African Cup of Nations 2021 (played in 2022) | Final: Senegal v Egypt, 7 PM UK time

Lay said:
Another 1-0 :lol:

Now I don’t have much to go on, but over a decade ago I recall a few African ex players bemoaning the amount of European coaches in Africa, that it’s making the matches boring as they’re too tactical and defensive. Does that have any merit or is just other factors?
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Like them all betting on unders?

Not been following the tournament but that's a mad set of results.
 
We need an rvn said:
And this incident is exactly why the CAF is not taking seriously and is classed as a second rank international competition

How can a referee who was under investigation for corruption in 2018 be allowed to referee an international match again, and then do this by with blowing the whistle early, 2x, plus no added time. Not saying he shouldn't be a referee, just do it at a level where the corruption isn't at an international stage
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Only idiots classify it as such to be honest, and they aren't worth listening to
 
adexkola said:
Only idiots classify it as such to be honest, and they aren't worth listening to
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I didn't really see anybody call Copa America second rank when law enforcement stormed the pitch during an actual game and forcibly removed players from the pitch.
 
We need an rvn said:
And this incident is exactly why the CAF is not taking seriously and is classed as a second rank international competition

How can a referee who was under investigation for corruption in 2018 be allowed to referee an international match again, and then do this by with blowing the whistle early, 2x, plus no added time. Not saying he shouldn't be a referee, just do it at a level where the corruption isn't at an international stage
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Only by people who had made their minds up and are looking for any excuse to justify it, based on a one-off event. When fans stormed Wembley, did that make the EUROS a joke? Because let's be honest, if it happened at the AFCON, you would have spouted the same rubbish.
 
adexkola said:
Only idiots classify it as such to be honest, and they aren't worth listening to
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To be fair it literally is second rank although I wouldn't say that's why, just the standard of football.

It cannot realistically be rated in the same bracket as the Euros or Copa America. It's definitely better than the Oceania Nations Cup.

That leaves this, the AFC Asian Cup and the CONCACAF Gold Cup (propped up by 2 teams most of the time) in a that second tier.

That's not to say it isn't very important for fans/players etc. All these tournaments are.
 
Chipper said:
To be fair it literally is second rank although I wouldn't say that's why, just the standard of football.

It cannot realistically be rated in the same bracket as the Euros or Copa America. It's definitely better than the Oceania Nations Cup.

That leaves this, the AFC Asian Cup and the CONCACAF Gold Cup (propped up by 2 teams most of the time) in a that second tier.
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I disagree, the best player in the prem this season is African.

There's 2 African former PFA player of the years that are currently playing in the prem. Edouard Mendy recently won the best goalkeeper in Europe.

In the last 6 years, 4 of the 6 Golden Boot winners in the EPL were African.

This season the top scorer in the Europa league and the UCL are both African.

I could go on...

If this a sub tier competition, so is European club football. :lol: :lol:
 
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the_cliff said:
I disagree, the best player in the prem this season is African.

There's 2 African former PFA player of the years that are currently playing in the prem. Edouard Mendy recently won the best goalkeeper in Europe.

In the last 6 years, 4 of the 6 Golden Boot winners in the EPL were African.

This season the top scorer in the Europa league and the UCL are both African.

I could go on...

If this a sub tier competition, so is European club football. :lol: :lol:
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Yes, because football is about who your best individual is. It's not a team sport and it doesn't matter that African teams consistently do worse thatn European and South American teams at World Cups. We'll just ignore that and pretend they're on the same level because they have some good players.
 
the_cliff said:
I disagree, the best player in the prem this season is African.

There's 2 African former PFA player of the years that are currently playing in the prem. Edouard Mendy recently won the best goalkeeper in Europe.

In the last 6 years, 4 of the 6 Golden Boot winners in the EPL were African.

This season the top scorer in the Europa league and the UCL are both African.

I could go on...

If this a sub tier competition, so is European club football. :lol: :lol:
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It is a 2nd tier tournament ability wise though. The average level isn’t great. There’s world class players but they are definitely not the norm compared to Copa and Euros. For every Salah and Mane there’s a few 2nd/3rd/4th tier level players from Spain/France.

I’m a big fan of the competition and follow it along with the qualifiers, African Nations Championship etc but standard wise it isn’t close to the Euros or the Copa. It is above the Gold Cup though, probably on a par with Asia. It isn’t an insult to say it’s not close to the level of the Euros/Copa.
 
That ref in the Mali and Tunisia game might have some explaining to do :lol: :lol:
What a farce.
 
Some of the takes about this tournament are very smelly, but if I speak.
 
Chipper said:
Yes, because football is about who your best individual is. It's not a team sport.
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A total of 36 Players from the premier league are at the AFCON, not including players like Emannuel Dennis, Matip and Ziyech that either weren't allowed to go or didn't get called up.
That's not including the French League (Where the majority are), the Italian league and the Spanish league. Iirc the number of top flight players from the top 5 leagues that are at the Afcon is around 150.

So again I'll say,
If this a sub tier competition, so is European club football.

Spiersey said:
It is a 2nd tier tournament ability wise though. The average level isn’t great. There’s world class players but they are definitely not the norm compared to Copa and Euros. For every Salah and Mane there’s a few 2nd/3rd/4th tier level players from Spain/France.

I’m a big fan of the competition and follow it along with the qualifiers, African Nations Championship etc but standard wise it isn’t close to the Euros or the Copa. It is above the Gold Cup though, probably on a par with Asia. It isn’t an insult to say it’s not close to the level of the Euros/Copa.
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More European based players play in the AFCON than the Copa America or the Asian cup.

You seem to be forgetting that even in the Copa there are teams like Venezuela, Peru and Bolivia. The majority of the players in those teams play in their home countries or in the MLS and Peru got to the semis.

In Africa you have more of a level playing field with a lot of very good teams like Algeria, Cameroon, Nigeria, Senegal, Morocco, Ivory Coast. Who's majority players play in the biggest teams in Europe and some would start for the biggest teams in Europe and South America.

I'm not saying the general level is the same as the Euros, but to compare it to the Asian cup is a bit too far. The top teams are closer to the Euro's/Copa level than the Asian cup or the gold cup.
 
What is wrong with something being 2nd tier. The Eredivisie is a` 2nd maybe 3th tier club competition. It still matters the most to me of any competition. The level is clearly behind the Euro's and South America hence 2nd tier. Don't see anything wrong with that qualification at all.
 
adexkola said:
Why are you still watching it then? I felt the same way about '89 Serie A and I switched off after the first 3 games...
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I like all continental tournaments. Apart from the Gold Cup, never held my interest. I used to watch the AFCON, Asian Cup, Copa America, Euro's all the time.
 
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adexkola said:
Only idiots classify it as such to be honest, and they aren't worth listening to
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Why? He isn't far away with what he said. People need to seperate individual players from everything else around tournament.

WeePat said:
I didn't really see anybody call Copa America second rank when law enforcement stormed the pitch during an actual game and forcibly removed players from the pitch.
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If you break the rules you are going to be removed. What are law enforcemen going to do? Just watch? And yes, it isn't world most greatest tounament either but step up from what we are witnessing now.

babablue said:
Only by people who had made their minds up and are looking for any excuse to justify it, based on a one-off event. When fans stormed Wembley, did that make the EUROS a joke? Because let's be honest, if it happened at the AFCON, you would have spouted the same rubbish.
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Euro's were kind of joke. Playing in pretty much every country, different rules for different countries when it comes to Covid rules. Some teams got lucky by playing at home almost every game. So yes, Euros were kind of joke.
 
the_cliff said:
More European based players play in the AFCON than the Copa America or the Asian cup.

You seem to be forgetting that even in the Copa there are teams like Venezuela, Peru and Bolivia. The majority of the players in those teams play in their home countries or in the MLS and Peru got to the semis.

In Africa you have more of a level playing field with a lot of very good teams like Algeria, Cameroon, Nigeria, Senegal, Morocco, Ivory Coast. Who's majority players play in the biggest teams in Europe and some would start for the biggest teams in Europe and South America.

I'm not saying the general level is the same as the Euros, but to compare it to the Asian cup is a bit too far. The top teams are closer to the Euro's/Copa level than the Asian cup or the gold cup.
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There may be more European based players but a decent amount are playing in poor leagues or lower tiers. The bottom level of players in Afcon is very low (for international level).


They’re the worst teams in SA but still a pretty good level for the worst sides bar Bolivia. Peru been very strong in recent times, 2018 side was very good. I’d say the middle level of Colom, Uruguay and Chile is a very good average level.

The top teams in asia are good, Japan and South Korea would give the best African sides a good game. There is the similar issue with the lower tier players being a low level though and there isn’t a great deal of depth outside those two + Iran. I’d have Afcon being better quality but I don’t think there’s that much in it.

A big issue for Afcon imo is that the top players don’t often play at their top level due to conditions. The heat + humidity don’t help. The pitches are an issue too, often the bounce is weird as well as a lack of prep for the tournament. With the current heat teams are settling for 1-0 wins with no interest in winning by 2, which makes the games look poorer too. I’m sure the quality would increase if it was held in better conditions and with 2/3 weeks of prep before the tournament.
 
It's just so badly organised, which tends to be the case with some African countries. I spent quite a lot of time in Kenya and when it came to mass events, they couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery so I'm not surprised this is happening in Cameroon which is a lot less developed that Kenya.

I like it though, almost part of the charm of AFCON :lol:
 
the_cliff said:
A total of 36 Players from the premier league are at the AFCON, not including players like Emannuel Dennis, Matip and Ziyech that either weren't allowed to go or didn't get called up.
That's not including the French League (Where the majority are), the Italian league and the Spanish league. Iirc the number of top flight players from the top 5 leagues that are at the Afcon is around 150.

]b]So again I'll say,
If this a sub tier competition, so is European club football.[/b]


More European based players play in the AFCON than the Copa America or the Asian cup.

You seem to be forgetting that even in the Copa there are teams like Venezuela, Peru and Bolivia. The majority of the players in those teams play in their home countries or in the MLS and Peru got to the semis.

In Africa you have more of a level playing field with a lot of very good teams like Algeria, Cameroon, Nigeria, Senegal, Morocco, Ivory Coast. Who's majority players play in the biggest teams in Europe and some would start for the biggest teams in Europe and South America.

I'm not saying the general level is the same as the Euros, but to compare it to the Asian cup is a bit too far. The top teams are closer to the Euro's/Copa level than the Asian cup or the gold cup.
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I'm not even trying to shit on it, you say in your reply to Spiersy that it's not the same general level as the Euros. If something is top level, and you're agreeing that it isn't here as there is something better than it, then isn't it fair to describe it as second tier?

Again second tier can be/is good. The Commonwealth Games is a second tier multi-sport event. I used to love watching that although I've kind of dipped out of both that and the Olympics as I've got older. The Championship is literally second-tier in England, it's really good in my opinion. Much worse than second tier can be good too. I've watched the National League or the Welsh league on tv before and enjoyed it.

For me, I'd say it is behind the Copa America and the Euros. I think it's probably third best but then it depends where you want to bracket it. You could go tier 1 = Europe/SA, tier 2 = Africa/Asia, tier 3 = Oceania/NA if putting 2 in each tier. Mind you, NA is a funny one as Mexico and USA can be strong at times and as good as Africa's or Asia's best. They're also miles ahead of Oceania which is why I also included them in the second tier at first.

As a bit of an aside I would hope there are more AFCON players in Europe's leagues than Copa players considering there's 24 teams instead of 10 in the tournament. That's not even getting into colonialism/immigration patterns. Not really a like for like comparison there.
 
The tournament used to be better and more entertaining than this. This has been a shit show and I don't expect it to improve that much. Most of the well known big guns are shit, and increasing the number of teams doesn't help the quality either.

The 2008 tournament was probably the one I had the most fun following and watching. This year was overall great though, Euro 2008 was also a fantastic watch.
 


An unforgettable night for Gambia who achieved their first ever win in the competition.
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WeePat said:
Even Renard. He went from managing some no mark French club languishing in the 5th division to the Zambian national team just like that. He's since managed 4 other African national teams with a varied levels of success but he certainly didn't get his foot in the door on merit.
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Renard should be made to coach every side on the basis that Dude Be Hot :drool:
 
the_cliff said:
I disagree, the best player in the prem this season is African.

There's 2 African former PFA player of the years that are currently playing in the prem. Edouard Mendy recently won the best goalkeeper in Europe.

In the last 6 years, 4 of the 6 Golden Boot winners in the EPL were African.

This season the top scorer in the Europa league and the UCL are both African.

I could go on...

If this a sub tier competition, so is European club football. :lol: :lol:
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Gareth Bale has 4 CL medals, Wales clearly the greatest team in the world.
 
Seen a rumor or two that the referee had a heat stroke in the game yesterday which could explain some of his actions, if he did then i hope he's ok now.
 
Meet Salima Mukansanga, the first woman set to referee an AFCON game



She was the fourth official for Guinea's 1-0 victory over Malawi on Monday, and is expected to take the reins as a central referee later this week.

The 33-year-old Rwandan official was involved in matches at the Tokyo Olympics and the Women's World Cup in France, and now eyes the Nations Cup as an opportunity to prove that there should be no barriers for women referees within the men's game.

CLICK ME FOR MORE
 
Gandalf said:
Gareth Bale has 4 CL medals, Wales clearly the greatest team in the world.
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Bale on his current level is nowhere near the level of Mané, Osimhen, or Salah. But that is not the point he is making. There are at least 7/8 African teams that are better than Wales. But you are not too far off, when Bale and Ramsey were at a decent level, Wales reached the 2016 Euro semifinals deservedly. The Cameroon of early 2000 would have destroyed the Greece that won the Euros. Egypt 2009 defeated world champions Italy in the Confederations Cup. Ghana in 2010 should have been in the sem-finals of the WC. Algeria 2014 took Germany to the extra time.

This summer we had Danmark making it to the semifinals, with players of the same caliber as the African ones you are dismissing as second tier. Some of Danmark's best performers in the summer were Maehle, Damsgaard (Sampdoria), Dolberg (Nice) etc
 
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WeePat said:
I didn't really see anybody call Copa America second rank when law enforcement stormed the pitch during an actual game and forcibly removed players from the pitch.
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If you're talking about Brazil - Argentina, it was a WC qualifier.
 
The real question is why would people come into a thread where people are enjoying an ongoing competition just to call it second tier or even come in here to say, "See? There you go, more evidence that it is a isht tournament." What is the actual point of that discussion in this thread?

You're ruining the thread for the rest of us trying to enjoy the tournament.
 
babablue said:
Only by people who had made their minds up and are looking for any excuse to justify it, based on a one-off event. When fans stormed Wembley, did that make the EUROS a joke? Because let's be honest, if it happened at the AFCON, you would have spouted the same rubbish.
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Completely different things. Fans fighting etc is something that happens in so many leagues and events across the globe - and they're all a bunch of idiots who do it too and I condone it every time.

Letting a corrupt referee manage a game at Africa's biggest event though is a joke and something that can easily be avoided.

adexkola said:
Only idiots classify it as such to be honest, and they aren't worth listening to
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Are you saying it is a smart decision to appoint a referee who was investigated for corruption at a major event, and then does what he did for the whole world to see? Not to mention playing the wrong national anthem twice at a different match.

And let's not forget the ongoing situation with South Africa / Ghana and Bafana a few months back for world cup qualification...
 
We need an rvn said:
Completely different things. Fans fighting etc is something that happens in so many leagues and events across the globe - and they're all a bunch of idiots who do it too and I condone it every time.

Letting a corrupt referee manage a game at Africa's biggest event though is a joke and something that can easily be avoided.


Are you saying it is a smart decision to appoint a referee who was investigated for corruption at a major event, and then does what he did for the whole world to see? Not to mention playing the wrong national anthem twice at a different match.

And let's not forget the ongoing situation with South Africa / Ghana and Bafana a few months back for world cup qualification...
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The same thing happened in La Liga just last season:
https://www.90min.com/in/posts/la-l...n-calls-players-back-to-play-the-final-minute

As far as I know he was cleared by FIFA from any wrong doing. Maybe you know more if he was proven guilty then I'll agree with your point and CAF have made a very stupid mistake.

Apparently CAF have released a statement saying the ref was suffering from heatstroke and he thought that at 79 minutes it was 89 minutes, hence why he signalled for 5 minutes added time at 79. It is 36 degrees and like 80% Humidity at the moment so it's not exactly impossible but at the same time they could be trying to save face.

Generally I think the level of refereeing has been decent at this afcon other than this game where he made some absolute shockers in the last 10 minutes.
 
We need an rvn said:
Are you saying it is a smart decision to appoint a referee who was investigated for corruption at a major event, and then does what he did for the whole world to see? Not to mention playing the wrong national anthem twice at a different match.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...est-match-fixing-investigation-380-games.html

Corruption is everywhere. Manchester City have been toying with UEFA's FFP rules for a decade. We might not investigate it but half of the premier league clubs are owned by families and oligarchs with much more corruption on their baggage than any African football chief you can think of.

The referring yesterday was poor. The referee (who seems to have had a heat stroke) did a terrible job. There is no denying that and it will be investigated. But that happens.

And yes, previously suspended referees do work in top European leagues. A few weeks ago Jude Bellingham was whining about the background of Felix Zwayer...
 
We need an rvn said:
Letting a corrupt referee manage a game at Africa's biggest event though is a joke and something that can easily be avoided.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Zwayer
"He is a FIFA referee, and is ranked as a UEFA elite category "
"accepted a bribe of 300 euros to avoid critical scenes"

I'm tempted to ask whether these double standards are ignorance or racism.
 
the_cliff said:
I disagree, the best player in the prem this season is African.

There's 2 African former PFA player of the years that are currently playing in the prem. Edouard Mendy recently won the best goalkeeper in Europe.

In the last 6 years, 4 of the 6 Golden Boot winners in the EPL were African.

This season the top scorer in the Europa league and the UCL are both African.

I could go on...

If this a sub tier competition, so is European club football. :lol: :lol:
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You're seriously saying that a few of the teams having one or two world class players means that this is comparable to European club football, where at least 95% of the world's best players spend their careers?

I'm seeing a trend this week of people saying ridiculous things about this tournament...
 
GD5
Right... Another day. The second match for these teams playing today. Let's hope the shenanigans of yesterday are behind the tournament.



Cape Verde have a really good team. They were this close to qualifying ahead of Nigeria for the final stage of WC qualifying games (more on this near the end of this tournament). They play a quick tempo game, so it'll be interesting to see how they fair against Burkina Faso. Their center forward, Tavares, is really good at running behind and holding up play too.

Think Cameroon will easily win against Ethiopia. 1-0 of course.
 
Noot said:
You're seriously saying that a few of the teams having one or two world class players means that this is comparable to European club football, where at least 95% of the world's best players spend their careers?

I'm seeing a trend this week of people saying ridiculous things about this tournament...
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Again I'll mention more than 150 players at the AFCON play in Europe's top 5 leagues.

To say the level is low is not true. It may not be as good as the Euros or even the COPA America, but this notion that the AFCON is some farmers championship needs to stop.

Once the knockout stages are reached and the weaker teams get knocked out of the group stage. The majority of the players, 90% would be from the top 5 leagues in Europe therefore making it of a good level no ?

You yourself just said that in European club football 95% of the worlds best players play there. So the majority of the AFCON players (especially once you reach the round of 16 play their club football in Europe).

For example yesterday, Hannibal played against a midfield of Bissouma, Haidara and Samassekou, which is probably the toughest opponent he's ever come up against in his career till now and it was in the AFCON.
 
adexkola said:
Right... Another day. The second match for these teams playing today. Let's hope the shenanigans of yesterday are behind the tournament.



Cape Verde have a really good team. They were this close to qualifying ahead of Nigeria for the final stage of WC qualifying games (more on this near the end of this tournament). They play a quick tempo game, so it'll be interesting to see how they fair against Burkina Faso. Their center forward, Tavares, is really good at running behind and holding up play too.

Think Cameroon will easily win against Ethiopia. 1-0 of course.
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Cameroon got a decent chance of winning by 2 with crowd pushing them on against weaker opposition I think. They did struggle in the heat first game though.

Think the weather hurts Cape Verde too, hard to play at a good tempo in the heat. I can see both sides taking a draw. Cape are 100% through with a point and Burkino will probably fancy their chances of beating Ethiopia in a shootout in the last game.
 
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