Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.

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Understand not throwing him in at the deep end, but with Dalot playing quite regularly now in 1st team and Young clearly staying for another year, it would be easy to start with Dalot, have Laird as back up or Young when you need experience - I don't think you need to spend 50 plus million on another RW when you could be spending that cash on other parts of the team. From what little I've seen of Laird he looks very good and from what I've read he is clearly highly rated, he could be the AWB of next season

Exactly. It could be that Young's going to be heavily phased out and mainly kept because of his 'dressing-room influence' and it'll be AWB/Dalot with Laird as backup and Young as in-case-of-emergency-break-glass.

Anyways definitely agree re Laird.
 
Only concern with him is his quality on the ball. At a big club you need your fullbacks to play their part. Then again, anything to stop Ashley Young from starting
 
People are clinging onto the dribbling stat and hoping he would learn how to attack but you just have to watch him to realize he is clueless going forward. There is a lot more to a fullback's attacking game than just getting better at crosses. If it was that easy, we could just teach Dalot to become better defensively.
 
People are clinging onto the dribbling stat and hoping he would learn how to attack but you just have to watch him to realize he is clueless going forward. There is a lot more to a fullback's attacking game than just getting better at crosses. If it was that easy, we could just teach Dalot to become better defensively.

We can, but in the meantime its a weakness

AWB makes his team hard to play against now, whilst already providing something going forward. He's not the best going forward but he's okay.
 
People are clinging onto the dribbling stat and hoping he would learn how to attack but you just have to watch him to realize he is clueless going forward. There is a lot more to a fullback's attacking game than just getting better at crosses. If it was that easy, we could just teach Dalot to become better defensively.

He is just 21 years old, plenty of time to improve his attacking game. All the good FBs playing now weren't complete players from young age. He is strong defensively and good at carrying the ball. Attacking game and more involvement in goals is something that can be improved and usually with age and experience it improves.
 
If this is happening then I hope we’re going to give Dalot time at RW with Laird as Wan Bissaka’s backup. I don’t think we should give up on Dalot so easily.
 
If this is happening then I hope we’re going to give Dalot time at RW with Laird as Wan Bissaka’s backup. I don’t think we should give up on Dalot so easily.

Yeah, we shouldn't give up on Dalot. In few games he looked more comfortable playing as RW. Also it's good to have options. We can rotate them, Dalot also can play as RB, LB and RW. So he can still get plenty of games.
 
IMO RB's strength needs to be defending first and attacking game can be developed rather than other way around.
 
IMO RB's strength needs to be defending first and attacking game can be developed rather than other way around.

So we’ll have both full backs better at defending than attacking? Even Jose wanted at least one attack minded full back. At Palace it’d be fine, but at United we’re screwed week in week out when teams sit deep as we have no width. If United buy a right back they need an attack minded one or a luxury winger in front of them who will basically be focused on attacking.
Looking at the 2 we’re being linked to, one can’t defend very well and the other is is an excellent defender but has shown zero in an attacking sense.
 
Personally i'd drop Ethan Laird in the deep end and see how he does, before throwing money at Palace.
 
So we’ll have both full backs better at defending than attacking? Even Jose wanted at least one attack minded full back. At Palace it’d be fine, but at United we’re screwed week in week out when teams sit deep as we have no width. If United buy a right back they need an attack minded one or a luxury winger in front of them who will basically be focused on attacking.
Looking at the 2 we’re being linked to, one can’t defend very well and the other is is an excellent defender but has shown zero in an attacking sense.

This. Even Chelsea have Alonso to compliment having Azpi as one of the FBs.
 
So we’ll have both full backs better at defending than attacking? Even Jose wanted at least one attack minded full back. At Palace it’d be fine, but at United we’re screwed week in week out when teams sit deep as we have no width. If United buy a right back they need an attack minded one or a luxury winger in front of them who will basically be focused on attacking.
Looking at the 2 we’re being linked to, one can’t defend very well and the other is is an excellent defender but has shown zero in an attacking sense.

Not sure I suggested we should buy a defensive RB but rather a RB's main strength should be his defending first then attacking game can improved. RB who can't defend but attacks well is just a Winger being played at a defensive position, We at United specialise in that department.

Of course a RB who can defend/ attack equally well is more than welcome.
 
So we’ll have both full backs better at defending than attacking? Even Jose wanted at least one attack minded full back. At Palace it’d be fine, but at United we’re screwed week in week out when teams sit deep as we have no width. If United buy a right back they need an attack minded one or a luxury winger in front of them who will basically be focused on attacking.
Looking at the 2 we’re being linked to, one can’t defend very well and the other is is an excellent defender but has shown zero in an attacking sense.

Another reason I want Menuier, he's better going forward.
 
Isn't buying AWB just blocking Dalot and Laird - Laird looks like one of your best youngsters

Absolutely. I don't think we'll sign Wan-Bissaka for this reason. It just would't make any sense.
 
Meunier to play RB until Dalot & Laird are up to scratch and also cover for LB. Absolutely no reason to spunk 50 million on another right back with 2 cracking ones coming through
 
We'd sign Wan Bissaka for 50 million, stop Laird's progress and still have no decent back up for Shaw. Or just sign Meunier. It should be obvious.
 
We need two full backs on the right so Dalot/Wan Bissaka and we will have two full backs on the left Shaw/Young. Damian will be sold and Valencia is gone.
 
So, how crap is his offensive game? Is it like when we had Smalling at right back? If so, I pass.
 
Absolutely. I don't think we'll sign Wan-Bissaka for this reason. It just would't make any sense.
Dalot and Laird can also play left back, and neither are proven in the EPL. Dalot has looked what he is, very inexperienced, and Laird has hardly played for the under 23's, and also would be highly inexperienced. Laird, I believe, is a terrific prospect, and hopefully will become an integral part of the first team over the next 10 years or so, but at the moment we need to fix our defensive frailties, so to me signing Wan Bissaka would be a good move.
 
So, how crap is his offensive game? Is it like when we had Smalling at right back? If so, I pass.
As I've said before, playing for Palace, and having a manager like Roy, possibly curtails any instinct he may have for attacking play, and as he is a terrific defender, Roy probably doesn't want him to venture forward too much. I would rather have a solid defender at full back, who could be coached to become more offensive, rather than an offensive player being coached to become more defensive.
 
We'd sign Wan Bissaka for 50 million, stop Laird's progress and still have no decent back up for Shaw. Or just sign Meunier. It should be obvious.
Laird, and Dalot, can also play left back.
 
I get the suggestion that he isn't a fit based on tactical profile. But I don't get the idea that he is too expensive and that we need to spend elsewhere. If he is one of the best prospects at right back let's sign him and if we need to move spending on other positions to next summer then do that. We can't solve everything this summer
 
There's a weird trend on here at times that players are unable to develop the weaknesses to their game. Yes, his attacking prowess is nowhere near the level of his defensive game currently but he's still only 21. It's not an attacking fullback that you need right now either. You've been using wingers as fullbacks for a couple of seasons now and guess what has been the main issue with them? Correct. How they are defensively.

Bringing in a new natural RW would be the most sensible way to complement AWBs obvious attacking weakness and it will develop naturally as a result. Footballers aren't linear robots that are set in their pathways, they can develop and nurture in the areas they need to and i have no doubt that AWB can develop the attacking side of his game if he's in a different side.
 
There's a weird trend on here at times that players are unable to develop the weaknesses to their game. Yes, his attacking prowess is nowhere near the level of his defensive game currently but he's still only 21. It's not an attacking fullback that you need right now either. You've been using wingers as fullbacks for a couple of seasons now and guess what has been the main issue with them? Correct. How they are defensively.

Bringing in a new natural RW would be the most sensible way to complement AWBs obvious attacking weakness and it will develop naturally as a result. Footballers aren't linear robots that are set in their pathways, they can develop and nurture in the areas they need to and i have no doubt that AWB can develop the attacking side of his game if he's in a different side.

Its so obvious yet, it is debated endlessly
 
There's a weird trend on here at times that players are unable to develop the weaknesses to their game.

The thing is, we've seen Smalling never develop the ability to pass or brainfart. We've seen Jones never develop the muscular endurance of anything beyond an 11 year old boy. We never saw Rafael iron out the rashness in his game. Luke Shaw hasn't really added a high level attacking facet to his game.

There was a time when I thought we might have England's future CBs as our CBs. Maybe even Brazilian twins attacking from full back.

People can and do add to their games, of course. But I can see why some United fans are wary of a player not developing an important part of their game.
 
IMO RB's strength needs to be defending first and attacking game can be developed rather than other way around.
Unfortunately, it's the other way around. It's a defensive game that can be developed while attacking is more natural.
I've watched him going forward and I doubt he would ever each Dalot's potential at the other end of the pitch. The later looks like a natural with the ball at his feet.
 
Its so obvious yet, it is debated endlessly

It's definitely debatable in terms of other fullbacks, not however debatable in comparison to his defensive strengths.

Unfortunately, it's the other way around. It's a defensive game that can be developed while attacking is more natural.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as that. Completely depends on the player.

The thing is, we've seen Smalling never develop the ability to pass or brainfart. We've seen Jones never develop the muscular endurance of anything beyond an 11 year old boy. We never saw Rafael iron out the rashness in his game. Luke Shaw hasn't really added a high level attacking facet to his game.

There was a time when I thought we might have England's future CBs as our CBs. Maybe even Brazilian twins attacking from full back.

People can and do add to their games, of course. But I can see why some United fans are wary of a player not developing an important part of their game.

Of course players are going to have weaknesses in comparison to other parts of their game, but they can most certainly develop them so they are at least competent in the department which is what i was meaning. I think Smalling and Shaw are both competent in those respective weaknesses for example but it is the black mark that people always like to use against their name. This season for example I watched United games a bit more than I have since SAF left and I think Shaw has done pretty well developing his attacking game when he's had a winger who cuts inside and allows him to overlap. A fullbacks attacking game relies a lot on the winger complementing their game too.
 
There's a weird trend on here at times that players are unable to develop the weaknesses to their game. Yes, his attacking prowess is nowhere near the level of his defensive game currently but he's still only 21. It's not an attacking fullback that you need right now either. You've been using wingers as fullbacks for a couple of seasons now and guess what has been the main issue with them? Correct. How they are defensively.

Bringing in a new natural RW would be the most sensible way to complement AWBs obvious attacking weakness and it will develop naturally as a result. Footballers aren't linear robots that are set in their pathways, they can develop and nurture in the areas they need to and i have no doubt that AWB can develop the attacking side of his game if he's in a different side.
Great point. Having provided some stats that kind of faults AWB's attacking output, I feel the need to provide stats of his defensive skills, as well, and luckily there is a guy on twitter who've saved me the trouble. This thread compares AWB's defensive stats with the best right backs in the top 5 leagues:


On a last note, I agree with your point on development of AWB, or any player for that matter. AWB can get better offensively, and his dribbling for a PL rookie is not all that bad. He has an offensive mind about himself when on the ball, bringing it out and forward (although not always succesfully so). You could also add to the argument that by playing Zaha alone up front for the better part of the season would restrict AWB's and PVA's attacking output. Zaha's style of play, and attacking strenghts are not meeting or heading crosses I believe.

AWB is definetely one of the most intriguing fullback talents around, but spending £50m on him makes me cringe when we've only recently bought Dalot who in my mind deserves a shot at it. When you add that Butt is all gooey about Laird, I think I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.
 
There's a weird trend on here at times that players are unable to develop the weaknesses to their game. Yes, his attacking prowess is nowhere near the level of his defensive game currently but he's still only 21. It's not an attacking fullback that you need right now either. You've been using wingers as fullbacks for a couple of seasons now and guess what has been the main issue with them? Correct. How they are defensively.

Bringing in a new natural RW would be the most sensible way to complement AWBs obvious attacking weakness and it will develop naturally as a result. Footballers aren't linear robots that are set in their pathways, they can develop and nurture in the areas they need to and i have no doubt that AWB can develop the attacking side of his game if he's in a different side.
The thing is it looks like we are going to persist with an inverted 433 or effectively a 2 striker system.
With that formation, a lot of the attacking burden still falls on the fullbacks. I don't know the wisdom in having two fullbacks who are strongest on their defensive side while their attacking game still has question marks.
 
There's a weird trend on here at times that players are unable to develop the weaknesses to their game. Yes, his attacking prowess is nowhere near the level of his defensive game currently but he's still only 21. It's not an attacking fullback that you need right now either. You've been using wingers as fullbacks for a couple of seasons now and guess what has been the main issue with them? Correct. How they are defensively.

Bringing in a new natural RW would be the most sensible way to complement AWBs obvious attacking weakness and it will develop naturally as a result. Footballers aren't linear robots that are set in their pathways, they can develop and nurture in the areas they need to and i have no doubt that AWB can develop the attacking side of his game if he's in a different side.

You have it the other way round. Valencia was good defensively since being moved to rb. Young was decent defensively up until the past six months. Last year he was lauded for keeping the likes of Salah completely quiet. The thing that has always been a big problem was their contribution in an attacking sense especially Valencia. Hell young is nick named smashley young in this forum, you can imagine just why he is called that.
 
Yes and if Barnsley had quoted £5m for Tommy Taylor, Sir Matt Busby probably would've told them to feck off an all. What's your point?
If you don't understand my point, then it's pointless explaining it to you!
 
The thing is it looks like we are going to persist with an inverted 433 or effectively a 2 striker system.
With that formation, a lot of the attacking burden still falls on the fullbacks. I don't know the wisdom in having two fullbacks who are strongest on their defensive side while their attacking game still has question marks.

I suppose though that is the reason for having a good squad and trusting in young players development. A glaring weakness in United this season was their complete defensive meltdowns at times and AWB can most definitely help in that department. If we look at Robertson for example his assists went from 2 -> 5 -> 11. His 2 are from the season at Hull whereas Bissaka has 3 at Palace. Having Dalot as an attacking fullback would also mean that you have two clear choices depending on different game environments which is only a good thing and something that the top managers do such as Pep and SAF.

You have it the other way round. Valencia was good defensively since being moved to rb. Young was decent defensively up until the past six months. Last year he was lauded for keeping the likes of Salah completely quiet. The thing that has always been a big problem was their contribution in an attacking sense especially Valencia. Hell young is nick named smashley young in this forum, you can imagine just why he is called that.

They really were not good defensively. They were terrible at tracking runners, and their defensive brain was almost non-existent. Sure, when they were stood up against players in a 1 on 1 situation their pace/upper body strength helped in that department but everything else was dire.
 
It's definitely debatable in terms of other fullbacks, not however debatable in comparison to his defensive strengths.

Think you miss understood me, I was saying its so obvious that we need to actually invest in a solid RB like AWB and also an experienced attacker down the RW.
 
No idea why people think we won't buy Wan-Bissaka because of Laird. Laird is 17, he plays in the under-18s. He isn't in the group of players like Greenwood, Gomes, Garner or Chong who play for the u23s, train regularly with the first team and who have all made appearances for the first team this season. It's like saying we won't buy a first team player because of Ramazani or Galbraith.
 
They really were not good defensively. They were terrible at tracking runners, and their defensive brain was almost non-existent. Sure, when they were stood up against players in a 1 on 1 situation their pace/upper body strength helped in that department but everything else was dire.

But that was not considered their worst quality. Let's be honest here the most we have always complained about these two is their attacking contribution. We wanted Darmian because supposedly he had better offensive qualities. Let's not rewrite history here.
 
Unfortunately, it's the other way around. It's a defensive game that can be developed while attacking is more natural.
I've watched him going forward and I doubt he would ever each Dalot's potential at the other end of the pitch. The later looks like a natural with the ball at his feet.
I don't agree with your first part because it can be the other way around as well.

Dalot looks good while going forward (for a FB) but defensively he's as bad as young and for FB's if you're not good defensively then you're just a winger who isn't good enough to play up front. Of course players can improve their weaknesses but IMO if you're a defender then your first job should be being better defensively, if not then you've failed to learn the position which you play. Even if you're a attacking FB, balance of strength should at least be equal as you're first and foremost a FB.
 
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