A look at Team PL stats 8 rounds in

justsomebloke

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Thought it might be interesting to have a look at what we've done well and what we've done badly so far, at the October international break. The following uses Fbref team stats (which come from Opta), looking at areas where we are among the top 6 teams in the PL or among the bottom 6 teams in the PL. Anything else, you can assume we're in the middle.

Things we've done well (or often)

POSSESSION AND PASSING
Progressive carries (182, 5th).
Progressive passes (418, 2nd). Only Spurs ahead of us.
Long passes completed (325, 4th). We have the 8th most attempted and the 7th best completion%.
Key Passes (108, 3rd)
Completed passes into the attacking 1/3 (325, 5th)
Completed passes into the box (103). Only Spurs have more.
Fewest Opponent tackles in the mid 3rd (33, 1st)
Fewest Opponent tackles in their attacking 3rd (11, 2nd)
% of United dribblers tackled by opponent (44.6%, 6th)
Successful take-ons (77, 6th)
Touches in the attacking third (1624, 4th)
Touches in the attacking penalty area (235, 5th)
Progressive carrying distance (9441, 6th)
Carries into final 1/3 (129, 4th)
Carries into penalty area (62, 3rd)
Fewest miscontrols (104, 5th)
Crosses (157, 4th)


SHOOTING AND SCORING
Shots taken (129, 5th)
Shot-creating Actions (236, 4th)
Live-pass Shot-creating actions (177, 4th)
Shot creations through take-ons: (19, 1st)
SCA through defensive actions: (6, tied for 3rd)


DEFENCE
Fewest progressive passes against (238, tied for 4th). While we're doing a lousy job preventing opposing teams from carrying the ball forward, we're seemingly doing a very solid job preventing them from passing forward.
Fewest opponent passes into defensive 1/3 (192, tied for 5th)
Fewest opponent passes into penalty area (61, 6th)
Fewest opponents shot leading to another shot (6, 1st)
Dribblers tackled (71, 6th)
Attempted tackles (160, 2nd)
Passes blocked (73, 6th)
Mistakes leading to an opponents shot (1, tied for 1st)
Fewest fouls committed (83, 4th)
Loose balls recovered (444, 3rd) Note however that loose balls recovered by opponents is about the same (436, 5th highest). Meaning basically that there's an unusually large number of loose balls to recover in our games.


Things we've done really badly (or rarely)

POSSESSION AND PASSING
Offside passes (22, 3rd worst)
Opponent tackles in their defensive third (100, 20th)
Interceptions by opponent (95, most in the league)
Tackles + interceptions by opponent (239, 3rd)
Touches in the defensive 3rd (1555, 16th)
Fouls drawn (77, 17th)
Aerial duels won (76, 17th)
Aerial duel win% (45%, 15th)

SHOOTING AND SCORING
% of shots on target (28.7%, 16th)
Goals per shot taken (0.06%, tied for 17th)
Shots blocked (52, most in the league)
Clearances by opponent (197, most in the league)

DEFENCE
Fewest progressive carries against (177, 16th). Teams have a grand time carrying the ball forward against us - not a great sign concerning out ability to control the game. Only weak teams behind us on that list.
Opponent shots on target% (35.5%, 16th). Indicating opponents are getting a higher quality of shooting opportunities against us than against most other teams. And it's not because they shoot rarely - we have the 9th most shots allowed.
Average shot distance (15.2, 20th). In other words, we're allowing shots to come from closer to the goal than any other team.
Offside passes by opponent (10, 17th)
Opponents shot-creation through dead ball passes: (22, tied for 17th)
Oppoents shot-creation through take-ons (18, tied for 18th but none worse)
Opponent take-ons leading to a goal (4, tied for 19th but none worse)
% of dribblers tackled (44.4%, 15th)
Challenges lost (89, 18th (ie, third-most)).
Interceptions (56, 15th)
Tackles + Interceptions (191, 15th)
Opponent carries into our penalty area (40, 15th)
Opponent dispossessed (64, tied for 17th)

GOALTENDING
Post-shot expected goals +/-: (-1.0, 18th). This measures the performance of the goalkeeper relative to the volume and quality of shots faced.
Launched passes completed %: (27.7%, 18th). This measures how frequently long passes from the GK ends up with a teammate.
Goal Kicks Launch %: (27.6%, 18th). This measures how often goal kicks are kicked long (more than 40 yards).
% of opponent attempted crosses stopped by the goalkeeper : (4%, 18th)

Significant, but not obviously positive or negative:

Most opponent touches in their own penalty area (722, 1st).
Most opponent touches in their own defensive 1/3 (2051, 2nd)
 
In plain English:

Offensively, we are terribly predictable and ineffective the few times we have a chance to score.

And while we keep possession well enough, the opponent always poses a serious threat when they win back the ball.

And Onana has been poor.
 
Where do we rank for actual possession? Unsurprising we are high up for progressive passes/long passes with ambitious riskier passes like Bruno, Casemiro, and Eriksen.

Does it have short pass stats as well?
 
Nice post OP. Some interesting stuff there and you've actually analysed some of it instead of copying and pasting the data.
 
Some observations to the OP.

1. We have a big problem effectively challenging or limiting opposing ball carriers. Nearly all of our weak defensive stats are connected to that.
2. Our goaltending has been a problem area. Weak stats in several key areas, and none on the positive side. And that encompasses on-the-ball stats as well as shot-stopping and fieldwork.
3. Our underlying offensive stats are better than I would have expected, but we struggle with finishing and quality of chances created.
 
Scandi Red said:
In plain English:

Offensively, we are terribly predictable and ineffective the few times we have a chance to score.

And while we keep possession well enough, the opponent always poses a serious threat when they win back the ball.

And Onana has been poor.
Click to expand...

How do you figure this says we're predictable? It certainly says that we're ineffective.

We're actually worse than that when it comes to keeping possession (pass completion% and overall volume of touches both mid-table, and opponent interceptions are very high), but I don't see that these stats indicates that the opponent always, or markedly often, pose a serious threat when they win back the ball. If by that you mean we're unusually exposed to counterattacks or opponent goals through our ball losses, there aren't many stats that says something direct about that. The most obvious ones - opponent goal/shot creating actions through defensive actions - are not particularly bad for us. Rather, it looks to me like we have much more trouble disrupting or stopping opposing ball carriers than we do closing down or limiting the opponent's passing.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Where do we rank for actual possession? Unsurprising we are high up for progressive passes/long passes with ambitious riskier passes like Bruno, Casemiro, and Eriksen.

Does it have short pass stats as well?
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Just for clarity, those are completed progressive passes and long passes. So we don't just have a big appetite for them, we're also good at doing them well.
 
Some great stats, there. All in all it seems like basically we still have the same issues as last season (can't score goals) but also now our defense is awful through a combination of Casemiro being crap, Onana being awful, and having a makeshift back four constantly. Not great.
 
Really interesting post.

It definitely feels like we've signed the wrong goalkeeper based on the way we play. It obviously hasn't helped that so many first choice defenders have been injured, but we clearly need a goalkeeper that is better at doing the basics. Somebody like Vicario would have been a good signing.
 
justsomebloke said:
How do you figure this says we're predictable?
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It is primarily something I've noticed when watching us play, but some of your stats also hint at this:

(Positive)
- Shot creations through take-ons: (19, 1st)
This statistic surprised me at first, but then I remembered all those shots from outside the box where one of our players will pass a defender diagonally by cutting in and shooting from almost 20 yards, even when the opponent has 10 men behind ball. The xG from these attempts can't be much higher than 0.1. This typically also leads to the next point:

- Shots blocked (52, most in the league)
Predictable and hopeful shots are easier to block... I don't think that there is much more to say here.

(Negative)
- Offside passes (22, 3rd worst)
- Opponent tackles in their defensive third (100, 20th)

These could also be a sign of predictability. Particularly the latter.

justsomebloke said:
Rather, it looks to me like we have much more trouble disrupting or stopping opposing ball carriers than we do closing down or limiting the opponent's passing.
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That's kind of what I meant. When we lose possession and the opponent runs forward with the ball they consistently carve us open. I'm bricking it on every counter.
 
What that says to me:

We're predictable going forward and our forwards are horrible at shooting.

Our midfield is doing a poor job of protecting the back line.

Both things we already knew but nice to see spelled out in stats. I'm sure the club know this too.
 
Scandi Red said:
It is primarily something I've noticed when watching us play, but some of your stats also hint at this:

(Positive)
- Shot creations through take-ons: (19, 1st)
This statistic surprised me at first, but then I remembered all those shots from outside the box where one of our players will pass a defender diagonally by cutting in and shooting from almost 20 yards, even when the opponent has 10 men behind ball. The xG from these attempts can't be much higher than 0.1. This typically also leads to the next point:

- Shots blocked (52, most in the league)
Predictable and hopeful shots are easier to block... I don't think that there is much more to say here.

(Negative)
- Offside passes (22, 3rd worst)
- Opponent tackles in their defensive third (100, 20th)

These could also be a sign of predictability. Particularly the latter.

That's kind of what I meant. When we lose possession and the opponent runs forward with the ball they consistently carve us open. I'm bricking it on every counter.
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Reasonable points all.

Regarding shot-creation through take-ons: Worth noting here that only one of the seventeen goal-creating actions we have is through take-ons. Backs up your assumption here.
 
Rodgerzzz said:
This is because the first shot is always going in isn't it? :lol:
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I realise you're joking, but that's actually a good question. 29% of opponent shots on target have gone in, which isn't too bad, but also not very good - 9th best in the league. The range is 15% (Spurs) to 38% (Arsenal and Burnley).
 
MegadrivePerson said:
Really interesting post.

It definitely feels like we've signed the wrong goalkeeper based on the way we play. It obviously hasn't helped that so many first choice defenders have been injured, but we clearly need a goalkeeper that is better at doing the basics. Somebody like Vicario would have been a good signing.
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It's also worth bearing in mind that we overperformed defensively last season too, conceding 43 goals from an expected 50.4 xGA. So while the drop off in terms of goals conceded seems stark (3rd best last season to 11th best so far this season) the drop off in expected data is less so (8th best last season to 11th best so far this season)

And we also benefitted from the distribution of the goals we did concede, as reflected in keeping more clean sheets than multiple teams who were better than us defensively.

In other words if nothing changed we were likely to see a regression anyway.
 
I loved this stat:
"Fewest opponents shot leading to another shot (6, 1st)"

I mean, shoot once and you score at Onana, so how would they get another shot? That second shot is also a goal... completely useless stat for United
 
justsomebloke said:
Things we've done really badly (or rarely)

POSSESSION AND PASSING
Opponent tackles in their defensive third (100, 20th)
Interceptions by opponent (95, most in the league)
Tackles + interceptions by opponent (239, 3rd)


DEFENCE
Fewest progressive carries against (177, 16th). Teams have a grand time carrying the ball forward against us - not a great sign concerning out ability to control the game. Only weak teams behind us on that list.
Offside passes by opponent (10, 17th)
Oppoents shot-creation through take-ons (18, tied for 18th but none worse)
Opponent take-ons leading to a goal (4, tied for 19th but none worse)
Challenges lost (89, 18th (ie, third-most)).
Interceptions (56, 15th)
Tackles + Interceptions (191, 15th)
Opponent carries into our penalty area (40, 15th)
Opponent dispossessed (64, tied for 17th)
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These are the killer ones for me. We're trying to play with a high pressing midfield yet we almost never win the ball back high up the pitch and then are one of the worst teams in the league at letting opposition players just run through us.

I don't think its particularly surprising because you can see it happen visually in nearly every game and a lot of the time its the main reason we end up struggling or losing - we're bad at the exact things our tactical set up requires us to be good at.....but we had multiple threads on here pointing out the obviousness of this as early as 1-2 games into the season - the Mount, Fernandes, Casemiro thread, the one about us not being physical enough, etc. - people pointing out things they can obviously see with their own eyes that these stats just re-affirm. I don't think it really needs stats to back it up, it needs the manager to wake up and realise he's getting it terribly wrong.

The other slightly damning thing is even our good stats are nearly all 5th/6th best...that's not actually that good. We finished 3rd last season. You'd want a lot of those stats to be 1st/2nd/3rd, and tbf apart from the odd one or two anomalies there shouldn't really be ANY where its 16th-18th or worse. How many stats would other top 4 sides have that are comparable with relegation teams?

Its impossible to blame it all on players not trying hard enough or not doing their jobs. There's a big element of them not having the confidence and/or not being set up/instructed correctly to carry out the game plan imo
 
Rossa said:
I loved this stat:
"Fewest opponents shot leading to another shot (6, 1st)"

I mean, shoot once and you score at Onana, so how would they get another shot? That second shot is also a goal... completely useless stat for United
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See reply above. We're a middle of the pack team in this regard (ie, sv%), not one of the worst.

So, what that particular stat tells you is that we're good at not allowing secondary chances - either because Onana doesn't give a rebound, or because the defence is very good at marking or clearing the ball if there is one, or both. It's not because we're facing a very low volume of shots either (107, 9th in PL).
 
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justsomebloke said:
See reply above. We're a middle of the pack team in this regard (ie, sv%), not one of the worst.

So, what that particular stat tells you is that we're good at not allowing secondary chances - either because Onana doesn't give a rebound, or because the defence is very good at marking or clearing the ball if there is one, or both. It's not because we're facing a very low volume of shots either (107, 9th in PL).
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Not sure what you are fishing for? I was obviously joking, a little.

We are a mess defensively. On top of that, we have a goalie who not only are making horrendous mistakes, but he also failing to concede goals you expect a top class goalie to save. For instance, the 2-1 goal against Arsenal, two goals against Brighton and a few more, in addition to those terrible mistakes.
 
noodlehair said:
These are the killer ones for me. We're trying to play with a high pressing midfield yet we almost never win the ball back high up the pitch and then are one of the worst teams in the league at letting opposition players just run through us.

I don't think its particularly surprising because you can see it happen visually in nearly every game and a lot of the time its the main reason we end up struggling or losing - we're bad at the exact things our tactical set up requires us to be good at.....but we had multiple threads on here pointing out the obviousness of this as early as 1-2 games into the season - the Mount, Fernandes, Casemiro thread, the one about us not being physical enough, etc. - people pointing out things they can obviously see with their own eyes that these stats just re-affirm. I don't think it really needs stats to back it up, it needs the manager to wake up and realise he's getting it terribly wrong.

The other slightly damning thing is even our good stats are nearly all 5th/6th best...that's not actually that good. We finished 3rd last season. You'd want a lot of those stats to be 1st/2nd/3rd, and tbf apart from the odd one or two anomalies there shouldn't really be ANY where its 16th-18th or worse. How many stats would other top 4 sides have that are comparable with relegation teams?

Its impossible to blame it all on players not trying hard enough or not doing their jobs. There's a big element of them not having the confidence and/or not being set up/instructed correctly to carry out the game plan imo
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Well, in fairness, ETH did say he wanted us to become the best transitional team in the world; he just failed to mention it was for the opposition.
 
Rossa said:
Not sure what you are fishing for? I was obviously joking, a little.

We are a mess defensively. On top of that, we have a goalie who not only are making horrendous mistakes, but he also failing to concede goals you expect a top class goalie to save. For instance, the 2-1 goal against Arsenal, two goals against Brighton and a few more, in addition to those terrible mistakes.
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"Fishing"? I'm trying to discuss what these stats say and what they don't. If you prefer general opinionating about Onana instead, don't let me stop you.
 
noodlehair said:
The other slightly damning thing is even our good stats are nearly all 5th/6th best...that's not actually that good. We finished 3rd last season. You'd want a lot of those stats to be 1st/2nd/3rd, and tbf apart from the odd one or two anomalies there shouldn't really be ANY where its 16th-18th or worse. How many stats would other top 4 sides have that are comparable with relegation teams?
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This is a pertinent point. I had the same thought, though ultimately I thought it made sense to pick out the areas where we were roughly in the top thid or the bottom third. The difference between 5th/6th best or 1st/2nd should certainly be borne in mind. It also matters how much variation there is between 1st and 6th - sometimes it's a lot, sometimes it's almost nothing.

I think though you maybe expect a little more consistency than there is reason to. Even the best teams won't place high across the board, among other things because every style of play involves tradeoffs, and also because stats impact on each other (f.e., if you have the ball almost the whole time, you will necessarily get a lower volume of defensive actions). But also because few teams are good at everything.
 
justsomebloke said:
"Fishing"? I'm trying to discuss what these stats say and what they don't. If you prefer general opinionating about Onana instead, don't let me stop you.
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TBH, I don't know what they mean, and I think it's too early to tell. I'm not opinionating on Onana either - I think he'll come good, but for now he's been anything but. Teams carve us open on the counter, and if not for Varane on a few occasions, we would have conceded a few more - he's done really great in defending against two attackers at once a few times, which also shows us how open we are.
 
justsomebloke said:
This is a pertinent point. I had the same thought, though ultimately I thought it made sense to pick out the areas where we were roughly in the top thid or the bottom third. The difference between 5th/6th best or 1st/2nd should certainly be borne in mind. It also matters how much variation there is between 1st and 6th - sometimes it's a lot, sometimes it's almost nothing.

I think though you maybe expect a little more consistency than there is reason to. Even the best teams won't place high across the board, among other things because every style of play involves tradeoffs, and also because stats impact on each other (f.e., if you have the ball almost the whole time, you will necessarily get a lower volume of defensive actions). But also because few teams are good at everything.
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Sure, but using these stats, could you argue that we have a style that we benefit from? Like transitional play that ETH advocates.
 
justsomebloke said:
This is a pertinent point. I had the same thought, though ultimately I thought it made sense to pick out the areas where we were roughly in the top thid or the bottom third. The difference between 5th/6th best or 1st/2nd should certainly be borne in mind. It also matters how much variation there is between 1st and 6th - sometimes it's a lot, sometimes it's almost nothing.

I think though you maybe expect a little more consistency than there is reason to. Even the best teams won't place high across the board, among other things because every style of play involves tradeoffs, and also because stats impact on each other (f.e., if you have the ball almost the whole time, you will necessarily get a lower volume of defensive actions). But also because few teams are good at everything.
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Yeah fair points, and I am just guessing here, but I suspect if you looked at the current top 4, you'd struggle to find such a wealth of stats where they are one of the worst 3-4 teams in the league. If they did have stats in that region it would be explainable by their style of play and profile of players, as you've said.

What i dont like is that our bad stats are completely at odds with our tactical set up (5 forwards, high pressing, winning the ball in transition, effectively trying to box teams in), but not really at odds with the profile of our players (all our forwards/midfielders barring Hojlund and Casemiro are not physical or aggressive, and Fernandes/Mount are not disciplined positionally), which, to me at least, just reinforces what I'm watching every week which is a team that is tactically set up to fail.

It'd be interesting to compare to last season before ETH's play with 1 midfielder idea, as my guess is it'd look very different indeed.

It coulbein fairness be at least partly where I'm fitting the figures around my perception, but actually the bits I expected to be bad are bad and the bits I expected to be ok are ok...and it's also reinforcing a lot of the opinions on here and of pundits
 
A real mish mash of styles basically which has created a team with a lot of mid table stats, who sit in mid table.
 
Statistic are like mini skirts. They reveal so much but hide important parts.
In UTD case that is that hey do not have a style or game plan.
It all start with coaching.
 
Rossa said:
Sure, but using these stats, could you argue that we have a style that we benefit from? Like transitional play that ETH advocates.
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The stats are going to have a tough time differentiating a lack of game plan or tactical style and a game plan or tactical style executed poorly.
 
Great thread, top work.

Rasmus was of course not available from the start so it might skew the stats when it comes to executing chances, but we are seeing the same problems in attack that we saw last season, with the caveat that we've not had a first choice XI available all season so the new signings, when fit, haven't had the chance to develop relationships and I think this explains a lot of the tactical inefficiency. However, as some have argued here as have I, the younger players seem a lot more willing to work hard and carry out a tactical plan and they definitely should be rewarded with match time, starts at that. We started the season winning a lot of possession in the final third, which is exactly what ETH wants, but the problems then (and still) are the midfield being bypassed easily. Of course a huge part of that is the midfield selection which hasn't really gelled, outside of that match where both Mejbri and Mount played. Another part is the lack of work up front or the lack of discipline up front, Rashford and Bruno culprits there. Losing Antony also pretty huge in that sense.

Then we see the numerous long balls that go nowhere and our horrid level of aerial prowess. If I were to guess, I'd say Varane wins most of his duels, Maguire as well though of course he doesn't play. Shaw who has been absent throughout is also quite solid in the air. But Lindelof is notoriously poor in the air, I guess Dalot is too and AWB of course is flawed in that sense. But the midfield is likely losing most duels. And when Rashford goes for a 50/50 he almost always (and this isn't hyperbole) goes to the floor or grabs his back or some how winces which makes me think that he is extremely fragile physically.

What are the stats like compared to last season?
 
Bastian said:
Great thread, top work.

Rasmus was of course not available from the start so it might skew the stats when it comes to executing chances, but we are seeing the same problems in attack that we saw last season, with the caveat that we've not had a first choice XI available all season so the new signings, when fit, haven't had the chance to develop relationships and I think this explains a lot of the tactical inefficiency. However, as some have argued here as have I, the younger players seem a lot more willing to work hard and carry out a tactical plan and they definitely should be rewarded with match time, starts at that. We started the season winning a lot of possession in the final third, which is exactly what ETH wants, but the problems then (and still) are the midfield being bypassed easily. Of course a huge part of that is the midfield selection which hasn't really gelled, outside of that match where both Mejbri and Mount played. Another part is the lack of work up front or the lack of discipline up front, Rashford and Bruno culprits there. Losing Antony also pretty huge in that sense.

Then we see the numerous long balls that go nowhere and our horrid level of aerial prowess. If I were to guess, I'd say Varane wins most of his duels, Maguire as well though of course he doesn't play. Shaw who has been absent throughout is also quite solid in the air. But Lindelof is notoriously poor in the air, I guess Dalot is too and AWB of course is flawed in that sense. But the midfield is likely losing most duels. And when Rashford goes for a 50/50 he almost always (and this isn't hyperbole) goes to the floor or grabs his back or some how winces which makes me think that he is extremely fragile physically.

What are the stats like compared to last season?
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Actually in terms of basic aerial duel stats at least it's one of his strong points.

Screenshot_20231013_230021_Chrome.jpg
 
ElCholo said:
Statistic are like mini skirts. They reveal so much but hide important parts.
In UTD case that is that hey do not have a style or game plan.
It all start with coaching.
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Statistics are not like mini skirts in any sense other than that they complicate life only for people with only one thing in mind. ;)

Utd have both game plans and a style, which is precisely due to the coaching, but at the time they aren’t succeding with the plans - which is what these very diligently assembled stas bear out.
 
justsomebloke said:
Some observations to the OP.

1. We have a big problem effectively challenging or limiting opposing ball carriers. Nearly all of our weak defensive stats are connected to that.
2. Our goaltending has been a problem area. Weak stats in several key areas, and none on the positive side. And that encompasses on-the-ball stats as well as shot-stopping and fieldwork.
3. Our underlying offensive stats are better than I would have expected, but we struggle with finishing and quality of chances created.
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Brilliant ground work.
My big take-homes:

1. The undramatic takes are mostly true: We do alot of good stuff denying the oposition and bringing the ball up to dangerous areas. Like Pep once said: I’ll take you into the last third, and even the last fourth, from there you must do the rest.

2. We finish alot worse than we play. Overthinking and nervous, most likely. But:

3. We are top three in very few attacking areas, almost none: What we specialize in, we are not really brilliant at yet. This also leads to that most of our shots and eGs are hard won and marginal situation really, ending in blocks and shots wide.

4. Fascinating: We deny passes but allow carries. Is it a man-marking trade off with shutting up space approach that we can’t deliver on because we are new/depleted in players and relations in midfield/defence? We manage to thwart passing options by following players, but open up huge space then for runs.

5. I actually don’t think Onana has done any worse for us than Schmeichel did during his first three months. What yhe stats show to me is that we’ve not gotten to benefit much yet from his obviously high skill set of playing short and long passes. This was to be the trade-off for letting in five goals extra per year on shots compared to De Gea. We can look forward to this normalizing, I believe. Onana has made a few clangers, but this is not important. He has made quite a few good saves to, which is more important in the long run.
 
noodlehair said:
The other slightly damning thing is even our good stats are nearly all 5th/6th best...that's not actually that good. We finished 3rd last season. You'd want a lot of those stats to be 1st/2nd/3rd, and tbf apart from the odd one or two anomalies there shouldn't really be ANY where its 16th-18th or worse. How many stats would other top 4 sides have that are comparable with relegation teams?
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That was the first thing I noticed. If our "positive" stats have us 5th/6th best in the league in those areas, it's no wonder we're miles behind top 4 already.
 
Grande said:
Statistics are not like mini skirts in any sense other than that they complicate life only for people with only one thing in mind. ;)

Utd have both game plans and a style, which is precisely due to the coaching, but at the time they aren’t succeding with the plans - which is what these very diligently assembled stas bear out.
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What is United style? Getting trashed by any side who can can string more than 10 passes?
Its getting mythical and kinda deluded.
You only had some plan and style with crazy old fecker LVG. Wasn't your last win at Anfield came with him at the helm? And he only got humiliated once but even that was with red card.
You should have keep him, and you would solid possession team. Not made to beat city but at least you wouldn't get embarrassed every other week.
ETH is dead man walking, he is just not good for EPL.
 
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Dominos said:
That was the first thing I noticed. If our "positive" stats have us 5th/6th best in the league in those areas, it's no wonder we're miles behind top 4 already.
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As mentioned earlier, that is actually a bit of a simplistic assumption. It's not the case that if you're a top team, you're on top or near the top in most statistical categories.

Some stats taken more or less at random for Manchester City right now;

9th in non-penalty expected goals, 2nd in progressive carries, 4th in progressive passes, 4th in shots, 5th in goals per shot, 1st in passes completed, 5th in progressive distance of passes, 4th in key passes, 15th in crosses into the penalty area, 5th in passes into the penalty area, 11th in shots blocked by opponent, 2nd in shots created through live passes, 5th in shots leading to another shot, 20th in shot creation through defensive actions, 20th in blocks made, 20th in interceptions, 1st in touches, 6th in touches in the oppo penalty area etc etc.

In short - just because you're a top team, that doesn't mean you will normally have a corresponding position for the most part across different statistical areas. I listed 18 stat areas there, City was only top 2 in 4 of them. Typically if you're a top team you'll probably be high-end in most categories except those negatively impacted by your style, but whether you're 2nd or 5th really doesn't make much difference in terms of describing you as a team.
 
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ElCholo said:
What is United style? Getting trashed by any side who can can string more than 10 passes?
Its getting mythical and kinda deluded.
You only had some plan and style with crazy old fecker LVG. Wasn't your last win at Anfield came with him at the helm? And he only got humiliated once but even that was with red card.
You should have keep him, and you would solid possession team. Not made to beat city but at least you wouldn't get embarrassed every other week.
ETH is dead man walking, he is just not good for EPL.
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Winning is not a style, it’s a result.

Ten Hag has won more games than Van Gaal, maybe you are on a wind up?

it’s not difficult to find out about Ten Hag’s playing style and tactics. Just google it. It’s like the bird in the bushes - that you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there.
 
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