I fail to see the 'attacking threat' you seem to indicate.
Auld taking care of both Stiles and Scholes is just
Not that I want to mention it yet again, Stiles was the guy who marked out Eusebio. Again, not that he is in a man marking mission, but I thin he can handle Auld without man-marking.My memory of him is being a very good shot stopper but terrible at commanding his area and dealing with high balls.
Sorry, a guy like that doesn't make a all time XI. He made EPL team of the year twice too.
Definitely would have been successful, if there was so obvious a flaw.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-myth-around-shay-given.277912/
Googled " shay given and howlers" and this came up. Sums up what I was going to say pretty accurately.I'll just leave this here.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-myth-around-shay-given.277912/
Why does it matter? As we take 'players at best' in this draft, surely 'great save after great save' should be the one in consideration? Again, he was playing for City at the time of the thread. The usual bias should be factored in.
Don't need to. I won't even watch it. But his is not as per 'playing at best' assumption we have in this draft.
Poor attempt to throw dirt on my players. I've stayed above this till now. Too bad you've to resort to this.
Just to come back to this beauty of a post...
are you seriously suggesting that Moore, Charles, Keane and Murdoch will struggle with Brady, Gazza and Hughes pressing them? Scholes and Stiles "relatively untroubled" wih Auld hounding them, and fecking Gazza frightening Roy Keane into giving the ball away
are you seriously suggesting that Moore, Charles, Keane and Murdoch will struggle with Brady, Gazza and Hughes pressing them
? Scholes and Stiles "relatively untroubled" wih Auld hounding them, and fecking Gazza frightening Roy Keane into giving the ball away That is true as well. Anyway was just considering the pros and cons of both teams.
It's a light hearted video to highlight a high level blunder, relax...no need to get so worked up about it.
Although your "Best This - my player" list of why you would win the game was ridiculous, we didn't get all bent out of shape about it
And you've downplayed almost all of our team, tbf...
It's a light hearted video to highlight a high level blunder, relax...no need to get so worked up about it.
Although your "Best This - my player" list of why you would win the game was ridiculous, we didn't get all bent out of shape about it
And you've downplayed almost all of our team, tbf...
Not quite, there's a difference. My comparison was at players at best, and where I thought I had a advantage. Feel free to argue against. I never pointed out individual bad performances, and games etc till now.
No worries, I'm not worked up, just drunk
Not quite, there's a difference. My comparison was at players at best, and where I thought I had a advantage. Feel free to argue against. I never pointed out individual bad performances, and games etc till now.
No worries, I'm not worked up, just drunk
I'm just giving you a hard time
Pat's here now and I don't want to gang up...So I'm going to let the two drunkards duke it out...much more fun for the both of you, and the neutrals
I'm just giving you a hard time
Pat's here now and I don't want to gang up...So I'm going to let the two drunkards duke it out...much more fun for the both of you, and the neutrals
Pat drunk scares me
He just has 1 player upfront + a attacking winger against my back 4. Cohen is sorely underestimated here.
And, Given is good enough for that kind of threat!
Where is Paul Scholes?
Not too convinced by the Stiles and Gascoigne core against Murdoch-Keane-Auld trio. Really don't see the point in sacrificing Scholes for an extra striker considering Skizzo/Pat's strength in midfield. Neither do they have a central defense which could be possibly exploited by a strike duo. I understand that Owen or Hughes alone isn't all that impressive or threatening but it is in no way worth sacrificing Scholes imo.
On Thursday I asked him what the hell he was doing not bidding on Law, he told me this was his plan. I replied: "Mental, absolutely fecking mental. If you really want two upfront then you would drop Gazza for Scholes in midfield"
Edgar's reply:
Good to see you guys have knocked some sense back into him, I was really worried for his sanity.
On Thursday I asked him what the hell he was doing not bidding on Law, he told me this was his plan. I replied: "Mental, absolutely fecking mental. If you really want two upfront then you would drop Gazza for Scholes in midfield"
Edgar's reply:
Good to see you guys have knocked some sense back into him, I was really worried for his sanity.
Good, you can't anyway. It's a rule that you can't vote in games that determine your next opponent, a semi clearly being such a game.
Feck anto. Get back to WW
Yes, as a DM, he'll mitigate Auld, but there are other other ways of containing a player other than man marking.
Auld is the primary threat to me other than Law. Lennox and Murdoch are only secondary. As for wing threats are concerned Best outranks Lennox by a margin. No contest there. Any Dm worth his salt would prevent Auld from creating plays and linking midfield to attack and Stiles is so much better that that than most DM's.
Unless you are saying Auld is man marking Stiles when off possession
Yes, as a DM, he'll mitigate Auld, but there are other other ways of containing a player other than man marking.
Auld is the primary other than Law threat to me . Lennox and Murdoch are only secondary. As for wing threats are concerned Best outranks Lennox by a margin. No contest there. Any Dm worth his salt would prevent Auld from creating plays and linking midfield to attack and Stiles is so much better that that than most DM's.
Unless you are saying Auld is man marking Stiles when off possession
Humour me. How will a player with Stiles' skill set mitigate Auld without man marking?
You really believe Lennox to be a 'secondary threat'?
44 goals in 44 games, with 2 of his 3 most prolific assisters on the pitch, and he's a secondary threat There's so much here to disagree with that I barely know where to start
Where on earth have you got this 'park the bus tactic' from?
Annah may have something to say about that