A competition with only one all-time representative per nation. Who gets selected?

If you go purely with trophy count, United is ahead.
I agree that 3 CL trophies less stick out (and hurt the most) but we have advantage in domestic leagues and in the most important domestic cup. Also we were World champions twice (insert Pep's meme).

Until someone makes clear and official trophy point ranking i will stick with overall official trophies (officially recognised by Uefa). Which counts 68-67 in our favour.

For all of you who laugh at Charity shield; it is official trophy by UEFA.:cool:

Edit: part of me wanted us in Conference league. To become only club in Europe with all trophies won.
It seems I wasn't alone.

Wouldn't mind another europa though.
 
The closest contest out of all the others but Liverpool has recently taken over us and you can't ignore their european haul unfortunately.
(We win a cl and another uefa cup and I give it back to ourselves)

Liverpool have won 1 league title in over 30 years though. That brings their success down quite a bit.
 
If you get into taking specific trophies that seriously you start getting silly situations like arguing Nottingham Forest over Arsenal. Or claiming United have had a better season than Arsenal.

Our drought and Liverpool's continued success post Ferguson has involved them winning one trophy more than us, or in terms of what matters one league and one cl.

I think both United and Liverpool fans get a little too caught up in the rivalry/envy sometimes. The fans of the one doing worse at any particular time have a habbit of exaggerating/dramatising it and then using it as a stick to beat themselves with.

Milestones are also important. Everyone who was old enough to watch will always remember United winning the treble, coming back from a tragedy to be the first English team to win the European Cup etc. Just like I remember Arsenal's unbeaten season over any of the other league wins they've had.

I don't think one triumph is necessarily equal to another. Chelsea and Liverpool have both won European Cups in seasons where they've finished mid table and haven't even been the best team in their city, and even just looking at those two instances, one famously thought back from 3-0 down in a game that is still regularly brought up now, while the other got outplayed for 120 minutes and won by doing next to nothing.
Where do you draw the line though? Only 5 of Real's European Cup wins came in years when they won the league. Three of these five were in their last 4 triumphs which means there was a point that they won the league on only two occasions in 11! The great Milan side that people eulogize about in the '00s with Nesta, Maldini, Cafu, Seedorf, Kaka, Pilro, ... have not won the league in any of the seasons they reached the final in that period. In fact they have 1 league title to their name throughout that golden CL era they had.
 
People who think that Liverpool is bigger than United based on CL/European Cup wins should consider Independiente the biggest club in Argentina then.

Independiente won the record 7 Copa Libertadores titles. More than Boca Juniors (6), more than River Plate (4). They won it more times than ANY club in fact. Yet no one considers Independiente to be the biggest club in Argentina or South America. They're not even considered "top 3" in Argentina, there's River and Boca and there is the extended top 5 which include Racing and San Lorenzo. But the two biggest clubs are obviously Boca and River and by some distance.

I say it again, CL has become massively overrated by European fans. Yes, it's a prestigious competition to win, but it never determined how big a certain club is within their country. This was always determined by domestic success.
 
People who think that Liverpool is bigger than United based on CL/European Cup wins should consider Independiente the biggest club in Argentina then.

Independiente won the record 7 Copa Libertadores titles. More than Boca Juniors (6), more than River Plate (4). They won it more times than ANY club in fact. Yet no one considers Independiente to be the biggest club in Argentina or South America. They're not even considered "top 3" in Argentina, there's River and Boca and there is the extended top 5 which include Racing and San Lorenzo. But the two biggest clubs are obviously Boca and River and by some distance.

I say it again, CL has become massively overrated by European fans. Yes, it's a prestigious competition to win, but it never determined how big a certain club is within their country. This was always determined by domestic success.
I am honestly not so sure about that. The thing is it's only in England and Italy where that question is relevant as the most successful domestically is far behind the most successful in the European Cup. I think in our case, we are still a bigger club than Liverpool but that's mainly because our success has been more recent and because our brand is massively bigger. This is in itself wouldn't make us bigger than Liverpool but when you consider the overall trophy gap is not that big, I think the aforementioned factors can edge it. It would be interesting to hear from Italian fans who is considered the biggest club over there between Juventus and Milan.
 
Yeah it's complete bs :lol: :lol: :lol:

Except for the part about Berlusconi, though that itself was more akin to Abramovich at Chelsea than anything. The billionaire owners of the other big italian clubs were already bankrolling them, it's the model italian football had been based on since thw 1950s. Berlusca just took it to a whole new level. Admittedly he bought Milan in court, but that was because of the previous owner being a crook - well, getting caught being a crook :lol:

Inter and Milan have always been about the same level of club except for the Berlusconi years until calciopoli. And they are absolutely each other's main sporting rival. The hatred between the two is recent and relates directly to Calciopoli, though it is true they always had a stronger rivalry than Milan vs Juventus. Derby d'Italia is an old thing from back when they were the 2 biggest clubs, in the 60s, but again, there wasn't much between Inter and Milan even then. Pre calciopoli it was because they were the only 2 clubs never relegated. Nowadays it's just a relic from old times

I worked with an Italian guy who is a United and Juve fan, he told me nobody in Italy likes inter, because they are the Chelsea of Italy. Think he was referring to them being disliked like Chelsea, rather than being peak Abramovich steroids Chelsea.

When I used to watch Italian football on Channel 4 Football Italia as a kid it was Inter or Parma I supported. They just seemed to have the most mercurial and interesting players, Milan obviously had superstars but left me cold, they were definitely the city of the day.
 
I worked with an Italian guy who is a United and Juve fan, he told me nobody in Italy likes inter, because they are the Chelsea of Italy. Think he was referring to them being disliked like Chelsea, rather than being peak Abramovich steroids Chelsea.
:lol::lol::lol:
There 2 types of Italians: Juventus fans, and people who hate Juventus

Inter is, meh, disliked yeah, but not especially so. Their fans are disliked because they're a bit like liverpool fans
 
Juventus is both the most popular and the most disliked club in Italy by far. The support that Juventus has in Italy is far greater than any English club has in England, even compared to United. Even Bayern doesn't have that level of support in Germany.

The popularity of Juventus across Italy is due to several reasons. Number one is obviously the historic success of the club. But another important fact is that Juventus always had a strong Italian core of players and provided many players for the most successful Italian national teams in history. 2006 being the prime example in recent history, with the heroics of Buffon, Cannavaro and Del Piero on that tournament. So a lot of people love Juve as the symbol of Italian football and Italy as such, a bit like Ferrari in Formula One. There's also the FIAT connection, with Juventus being the club of FIAT workers. This is especially true for southern Italians who worked at FIAT factories and didn't have a club of their own to support (outside of Napoli the south of Italy doesn't really have a strong club, and many people there don't like Naples). So Juventus has a huge fanbase in southern Italy and Sicily as a result.

But for the people who hate Juventus, Juve is annoying because pretty much anywhere you are in Italy and whatever team you support, the chances are you'd encounter Juve fans all the time and they'd gloat over beating you and celebrate winning titles. Juve is sometimes mockingly referred to as the "second team" in every city in Italy, as Torino fans like to claim that they are more numerous in Torino itself which I don't think it's necessarily true, but the number of fans of these two clubs in Torino is definitely much closer than it should have been based on historic success. Juve is also seen as a bit of a rootless club that doesn't have a strong connection with local community and represents "modern football", capitalism and globalism. For the likes of Napoli fans and fans of other soutnern Italian clubs, Juve is also seen as the representative of everything they hate about the northern Italy. Then there's obviously the cheating controversies, namely the Calciopoli affair and various doping allegations. Juventus built its identity on being this ruthless club that does anything to win, reflected by its unofficial motto "winning isn't important, it's the only thing that matters."

For these reasons, the hate Juve gets in Italy is even greater than the hate United, Real Madrid and Bayern get in their own countries.

As for Inter, they're quite hated over Italy as well. Some of it is down to similar reasons as Inter (a successful wealthy team from the north). But Inter fans are also seen as elitist and smug, they have this attitude that they're morally superior to Juve, especially after the Calciopoli, but for fans who hate them they're basically just seen as another Juve and hypocrites. However it doesn't come close to the hate Juve get.

I think there are several other clubs in Italy that get similar level of hate as Inter across the country. Lazio is definitely a candidate for the second most hated club in Italy because of its reputation for being a "fascist club" due to having a large group of violent neo-fascist ultras (who are also tied with organized crime and are seen as thugs). Lazio fans are also seen as similarly elitist as Inter fans. They actually pride themselves in having less fans in Rome than their city rivals Roma, as they see being a Lazio fan as an exclusive thing. They're also very tribal as a result, as they're used to being outnumbered in their own city, where Roma fans are the massive majority. I remember talking to a Lazio fan and he told me that going to a high school, it was not uncommon that Lazio fans were so few in their own city that you would be nicknamed "the Lazio fan" if you were one, because it was so rare. This was before Lazio had their big success in the 90s when they picked up some more fans, but still lag behind Roma. Also this period of success was seen as "bought" by others, due to Cragnotti investing huge money (for the time) in the team and buying marquee players. Lazio fans are allied with Inter fans too so this doesn't do either of them any favors in the eyes of people who hate either of these two clubs.

Roma is hated in every part of Italy for being the representative of the capital. Romans are hated both in the north and in the south, as the city is associated with corruption and like in many other European countries, nobody really likes the capital city. The hate that the rest of Italy has for Rome actually goes back even further, before Italy even existed as a country, as Rome was the seat of the Papacy and the city was often a violent and corrupt mess due to rival noble families fighting for control of the papacy and of the city. This is in contrast to for example the prosperous and well-organized cities in the north which flourished in middle ages and renaissance like Venice, Milan, Genoa and Florence. So people from north always looked down on Rome as being a corrupt backward city that tries to live on its long gone glory of antiquity, and this tradition can still be seen today and reflects in the hate Roma get as football club. Roma has fierce rivalries with the likes of Napoli and Atalanta, as both of these fans are very passionate and absolutely hate Roma and Rome. So despite not being nearly as successful as the big 3 of the Italian football, Roma is hated all over Italy similarly to Inter.

I have to also mention Verona which is a club that gets disproportionate ammount of hate for the level of where they are at as a club, as they're basically the Millwall of Italy. Their fanbase is seen as racist, fascist and extremely hateful. Their ultras are openly fascist and have had numerous racist and other controversial incidents over the years. The city of Verona is also stereotypically seen as a bastion of far-right and xenophobia. Veronese fans have been especially hateful towards southern Italians, which is related to the rivalry they have with Napoli as both of these clubs had their golden years in the 80s when they were both title contenders for a short period (Verona actually won a title in 1985 in a Leicester-like story and had another title challenge in 1987 when Napoli won it). When they played in Verona, the home fans insulted Napoli fans with banners like "Welcome to Italy", "wash yourself" etc. The Napoli fans responded by insulting the very core of identity of Verona as a city by calling Romeo gay and Juliet a whore. Ever since there has been a bitter hatred between Verona and Napoli which also transferred to other southern Italian clubs hating on Verona. It doesn't help that the Veronese ultras openly accept the negative image people have of them, flying banners like "we hate everyone". Them booing Ibrahimović farewell speech in Milan for no other reason than being spiteful and trolling is stereotypical Verona fan behavior. Like I said, basically the Millwall of Italy.

Napoli is hated all over Italy because of the negative image people have of the city due to organized crime and garbage issues. They're also by far the biggest team of the south and nothern Italians who hate the southerners focus their hate on Napoli. But they're not universally loved in the south either, as they have local rivalries with other southern clubs.

Milan also gets hate all over the country because of similar reasons as Inter and Juve, but is still less hated than Inter and definitely much less hated than Juve.

To sum it up, Juventus are the most hated club in Italy. There's a huge gap between them and the rest in terms of hatred they get. Then there's a second tier of hated clubs which includes Inter, Lazio, Roma, Verona and Napoli. Atalanta and Fiorentina also annoy a lot of people but I don't think they really get nation-wide hate.
 
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I never like including Charity Shields in these tallies. It's so hard to view it as a major trophy that it always feels a bit lame or desperate.

I didn't realise Milan's Europe/domestic success discrepancy was quite so stark versus Juve and even Inter.
Same goes for Super Cups
 
Why is Juventus biggest feat 5 SA in a row when they won 9 in a row just recently incuding winning SA undefeated in 2012?
 
Why is Juventus biggest feat 5 SA in a row when they won 9 in a row just recently incuding winning SA undefeated in 2012?
Think OP had a neural misfire there. I mean, Inter's greatest feat was the DAMN TREBLE ffs :lol:
 
Why is Juventus biggest feat 5 SA in a row when they won 9 in a row just recently incuding winning SA undefeated in 2012?
Think OP had a neural misfire there. I mean, Inter's greatest feat was the DAMN TREBLE ffs :lol:
Oh, haven't even seen that one below :lol:
:mad:
To be fair to myself, I'd lost the will to live by the time I got to Italy, plus I foolishly wrote this up in the middle of the night. Not fact checking it before posting was the biggest whoopsie.
High Points in Porto history is winning the Treble in 2003 and 2011, besides winning the treble in 2011 they won the league that year undefeated.
A Treble is the European Cup/Champions League, the league and the associations Cup of the league in the same campaign. I don't know if a "treble" with the Uefa/Europa Cup trumps a double of CL and league title.