Alex Telles | signs for Al Nassr

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Leftback99 said:
If £4m is such a steal for him why aren't other teams desperate to buy him? We couldn't even get a loan fee last year.
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Why did Sevilla loan a player from United for free who they then went on to play 38 times across the league and Europa League? Well maybe because they knew they could get away with not paying?

You honestly going to argue that he wasn’t worth a loan fee to them!
 
Cassidy said:
Why did Sevilla loan a player from United for free who they then went on to play 38 times across the league and Europa League? Well maybe because they knew they could get away with not paying?

You honestly going to argue that he wasn’t worth a loan fee to them!
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Again, if he was such a good pick up on loan surely we'd have had a bidding war for him. Just covering his wages was the best we could get.

I'll bash how poorly run we are with the best of them, but struggling to offload dross like Telles is due to bad decision making in the past.
 
Cassidy said:
Why did Sevilla loan a player from United for free who they then went on to play 38 times across the league and Europa League? Well maybe because they knew they could get away with not paying?

You honestly going to argue that he wasn’t worth a loan fee to them!
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Yes.

If he was worth a loan fee we would have got one. Nobody offered us a bean for him last season, you cannot possibly think that United were rebuffing cash offers from other clubs so we could send him to Sevilla for nothing. The only offer we had was a free loan to Sevilla to get some of his wages off the books and he did such a great job for them that they made it clear the second his loan was up that they had no interst in signing him or bringing him back. It has been widely reported that the only other offers we have received in this window were for free transfers and so 4M plus whatever the add ons end up being is actually a great piece of business for a player who is frankly incapable of performing in the PL.
 
Leftback99 said:
If £4m is such a steal for him why aren't other teams desperate to buy him? We couldn't even get a loan fee last year.
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Because we are rank shit at selling our talents. This summer we sold Laird and Iqbal for a pittance whilst City were able to sale an academy graduate with zero senior level experience to Southampton for 15m, for crying out loud.....
 
Last summer we watched City sale Edozie, Bazunu and Lavia for double figure sums with zero senior experience. Contrast that to how much ww have bagged for Iqbal and Laird this summer. Let alone compare what we got for Grner last summer after starring in the championship with the 19m Burnley just paid City for James Trafford. If you STILL can't see what's wrong nor see the pattern. You have issues....
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Last summer we watched City sale Edozie, Bazunu and Lavia for double figure sums with zero senior experience. Contrast that to how much ww have bagged for Iqbal and Laird this summer. Let alone compare what we got for Grner last summer after starring in the championship with the 19m Burnley just paid City for James Trafford. If you STILL can't see what's wrong nor see the pattern. You have issues....
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What's going on?
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Last summer we watched City sale Edozie, Bazunu and Lavia for double figure sums with zero senior experience. Contrast that to how much ww have bagged for Iqbal and Laird this summer. Let alone compare what we got for Grner last summer after starring in the championship with the 19m Burnley just paid City for James Trafford. If you STILL can't see what's wrong nor see the pattern. You have issues....
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By sheer coincidence they've also won the u18 PL 4 seasons in a row.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Last summer we watched City sale Edozie, Bazunu and Lavia for double figure sums with zero senior experience. Contrast that to how much ww have bagged for Iqbal and Laird this summer. Let alone compare what we got for Grner last summer after starring in the championship with the 19m Burnley just paid City for James Trafford. If you STILL can't see what's wrong nor see the pattern. You have issues....
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They are just better talents than ours I mean that's an easy answer, look at the teams wanting to sign their players whereas ours go to Birmingham and Utrecht, of ours were any better there would be clubs lining up to sign them due to the price we sell them at and guess what there aren't and what does that tell you that they aren't that good
 
Leftback99 said:
Again, if he was such a good pick up on loan surely we'd have had a bidding war for him. Just covering his wages was the best we could get.

I'll bash how poorly run we are with the best of them, but struggling to offload dross like Telles is due to bad decision making in the past.
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Dross like, but hes obviously not dross if hes making 30+ appearances for Europa League winners. Maybe his wages at United were the issue who knows
 
Gandalf said:
Yes.

If he was worth a loan fee we would have got one. Nobody offered us a bean for him last season, you cannot possibly think that United were rebuffing cash offers from other clubs so we could send him to Sevilla for nothing. The only offer we had was a free loan to Sevilla to get some of his wages off the books and he did such a great job for them that they made it clear the second his loan was up that they had no interst in signing him or bringing him back. It has been widely reported that the only other offers we have received in this window were for free transfers and so 4M plus whatever the add ons end up being is actually a great piece of business for a player who is frankly incapable of performing in the PL.
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If you think selling is all about ONLY what people have offered you. And you don’t realise that you as the seller are responsible for generating sales leads and offers then you are missing a big part of the issue.

This is not an isolated inceident. And clearly looking at the players track record he is being undervalued.
 
He's not PL level and he's 30 years of age. Those are the things that dictate what we can get for him. Those are the type of things that probably meant there was only one serious cash offer that would keep him on the wage he was expecting to earn. Otherwise we'd just be loaning him out again for nothing because he wants to keep his United wages. Better off the books than on them for whatever fee, even a paltry one.

The sooner we have good recruitment and talent to offer the market the better we'll be. That's the "mystery" about why we're poor sellers and other teams are supposedly great. Talent identification and stockpiling it. Both within the academy and the first team. Within the first team you have to sell them as soon as they've shown something and as soon as you identify they won't make it. You have to be absolutely ruthless, not hang on because they may "come good." With youth you need talent clubs want, it's not about senior appearances neccessarily, there are no secrets in football - every top flight club has their ear to the ground. It's about good loans or identifying talent people want. They don't want fecking Iqbal. But they do want Lavia. You need Lavia's and not Iqbals. Not to shit on Iqbal because ultimately he's purely an academy product we created, but the point is, talent is everything if you want good fees. Top flight clubs come in heavy for talent, Utrecht come in for random youth punts.
 
Gavinb33 said:
They are just better talents than ours I mean that's an easy answer, look at the teams wanting to sign their players whereas ours go to Birmingham and Utrecht, of ours were any better there would be clubs lining up to sign them due to the price we sell them at and guess what there aren't and what does that tell you that they aren't that good
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They are not, clubs paying stupid amounts for average players is not new. Similar things happened for Liverpool's cast offs previously as well. We are just bad at selling, always have been.

Also, the recruitment guy at Southampton worked for City's academy previously, so that plays a part.
 
Premier league fans are forgetting that Spanish teams and Serie A teams are still recovering from covid. 4 years ago some spanish/italian teams would probably be low balling us for 7-8m with horrible payment conditions instead its a Saudi team that know we have no other alternatives.
 
Ace of Spades said:
They are not, clubs paying stupid amounts for average players is not new. Similar things happened for Liverpool's cast offs previously as well. We are just bad at selling, always have been.

Also, the recruitment guy at Southampton worked for City's academy previously, so that plays a part.
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Iqbal went for what 800k thats a championship fee, if he was any good many more teams would be looking at him for that fee as it would be a bargain and they weren't, if he was as big of talent as Lavia there would be clubs lining up for him at that price
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Last summer we watched City sale Edozie, Bazunu and Lavia for double figure sums with zero senior experience. Contrast that to how much ww have bagged for Iqbal and Laird this summer. Let alone compare what we got for Grner last summer after starring in the championship with the 19m Burnley just paid City for James Trafford. If you STILL can't see what's wrong nor see the pattern. You have issues....
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City’s young players are far better than ours though. They won U18 4 times in a row, and U21 3 times in a row. Lavia for example is already mentioned as a 50m+ player and will get sold for that sum if not more. In the last 10 years, the only 2 players we have produced that could have been sold for over 50m are Rashford and Greenwood.

You cannot compare those types of players with our young players who probably won’t ever make to EPL.

So it is not a matter of ‘us being shit at selling players’ but it is ‘our youngsters not being that good’ and ‘our regulars being in 3x salary that any sane club would have ever offered’. Just look at Williams who is in 65k/week, he would be lucky to get 25k from any other club. Same for Telles, no one in Europe offered a single pound for him. During the years we have collected too many mediocre players in high salaries, which makes shifting them very hard.
 
Ace of Spades said:
They are not, clubs paying stupid amounts for average players is not new. Similar things happened for Liverpool's cast offs previously as well. We are just bad at selling, always have been.

Also, the recruitment guy at Southampton worked for City's academy previously, so that plays a part.
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How many times they have to win U21/U18 competitions in a row for us to finally admit that they are better than our young players? I assume it is more than 3-4 times, considering that is what they have been doing.

Saying that City young teams are not better than ours is as absurd as saying that their main team is not better than ours.

Of course that their players are better than ours. That is why one year after joining Soton, Lavia is already linked with 50m+ moves. The only academy player that we can sell for that sum right now is Rashford.
 
Gavinb33 said:
Iqbal went for what 800k thats a championship fee, if he was any good many more teams would be looking at him for that fee as it would be a bargain and they weren't, if he was as big of talent as Lavia there would be clubs lining up for him at that price
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The fee is irrelevant, he did not go to a championship side, and it is well known that we accept lower fees if they allow our young players to find a good club. No one here knows how many teams were interested in him. Just that he got a good move to a club that has a chance to play european football.

As for Lavia, very good talent but still not good enough for a top side. He made plenty of mistakes last year, which would get him crucified if they happened for any top side. Let's see how he develops, but unless someone pays the stupid money that Southampton want, he will be playing championship football next year. Still, he was one of the more positive signings. They also spent a bunch on other untested players, which eventually helped them get relegated.

This is not even about young players. Our lack of abilty to sell players is on all levels. Yes, Telles may be useless to us, but he still plays for Brazil, and was part of the team that won the EL. He is a okay player, has good crossing and good ability on set pieces which is a valuable ability. He is a good professional and was captain of the Porto side that won the league.

Revan said:
How many times they have to win U21/U18 competitions in a row for us to finally admit that they are better than our young players? I assume it is more than 3-4 times, considering that is what they have been doing.
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Winning the U21/U18s is irrelevant to what happens in their pro careers, and that does not mean they have more talent or that they will have better careers. Just that their teams overall were better rounded and more drilled and performed better in that period. It does not guarantee anything.

Saying that City young teams are not better than ours is as absurd as saying that their main team is not better than ours.
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It is not, at least in terms of talent. The only absurd thing is thing is thinking that U21/U18 football is the be all and end all in a players development.

Of course that their players are better than ours. That is why one year after joining Soton, Lavia is already linked with 50m+ moves. The only academy player that we can sell for that sum right now is Rashford.
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No, they are not. If anybody is stupid enough to pay that much for a player that was part of a relegated team, then that would be a bad deal. No, both Garnacho and Greenwood would be worth that much at least, much less Rashford who will be even more.
 
Revan said:
City’s young players are far better than ours though. They won U18 4 times in a row, and U21 3 times in a row. Lavia for example is already mentioned as a 50m+ player and will get sold for that sum if not more. In the last 10 years, the only 2 players we have produced that could have been sold for over 50m are Rashford and Greenwood.

You cannot compare those types of players with our young players who probably won’t ever make to EPL.

So it is not a matter of ‘us being shit at selling players’ but it is ‘our youngsters not being that good’ and ‘our regulars being in 3x salary that any sane club would have ever offered’. Just look at Williams who is in 65k/week, he would be lucky to get 25k from any other club. Same for Telles, no one in Europe offered a single pound for him. During the years we have collected too many mediocre players in high salaries, which makes shifting them very hard.
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Lavia signed for City when he was 16 from Anderlecht, he has very little to do with their academy. Was there for barely two seasons and then bailed when they couldn't offer him a pathway into the first team.

Our best players actually make it into the first team, they're not developed to be sold at a profit.
 
Gandalf said:
Yes.

If he was worth a loan fee we would have got one. Nobody offered us a bean for him last season, you cannot possibly think that United were rebuffing cash offers from other clubs so we could send him to Sevilla for nothing. The only offer we had was a free loan to Sevilla to get some of his wages off the books and he did such a great job for them that they made it clear the second his loan was up that they had no interst in signing him or bringing him back. It has been widely reported that the only other offers we have received in this window were for free transfers and so 4M plus whatever the add ons end up being is actually a great piece of business for a player who is frankly incapable of performing in the PL.
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You obviously don't know how negotiations work
 
Alex Telles.... cross!!! Ronaldooooooo!! goall! siuuuuuuuuuuuuu!! mashallah habibi. mashallah habibi. Siuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
 
Gandalf said:
Classic response when you have lost the argument and cannot actually refute any of the points I have made :lol:.
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I refuted the argument that if someone wanted to pay more for something they would have offered it. And again its clear if you know anything about a negotiation you would know that is false.
Moving on now though
 
Revan said:
City’s young players are far better than ours though. They won U18 4 times in a row, and U21 3 times in a row. Lavia for example is already mentioned as a 50m+ player and will get sold for that sum if not more. In the last 10 years, the only 2 players we have produced that could have been sold for over 50m are Rashford and Greenwood.

You cannot compare those types of players with our young players who probably won’t ever make to EPL.

So it is not a matter of ‘us being shit at selling players’ but it is ‘our youngsters not being that good’ and ‘our regulars being in 3x salary that any sane club would have ever offered’. Just look at Williams who is in 65k/week, he would be lucky to get 25k from any other club. Same for Telles, no one in Europe offered a single pound for him. During the years we have collected too many mediocre players in high salaries, which makes shifting them very hard.
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Just another trove excuses justifying the indefensible. We just sold a Europa league winning fullback for a pittance. City meanwhile are selling an unknown, never played senior ball, Portuguese under age internartional to west ham for abnormal profits. Let's not pretend his a once in a generation player to justify the fee.....heck! We've seen Po sell the like of Ryan Kent, Harry Wilson and others for double digit figures. Players around the quality of Elanga. But when sell of an elanga like 3m and add one to make 5. Yall will pretend its because his wagers are high and he is supposedly talentless. Rather than the obvious. We are utter rubbish at the transfer business of selling talent. All our top 6 rivals can sell all sorts of players at decent prices. We specialize in selling at abnormal losses for the most part.
 
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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Just another trove excuses justifying the indefensible. We just sold a Europa league winning fullback for a pittance. City meanwhile are selling an unknown, never played senior ball, Portuguese under age internartional to west ham for abnormal profits. Let's not pretend his a once in a generation player to justify the fee.....
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So if he was not ours and he was avilable would you pay more than 4M for him?
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Last summer we watched City sale Edozie, Bazunu and Lavia for double figure sums with zero senior experience. Contrast that to how much ww have bagged for Iqbal and Laird this summer. Let alone compare what we got for Grner last summer after starring in the championship with the 19m Burnley just paid City for James Trafford. If you STILL can't see what's wrong nor see the pattern. You have issues....
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I know which players I’d rather be buying.
 
Not sure I'd pay a fee for him if I was running a sensibly run club. 30 years old, high salary expectations. Must be 50 left backs out there that can do the same thing for less money that are more of an investment than Telles would be in terms of future profitability and development.

Saudi can do whatever they want, there are no consequences for them financially and the long term of a player means little. It's probably no surprise they are the only contenders. Genuinely think he's the type that would be going back home to Brazil to finish his career if this option wasn't available.
 
Revan said:
City’s young players are far better than ours though. They won U18 4 times in a row, and U21 3 times in a row. Lavia for example is already mentioned as a 50m+ player and will get sold for that sum if not more. In the last 10 years, the only 2 players we have produced that could have been sold for over 50m are Rashford and Greenwood.

You cannot compare those types of players with our young players who probably won’t ever make to EPL.

So it is not a matter of ‘us being shit at selling players’ but it is ‘our youngsters not being that good’ and ‘our regulars being in 3x salary that any sane club would have ever offered’. Just look at Williams who is in 65k/week, he would be lucky to get 25k from any other club. Same for Telles, no one in Europe offered a single pound for him. During the years we have collected too many mediocre players in high salaries, which makes shifting them very hard.
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we have been the worst run big club around for far too long. It shows in our inability to sell or market players, the poor contract decisions, our lack of success on the pitch and the crumbling infrastructure within the club. Everything has been off base while the likes of city have pulled far ahead. To be fair the only glimmer of hope around the place is the FAYC winners and we already look to have taken Garnacho and Mainoo straight into the first team on the back of that. City just sell theirs.
 
Ali Dia said:
we have been the worst run big club around for far too long. It shows in our inability to sell or market players, the poor contract decisions, our lack of success on the pitch and the crumbling infrastructure within the club. Everything has been off base while the likes of city have pulled far ahead. To be fair the only glimmer of hope around the place is the FAYC winners and we already look to have taken Garnacho and Mainoo straight into the first team on the back of that. City just sell theirs.
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Luckily, we seem to start improving in this aspect. The transfers (and fees except Antony’s) seem to make sense. The new players are in reasonable salaries, and we got Rashford to sign in a reasonable salary (if we had Woodward and Judge, we probably would have offered 500k/week and make a story how an academy guy became the most paid player in the league), we did well in getting rid of Ronaldo, De Gea and hopefully soon Maguire, and slowly but surely, we are getting rid of some of the deadwood.

I think EtH deserves massive credit for making us look like a serious club again. Which shouldn’t have been his job in the first place, that’s what DoR does, but these events have been happening since he became manager.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Just another trove excuses justifying the indefensible. We just sold a Europa league winning fullback for a pittance. City meanwhile are selling an unknown, never played senior ball, Portuguese under age internartional to west ham for abnormal profits. Let's not pretend his a once in a generation player to justify the fee.....heck! We've seen Po sell the like of Ryan Kent, Harry Wilson and others for double digit figures. Players around the quality of Elanga. But when sell of an elanga like 3m and add one to make 5. Yall will pretend its because his wagers are high and he is supposedly talentless. Rather than the obvious. We are utter rubbish at the transfer business of selling talent. All our top 6 rivals can sell all sorts of players at decent prices. We specialize in selling at abnormal losses for the most part.
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Aren't we selling supposedly Elanga for like 15m? Telles was never going to be sold at a profit - we bought him when he was 28. Borges has performed better than any of our youth players have at youth level, probably bar Greenwood. There's a reason West ham want to pay that much for him and don't care about Elanga - yet we'll probably sell them for about the same price.
 
Revan said:
Luckily, we seem to start improving in this aspect. The transfers (and fees except Antony’s) seem to make sense. The new players are in reasonable salaries, and we got Rashford to sign in a reasonable salary (if we had Woodward and Judge, we probably would have offered 500k/week and make a story how an academy guy became the most paid player in the league), we did well in getting rid of Ronaldo, De Gea and hopefully soon Maguire, and slowly but surely, we are getting rid of some of the deadwood.

I think EtH deserves massive credit for making us look like a serious club again. Which shouldn’t have been his job in the first place, that’s what DoR does, but these events have been happening since he became manager.
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To be fair I'm not sure how much negotiating ETH is doing in terms of salaries and fees. If there is credit to be awarded there (and I don't know that there's a huge amount) it's probably more the strategic direction of Murtough and Arnold. We have to consider that even though they're "Glazer men" they haven't actually been in their current high profile roles that long and you can only really assess executives and directors when there is a sufficient body of data. Which means a number of years of transfer windows and renewals rather than match by match analysis on the sporting side.

But I agree with the thrust of the point that it's really the manager that has us looking a serious outfit. A great manager hides a multitude of sins, and it's hard to believe that much is hunky dory behind the scenes at the moment. The problem before was there was no single aspect working. The upper management was poor and the sporting management were exacerbating the issue.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Just another trove excuses justifying the indefensible. We just sold a Europa league winning fullback for a pittance. City meanwhile are selling an unknown, never played senior ball, Portuguese under age internartional to west ham for abnormal profits. Let's not pretend his a once in a generation player to justify the fee.....heck! We've seen Po sell the like of Ryan Kent, Harry Wilson and others for double digit figures. Players around the quality of Elanga. But when sell of an elanga like 3m and add one to make 5. Yall will pretend its because his wagers are high and he is supposedly talentless. Rather than the obvious. We are utter rubbish at the transfer business of selling talent. All our top 6 rivals can sell all sorts of players at decent prices. We specialize in selling at abnormal losses for the most part.
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Yawn.

We can't magically make clubs value our shit players. Telles is a run of the mill left back on top bracket wages. Difficult market right there. If we weren't selling to Saudi then it would be another loan.
 
Borussia Teeth said:
Yawn.

We can't magically make clubs value our shit players. Telles is a run of the mill left back on top bracket wages. Difficult market right there. If we weren't selling to Saudi then it would be another loan.
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Same old tired horse shit excuses. Supposedly "Our players are too shit", " their wages are too high", "we can only sale to Saudi Arabia'... Yet everyone around us and in Europe can sale their off form and arguable shit players for good fees not matter to where! (Just check what Juve had just got for Arthur Melo from a mere fiorentina.) Some of y'all give ostriches a run for their money when it comes to putting heads in the sand.....
 
Lash said:
Aren't we selling supposedly Elanga for like 15m? Telles was never going to be sold at a profit - we bought him when he was 28. ......
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Who needs him sold at a profit? He just helped win a Europa league, started for Brazil at the recent world cup and we seriously can't sell him for 8-10m? I'm not buying these constant excuses. We are provably rubbish at selling our talents.
 
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