Carrick was getting praise from all-comers last season while Scholes was still a coach and was consistently one of our best players right up until Scholes came.
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
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Carrick was getting praise from all-comers last season while Scholes was still a coach and was consistently one of our best players right up until Scholes came.
I'm a fan of Carrick, but that was anything but ok. The things he's usually very good at (ie. composure on the ball and accurate passing,) were completely missing today. I pray he gets that back because we have absolutely no one who can step in for him.
Yeah clev was poor. I'm hoping that he'll learn from this, he'a shown more maturity in other games and the Olympics. Hopefully if he plays for England he'll play in a central midfield role and not the number 10 again.
The guy has been a great player for us ever since signing. He had a shocker against Barca in 2009 (he was hardly the only one,) a patchy year in 2009-10, and another shocker today. Other than that, he's been incredibly reliable.
I just can't understand why, given Carrick's age, SAF hasn't brought in another player to strengthen the midfield.
It was a horrible performance but it's easily his worst game in 2012. Could be a once off, but I hope it's not one of his bad patches again. Big games coming up
I really don't think he was that bad, had some sloppy moments undoubtedly but really think his problem was due to a lack of an actual partner till scholes came on. The frailties at the back contributed a lot.
He had one really good block, but apart from that it was a 4/10 performance for me
Fair enough, think that's harsh, thought he kept us ticking over right considering he was on his own in the middle for much dye game. Also thought he managed to hold them up a bit which gave us time for clev/kagawa to get back. Played a few good passes as well. Certainly not at his best but not that poor imo. Two authoritive defenders and a midfield partner would have made a significant difference for me.
Not at his best but still put two great over the top balls onto Van Persie's foot.
Encouraging to see. Think that could be a useful weapon for us this season, seeing what Song did for Van Persie last season.
Encouraging to see. Think that could be a useful weapon for us this season, seeing what Song did for Van Persie last season.
you love our Michael don't you?
Agreed.
1 shit match, in which he got robbed a couple of times in possession, passing percentage was almost certainly a few digits below what's an 'average' range.
I think the fact his last 2 matches were @ CB meant that he was used to a bit more time (it's been since May since he'd have played in CM remember!) on the ball, and dallied around too much.
Encouraging was the fact he tried a dribble or 2 (1 failed horribly) and put in 2 great balls to RvP. Kinda like Song did.
I fully expect him to get back to last seasons standards, and provide a bit more attacking threat now that we have a 4231 formation which gives him a little bit more freedom.
I think the fact his last 2 matches were @ CB meant that he was used to a bit more time (it's been since May since he'd have played in CM remember!) on the ball, and dallied around too much.
Encouraging was the fact he tried a dribble or 2 (1 failed horribly) and put in 2 great balls to RvP. Kinda like Song did.
I fully expect him to get back to last seasons standards, and provide a bit more attacking threat now that we have a 4231 formation which gives him a little bit more freedom.
He looked kind of unfit. He wasn't tracking their runners although he wasn't the only one.
I was actually surprised at his completion stats. They were quite good.
That's honestly not bad. But I agree I did see the same poor form that he's displayed when tracking runners and not picking up players who move into his zone.
Also I just think that Tom Cleverley is just a completely different midfielder to Carrick. He's someone that passes and moves and looks for the ball again. When you have a static defensive type player who stays in his zone and doesn't move with you to open up your options I think it's just a bad combination. I think that is why he looked good with Anderson who is somewhat of the same type of ball to feet moving midfielder.
That's honestly not bad. But I agree I did see the same poor form that he's displayed when tracking runners and not picking up players who move into his zone.
Also I just think that Tom Cleverley is just a completely different midfielder to Carrick. He's someone that passes and moves and looks for the ball again. When you have a static defensive type player who stays in his zone and doesn't move with you to open up your options I think it's just a bad combination. I think that is why he looked good with Anderson who is somewhat of the same type of ball to feet moving midfielder.
he was average today, but I think that is just down to having played most of preseason and first couple of matches at CB - will take him a couple of weeks to get over it.
also can anyone tell me how many times Carrick and Cleverley have played as a CM partnership? I dont remember many times.
also can anyone tell me how many times Carrick and Cleverley have played as a CM partnership? I dont remember many times.
Exactly. It forced Kagawa to come very deep to build up and left Carrick by himself. The moment Scholes came on, Carrick looked like a completely different player. We can talk all we want about rustiness, dallying, etc. but if a partner switch changes a player's performance you have to wonder if the other partnership wasn't the problem and not one of the two in it.
When you pass it backwards and sideways to someone who's only 5 yards away, of course your passing completion is going to be high. He kept making these pointless sideways passes and only on few occasions delivered some great long balls. I'd like him to take more risks and pass it forwards.
Over half of his passes were forwards.
Carrick wasn't as bad as people are making out. Yes he didn't have the best of games but he was ok for the most part. We have to remember that he spent most of Pre season and the first two games playing as a CB where you get a bit more time on the ball. So its no surprise that he wasn't at his best when pushed back into midfield now. We need to give him a few games to get back in the grove of things.
Not worried about him at all.Just like it was said, I think playing at the back (and with the poor performances we know of) hindered him.It's an issue of rhythm, his season started yesterday
Was poor at centre back and now poor in central midfield. Not a good start from Carrick. The way he dallies sometimes on the ball and letting someone creep up from behind and knick the ball of him is really annoying. Then again the whole team performance was abysmal so we have to improve collectively rather than individually.
I wonder if anyone calls "man coming" to him when he is dallying. It seems we don't have someone vocal on the field at times.
That was a disease affecting a lot of the team yesterday, including the defence.
There was this moment when Vidic had the ball and dallied for about a full half minute before hoofing it across to the right wing, too far and out for a throw, that was a real
.We seemed to be like 'Eh, what do we do next? Lets see. Erm... hoof it up ?' And then while contemplating that, if closed down or dispossessed, had a bemused response like, 'eh, how dare they close us down' ?
Yeah.. probably this pairing doesn't work.
I wonder how Clev + Scholes would work though..?
As of now.. i think the pairings that might work are Carrick + Scholes/giggs OR Clev + Anderson.
Can't say our midfields shite, but still, would've given an arm and a leg to see us buy, say, Tiote and Dembele in the window
- Would give us options we haven't really had for a while now. (I know, Dembele's an Anderson upgrade, but we've waited really long for Anderson to become the midfield boss we still hope he'll become. IMO if in this season Anderson doesn't show up, he's out. )That was a disease affecting a lot of the team yesterday, including the defence.
There was this moment when Vidic had the ball and dallied for about a full half minute before hoofing it across to the right wing, too far and out for a throw, that was a real
We seemed to be like 'Eh, what do we do next? Lets see. Erm... hoof it up ?' And then while contemplating that, if closed down or dispossessed, had a bemused response like, 'eh, how dare they close us down' ?
Oh don't get me started on our general dallying on the ball. It's like we're playing with a bowling ball sometimes. "Urhgh, must be careful with this thing, might hurt someone, have to be cautious..."
And for some reason Vidic became our playmaker at times yesterday, taking twenty touches of the ball while everyone else rushed forward to create some sort of dynamic attacking machinery. And then Vidic would give it away because, you know, he's a defender.
But seriously, it's one thing to dally and let teams cut out all your passing options. And it's another to dally and let someone take the ball off you. It screams of a lack of focus.
If changing positions was so easy then every player would be capable of playing all over the field.
He played CB for the last two matches and some in preseason, switching back to CM where you have even less time for reaction takes time to get used again and no wonder he got caught few times yesterday with somehow slower reaction to pass then usually.
He'll come good of course, just hope I'll never again see him playing CB!
He played CB for the last two matches and some in preseason, switching back to CM where you have even less time for reaction takes time to get used again and no wonder he got caught few times yesterday with somehow slower reaction to pass then usually.
He'll come good of course, just hope I'll never again see him playing CB!
It is the responsibility of ones around him to give him a shout if someone's closing him from behind.
Like I said think people are looking at Carrick as the issue when it was Clev. Carrick had some poor moments but in general he was fine but he was let down by Clev who chose poor moments to go forward. I don't think it's anything to do with their styles not matching, Carrick has played with plenty of different partners and excelled and even played with clev before with england in a motm display, even if Clev played further ahead in that game. Yest the main problem was Clev going forward at poor moments, when he stayed deeper he and Carrick had control, but when he went forward he got in Kagawa's way and really reduced our ability to pass the ball out well.
I think this is all a bit of Lucas Leiva syndrome, people have spent the whole Summer bigging up how crucial and irreplaceable Carrick is so as soon as he plays his first game in midfield everyone expects him to be a mixture of Keane and Pirlo.
He really was OK, all things considered.
One thing I've just noticed that Carrick was doing in the first half was getting the ball under no pressure and on the quarter-turn hitting an angled ball back to one of the CB's for them to just play a first time ball into the space where he's completed his full turn to take the ball up.
I don't think any of our other midfielders really get that kind of service. Whenever I see Anderson, Cleverley and Scholes in those positions they usually have the spacial awareness to take the ball on the dribble and just complete the turn and take the ball up. It's something odd Carrick has done for a couple of years now.
I don't really understand it.
I don't think any of our other midfielders really get that kind of service. Whenever I see Anderson, Cleverley and Scholes in those positions they usually have the spacial awareness to take the ball on the dribble and just complete the turn and take the ball up. It's something odd Carrick has done for a couple of years now.
I don't really understand it.
Kagawa looked out of sorts too, so it wasn't just Carrick.
I think that Southampton's pressing along with Welbeck perhaps in an unaccustomed role and drifting into strange positions meant that Carrick had a more difficult job to do.
It's not like he was bad though.
I think that Southampton's pressing along with Welbeck perhaps in an unaccustomed role and drifting into strange positions meant that Carrick had a more difficult job to do.
It's not like he was bad though.
Carrick were poor yesterday, but he certainly wasn't the only one. Hopefully it is just a one off.
I didn't think Kagawa was overly poor yesterday to be honest, we just didn't get him involved in the game often enough for me.
This is only a passing suggestion, so bear with me here: Could we not try and wake him up prior to kick off the next time?
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Michael Carrick vs Southampton: More passes than anyone on the pitch (115/126) and more attacking 1/3 passes than anyone (25/29)
Michael Carrick vs Southampton: More passes than anyone on the pitch (115/126) and more attacking 1/3 passes than anyone (25/29)
Give him time. Jesus feckin christ people.
What is the record? I think it's 140odd from Yaya
It's a wonder Van Persie and Saf didnt think he was man of the match eh?
He wasn't that bad. not as bad as some are making out. Clev and Kagawa were shocking in comparison, if by nothing else but their almost complete anonymity.
Carrick cannot do it all on his own, and tbh he didn't shrink away even though it wasn't really happening for him. I was impressed by the way he continued to take responsibility and tried to make things happen.
His contribution was not his best, but i think it showed how he has grown as a player that he didn't disappear in adversity, as he surely would have done a couple of years ago. He continued to show for the ball, making the passes and trying to make a difference. Sometimes that is all you can ask of a player, some of the reactions on here are a disgrace, considering that is one of the few below par performances we have seen from him in over a season.
Those slagging him better hope and pray that he stays fit, because without him you will soon see what a huge difference he makes to our midfield, and how shockingly exposed we will be without him.
Very difficult to make the play and track the runners on your own. TC did neither. His was an extremely poor contribution in my view.
Agreed, but all that suggests is that he will always be ineffective in a 2 man midfield. He needs a player like Anderson, but because of the defensively suspect nature of that pairing, they need the security of a holding player behind them. TC surprised me by how ineffective he became under pressure, he really just disappeared and did not even do a job defensively.
I think calls he may replace Scholes in a midfield 2 have been temporarily silenced after such a sobering display, against a very average but determined team.