A transitional team

Neil Thomson

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From TeamTalk (and the Sun):
Sir Alex Ferguson has conceded for the first time that his Manchester United squad is not as strong as title rivals Arsenal and Liverpool's.
Ferguson is wary that United are being muscled out of this year's championship because they lack the physical presence of previous years.
The Scot is hoping to have a host of injured players back soon, and will also make a foray into the transfer market when the window reopens in January in a bid to beef up his lightweight squad.
Ferguson said: "It has to be accepted we do not have as strong a pool as Arsenal or Liverpool, particularly on the physical side.
"Both have built big, athletic squads. We may have to look at how we can inject freshness at the club that balances out the power of Liverpool and Arsenal.
"I'm not talking about ability but sheer, physical power and speed.
"Liverpool's main intent is to have a powerful squad, particularly when you look at their midfield, and Arsenal are a big, strong side, too.
"They have come along, and particularly in Gerard Houllier's case, and gone 'bang' and just rebuilt their teams.
"We tend to tweak the team rather than have an overhaul. We have built on the great nucleus of players like Beckham, Butt, Giggs and Keane by adding one or two.
"Whereas Gerard Houllier came in and even this summer brought in four players.
"That is what you are seeing, the building of two teams here with Arsenal and Liverpool."
Ferguson feels he can no longer rely on the crop of players who have served him so well over the past decade to continue delivering the goods on a consistent basis.
"There has to be a transition because you cannot think the same players are going to do it all the time," Ferguson told The Sun.


Sounds like something RUnited would write, is Ferguson an ABU? Or is it acceptable to admit that our squad has been allowed to weaken, and that our team needs changing?
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>From TeamTalk (and the Sun):
Sir Alex Ferguson has conceded for the first time that his Manchester United squad is not as strong as title rivals Arsenal and Liverpool's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Something thats been questioned on here loads of times...
 
It has, its obvious, and while last season was the biggest drop in our squad with Cole, Yorke, Johnsen, Irwin all going, it didn't just start then and nor did Arsenal and Liverpool's strengthening. And he's right about the physical strength and speed, our team used to be fast, particularly on the break, but now its pedestrian - and Veron only made this more so.
 
Originally posted by Nate:
<strong>

Something thats been questioned on here loads of times...</strong><hr></blockquote>


SAF has to take the blame.....his 'tweaks' included selling Stam/Sheringham/Cole/Yorke and bringing in Blanc,Veron, RVN and Forlan......with the exception of RVN ,poor decisions.

Compare the £4.5m spent for Gilberto with the £29m on Veron.....that's why your squad is now weaker.A criminal waste of money,I'd say.
 
Originally posted by Gillespie:
<strong>


SAF has to take the blame.....his 'tweaks' included selling Stam/Sheringham/Cole/Yorke and bringing in Blanc,Veron, RVN and Forlan......with the exception of RVN ,poor decisions.

Compare the £4.5m spent for Gilberto with the £29m on Veron.....that's why your squad is now weaker.A criminal waste of money,I'd say.</strong><hr></blockquote>
We were linked with Silva and we should have bought him, now we're playing Phil Neville in midfield. It was known at the end of last season that Keano had serious injuries, and the WC showed that there were other issues too - Silva would have been a wise, and cheap, buy for us.
 
Problem being that CM is probably your strongest position...with Keane, Scholes, Butt and Veron..and the likes of Beckham and Neville can also play there...therefore it was hardly likely to be a priority was it?
 
Our policy of spending 80m on 3 players has to be questioned. We have let far too many players go.

I think we all recognise the fact we have 7 world class players, and a group of 7 or 8 or decent players. However, we need around 15 other decent players - at least 2 quality players in each position.

Look at our squad. We need another LB, RM, LM, and striker. Plus, we probably need another CB at the end of the season to replace Blanc.
 
Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>Problem being that CM is probably your strongest position...with Keane, Scholes, Butt and Veron..and the likes of Beckham and Neville can also play there...therefore it was hardly likely to be a priority was it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
We used to think that before Veron was signed, we thought defence was the priority, and it didn't stop him - and instead he bought a midfielder who offers no protection of the defence at all. Veron should have been sold during the summer, though I suspect he was offered but there were no takers.
 
Originally posted by michael owen's mum:
<strong>why did you buy ricardo?

seems a strange signing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Because there were major concerns about both Barthez' fitness as well as whether he was staying or going.

£1.5m for an International, hardly any concern for us.. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by michael owen's mum:
<strong>why did you buy ricardo?

seems a strange signing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In case Barthez had another nightmare season. Top teams tend to have 3 good keepers, whereas we only had 2. He was cheap so I have no problem with that signing, Van Der Gouw had to be replaced.
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
We used to think that before Veron was signed, we thought defence was the priority, and it didn't stop him - and instead he bought a midfielder who offers no protection of the defence at all. Veron should have been sold during the summer, though I suspect he was offered but there were no takers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But the addition of Veron obviously means you were less likely to be after another CM./ Yes he was clearly a mistake, but he's still going to play in a lot of games so another CM wouldn't have made any sense. I can't see that anyone would have had the cash or inclination to buy him last summer...
 
Originally posted by MPTutd:
<strong>Our policy of spending 80m on 3 players has to be questioned. We have let far too many players go.

I think we all recognise the fact we have 7 world class players, and a group of 7 or 8 or decent players. However, we need around 15 other decent players - at least 2 quality players in each position.

Look at our squad. We need another LB, RM, LM, and striker. Plus, we probably need another CB at the end of the season to replace Blanc.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Were the players we bought so expensive because it was United who was buying, cos they were so good, or cos the market was ridiculous?
Veron - market
Ruud - bargain!
Rio - United buying, Leeds skint

Veron was a mistake, and thats already been debated to death. Ruud is a fecking legend in the making though, as is Rio, and over time he'll prove to be money well spent, but perhaps strategically he wasn't the best buy, perhaps Ayala would have been better and use the rest of the money to get some others, and wait for Rio's price to come down.
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Were the players we bought so expensive because it was United who was buying, cos they were so good, or cos the market was ridiculous?
Veron - market
Ruud - bargain!
Rio - United buying, Leeds skint

Veron was a mistake, and thats already been debated to death. Ruud is a fecking legend in the making though, as is Rio, and over time he'll prove to be money well spent, but perhaps strategically he wasn't the best buy, perhaps Ayala would have been better and use the rest of the money to get some others, and wait for Rio's price to come down.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why would Ayala have been a better buy than Rio? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
 
van nistelrooy seems to be value for money.

veron was ludicrous money.

and you were mugged over ferdinand. if o'shea and brown are as good as you mancs claim, why the urgency to spend £30M on rio? could've got him for a lot, lot less than that.
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

Why would Ayala have been a better buy than Rio? :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not saying a better player, but better strategically in that he would have been a lot cheaper and have left plenty of cash to strengthen other areas of the side, like a 4th striker, a backup winger.
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
I'm not saying a better player, but better strategically in that he would have been a lot cheaper and have left plenty of cash to strengthen other areas of the side, like a 4th striker, a backup winger.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So, by saving £15-20m, we would have got a player who's arguably not as good, a player who would arguably have needed a longer period to settle, fit in and adjust to the English game, a player who's far slower when we needed pace, a player who's 7 years older, a player who doesn't speak the language.

All of this for a back-up striker and a back-up winger..
 
Veron was the mistake. We should have bought a winger. Rio we could afford - as a player he is no mistake. RVN was no mistake. Forlan will I still believe, prove to be no mistake. So 30m down the drain at the expense of 3-4 squad players. And I still think we'll win something this year. I just hope it's not the worthless.
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

So, by saving £15-20m, we would have got a player who's arguably not as good, - I think they're comparable, Ayala is much more experienced and has been one of Europe's top defenders consistently

a player who would arguably have needed a longer period to settle, fit in and adjust to the English game, - I think his physical style is ideally suited to the premiership

a player who's far slower when we needed pace, - almost all defenders are slower than Rio and Rio imo is nearly, or is, the worlds best defender, but Ayala isn't particularly slow, like Blanc, and is still of a high quality

a player who's 7 years older, - it would be a strategic fairly short term buy, like Blanc and I guess Stam

a player who doesn't speak the language. - few foreign players do.

All of this for a back-up striker and a back-up winger.. - for those it would definitely be worth it.

I'm delighted with Rio, and he's fitted in exceptionally well and is world class - but fecking hell was he expensive!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>So, if you're delighted with Rio, why question the purchase?

You must be a barrel of laugh having a drink with, with your positive attitude an all.. :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>
Errr this thread is in response to Alex admitting that our squad is weaker than our rivals, perhaps the manager should be more positive about his squad? :rolleyes:
 
Rio was over priced....


and he's been good.....but no where near as good as stam at his peak... but its too early to judge.


about the topic- everyone, knows we are not head and shoulders above the competition... i don't understand the need for 1000s of new topics, telling us how bad our players are.

My opinion is, that we need giggs and becks to get back to what they are best at.. i think thats one of the reasons why we've struggled to score, especially at home... giggs is at his best, when he runs at defenders down the left wing, and beck's has a great cross, take that away from his came and his game, and he becomes a normal player.

too many players wanting to play CM.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>
about the topic- everyone, knows we are not head and shoulders above the competition... i don't understand the need for 1000s of new topics, telling us how bad our players are.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Giggzy, why don't you and AEBM start some good feel-good threads then?

Agree about the CM thing, though its SAF changing the tactics and not the players wanting to be CM's or link strikers.
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Giggzy, why don't you and AEBM start some good feel-good threads then?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

nah....

i'll start a topic on how crap keane is.

should fit in with the atmosphere of this forum.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>should fit in with this atmosphere of this forum.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's starting to piss me off!
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Errr this thread is in response to Alex admitting that our squad is weaker than our rivals, perhaps the manager should be more positive about his squad? :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Arest me if I'm wrong, but according to you:

- Blanc is not good enough
- Rio was a mistake, should have bought Ayala instead
- Veron was a mistake
- We're playing players in the wrong positions
- We're playing the wrong formation
- We're chopping and changing too much

You reckon these are Sir Alex' sentiments as well?
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

Arest me if I'm wrong, but according to you:

- Blanc is not good enough
- Rio was a mistake, should have bought Ayala instead
- Veron was a mistake
- We're playing players in the wrong positions
- We're playing the wrong formation
- We're chopping and changing too much

?</strong><hr></blockquote>

= sack fergie ;)
 
you are a bunch of pessimists. SAF is having ago, as he usually does, playing down the clubs chances. That's it.

We are not wallowing in the pit of dispair people, we are riding high in the CL - something that Arsenal and Liverpool haven't managed to pull off, 3rd in the PL - which we are not even half way through.

If you are going to be so negative I'm going to take my 9 posts and go home!

Sat: - 1-0 to us. (You heard it here first!)
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

Arest me if I'm wrong, but according to you:

- Blanc is not good enough
- Rio was a mistake, should have bought Ayala instead
- Veron was a mistake
- We're playing players in the wrong positions
- We're playing the wrong formation
- We're chopping and changing too much

You reckon these are Sir Alex' sentiments as well?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wish that Alex would see this, because if he doesn't we will be more than 8 points off the pace, especially if we lose to Arsenal and Liverpool home and away this season. Sorry, I'll try See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil.

seeno.gif
 
Originally posted by michael owen's mum:
<strong>van nistelrooy seems to be value for money.

veron was ludicrous money.

and you were mugged over ferdinand. if o'shea and brown are as good as you mancs claim, why the urgency to spend £30M on rio? could've got him for a lot, lot less than that.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree.Leeds were desperate to get cash and would have sold him for £20+m.....No others likely to compete at that price,given the financial constraints this summer in all european leagues.SAF got mugged.....£30m was a sign of desperation ,I think, on his part.He could have waited knowing it was a buyers market and got him for £20m.....no doubt about that !
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

Agree, he's clueless - and if we're honest, what's he ever done for our club?</strong><hr></blockquote>

He's been excellent for you..

That doesn't mean that everything he does is going to continue to turn to gold...
 
I think United serious lack pace. In midfield and up front we only have Giggsy who you would consider to be a quick player. But today's football is based around pace so much.

IMHO. we need a pacey striker and a right winger with pace.
 
Originally posted by MPTutd:
<strong>I think United serious lack pace. In midfield and up front we only have Giggsy who you would consider to be a quick player. But today's football is based around pace so much.

IMHO. we need a pacey striker and a right winger with pace.</strong><hr></blockquote>

and do what with Beckham?
 
Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>

He's been excellent for you..

That doesn't mean that everything he does is going to continue to turn to gold...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course not

But I think he's got a better chance than anyone else
 
Originally posted by MPTutd:
<strong>I think United serious lack pace. In midfield and up front we only have Giggsy who you would consider to be a quick player. But today's football is based around pace so much.

IMHO. we need a pacey striker and a right winger with pace.</strong><hr></blockquote>

that seems a fair point.


agreed about the pace thing, we need width, sadly our wingers aren't performing to their standards...for whatever reason.

and yes, i also think we should buy a player with pace and dribbling skills to play behind RVN, Pablo Aimar would be my choice.
 
Originally posted by An Extremely Boring Man:
<strong>

Of course not

But I think he's got a better chance than anyone else</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not so sure..

I reckon a new manager and some fresh ideas could be what you need..then again there's obviously a big risk with any new appointment..