All managers post Fergie weren't good enough

[M Bison]

While the problems amount to more than one thing you’re basically saying the role of manager is worth next to nothing. Of course we’d be in a better position with a better manager.

No im saying 1 person isnt the difference between success and failure and im saying that the manager cant do it all on his own. I believe Klopp and/or Pep would have failed if they were here, i've no proof (none of us have either way), its just my view.

However i also believe if Klopp had been backed in the market as our managers have, the scousers would have invested if far better and given Klopp a much stronger chance of success, but the infrastructure and foundations are in place to support that.

I think thats where the Glazers have fallen down, we've needed greater investment in the non-playing side to enable success on the pitch, other clubs have that in place already which allows the manager to focus. EtH is heavily criticised for his signings and paying over the odds, but i cant believe any club (or business) would allow that level of freedom and so whilst its easy to lay the blame at the door of EtH, I think its further up the chain thats the issue and until we resolve that, we're just setting our managers up to fail.

 

[Lentwood]

It does also come down to pressure though and unrealistic ambitions.

I am still absolutely convinced that OGS and Jose were on the right lines in their first 24-months at the club.

Both put decent foundations in-place and had us finishing second and then both made the same kind of ill-thought out signings that have haunted the post-SAF era.

Imagine OGS' final season, for example. Instead of Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho, we spent that £110m on Rice / Haaland (or similar...doesn't have to be those two specifically)...could all have been so different.

See Jose with the likes of Alexis Sanchez. Rushing. Making poor decisions because of the pressure to challenge City.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

This ignores his 3rd season at Chelsea and his catastrophic showing in the Champions League against PSG with 10 men the previous season.

And it ignores the general decline in him following Real Madrid.

And it ignores what he's done after United

No one is saying the managers are the main problem, but they've been a huge problem too.

Nobody has done anything remotely noteworthy at United that really enhanced their career since SAF. No players or managers, the common denominator is United which suggests United is the problem.

I wasn’t forgetting Jose’s final Chelsea season, but he won the league shortly before joining United. We were on an upward trajectory with him until Woodward turned off the tap. Glazers being very happy with 2nd. United failed him because 2nd was good enough. When Klopp was pushing for top spot, he got the likes of VVD and Allison; Jose got an under 20 unproven Dalot and Fred. Load of bollox

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Klopp said the Liverpool scouts wouldn't get out of his ear about Mo Salah, which led to Klopp doing his homework and then deciding to sign him. He was initially skeptical but after watching a lot of games gave the green light.

It's not like Klopp said this lad is rubbish and I don't want him, and Liverpool signed him anyway. He said he wasn't sure about Salah's physicality but then was eventually convinced after watching games and meeting him.

It's not a bad thing to be skeptical toward potential transfers. You have to be close to 100% sure about what you're getting. If you just rubber stamp what scouts recommend then that's when money starts being wasted.

That wasn’t a dig at Klopp.

I’m saying that Klopp at United would not necessarily be the same Klopp that we see at Liverpool because he would have less support in multiple areas including squad buiding. What people at United would have been “in Klopps ear” banging on about how good salah was ? Remind me again who would be negotiating contacts and transfer fees and offloads players at United ?

Some fans seem to act like “that manager there would be perfect at United” when there’s more to suggest that the dysfunction under Woodward has undermined managers and players. To what degree is the only question , but it’s not minor.

Liverpool signings look more organised, planned and better negotiated. You can see many many United signings that were just ones that could be done, moreso then them being part of any plan. Mata, Di Maria, zlatan, Pogba , sanchez, Ronaldo … The list goes on where United make signings of players they can get or players who want to leave their clubs and we are happy to take them cause even Woodward can’t f**k up throwing stupid money and over paying for players.

If Liverpool had ETH , they’d of either gotten Anthony for 35 million or theyd of had “scouts banging down his door with a better alternative”. Either way, the impact would not of been as bad and they’d find it easier to sell him as they wouldn’t have given him a stupid contract.

United offloading bad buys has been a huge issue that every new manager has had to just deal with. Klopp and Pep dong have that because their clubs get rid of who is not needed, not wanted or players who want to go. Pogba wanted to leave for 4 of the 6 years he was at United, mostly to not make Woodward look like a clown and cause he had a huge social media following. Remember when Woodward said “we had the most amount of traffic to the website ever” after Pogba joined ?

That ties in with what LVG stated that basically United is not a conventional football club like the major clubs of Europe and that the commercial interests do influence the football side in w

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

No im saying 1 person isnt the difference between success and failure and im saying that the manager cant do it all on his own. I believe Klopp and/or Pep would have failed if they were here, i've no proof (none of us have either way), its just my view.

However i also believe if Klopp had been backed in the market as our managers have, the scousers would have invested if far better and given Klopp a much stronger chance of success, but the infrastructure and foundations are in place to support that.

I think thats where the Glazers have fallen down, we've needed greater investment in the non-playing side to enable success on the pitch, other clubs have that in place already which allows the manager to focus. EtH is heavily criticised for his signings and paying over the odds, but i cant believe any club (or business) would allow that level of freedom and so whilst its easy to lay the blame at the door of EtH, I think its further up the chain thats the issue and until we resolve that, we're just setting our managers up to fail.

Exactly

 

[Marwood]

What does this mean exactly? Moyes took a title winning squad and converted it into placing 7th. He specifically showed he wasn't capable of producing top four finishes.

It wasn't that straightforward. Its not like that team reverted back to being a title winning team once Moyes left.

Agree with OP, they've all been a letdown.

I think if they were all honest they'd admit the job got to them. That the pressure influenced their decisions, actions. Made them go down roads they shouldn't have done.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

It does also come down to pressure though and unrealistic ambitions.

I am still absolutely convinced that OGS and Jose were on the right lines in their first 24-months at the club.

Both put decent foundations in-place and had us finishing second and then both made the same kind of ill-thought out signings that have haunted the post-SAF era.

Imagine OGS' final season, for example. Instead of Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho, we spent that £110m on Rice / Haaland (or similar...doesn't have to be those two specifically)...could all have been so different.

See Jose with the likes of Alexis Sanchez. Rushing. Making poor decisions because of the pressure to challenge City.

Jose wanted Perisic who had a superb World Cup.

What I find fascinating is that people will say “well getting Sanchez wasn’t exactly terrible on paper” and they are right … On paper.

But had Perisic joined he would not of just given up like Sanchez. He was a Jose type player and I think this is what’s happened an awful lot at United. All these, what can sometimes seem like minor things (Sanchez instead of Perisic) add up to undermine the squad and manager.

Big names joining , Mata, Di Maria , Pogba , Sanchez , ronaldo , Casemiro , that are really hard to argue with. Who can be unhappy with those signings ?

But you don’t see ANY of the better clubs in England do that so consistently. Pool/City don’t regularly buy players who were looking for moves or their clubs were looking to offload them. That’s because they have plans and they have alternative options.

United is a club of optics. Look at the transfer spend, look at the wage bill. Sure aren’t the glazers doing all they can to get success?

United are an outlier club for all the wrong reasons. Throwing managers at the problem works at other clubs who work well regardless of the quality of the manager.

 

[RedBanker]

Our soft fanbase finds it too hard to comprehend. They still romanticize the legend of SAF and think that with time every manager can become him, which is a high level of delusion. We have been through just 5 managers in 12 years and all of them were/are wrong appointments.

 

[Loon]

It's not as if United did not try to hire "good" managers post-Ferguson. We all know they pursued Klopp (even after leaving following a disappointing final season with Dortmund) and that was a bust because the person responsible for selling the club to him messed it up.

 

[Tarrou]

I agree none of them were good enough. Moyes/Ole/ETH out of their depths. LVG/Jose past it. Easy to see and say in hindsight though.

I'd argue that Ole is the only one who performed above expectations related to their standing in the game.

Obviously a lot more going on behind the scenes though which made their jobs even harder, but that's a seperate subject.

 

[Marwood]

Jose wanted Perisic who had a superb World Cup.

What I find fascinating is that people will say “well getting Sanchez wasn’t exactly terrible on paper” and they are right … On paper.

But had Perisic joined he would not of just given up like Sanchez. He was a Jose type player and I think this is what’s happened an awful lot at United. All these, what can sometimes seem like minor things (Sanchez instead of Perisic) add up to undermine the squad and manager.

Big names joining , Mata, Di Maria , Pogba , Sanchez , ronaldo , Casemiro , that are really hard to argue with. Who can be unhappy with those signings ?

But you don’t see ANY of the better clubs in England do that so consistently. Pool/City don’t regularly buy players who were looking for moves or their clubs were looking to offload them. That’s because they have plans and they have alternative options.

United is a club of optics. Look at the transfer spend, look at the wage bill. Sure aren’t the glazers doing all they can to get success?

United are an outlier club for all the wrong reasons. Throwing managers at the problem works at other clubs who work well regardless of the quality of the manager.

But the bigger problem is why were we after a left winger at all? When we already had two and no right winger.

It's this kind of stuff manager after manager has got wrong.

Terrible decision making all because they saw an opportunity like signing Sanchez, Falcao, Ronaldo. Couldn't help themselves.

 

[MadDogg]

Jose wasn't a bad call. There was definitely a chance he could've gotten us a title or at least properly competing and back up there, but yeah, it was never a long-term decision. LVG more past his best and better suited to international management by that point. Agree on the rest. ETH looked the part, but just hasn't worked out.

At the time Mourinho wasn't necessarily a bad call in his own right (although obviously hindsight says differently). At that stage there was still hope that the way things ended with Real and Chelsea wouldn't happen with us as we'd give him more support. However getting him in directly after LVG was a bad call, as the playstyle was just so completely different.

That was the time to bring in the type of manager that most of us want now. One who is largely possession based, but with a bit more directness and attacking thrust than what LVG was capable of implementing. Bringing in Mourinho who not only couldn't care less about possession, but by that stage of his career seemed to be on a crusade to prove that a possession based style wasn't the way forward, completely undone any of the benefits of us having LVG for those two years.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Nobody has done anything remotely noteworthy at United that really enhanced their career since SAF. No players or managers, the common denominator is United which suggests United is the problem.

I wasn’t forgetting Jose’s final Chelsea season, but he won the league shortly before joining United. We were on an upward trajectory with him until Woodward turned off the tap. Glazers being very happy with 2nd. United failed him because 2nd was good enough. When Klopp was pushing for top spot, he got the likes of VVD and Allison; Jose got an under 20 unproven Dalot and Fred. Load of bollox

Or the problem is getting managers or players who aren't good enough. Every manager post United amounted to nothing. Almost every single player post United amounted to nothing.

Jose's genius idea was to sign Maguire and his CL exit to Sevilla was beyond embarrassing. It was the right move to not back him. The only mistake was not sacking him during the summer to move on.

We were not on an upward trajectory at all. We were showing signs of decline the entire 2nd half of the season. And finishing 2nd was on the back of De Gea having the best shot stopping season a Premier League GK ever had in all likelihood.

 

[Bobby_2024]

We have more chance to get succeed if "Manager and Owners" are in sync with proper recruiting team.
This was not the case and for example when Jose wanted to get rid of fair weather players like Pogba/Martial not only it didn't happen but it generated superior player power which did push things further down.

We accumulated so many average players with weak mentality over the years and we are still facing the consequences because of that more than anything, some times you just need few strong willed players like "Rooney/Keane/Vidic" to lift up the whole place and it didnt happen either.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

But the bigger problem is why were we after a left winger at all? When we already had two and no right winger.

It's this kind of stuff manager after manager has got wrong.

Terrible decision making all because they saw an opportunity like signing Sanchez, Falcao, Ronaldo. Couldn't help themselves.

It’s not the managers getting it wrong, it’s the club. Why is the club making the same mistakes over an over again? A manager can’t empower themselves to sign players.

Woodward/Glazers refused to modernise the club. We aren’t like city even though we spend like city.

Klopp and Pep don’t just pick better players/signings. There is a process at these clubs that helps identify multiple targets and more importantly targets who fit what the teams need.

Whether United managers were good enough, they weren’t supported in squad building in the same professional, competent way that Klopp and Pep have been.

This affects player cost (transfer fee and wages) and ability to move players on. That’s massive.

Add to that , our club extended contracts of players to retain a squad book value. There’s loads of examples of contracts extended (even when interim ole just started) that shows a lot of squad decisions were nothing to do with our managers. Do people think most managers will publicly attack their employers on decisions the don’t agree with ?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The contracts of certain players being extended was a Woodward gaff. He's moronic for that. But the idea that players were forced upon managers via signings is hilarious.

Which players were signed by the club that a manager did not want? Ole himself said this never happened under his watch.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Or the problem is getting managers or players who aren't good enough. Every manager post United amounted to nothing. Almost every single player post United amounted to nothing.

Jose's genius idea was to sign Maguire and his CL exit to Sevilla was beyond embarrassing. It was the right move to not back him. The only mistake was not sacking him during the summer to move on.

We were not on an upward trajectory at all. We were showing signs of decline the entire 2nd half of the season. And finishing 2nd was on the back of De Gea having the best shot stopping season a Premier League GK ever had in all likelihood.

You can pinpoint exactly when things started to unravel for Jose. Newcastle United 11th feb. Zlatan getting injured meant Pogba became “the big dog” in the dresssingroom. After the Newcastle game away , Pogba wanted to drive a new car home separate to the team. Jose said no, he has to come home with the team. Their relationship was never the same.

The club should have sold Pogba not sacked Jose. But the club backed Pogba and didn’t back the team with any meaningful signings.

Jose had gotten us a Europa and EFL cup and had just finished second. He had won the league with Chelsea just before he joined us.

How did backing Pogba work out for us ?

It’s so easy to see all the mistakes of our club and how it consistently undermined our managers.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

The contracts of certain players being extended was a Woodward gaff. He's moronic for that. But the idea that players were forced upon managers via signings is hilarious.

Which players were signed by the club that a manager did not want? Ole himself said this never happened under his watch.

What manager ever publicly says they didn’t want a player ? Do you think most managers get exactly what they want ?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

You can pinpoint exactly when things started to unravel for Jose. Newcastle United 11th feb. Zlatan getting injured meant Pogba became “the big dog” in the dresssingroom. After the Newcastle game away , Pogba wanted to drive a new car home separate to the team. Jose said no, he has to come home with the team. Their relationship was never the same.

The club should have sold Pogba not sacked Jose. But the club backed Pogba and didn’t back the team with any meaningful signings.

Jose had gotten us a Europa and EFL cup and had just finished second. He had won the league with Chelsea just before he joined us.

How did backing Pogba work out for us ?

It’s so easy to see all the mistakes of our club and how it consistently undermined our managers.

What in the world has Jose shown you since then that he even deserved to be backed?

And Jose winning the league in 2014-2015 is irrelevant when you consider the following season that he had with Chelsea. And it happened at Chelsea. Why are we giving him goodwill for something he did at a previous club when he failed to meet those standards here?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

What manager ever publicly says they didn’t want a player ? Do you think most managers get exactly what they want ?

Which player was forced upon the club that the manager didn't want?

As for the bolded bit: No they don't. The point is to make do what with you have and get the team to be more than the sum of their parts. And every single United manager has failed in 1 way or another in doing so.

The idea that Jose was now hard done by the club is hilarious. He has amounted to nothing post United and his CL exit to Sevilla was a fecking disgrace considering his post-match presser. If the Glazers weren't cowards, they should have sacked him then and there.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

What in the world has Jose shown you since then that he even deserved to be backed?

And Jose winning the league in 2014-2015 is irrelevant when you consider the following season that he had with Chelsea. And it happened at Chelsea. Why are we giving him goodwill for something he did at a previous club when he failed to meet those standards here?

What are you talking about ?

Succeeded at EVERY club he managed before United. He succeeded in multiple different kinds of clubs, not just sure winners like Pep.

Hes still actually been our most successful manager since Ferguson. We are a blemish on his CV, not the other way around.

We broke him , like we break every player who joins us.

I’m not saying our managers are or we’re good enough, I’m saying they were undermined badly.

I have a family member who is just really difficult to get on with. They are obnoxious and lash out at people. They go from argument to argument, falling in and out with people at different times. It’s ALWAYS other people’s fault apparently. That’s how I see this “our problem is getting the right manager” argument. The problem is the club, not the managers. Get the club right (which INEOs is doing) and the managers will do far better.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

What are you talking about ?

Succeeded at EVERY club he managed before United. He succeeded in multiple different kinds of clubs, not just sure winners like Pep.

Hes still actually been our most successful manager since Ferguson. We are a blemish on his CV, not the other way around.

We broke him , like we break every player who joins us.

I’m not saying our managers are or we’re good enough, I’m saying they were undermined badly.

I have a family member who is just really difficult to get on with. They are obnoxious and lash out at people. They go from argument to argument, falling in and out with people at different times. It’s ALWAYS other people’s fault apparently. That’s how I see this “our problem is getting the right manager” argument. The problem is the club, not the managers. Get the club right (which INEOs is doing) and the managers will do far better.

How on earth can you say that when he was leading the worst title defense in Premier League history at the time in 2015-2016?

Do you really think Jose in 2016 is the same manager he was in 2010?

And Real Madrid broke him. You should read up on his 3rd season there. He was never the same since then. 1 Premier League title afterwards doesn't change anything.

 

[Eleven-Eighteen]

Rubbish post. What you're saying is only Pep, Klopp, or Ancelotti could've successfully managed United post Fergie.

By that yardstick, Fergie from '86 wouldn't have been a good choice. Would also not explain how Arteta has gotten the success he has.

All of our managers have been hamstrung by the absolutely awful owners. If you want any more proof that ownership matters here are some examples and counterexamples:
Leicester (until the death of that dude)
Spurs (forever penny pinching, non ambitious feckers)
Roman Abramovich v/s Boehly
FSG and Liverpool
Leeds
Fecking Ipswich Town for cryin' out loud

And obviously United ourselves (with the Ferge/Gill period papering over the travesty that is the Glazer family

We have gone through enough managers and players who are all there or thereabouts. We will fail another 5 managers over the next 10 years at the current rate. ETH in my view was a great great hire.

The structure needs to change entirely, which is why I have a glimmer of hope with Ineos.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Rubbish post. What you're saying is only Pep, Klopp, or Ancelotti could've successfully managed United post Fergie.

By that yardstick, Fergie from '86 wouldn't have been a good choice. Would also not explain how Arteta has gotten the success he has.

All of our managers have been hamstrung by the absolutely awful owners. If you want any more proof that ownership matters here are some examples and counterexamples:
Leicester (until the death of that dude)
Spurs (forever penny pinching, non ambitious feckers)
Roman Abramovich v/s Boehly
FSG and Liverpool
Leeds
Fecking Ipswich Town for cryin' out loud

And obviously United ourselves (with the Ferge/Gill period papering over the travesty that is the Glazer family

We have gone through enough managers and players who are all there or thereabouts. We will fail another 5 managers over the next 10 years at the current rate. ETH in my view was a great great hire.

The structure needs to change entirely, which is why I have a glimmer of hope with Ineos.

What manager recently had the CV that Fergie did in '86? None of the managers we hired are really comparable to the Ferguson hire at all.

Fergie from 86 is a great hire under any circumstances.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I was having this exact conversation on the way to the ground at the weekend. Yes of course there's huge issues in the boardroom and with the structure of the club, and it has of course been a hinderance to managers... BUT, it still doesn't take away from the fact that none of our managers have been of the level required.

The one who was closest is probably Jose - and he's gone on to show he's not a top level manager anymore.

This is pretty much the summary of everything.

Anyone thinking we hired a top level manager and they were failed by the club have lost their minds.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

This is pretty much the summary of everything.

Anyone thinking we hired a top level manager and they were failed by the club have lost their minds.

I think you don’t understand what people are actually saying but I’m ok with you thinking I’ve lost my marbles….

 

[Loon]

What manager recently had the CV that Fergie did in '86? None of the managers we hired are really comparable to the Ferguson hire at all.

Fergie from 86 is a great hire under any circumstances.

That was Bobby Charlton. Tapped him up at the World Cup in the summer. He'd fallen out with Ron Atkinson, who was later sacked.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think you don’t understand what people are actually saying but I’m ok with you thinking I’ve lost my marbles….

I do. You think the owners prevent any manager from truly succeeding here and that they + the board undermine the manager.

I think the owners + board are/were a giant problem, but no manager hired was good enough.

I understand the counter argument. I just think it's stupid, because of what each manager has gone on to achieve post-United. And the rebuttal that United ruin players/managers is nonsensical. Most of them weren't good enough, and if they are good enough, they succeed post United anyways. Di Maria was fine when he left United. Heck, even Lukaku(who I don't think is good enough either) had great seasons at Inter.

 

[Rojofiam]

You want to say that Moyes and Solskjaer were material for United manager? Even players knew that they are out of depth. Everton manager who won nothing in his career and former Cardiff (which he got relegated) and Molde manager were defo not good for United.

Van Gaal. Guy who won multiple trophies in his career including building best Ajax team in history maybe.
2010 - won double in Germany and played CL final. 2012-2014 managed Holland with which he finished 3rd on World cup with playing good football. Then we hired him. How he wasn't top manager even then?
Mourinho. Won everything in football. Between 2010-2016 (when we hired him), won treble with Inter, won La Liga with Real, won PL with Chelsea (less than a year when we hired him). Washed up? Give me a break.

So, do please explain to me what was wrong in my post?

Our problem was that Woodward was calling a shots regarding transfers. Better football setup and Jose and Lvg would be success. Same can be said probably for Erik.

By what criteria on earth Solskjaer was good appointment? Pl experience was relegating Cardiff and in second season in Championship he was doing also bad.
Won 2 titles in 6 years in Norway league (which is, with all due respect to them, tier 4 Euro league). Manager with that kind of CV is a good appointment for Man Utd?

Trophy logic, I knew it. Won't even bother.

 

[Marwood]

The only manager truly failed by the owners was Moyes. Good enough or not, to only give him Fellaini in maybe the most important summer in the clubs history was a shocker.

The rest all got huge support. Not perfect of course, but enough to produce teams that at the very least were good to watch.

 

[Andycoleno9]

People should listen Rio in overlap (about Moyes era). Based on what he said i am not sure that even Guardiola or Klopp would be success here if we hired them after Fergie.
Players were not "interested" in adopting different style of management. In 10 minutes about that topic Rio mentioned 10 times phrase - "Fergie would not do it like that".
Later our mistake was to not have football stuff around first team. I mean, our CEO was in charge for squad building. That was just insane stuff.

 

[Eleven-Eighteen]

What manager recently had the CV that Fergie did in '86? None of the managers we hired are really comparable to the Ferguson hire at all.

Fergie from 86 is a great hire under any circumstances.

Seems like you have a list of who would've been good enough - why don't you lay it out? Bet it has the three names I mentioned + Zidane (super questionable) + Tuchel (ultra questionable) + Simeone...?? Like basically it wasn't enough that we got Mourinho 2016. We needed to get Mourinho 2008. Pffft come on man

 

[Andycoleno9]

Trophy logic, I knew it. Won't even bother.

Yeah, don't bother. Trophies are only for ego, right? Stick to Solskjaer. He knew the club. That sounds as a great reason to hire a manager.
Tell me at least one thing; how Solskjaer was a good choice? Did the fact that "he knew the club" made him tactically better? Smarter on transfer market? Better in man management? Better in in-game decisions?

Hiring Ole to go head to head with Klopp and Guardiola was good appointment for you. Biggest joke ever.

 

[MadDogg]

What are you talking about ?

Succeeded at EVERY club he managed before United. He succeeded in multiple different kinds of clubs, not just sure winners like Pep.

Hes still actually been our most successful manager since Ferguson. We are a blemish on his CV, not the other way around.

We broke him , like we break every player who joins us.

I’m not saying our managers are or we’re good enough, I’m saying they were undermined badly.

I have a family member who is just really difficult to get on with. They are obnoxious and lash out at people. They go from argument to argument, falling in and out with people at different times. It’s ALWAYS other people’s fault apparently. That’s how I see this “our problem is getting the right manager” argument. The problem is the club, not the managers. Get the club right (which INEOs is doing) and the managers will do far better.

We didn't break him. It was quite clearly his last season at Real that broke him, and he was never the same after that. The charismatic, funny manager who would deliberately bring the attention to himself so as to protect his players changed at that time to one who constantly threw players under the bus and became extremely toxic the instant anything went wrong. Instead of protecting the players, everything became about protecting himself. The downward slide quite clearly started then.

He managed to eke out one last title with Chelsea at a time that the PL was arguably at it's weakest in history (Leicester won the following season), but that quickly went bad and he was fired. He was worse again at his next job (us), worse again at the following (Spurs), and I didn't watch at Roma but it seemed worse again where his win percentage dropped below 50%.

It all started with how it ended at Real. With the way things went in the Real dressing room, it seems he lost his ability to trust players and he'd go out of his way to create drama. Also the constant comparisons with Pep at the time seems to have led him to become extremely set in his ways, trying to prove that a defensive counter-attacking style can beat possession.

 

[Rojofiam]

Yeah, don't bother. Stick to Solskjaer. He knew the club. That sounds as a great reason to hire a manager.
Tell me at least one thing; how Solskjaer was a good choice? Did the fact that "he knew the club" made him tactically better? Smarter on transfer market? Better in man management? Better in in-game decisions?

Hiring Ole to go head to head with Klopp and Guardiola was good appointment for you. Biggest joke ever.

Funny how everything you listed that I bolded, Ole did better than Mourinho or LVG.

And I wasn't talking about how "knowing the club" etc. is the reason. He did better than Mourinho or van Gaal in everything, except the trophies. But neither of those two came even close to winning the PL or CL, and yet especially about Mourinho, a lot of their fanboys speak like he did.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Funny how everything you listed that I bolded, Ole did better than Mourinho or LVG.

And I wasn't talking about how "knowing the club" etc. is the reason. He did better than Mourinho or van Gaal in everything, except the trophies. But neither of those two came even close to winning the PL or CL, and yet especially about Mourinho, a lot of their fanboys speak like he did.

He did better in everything except trophies"? Our standards these days.....
Btw, Ole's in game management was the reason why we lost final of EL. That was amateurish stuff.

 

[Rojofiam]

He did better in everything except trophies"? Our standards these days.....

What standards? These are just Twitter LUHG fanboy buzzwords

standards blablabla

I didn't say Ole brought United back where it belongs. That's PL and CL success.

What he was building however, was going somewhere, unlike Mourinho or van Gaal's projects. It wasn't perfect, but little old "out of his depth" Ole somehow did way better than supposed top managers Mourinho and van Gaal.

Just because Mourinho was one of the best from the early 2000s until 2015, that doesn't mean much regarding how his United stint went. The same goes for LvG.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I have not read the updated version, but originally the song (and Fergie's autobiography, the original version) was that we only wanted Moyes. We didn't offer the job to Pep, we didn't contact Mourinho despite that he wanted the job, we didn't contact Klopp (we contacted him after we sacked Moyes though but he didn't want to leave BVB and thus we hired LVG), and as far as I am aware, we didn't contact Ancelotti.

The new song that we tried to hire any decent manager alive, and failed at that, thus we had to give the job to Moyes is a bit of history rewriting after Moyes' appointment showed to be a disaster. But there is not much evidence that this is true, and a ton of evidence that we wanted Moyes (hardworking Scottish manager, who would continue the legacy of Busby and SAF). It was a braindead appointment made somehow even worse by giving him full power at the club.

We did. Ancelotti confirmed that he met with Fergie but he was already close to joining Madrid.

 

[ArbeitervonWien]

I guess we couldn't attract the best managers because our structures have been substandard. Even when we were still considered to be one of the biggest clubs in the world we couldn't attract Klopp or Guardiola and had hire Moyes. I tend to think they were seeing that there is something rotten in our club.

So we had to put up with has-beens, a newbie and someone who is more a kind of a football director. I had high hope for EtH, he is the kind of profile for a manager we should have searched for the whole time. It still doesn't work, but I've not lost all hope on him already.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Seems like you have a list of who would've been good enough - why don't you lay it out? Bet it has the three names I mentioned + Zidane (super questionable) + Tuchel (ultra questionable) + Simeone...?? Like basically it wasn't enough that we got Mourinho 2016. We needed to get Mourinho 2008. Pffft come on man

The fact you think this doesn't matter is hilarious. Do you think managers are timeless in their coaching abilities? If they're great in 2008, they're automatically great in 2016? Like what are you even talking about? There were various signs prior to us appointing Mourinho that his best days were behind him.

Are you going to blame our board too for his disastrous 3rd season at Chelsea?

Mourinho was no longer a top level manager when we hired him.

As for who would have been good enough, I mean if you want to delude yourself that every manager we hired was good enough and the club just let them down, go ahead.