ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances

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Devil_forever said:
Does that include installments from last year's transfers or is that just for new signings this year? GCHQ? Rood? Anyone?
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Don't know. I just posted it hoping someone else would know.


I'm not going to read the whole thing, but from the quoted parts and from what I can read on the first ten pages, they say that they will use the net proceedings from the IPO to pay off debt. Where does it say that they are keeping money for themselves as well? From what I have read it doesn't seem that bad, but obviously I haven't seen all of it.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
It is true mate.

Gill will definitely be part of the "senior management". Not so sure about Fergie as he'd be considered more as a football staff. But I wouldn't be surprised.
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Are you kidding me... Off course he will be the first on the score sheet. This is Sir Alexander we are talking about..without his support they are fecked.
 
Twigginater said:
It's good news in one way. Our debt is down by 75 million. About one sixth. If everything goes well.

The bad news is we've been lied to. We've provided another 200 million dollars to people who are taking money that WE spend.
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If that is the case, and please correct me if i'm wrong as i have no idea whatsover about what is going on, then surely this can only be a good thing with regards to United we are in debt by 75 million less and the Glazers own less of the club as they have sold of some it in shares??????
 
ashy7 said:
"selected employees, consultants and non-employee directors" - I'd amazed amazed if they aren't both part of that.
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Fergie and Gill both obviously are. Hence the conveniently timed singing of the owners praises a few days ago.

Not only is Fergie actively helping to feck the club over, possibly forever, but he's openly treating us all like morons while he's doing it.

This is what depresses me most. I already knew what the Glazers were in it for, so nothing is surprising in that sense, but at least I could still cling to the notion that Ferguson wasn't part of the poison. There's simply too many connecting dots to think that way now. He's become one of their stooges in order to help his pocket get a bit heavier...either that or he's really, really stupid (unlikely), or doesn't have a backbone (even more unlikely).
 
nooshka said:
If that is the case, and please correct me if i'm wrong as i have no idea whatsover about what is going on, then surely this can only be a good thing with regards to United we are in debt by 75 million less and the Glazers own less of the club as they have sold of some it in shares??????
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But we were promised more. The future looked good and rosy originally. Now we see we have been swindled.
 
nooshka said:
If that is the case, and please correct me if i'm wrong as i have no idea whatsover about what is going on, then surely this can only be a good thing with regards to United we are in debt by 75 million less and the Glazers own less of the club as they have sold of some it in shares??????
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It would be a good thing if like they put the entire amount into paying off the debt, rather than only half that amount (like they originally said they would).

They own less of the club but that menas nothing as the shares they hold have 10 times the voting rights of the shares they are selling.
 
Is this basically them actually them using funds to pay off whatever happened to the PIK's?
 
Twigginater said:
But we were promised more. The future looked good and rosy originally. Now we see we have been swindled.
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What absolute cnuts. Is it definite that they are doing this? Also if they were to put it all into paying of the debt, how much debt would we have paid off?
 
7even said:
Are you kidding me... Off course he will be the first on the score sheet. This is Sir Alexander we are talking about..without his support they are fecked.
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noodlehair said:
Fergie and Gill both obviously are. Hence the conveniently timed singing of the owners praises a few days ago.

Not only is Fergie actively helping to feck the club over, possibly forever, but he's openly treating us all like morons while he's doing it.

This is what depresses me most. I already knew what the Glazers were in it for, so nothing is surprising in that sense, but at least I could still cling to the notion that Ferguson wasn't part of the poison. There's simply too many connecting dots to think that way now. He's become one of their stooges in order to help his pocket get a bit heavier...either that or he's really, really stupid (unlikely), or doesn't have a backbone (even more unlikely).
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Are you two cnuts fecking serious? If Fergie hasnt anything to do with us i hope the mods ban you two feckers.
 
They can feck right off with this. Gutted as I foolishly believed we would be wiping out at least half of the debt. If this is true and especially the bit about "senior staff" getting 16 million each then it's an absolutely disgusting state of affairs and we have been taken for absolute mugs.
 
nooshka said:
What absolute cnuts. Is it definite that they are doing this? Also if they were to put it all into paying of the debt, how much debt would we have paid off?
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Another 75 million or so. Which means we'd have cleared over one third of the debt.

They can do anything they want with their money. It maybe could go back to the club. Probs won't though.
 
It looks like the Glazers have changed the nature of the sale. The original proposal involved all new shares, and the proceeds would naturally go to the club. Now they're going half and half. 50% of their own shares - with the money going to them - and 50% new shares - with the money going to the club.

There's nothing particularly controversial about this - they're entitled to sell their shares if they choose.

I wish people would stop quoting the debt interest as £50M per year. It's now down to about £35M. If this IPO goes through, it'll be around £30M.

(Unless I'm misinterpreting the info in this thread. It'll be interesting to hear what the experts have to say.)
 
You can see why people are getting mad at Fergie.

I personally can't. To imagine that the man is not doing everything he can for this club is to much for me to process. I imagine he knows what he's doing.

But I can see why people are mad.
 
Well it's better than them selling without repaying some of the loan!

This situation is a massive improvement on our current position.

It seems to me people want glazers to own 100% and we MORE debt Than them own less and we less debt. This ipo is good for Manchester United.
 
Twigginater said:
Another 75 million or so. Which means we'd have cleared over one third of the debt.

They can do anything they want with their money. It maybe could go back to the club. Probs won't though.
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The debt stands at £425million doesn't it? £75m isn't even a fifth of it.
 
Will Absolute said:
It looks like the Glazers have changed the nature of the sale. The original proposal involved all new shares, and the proceeds would naturally go to the club. Now they're going half and half. 50% of their own shares - with the money going to them - and 50% new shares - with the money going to the club.

There's nothing particularly controversial about this - they're entitled to sell their shares if they choose.

I wish people would stop quoting the debt interest as £50M per year. It's now down to about £35M. If this IPO goes through, it'll be around £30M.

(Unless I'm misinterpreting the info in this thread. It'll be interesting to hear what the experts have to say.)
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Is this correct?

So essentially, 100% of the new shares are being used to pay off debt.

It's just the Glazers are now additionally selling some of their own shares for personal gain?
 
Jaz said:
Well it's better than them selling without repaying some of the loan!

This situation is a massive improvement on our current position.

It seems to me people want glazers to own 100% and we MORE debt Than them own less and we less debt. This ipo is good for Manchester United.
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:eek::wenger: :confused:

What is this I don't even
 
Ramshock said:
Are you two cnuts fecking serious? If Fergie hasnt anything to do with us i hope the mods ban you two feckers.
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How do you explain him bigging up the Glazers in front of the world media just a few days before all this then? Did he just decide to do that off the cuff?

Are you accusing him of being so stupid he has no idea what's going on at the club he's been in charge of for over 20 years?

He's not a fecking moron. He knows what's going on and he's endorsing it, openly, which leads to legitimate questions as to why he would want to do that.

I don't think the system allows me to ban myself either.
 
Ash_G said:
I don't really understand this. Surely it makes more sense for them to clear as much debt as they can. Then instead off paying money out on interest etc they can just take a share of the profit each year. surely it wouldn't take them that long to make up how much they will pocket from this, not to mention the goodwill from the fans if we're debt free and our increased ability to challenge for top players.
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Translation- " pull down your pants and roll over on to your stomach"
 
noodlehair said:
How do you explain him bigging up the Glazers in front of the world media just a few days before all this then? Did he just decide to do that off the cuff?

Are you accusing him of being so stupid he has no idea what's going on at the club he's been in charge of for over 20 years?

He's not a fecking moron. He knows what's going on and he's endorsing it, openly, which leads to legitimate questions as to why he would want to do that.

I don't think the system allows me to ban myself either.
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Noodles you dont know if he benefits from this, IF he does then by all means have a go at him. No I don't think he is stupid which is precisely why I don't believe he would sacrifice his status with the club support by doing something like this. IF he is involved I will hold my hands up and apologise.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Is this correct?

So essentially, 100% of the new shares are being used to pay off debt.

It's just the Glazers are now additionally selling some of their own shares for personal gain?
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I'm not sure. I just came home 15 minutes ago, opened Redcafe, and glanced through this thread. That's what it looks like though.
 
Ramshock said:
Noodles you dont know if he benefits from this, IF he does then by all means have a go at him. No I don't think he is stupid which is precisely why I don't believe he would sacrifice his status with the club support by doing something like this. IF he is involved I will hold my hands up and apologise.
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Do you not think he has already sacrificed some of his status within the clubs support by publicly backing the Glazers and telling us that we aren't real fans as we don't back the owners who are bleeding the club dry?
 
Ramshock said:
Shove it Spoons, why have digs at fergie when they dont know for sure?
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Why? Because they're emotional and love this football club and feel betrayed by the person they have worshipped for over twenty years.

I personally hope to God its false and will give benefit of doubt unless it's absolutely proved definite but I'm not surprised by people's reactions at all.

Even without this latest drama many people hate the Glazers and are furious at the ongoing situation and feel Fergie shouldn't support them publicly.
 
Sir Matt said:
:eek::wenger: :confused:

What is this I don't even
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The glazers are offering others to buy a stake in the their club, some of the revenue raised from that will pay off the clubs debt.

This is better than the glazers not selling nothing and thus not repaying any of the debt.
 
ashy7 said:
Do you not think he has already sacrificed some of his status within the clubs support by publicly backing the Glazers and telling us that we aren't real fans as we don't back the owners who are bleeding the club dry?
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He didn't say that for feck's sake! Are you another that didn't read the article? The part where he said 'the majority of real fans would suggest they've been good'? Or do you see something different to the rest of us?
 
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