ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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GCHQ knows where the funds are coming from and is on a bit of a wind up tonight, enjoying it as well. Been reading articles to be published in the press tomorrow and it would seem this £220m payment of debt is accurate and that club funds will not be touched, ie we have 100m+ of cash available for transfers etc, just as Mr Rooney was told. The source of the cash could be any of those already speculated, an investor IMHO is favourite but who knows, apart from GCHQ and the Glazers of course
You really have a problem with MUST the only organisation that represents the ordinary fans of Manchester United, you can get help for that obsession you know
We're predicating an awful lot on that line in the Bloomberg article that no money is being taken from the club. I'll believe it only when we get the full details.
It seems weird to me that they wouldn't take some of that cash out rather than repay the PIKs in their entirety with a new loan.
It seems weird to me that they wouldn't take some of that cash out rather than repay the PIKs in their entirety with a new loan.
It seems great news to be fair. No one need to get wound up if the club has got rid of the shackles of high interest debt (by club I mean owners/RFJV).
If it keeps all Uniteds cash at bank then I would be very satisfied with the improvement.
We are not debt free but if turnover is increasing and risk associated with debt is decreasing we are better than we were.
If it keeps all Uniteds cash at bank then I would be very satisfied with the improvement.
We are not debt free but if turnover is increasing and risk associated with debt is decreasing we are better than we were.
Anything the Glazers do should be viewed with deep suspicion, they are in this for themselves and do not give two hoots about Manchester United the football club or its fans
I have a problem with propoganda.
You have said on more than 1 occasion that you were going to stop posting in this thread - you can get help for that obsession you know ...
True that actually - andersred seems to have taken it as fact. The news seems to be leaked direct from certain holders of the PIK.
Personally I think we are now seeing the results of the Glazers finally getting involved in the PR game
You mean is you would like me to stop posting, the truth hurts does it not. I only post now when there is something of interest to post about
I've never known an owner of any asset to be any different.
The biggest problem with this is the model they used to buy the club, not the buyers.
This model is a modern version of paying Peter with Paul.
Nobody could improve the PR standing of the Glazers, the damage they are doing continues unabated
Seems like good news, also seems like some posters are a bit pissed at said good news... go figure.
Good news would be nice but do you honestly trust anything the Glazers do? you may I don't.
Said posters are or will be forced to eat a great deal of humble pie thats why, credit to Andersred hes already admitted to being wrong on this situation, unfortunately i doubt the other far less intelligent individuals on the subject will follow suit.
Its a shame when such good news for the club comes out a said few individuals don't like it because its gone against everything they've said would happen/was happening.
Fair play to the Glazers. Up there with Mother Theresa after this for me.
Still a massive cnut but at least they've done something good.
Still a massive cnut but at least they've done something good.
Refinancing would seem the most likely. Interestingly, they don't appear to be taking the carveouts which is a bit odd; You would think they would reduce overall borrowings (and the likely cost) by exercising the carevouts. New debt might have early redemption penalties thus making heavy early repayments costly.
They appear to have funding in place; so we are not dealing with a spur of the moment development. An asset sale elsewhere or an equity sale, partially or otherwise is likely to spin rumours. I have heard nada.
Maybe we have underestimated their personal wealth. They amassed close to 100m dollars last year from the sale of Zapata Corp. amongst other things. Perhaps First Allied wasn't the beneficiary.
Pure speculation, I know, but I wonder if those piks came with exerciseable equity options giving the pik holder the right to purchase an equity stake at a certain price should certain events occur; we know that a pik covenant was breached last year resulting in higher interest. Very unlikely for a whole lot of reasons but still.
What have the Glazers done so far for Manchester United other than to destroy its financial standing, why should we expect anything else from these dishonest people in the future. Get real they are here to milk as much money as possible out of the club, anything they do is ultimately for their fat selves
I think most people are just going to wait and see what details are going to come out before making any definitive conclusions.
To be fair most people expected the money to come from the club given the provisions for doing so in the bond prospectus.
Crerand, what is your personal issue with the Glazers? Why do you need to accuse them of being the scum of the earth every two posts?
There's thousands of business families out there just like them, and then there's worse.
What do you find so morally wrong about what they've done, or what they do?
So genuine questions. What does this mean? IIRC the PIKs were the Glazers personal liability right? So them paying the PIKs off won't actually reduce any of Manchester United's existing debt?
Also if they have taken loans to pay this off, is there anything to stop them loading this new debt on the club?
Also if they have taken loans to pay this off, is there anything to stop them loading this new debt on the club?
All will be made clear(er) later today... go to sleep or have a wank...
If it is a refinance then I doubt we will even find out the details - and why should we, it is their personal debt after all!
Many have underestimated their personal wealth - the general portrayal of pennyless chancers on the verge of bankruptcy is clearly well wide of the mark.
As you note, we already know they made significant cash from Zapata and despite pointless stories about failing malls, First Allied is clearly a very valuable company. There is also bound to be plenty that we have no clue about at all in terms of investments etc.
I have pointed out on several times that no one has any clue what the family's personal wealth might be, regardless of that I did not expect them to use it unless there was no other option. It is odd that they didnt take what was due to them - I can only think it is a PR move.
The PIKs do convert to equity if not redeemed - i thought that was common knowledge? There may well have been other options open to the hedge funds who provided them - but again would we even be informed if a debt for equity swap had happened?
Lets see what we find out in the morning, if anything!
Funny that, they were already up their with Mother Teresa before all this for me, as crooks and swindlers.
Sounds like fantastic news, I'll wait until we have a bit more information on the details of how they are paying this debt off before I get too excited by this but it certainly sounds like the massive burden of this high interest debt is going to be lifted.
My guess is that they secured another, much lower interest, line of credit off the back of their growing profits. They were forced to use the PIK notes at the time because nobody else would touch them. Now they have managed to prove they are capable of paying these loans off and they have increased the clubs turnover by a huge margin despite the recession, all of a sudden they don't seem such a huge risk and a new, lower interest, source of credit might not be so hard to secure.
As MUST have already popped up in this thread, I'm awaiting thier announcement on the subject. I'm really hoping they have learnt from Rooneygate and if this clearing of the £220m PIKs proves to be nothing but good for the future of the club and has contradicted all their predictions of the Glazers using the clubs money to pay off that debt, they don't harm their image further by coming out with another childish petulant statement. They would be a lot more credible if, like Andersred, they are able to hold their hands up and admit they were wrong on this occasion. It wouldn't have to compromise their whole campaign of the Glazers being bad for the fans, that would remain true as the cup scheme is still in place and tickets will continue to rise. But if MUST continue down the road of the Glazers being such a risk to the future of the club with the debt burdens ect ect and using club money to pay off their debts, all of which is, to an extent, proving to be not the case. Down the line they are going to look very stupid indeed.
My guess is that they secured another, much lower interest, line of credit off the back of their growing profits. They were forced to use the PIK notes at the time because nobody else would touch them. Now they have managed to prove they are capable of paying these loans off and they have increased the clubs turnover by a huge margin despite the recession, all of a sudden they don't seem such a huge risk and a new, lower interest, source of credit might not be so hard to secure.
As MUST have already popped up in this thread, I'm awaiting thier announcement on the subject. I'm really hoping they have learnt from Rooneygate and if this clearing of the £220m PIKs proves to be nothing but good for the future of the club and has contradicted all their predictions of the Glazers using the clubs money to pay off that debt, they don't harm their image further by coming out with another childish petulant statement. They would be a lot more credible if, like Andersred, they are able to hold their hands up and admit they were wrong on this occasion. It wouldn't have to compromise their whole campaign of the Glazers being bad for the fans, that would remain true as the cup scheme is still in place and tickets will continue to rise. But if MUST continue down the road of the Glazers being such a risk to the future of the club with the debt burdens ect ect and using club money to pay off their debts, all of which is, to an extent, proving to be not the case. Down the line they are going to look very stupid indeed.
What effect will this have on Manchester United's debt? Last time I came into here, I was told that the PIK loans are Glazer's personal loans and they could take 95 million at once to repay these loans. I'm assuming that it won't have a real big impact on United's loan, but our cash reserves will remain untouched and will continually grow which is a positive for sure.
What does anyone else expect?
Even down to their dirtiest, Glazers are businessmen. Doesn't make sense for the club to implode like Liverpool and lose off a bit of their money like Hicks.
Maybe they see this as pumping investment and raising capital for the business to grow. Either that or the new turnover rule by UEFA?
Even down to their dirtiest, Glazers are businessmen. Doesn't make sense for the club to implode like Liverpool and lose off a bit of their money like Hicks.
Maybe they see this as pumping investment and raising capital for the business to grow. Either that or the new turnover rule by UEFA?
Good news, so far. If the money in reserve is really going to be used for development of the squad, then fine.
I find all this a bit strange. I am forced to think, however, that Rooneygate was the trigger mechanism leading to this.
We heard the Glazers caved in to his demands for a stronger squad. Maybe, I say maybe, this was true; and the Glazers were forced to sell one of their assets, to raise the money, which we hear is to be paid next week. And leaving the reserves for squad development.
I find all this a bit strange. I am forced to think, however, that Rooneygate was the trigger mechanism leading to this.
We heard the Glazers caved in to his demands for a stronger squad. Maybe, I say maybe, this was true; and the Glazers were forced to sell one of their assets, to raise the money, which we hear is to be paid next week. And leaving the reserves for squad development.
Rooney thowing a little hissy fit about wanting to buy more players will have nothing to do with this.
I have no doubt they had these plans when they raised the bond issue. The fact they didn't cut into the £95m they were allowed by the rules of the Bond confirms this really as if they hadn't plans to clear it or at least manage it then it would make no sense not to have used that money.
Exactly. Its weird how people believe Rooney throwing his toys out of the pram will cause United to go on a spending spree and now cause the Glazers to cough up 220 million to repay debts. Its laughable.
Whatever the reasons and however its being achieved taking 220 million off the debt and waving goodbye to the 16.25 interest rate on the PIK's without touching a penny of the clubs cash reserves is great news!
Hear, hear.
I can understand why you have said this, but I'm not much of a fan of praising people for behaving like a responsible adult. Personally, I would have been far more surprised if Anders had reacted differently.
What is more interesting to me is fact that some appear to believe (including yourself) that those who saw the prospect of the Glazers using the clubs money for the PIK's as a negative somehow need to own up to their mistake, while those who believed exactly the same thing, only they weren't quite so vociferous in their opposition, don't.
Same here. usually wiping off 220 m of debt involves some planning which can take time.
it could be that when the price of the pik's went down, they bought more than the 20-30 per cent of it, as bloomberg had reported.
Alternatively they could have decided that int the scenario where interest rates are expected to remain low for some time, it does not make sense continuing to pay 16 per cent interest. So they decided to get a loan on another asset they possess at a lower rate and get rid of the pik's
Well, this has the potential to make some people look very silly indeed. It's going to be an interesting day. Perhaps the lesson for everyone, even those with industry knowledge, is to not make assumptions about or try and second guess the glazers business plan or intentions for united going forward. Also, if the £95m hasn't been taken one or two apologies to David gill might be appropriate.
I am not going to be cautious till they announce exactly what's happening. If they have taken more loans and there is a good chance they have taken more loans to repay these debts, lets see what the terms are etc.
But overall a reduction in interest rate is good for sure.
You know, if the Glazers are going to earn money, Manchester United need to be successful. So my fair guess would be that you are very wrong about them dont give a shit about United. This is a right step for us. I rather have the Glazers with success, than some Man Shitty owner.
This is my view aswell. While we have different reasons for it, we both want United to be successful. The Glazers need us to be successful to reap financial rewards while us fans enjoy being successful for Footballing reasons.
At the end of the day, our success off the field is still relative to our success on the field and obviously vice versa. We can still be proud of this as fans as we have not had our success "bought" by external factors like Chelsea, City, Real Madrid and even to an extent, Barcelona.
Phew. One little bubble, and there is a wank fest. Wait for the real outcome. If the Glazers are sincere, as the last few posters make out, fine. Lets hope its true, because they are not going to sell very soon. So, lets hope the devils are doing a good turn.
Agreed. Lets wait first and see
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