No problem mate but sunshine below hasn't got the brains to do what you did
I'd stay of the weed n/and/or booze mate - you don't seem capable of handling it
You'd stay of the weed, really?
ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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You'd stay of the weed, really?
Keith Harris: We're ready to buy Manchester United from the Glazers
Keith Harris: We're ready to buy Manchester United from the Glazers | Mail Online
By ROB DRAPER, MAIL ON SUNDAY CHIEF FOOTBALL
City banker Keith Harris is confident funds can be raised to buy the Glazer family out of their ownership of Manchester United by the end of the season - but it all depends on the Americans being willing to sell.
Harris, the chairman of Seymour Pierce who has engineered buy-outs of Aston Villa, West Ham and Manchester City in recent years, has backed the fans' green-and- gold-rebellion, arguing that the Glazers' business plan is unsustainable.
He is understood to have backers ready to fund a buy-out, which would satisfy the majority of United fans, who currently wear the green-and-gold colours of the club's original incarnation, Newton Heath, as a protest against the Glazers.
But fans must also show they can hurt the Glazers by boycotting seasonticket sales in the summer. It remains to be seen how many will, and if they do, whether others will replace them.
Sources close to the club say that because the Glazers have forced up season-ticket prices, there is currently no waiting list.
While a buy-out envisaged by Harris would not achieve the dream of a supporter-owned club, his backers plan to model their approach to the fans on that of Randy Lerner at Villa, an American owner who is revered on the terraces.
It will cost more than £1billion to buy out the Glazers, who bought the club for £831million in 2005.
Harris has accused them of running down the image of the club, saying recently: 'I'm a huge United fan, but the Glazers are playing with an icon of football, one of the most respected in the world, and it is in danger.'
Keith Harris: We're ready to buy Manchester United from the Glazers | Mail Online
By ROB DRAPER, MAIL ON SUNDAY CHIEF FOOTBALL
City banker Keith Harris is confident funds can be raised to buy the Glazer family out of their ownership of Manchester United by the end of the season - but it all depends on the Americans being willing to sell.
Harris, the chairman of Seymour Pierce who has engineered buy-outs of Aston Villa, West Ham and Manchester City in recent years, has backed the fans' green-and- gold-rebellion, arguing that the Glazers' business plan is unsustainable.
He is understood to have backers ready to fund a buy-out, which would satisfy the majority of United fans, who currently wear the green-and-gold colours of the club's original incarnation, Newton Heath, as a protest against the Glazers.
But fans must also show they can hurt the Glazers by boycotting seasonticket sales in the summer. It remains to be seen how many will, and if they do, whether others will replace them.
Sources close to the club say that because the Glazers have forced up season-ticket prices, there is currently no waiting list.
While a buy-out envisaged by Harris would not achieve the dream of a supporter-owned club, his backers plan to model their approach to the fans on that of Randy Lerner at Villa, an American owner who is revered on the terraces.
It will cost more than £1billion to buy out the Glazers, who bought the club for £831million in 2005.
Harris has accused them of running down the image of the club, saying recently: 'I'm a huge United fan, but the Glazers are playing with an icon of football, one of the most respected in the world, and it is in danger.'
Well, hope they buy it and do a much better job, plus hopefully dont see it as an investment but a football club they love and apply the fan perspective
I think there's already a petition in place. Not sure if it's closed but saw it advertised on a few forums.
MUST has already been involved in meetings with Government and opposition about the issue. To be honest, the FA - although sympathetic - are pretty powerless against the Premier League.
United fan writes open letter to David Gill questioning Glazers
Thursday 18 February 2010
United fan writes open letter to David Gill questioning Glazers | Football | guardian.co.uk
David Gill, the Manchester United chief executive, has come under further pressure to fully explain the club's finances after a season-ticket holder sent an open letter containing 10 questions regarding the controversial ownership of the club by the Glazer family.
The letter from "Andersred" aggressively challenges a number of statements made by Gill with regard to the club's financial position. Gill was involved in a stand-up row with two fans at Birmingham University last week.
The questions, part of the green-and-gold campaign designed to force the Glazers to sell the club, evoke the 99 questions about the club's finances and transfer dealings that were asked by John Magnier and JP McManus, then the club's largest shareholders, in 2004.
The full letter can be seen below:
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Thursday 18 February 2010
United fan writes open letter to David Gill questioning Glazers | Football | guardian.co.uk
David Gill, the Manchester United chief executive, has come under further pressure to fully explain the club's finances after a season-ticket holder sent an open letter containing 10 questions regarding the controversial ownership of the club by the Glazer family.
The letter from "Andersred" aggressively challenges a number of statements made by Gill with regard to the club's financial position. Gill was involved in a stand-up row with two fans at Birmingham University last week.
The questions, part of the green-and-gold campaign designed to force the Glazers to sell the club, evoke the 99 questions about the club's finances and transfer dealings that were asked by John Magnier and JP McManus, then the club's largest shareholders, in 2004.
The full letter can be seen below:
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So, who is AndersRed?
the andersred blog
Top lad, whoever he is. Will be interesting to see what reply, if any that he gets.
the andersred blog
Top lad, whoever he is. Will be interesting to see what reply, if any that he gets.
It will be interesting if any response is given to that.
Great letter but I really doubt that Gill will reply or even read it.
The author has been clever in making it an open latter and by getting decent media coverage, Gill will have to respond.
He'll certainly have read it already. A CEO of any company is given press clippings every morning, its CEO 101. Part of a CEO's role is to spot a potential fire and put it out as quickly as possible.
i think this will be an interesting exercise.
Good questions - I would also like to know the answers
Gill will definitely read it at some point, whether he or the club give a response is another matter. If it gets some press coverage then they may be forced to put out some kind of statement.
Gill will definitely read it at some point, whether he or the club give a response is another matter. If it gets some press coverage then they may be forced to put out some kind of statement.
Good letter but we already know all the answers. I wouldn't have mentioned Carrington myself as it's being sold inter-group and with his financial knowledge he should have known that.
Without wanting to bump that particular thread, any developments with the "Redknights" that anyone knows of, it has all gone a bit quiet. If they are serious they should be using the momentum created by the campaign as quickly as possible, imho
Whats the answers then?!
Patience my friend, patience. The Green and Gold campaign is no-where near its peak yet.
And was prominent at the reserves today as well, especially the last 10 mins or so.
What was the flag they were trying to unfurl behind Gill and SAF?
Just said LUHG.
Couldn't really see it being unfurled as it was a bit dark. Lads got chucked out though apparently.
He should also know when the use of the words "worse" and "worst" is appropriate.
I dont doubt that at all, just I feel that a serious announcement by our wealthy friends would really send it soaring. The Glazers will be hard to move. Just read an article of Tom Clares on the Edwards family by the way, the Glazers were not the first family to screw us, never realised they were as bad as that, first grade tossers by all accounts
Too true. Absolutely over the moon when Martin Edwards resigned. We got Peter Kenyon then, not ideal, but even he was better than Edwards though.
andersred got a reply to his open letter to David Gill
the andersred blog: David Gill replies to my letter
the andersred blog: David Gill replies to my letter
Well done to 'Mr A Green' for getting a reply at least but obviously it doesnt answer any of the questions.
The only interesting point is that it seems the bond issue now obliges the club to release quarterly accounts through the Luxembourg Stock Exchange - I was not previously aware of this - at least we should be able to keep track of a few things if we can get hold of these.
The only interesting point is that it seems the bond issue now obliges the club to release quarterly accounts through the Luxembourg Stock Exchange - I was not previously aware of this - at least we should be able to keep track of a few things if we can get hold of these.
Yup, that was definitely of interest.
Seems like David Gill is speaking at the Soccerex convention that starts in Manchester tomorrow, Gill speaks on Wednesday, so be interesting to see if anything is said there
one-to-one with David Gill (NEW SESSION)
Interview with David Gill (CEO, Manchester United) covering pertinent issues such as football finance, club ownership,
collective selling, Premier League and the 2018 FIFA World Cup. Interviewer: Matthew Lorenzo (Presenter, Sky Sports)
Reading between the lines, it is almost as if Gill was saying 'Listen mate, I work for the Glazers so my hands are tied, but in case you didnt know the club now has to release quarterly statements in Luxembourg so make sure you get hold of these.'
I may well be reading too much into that of course.
I may well be reading too much into that of course.
Excellent news about the quarterly statements. These will provide up with the insight into the clubs crazy finances that ya need and fuel media attention every few months! i'm starting to believe the glazers are not goin to be able to keep hold of the club much longer cuz it just doesn't make financial sense. They've got their calculations wrong, just like the owners of liverpool and they know it! Our income will be considerably less than it was this year in the next couple- tickets revenue will fall when the public sector takes its massive hit later this year. No ronaldo payday. No club world cup or fa cup run. Half of our new 4 year shirt deal paid up front last year etc
Net phone responses look messy oops
It seems these quarterly accounts will be made available on this website:
Manchester United - MU Finance
Analysis of these results here:
the andersred blog: Q4 2009 Red Football results
This first set of 1/4ly results dont really tell us much apart from confirm some of the details of the bond issue - the next set should be more interesting.
With £122M in the bank and revolving credit of £75M plus season ticket revenue I reckon it's balls out to kill the PIKS in July.
Would make sense to get rid of as much as possible - I had read that the first tranche was due to be repaid in August 2010 anyway but I have never seen this confirmed anywhere.
I think they were the original two-tier PIKS that converted into equity if not taken out (33% at midnight on 31 July 2010). The new PIKS run til 2015 and my guess is that they are redeemable only on the anniversary and in full (actually will be £250M in July).
Could well be - hopefully there will be some clarity in next quarter's accounts
I don't think this extra £90m of debt exists anymore- not sure where you have got it from at all?
As far as I understand, the bond issue replaced all the debt apart from the PIK.
The only other thing to take into account is the new £75m revolving credit facility which I assume is not yet being used so we can forget that for the time being.
And you need to be clearer on what profit figures you are using and what exactly they represent - you dont really seem to be too sure yourself.
I am using EBITBA as shown on page 10 of the bond prospectus:
http://www.joinmust.org/docs/mufc-notes.pdf
I agree that the interest (and the fact that it was rising year on year) was previously a worry - but I have maintained all along that the debt would be refinanced before it got out of control and that it is exactly what has happened.
The bond issue now leaves the way clear to pay off the PIKs - we know that at least £70m will be repaid as soon as possible and I am sure that any other excess cash will go towards this. After that we are left with the interest on the bond at around £40m a year - which in my opinion is more than managable and sustainable going forward.
Certainly manageable on the face of it - if indeed that is the expected pre tax profit. But United is supposed to have made a net profit of £ 42m last year which took into account the £ 80m Ronaldo money. So you're right, I am a little confused.
As far as the debt is concerned, obviously there is the £500m bonds but also £130m Piks. Reportedly the total debt is £716m. So that leaves another £86m somewhere. Whilst not affecting immediate cash flow, the Piks are obviously the most expensive - at 14.25% pa. I understand this rate rises in August. Clearly the Glazers will want to liquidate this debt but from where will the money come ? Selling assets or another re-financing arrangement ?
As things stand the interest bill is closer to £65m pa which is very close to unmanageable.
The £716M includes the PIKS at £202M which will rise to £231M in July (I don't think it's possible to pay PIKS down at any arbitrary point in the year). It is also not clear to me whether it is possible to part pay them.
Which makes matters worse of course. I thought that £70m of the bond issue was used to pay down the PIKS.
The debt calculations that Julian Denny talks about relates to what?
You've got £216m which I presume is the PIKs.
The £500m relates to what, the bond or the normal debt?
Did the bonds pay off the normal debt or are they in addition to the normal debt?
I can't believe the Glazers would simply swap it over without making money out of it.
How else are they expecting to pay off the PIKs this summer?
You've got £216m which I presume is the PIKs.
The £500m relates to what, the bond or the normal debt?
Did the bonds pay off the normal debt or are they in addition to the normal debt?
I can't believe the Glazers would simply swap it over without making money out of it.
How else are they expecting to pay off the PIKs this summer?
It would appear they've paid off the senior debt with the bond money but are left with £86m in unsecured loans. They have also paid off £70m of the PIKs - if indeed this can be done - leaving around £130m there. So the outstanding debt is :
£500m @ 9.25% pa = £46.25m pa
£130m @ 14.25% pa = £18.25m pa
£ 86m @ 12.00% pa = £ 10.32m pa
This is effectively close to repayments of £75m pa. The interest on the PIks roll up so the interest actually payable is £57m pa approx.
Obviously they need to repay the PIKs as quickly as possible - if indeed that can be done - as their "value" will balloon in the coming years. But where will they get the money from to do that ? Doesn't look to be too much available from net profits once interest has been paid and I doubt they have the cash themselves to put in.
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