Adama Traore

simonhch said:
He has really poor stamina though because of the oxygen demands of all that unnecessary upper body muscle (uneccesssary for a footballer).

It goes to show two things:

1. how a fresh start can benefit a player
2. The relative current weakness of la liga in general whereby players like Aubameyang and Traore, who were not up to snuff in the PL, can go to Barca and look top class. It’s just not as demanding week in, week out. The top level is up there with the best, but the depths of demand, especially physically are just not on a par with the PL. which is undoubtedly the most unforgiving league on the planet.
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Absolute rubbish. Coutinho has been doing much better with Aston Villa than he had with Barca, meanwhile Hazard has fallen off a cliff since he cam to La Liga. The nonsense about the PL is reaching ridiculous levels. La Liga is weaker than PL, but the PL is petty dross after City and Liverpool like many of the other top leagues.

Mid-table teams in EPL aren't much better than mid table teams in La Liga.
 
simonhch said:
He has really poor stamina though because of the oxygen demands of all that unnecessary upper body muscle (uneccesssary for a footballer).

It goes to show two things:

1. how a fresh start can benefit a player
2. The relative current weakness of la liga in general whereby players like Aubameyang and Traore, who were not up to snuff in the PL, can go to Barca and look top class. It’s just not as demanding week in, week out. The top level is up there with the best, but the depths of demand, especially physically are just not on a par with the PL. which is undoubtedly the most unforgiving league on the planet.
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Hazard was one of the best PL players in the century, and has failed miserably in La Liga.
Kante was nowhere near to be considered top midfielder when he was playing in Ligue 1, and managed to be the best midfielder for Chelsea and Leicester in PL.
Tielemans is doing well in PL after flopping at Monaco.

There are many reasons why a players does better in one league, not just the level of the league.

If the problem was to be PL proven, then PL would be dominated by players made in PL, but most of the current best PL players aren't made in PL, they came from Portugal,Spain,France, Germany,etc
 
The simple fact of the matter is he offers something entirely novel for Barcelona and it’s really working right now.

Few players can offer the pace and strength that Adama possesses. He’s very far from a world beater but if you get him wide (which he’s totally happy to do, not many wingers are these days) and isolated he will do the things he’s really fecking good at — progressing the ball up the field very quickly and being involved in some capacity for a chance to be created.

Now there are very obviously shortfalls to his game but those haven’t crept up yet. We’ll see how he goes the longer the season goes at Barcelona
 
simonhch said:
Individual results are not the point. Even overlooking that Inter lost and Atlético drew. It’s that in the PL, the intensity is there every single game, it’s unforgiving. That’s just not the case elsewhere.
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First of all we will have to define what we mean by intensity. Then from there we can agree or not.
 
Daysleeper said:
Absolute rubbish. Coutinho has been doing much better with Aston Villa than he had with Barca, meanwhile Hazard has fallen off a cliff since he cam to La Liga. The nonsense about the PL is reaching ridiculous levels. La Liga is weaker than PL, but the PL is petty dross after City and Liverpool like many of the other top leagues.

Mid-table teams in EPL aren't much better than mid table teams in La Liga.
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Yes but our league is unpredictable… you have Leicester winning the league one year and challenging for a top 4 place but now are mid table and wolves are the ones up the top end of the table this year. Next year we could see Newcastle rise up there (depending on if they stay up) there’s always that one outside team that challenges the other top teams for the 4th spot.
 
simonhch said:
He has really poor stamina though because of the oxygen demands of all that unnecessary upper body muscle (uneccesssary for a footballer).

It goes to show two things:

1. how a fresh start can benefit a player
2. The relative current weakness of la liga in general whereby players like Aubameyang and Traore, who were not up to snuff in the PL, can go to Barca and look top class. It’s just not as demanding week in, week out. The top level is up there with the best, but the depths of demand, especially physically are just not on a par with the PL. which is undoubtedly the most unforgiving league on the planet.
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Nah, it's much more of a case of playing for a very defensive Wolves team with very few good attackers / finishers. It's natural that in a more attacking team with better finishers he'll be more productive.

It's the same lazy tropes as with Saint Maximin, if you actually watch their play regularly you can see that they're good, they just play in dog shite attacks.

Conversely also why Sancho won't be as good as his Dortmund stats. Context of the team they play/played for.
 
Why do people use a small sample of matches to try and prove they were right, when the logical thing is to wait a while longer, and see? He's been very poor at Wolves for a long time - so the sample is much bigger. Maybe he improves and reaches his potential - then kudos to him and Barca.

And why do others feel the need the belittle the quality of the league if said player does well? There are so many factors at play and not just because "PL is so much better than every other league right now".

You guys :lol:
 
DJ_21 said:
Yes but our league is unpredictable… you have Leicester winning the league one year and challenging for a top 4 place but now are mid table and wolves are the ones up the top end of the table this year. Next year we could see Newcastle rise up there (depending on if they stay up) there’s always that one outside team that challenges the other top teams for the 4th spot.
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Leicester was an exception. Other than that, League has been pretty much dominated by Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool last decade.
 
Lord SInister said:
Leicester was an exception. Other than that, League has been pretty much dominated by Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool last decade.
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Yes that’s true for the title but I mean for like the top 4 spots. You don’t see getafe breaking into the top 4 of la liga Like you’d see Leicester/ West Ham challenging for top 4 in prem.
 
marktan said:
Nah, it's much more of a case of playing for a very defensive Wolves team with very few good attackers / finishers. It's natural that in a more attacking team with better finishers he'll be more productive.

It's the same lazy tropes as with Saint Maximin, if you actually watch their play regularly you can see that they're good, they just play in dog shite attacks.

Conversely also why Sancho won't be as good as his Dortmund stats. Context of the team they play/played for.
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That's an argument that applies to anyone.
 
Ish said:
Why do people use a small sample of matches to try and prove they were right, when the logical thing is to wait a while longer, and see? He's been very poor at Wolves for a long time - so the sample is much bigger. Maybe he improves and reaches his potential - then kudos to him and Barca.

And why do others feel the need the belittle the quality of the league if said player does well? There are so many factors at play and not just because "PL is so much better than every other league right now".

You guys :lol:
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Because this forum is hilariously reactionary. As soon as one of the players everyone shits on has 1 good game they come flocking saying YOU WERE WRONG. Happens with our own players aswell. Rashford was shit for almost 2 years now and some people are just finding that out now
 
GifLord said:
Because this forum is hilariously reactionary. As soon as one of the players everyone shits on has 1 good game they come flocking saying YOU WERE WRONG. Happens with our own players aswell. Rashford was shit for almost 2 years now and some people are just finding that out now
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100%, rinse and repeat!
 
Barcelona are playing him to his strenghts, and they have the talent to convert what he does into chances and goals

He's not playing better than he did for wolves right now, he's just in a context that better suits him. He's always been a very good player
 
simonhch said:
He has really poor stamina though because of the oxygen demands of all that unnecessary upper body muscle (uneccesssary for a footballer).

It goes to show two things:


Precaution said:
Depay started off in fine form too and look what happened to him, reverted to type
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Depay does not understand the barcelona game, holds the ball too much, does not have a good decision making, presses little
Adama with less technical quality, has much better understanding of the game.

Depay will probably leave in the summer, he is not a player for Barcelona.

DJ_21 said:
Yes but our league is unpredictable… you have Leicester winning the league one year and challenging for a top 4 place but now are mid table and wolves are the ones up the top end of the table this year. Next year we could see Newcastle rise up there (depending on if they stay up) there’s always that one outside team that challenges the other top teams for the 4th spot.
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Leicester won that league because the level of the big teams was very low, regrettable. That year the level of the premier league was horrific.

In all leagues there are teams with big changes from one year to the next in the standings. Look at Leipzig, Lille for example.

In Spain Getafe was 2 years about to enter the champions league and now for not being relegated.

Obviously if you have a lot of money to sign the successes and mistakes it makes the changes in the classification more pronounced.
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giorno said:
Barcelona are playing him to his strenghts, and they have the talent to convert what he does into chances and goals

He's not playing better than he did for wolves right now, he's just in a context that better suits him. He's always been a very good player
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Totally agree, he plays in a tactical context that he learned many years and it is normal that there he stands out more.
 
SilentWitness said:
3/4 English teams are in good shape in the CL. Wouldn’t be surprising to see one of them in the final.
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I agree, but the top 2 in epl are amazing…the rest…not so much. And for the record, it’s obviously better than la liga but I think people act like it’s so far ahead of the other leagues is a bit bizarre.
 
GifLord said:
Because this forum is hilariously reactionary. As soon as one of the players everyone shits on has 1 good game they come flocking saying YOU WERE WRONG. Happens with our own players aswell. Rashford was shit for almost 2 years now and some people are just finding that out now
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Your last sentence completely contradicts your first.
 
DJ_21 said:
Yes but our league is unpredictable… you have Leicester winning the league one year and challenging for a top 4 place but now are mid table and wolves are the ones up the top end of the table this year. Next year we could see Newcastle rise up there (depending on if they stay up) there’s always that one outside team that challenges the other top teams for the 4th spot.
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You’re league is one of the most predictable in recent years. City have won 4/5 titles. They are winning now. And if they don’t win, who would? Oh right, Liverpool. It’s not much different than La Liga 2012 when it was a two horse league. Leicester was an anomaly. City winning the league again would be very predictable.
 
Daysleeper said:
You’re league is one of the most predictable in recent years. City have won 4/5 titles. They are winning now. And if they don’t win, who would? Oh right, Liverpool. It’s not much different than La Liga 2012 when it was a two horse league. Leicester was an anomaly. City winning the league again would be very predictable.
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Go back 15 years and who were the two teams most likely to win the PL? Not Liverpool or City.

Go back 15 years in Spain and who were the two teams most likely to win the league? The exact same two teams it’s been ever since. Now that is what a two horse race looks like.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Go back 15 years and who were the two teams most likely to win the PL? Not Liverpool or City.

Go back 15 years in Spain and who were the two teams most likely to win the league? The exact same two teams it’s been ever since. Now that is what a two horse race looks like.
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100% spot on.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Your last sentence completely contradicts your first.
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You had people literally shat on when they pointed out Rashford's flaws during the past 2-3 years. For some people it was enough just to score a tap in goal and he was considered to having had a good game even though performance wise he was one of the worst on the pitch. This kept going on for a year. Same with Maguire. People saying he wasn't that bad in the previous seasons. Oh yes he was and the excuses just prove my point. 1st season He needs a better partner Lindeloff is not good enough was being mentioned multiple times, 2nd season the incident in Greece fecked with him mentally. 3rd season wait for it. Burned out due to Euros. I'm really done with these nobodies we have as our players.
 
GifLord said:
You had people literally shat on when they pointed out Rashford's flaws during the past 2-3 years. For some people it was enough just to score a tap in goal and he was considered to having had a good game even though performance wise he was one of the worst on the pitch. This kept going on for a year. Same with Maguire. People saying he wasn't that bad in the previous seasons. Oh yes he was and the excuses just prove my point. 1st season He needs a better partner Lindeloff is not good enough was being mentioned multiple times, 2nd season the incident in Greece fecked with him mentally. 3rd season wait for it. Burned out due to Euros. I'm really done with these nobodies we have as our players.
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I’ve no interest in your opinions on Rashford or Maguire.

I was just pointing out the complete lack of logic in your claim that people on here change their mind about players too quickly, in the exact same post that you have a whinge about how slow opinions have been to change on Rashford.

As I said, you’re contradicting yourself.
 
DJ_21 said:
Yes that’s true for the title but I mean for like the top 4 spots. You don’t see getafe breaking into the top 4 of la liga Like you’d see Leicester/ West Ham challenging for top 4 in prem.
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Getafe is a much smaller club than billionaire owned West Ham and Leicester. But we have seen the likes of Villarreal another tiny level of club, which beat us in the final regularly competes for top 4.
 
GifLord said:
You had people literally shat on when they pointed out Rashford's flaws during the past 2-3 years. For some people it was enough just to score a tap in goal and he was considered to having had a good game even though performance wise he was one of the worst on the pitch. This kept going on for a year. Same with Maguire. People saying he wasn't that bad in the previous seasons. Oh yes he was and the excuses just prove my point. 1st season He needs a better partner Lindeloff is not good enough was being mentioned multiple times, 2nd season the incident in Greece fecked with him mentally. 3rd season wait for it. Burned out due to Euros. I'm really done with these nobodies we have as our players.
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My word. Seems extreme, even for this place.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Go back 15 years and who were the two teams most likely to win the PL? Not Liverpool or City.

Go back 15 years in Spain and who were the two teams most likely to win the league? The exact same two teams it’s been ever since. Now that is what a two horse race looks like.
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Nobody cares about the reputation of a league in real life.

Most Man Utd fans would go back to the 90s when PL was behind Serie A and La Liga in quality, and behind Ligue 1 in the UEFA coefficient(because Newcastle,Leeds and Blackburn got spanked in Europe) but they were collecting most of the local trophies until Chelsea was bought by Abramovich.
I don't think they fancy the new PL with Abu Dhabi and an russian oligarch cheating their way to the top, even if they made the league more competitive in the process.

No sane fan wants more competition if it means his team won't win anymore, who says otherwise is blatantly lying.
 
DJ_21 said:
Yes that’s true for the title but I mean for like the top 4 spots. You don’t see getafe breaking into the top 4 of la liga Like you’d see Leicester/ West Ham challenging for top 4 in prem.
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Valencia, Deportivo La Coruña, and Atlético have won La Liga.

If we are talking about winning the league since the 90s, PL only has one more different league winner than La Liga.
 
Adama has his flaws, but one word I can describe so far is he's Consistent and that's what we badly needed on the Wings for a while now.

Dembele if he wasn't injured was so inconsistently frustrating in comparison, he was textbook hot and cold. Games where his passing, touches, and dribbling were far off but would pull off some magic out of nowhere as in he scoring a goal and other stuff.

Adama on the other hand, his passing, touches, and dribbling have been far more consistent and his end product has surprisingly been good as we are giving him more outlets on the pitch for him when needed. Still aways to go but I'm happy so far with him.
 
Daysleeper said:
Absolute rubbish. Coutinho has been doing much better with Aston Villa than he had with Barca, meanwhile Hazard has fallen off a cliff since he cam to La Liga. The nonsense about the PL is reaching ridiculous levels. La Liga is weaker than PL, but the PL is petty dross after City and Liverpool like many of the other top leagues.

Mid-table teams in EPL aren't much better than mid table teams in La Liga.
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It's not binary. Thnere are of courxse other factors that come into play, such as how the player is used and the result of increased expectations on the players psyche and ability to perform. Coutinho hasn't done much since he came back, a couple of decent games but that's it (just to address your specific example).

As for Hazard, everyone knew he was a busted flush when he left. Overweight and perpetually injured. And thus it has proven.

Wolf1992 said:
Hazard was one of the best PL players in the century, and has failed miserably in La Liga.
Kante was nowhere near to be considered top midfielder when he was playing in Ligue 1, and managed to be the best midfielder for Chelsea and Leicester in PL.
Tielemans is doing well in PL after flopping at Monaco.

There are many reasons why a players does better in one league, not just the level of the league.

If the problem was to be PL proven, then PL would be dominated by players made in PL, but most of the current best PL players aren't made in PL, they came from Portugal,Spain,France, Germany,etc
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Hazard has been constantly injured and overweight, and declined massively with age. Nothing to do with the leagues. Kante was unheralded but he was signed because of a statistical approach to recruitment which showed he was an uncovered gem. Tielemans, was young and has developed. Weird examples.

marktan said:
Nah, it's much more of a case of playing for a very defensive Wolves team with very few good attackers / finishers. It's natural that in a more attacking team with better finishers he'll be more productive.

It's the same lazy tropes as with Saint Maximin, if you actually watch their play regularly you can see that they're good, they just play in dog shite attacks.

Conversely also why Sancho won't be as good as his Dortmund stats. Context of the team they play/played for.
Click to expand...

Context is of course important. I am not saying it binary, as in one contextual factor. There are many at play.
 
simonhch said:
It's not binary. Thnere are of courxse other factors that come into play, such as how the player is used and the result of increased expectations on the players psyche and ability to perform. Coutinho hasn't done much since he came back, a couple of decent games but that's it (just to address your specific example).

As for Hazard, everyone knew he was a busted flush when he left. Overweight and perpetually injured. And thus it has proven.



Hazard has been constantly injured and overweight, and declined massively with age. Nothing to do with the leagues. Kante was unheralded but he was signed because of a statistical approach to recruitment which showed he was an uncovered gem. Tielemans, was young and has developed. Weird examples.



Context is of course important. I am not saying it binary, as in one contextual factor. There are many at play.
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Hazard was sold for 100M. He clearly was not expected to decline so rapidly. And coutinho has been really good for Aston villa. As a matter of fact, he was fantastic in the PL but struggled mightily in la liga and bundesliga.

man’s man city have inarguably turned the epl into a one horse league. Far more parity elsewhere.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Go back 15 years and who were the two teams most likely to win the PL? Not Liverpool or City.

Go back 15 years in Spain and who were the two teams most likely to win the league? The exact same two teams it’s been ever since. Now that is what a two horse race looks like.
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I’m sorry but what?! Are Barca challenging for the league this year? Atletico and Sevilla have had just as high league positions as Barca in recent years.

want to know who’s as winning the epl 15 years ago and also still wins CL and won the league not that long ago? Chelsea

15 years is a dumb barometer. Valencia and deportivo were also winning the league 20 years ago in la liga.

City have won the league 5 times since 2012, just as many as any Spanish team has won la liga. Epl is a one horse league with city having a majority of the title races rather boring in most of the last 4 years.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Go back 15 years and who were the two teams most likely to win the PL? Not Liverpool or City.

Go back 15 years in Spain and who were the two teams most likely to win the league? The exact same two teams it’s been ever since. Now that is what a two horse race looks like.
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But the change of dominance is these last 15 years in the premier league is due to the arrival of very rich owners such as chelsea and City and now Newcastle.

Liverpool would once have to be important again and United do not continue to dominate among other things because there was a change of ownership that has hurt them a lot.

If the owners of City and Chelsea had bought Real Sociedad and Betis, a change of dominance could also take place.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
He is doing extremely well in an attacking team. 4 assist in 5 games and a starter for Barcelona. He was not even a starter for Wolves in a defensive team. Absolutely steal for 30m. After all Klopp, Guardiola, Conte and Xavi can't be all wrong about judging a player.
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Yes they can. Barcelona let him go and he has been in the premier league for a while so there was ample opportunity.
Yagami said:
It was obvious he was a good player.

People laughed at his stats at Wolves, but, if you watched him, he constantly played beautiful passes and crosses his inferior teammates couldn't take advantage of. He was never a pace merchant like some claimed. He had excellent - albeit inconsistent - technical ability, and was fantastic under pressure at keeping the ball.

If we'd had signed him years ago, which we could've, we'd have been a lot better than what we have been as he doesn't need a system to impact games.
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the overrating is insane. He will be the new Depay
Daysleeper said:
Absolute rubbish. Coutinho has been doing much better with Aston Villa than he had with Barca, meanwhile Hazard has fallen off a cliff since he cam to La Liga. The nonsense about the PL is reaching ridiculous levels. La Liga is weaker than PL, but the PL is petty dross after City and Liverpool like many of the other top leagues.

Mid-table teams in EPL aren't much better than mid table teams in La Liga.
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its been 5 games. Couti can easily pitter out. Hazard turned up fat and keeps getting injured
giorno said:
Barcelona are playing him to his strenghts, and they have the talent to convert what he does into chances and goals

He's not playing better than he did for wolves right now, he's just in a context that better suits him. He's always been a very good player
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Ok.
 
Niemans said:
But the change of dominance is these last 15 years in the premier league is due to the arrival of very rich owners such as chelsea and City and now Newcastle.

Liverpool would once have to be important again and United do not continue to dominate among other things because there was a change of ownership that has hurt them a lot.

If the owners of City and Chelsea had bought Real Sociedad and Betis, a change of dominance could also take place.
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Nope. Not true. Liverpool have been one of the two dominant teams in recent years without oil state funding.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter why the balance of power shifts. The point is that it shifts. Which hasn’t happened in Spain for decades.
 
Yagami said:
It was obvious he was a good player.

People laughed at his stats at Wolves, but, if you watched him, he constantly played beautiful passes and crosses his inferior teammates couldn't take advantage of. He was never a pace merchant like some claimed. He had excellent - albeit inconsistent - technical ability, and was fantastic under pressure at keeping the ball.

If we'd had signed him years ago, which we could've, we'd have been a lot better than what we have been as he doesn't need a system to impact games.
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But just no football intelligence. Which is why he's such an ineffective player despite all his technical skill and physical prowess.
 
GifLord said:
You had people literally shat on when they pointed out Rashford's flaws during the past 2-3 years. For some people it was enough just to score a tap in goal and he was considered to having had a good game even though performance wise he was one of the worst on the pitch. This kept going on for a year. Same with Maguire. People saying he wasn't that bad in the previous seasons. Oh yes he was and the excuses just prove my point. 1st season He needs a better partner Lindeloff is not good enough was being mentioned multiple times, 2nd season the incident in Greece fecked with him mentally. 3rd season wait for it. Burned out due to Euros. I'm really done with these nobodies we have as our players.
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You sure you've understood the meaning of the word "literally"?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nope. Not true. Liverpool have been one of the two dominant teams in recent years without oil state funding.
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A bit off the thread topic but they’ve won one league title and last season finished 3rd. If they don’t win the league this season then they’ve been as dominant in premier league football as Blackburn Rovers in the 90’s.
 
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