The funny thing is in a day or two we are again going to see some of these players posting a pic of themselves saying "Training hard".
5 years without a trophy - Further away than ever
- Thread starter laughtersassassin
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In other news - I can't believe Huddersfield are the last Yorkshire team left in the FA Cup!
Go Huddersfield!
Go Huddersfield!
On field success is very low on the list of priorities for the club. The Glazers will sanction more social media signings in the summer, probably someone ill suited like Dybala, and the new manager (whoever it is) will be unable to get a tune out of the players.
The funny thing is, Dybala can at least get a tune out of himself (and check out his lady friend).
https://www.besoccer.com/new/dybala...no-precious-song-alongside-his-partner-817441
Our Champions League squad has been updated and submitted.
Phil Jones included with Grant.
Martial and VDB out
So embarrassing
Phil Jones included with Grant.
Martial and VDB out
So embarrassing
I mean keeping martial and vdb in the squad when they are on loan would be more embarrassing tbf
To be fair we may need 4 keepers.
Sending out a statement, premier league winner Phil Jones is like a new signing
I agree.
Although I remember many on here who were lauding the dawn of a new era when we signed Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo in a single window. Truth is, the Glazers run this club like we're a gambling machine. It's all about hope rather than expectation.
If they gave out like a little trophy (the sort of thing you get in an Xmas cracker) for the 4th place, could this thread's title be edited?
Sorry I have been very busy with work, so this has dropped down off the first couple of pages.
A club with the history and resources and fan base that Manchester United have should not be going so long without a trophy and hopefully the owners do look at Red Cafe and will see this.
A club with the history and resources and fan base that Manchester United have should not be going so long without a trophy and hopefully the owners do look at Red Cafe and will see this.
Not forgetting well over a decade since we had a proper midfield either which is shocking
Top 4 has become more important than one of the domestic trophies these days, as sad as it is to say.
Even as poor as we've been, we have lost a couple of cup finals in those 4 years too. FA cup final to Chelsea, and the Europa final on pens.
It's been quite narrow the margins.
We should however, see if we still have that flag mocking City for their lack of trophies, and cross out City and add our own name.
Thrifty like.
Somewhat meaningless statement in the Abu Dhabi era though.
Poor as we have been at times, we have still been 2nd to City twice post-SAF. Since they're basically a cheat-code, you have to factor that in.
In a similar vein, this Liverpool side under Klopp have been excellent but are under-repped with trophies, for the same reason. A side of their quality in any "normal" circumstance would probably have picked up 5/6 trophies under Klopp
Poor as we have been at times, we have still been 2nd to City twice post-SAF. Since they're basically a cheat-code, you have to factor that in.
In a similar vein, this Liverpool side under Klopp have been excellent but are under-repped with trophies, for the same reason. A side of their quality in any "normal" circumstance would probably have picked up 5/6 trophies under Klopp
I don’t share the obsession over trophies. They’re great, but counting off the years makes it sounds like you think we are owed trophies.
I’ll take a team that I enjoy watching and can root for the players because they’re not lazy embarrassments.
It’s been longer since we were fun to watch.
I’ll take a team that I enjoy watching and can root for the players because they’re not lazy embarrassments.
It’s been longer since we were fun to watch.
I mean if we accept City should win the PL every year what's still the excuse for the other cups? It's not like City are the ones beating us in them. We're consistently losing them to vastly poorer teams.
It's not a pick one thing. We can actually win a league cup here and there and have fun doing it.
Now this next part isn't about you so don't take it personal. I remember how Jose fans would mock other managers for playing good football saying they won less and Ole fans would mock previous managers for actually winning things saying they had more fun and trophies were secondary. Both were just a cope to hide the fact they were both falling short. Those two absolutely wrecked standards at the club. Even though I hated that season back when we won the EL I remember feeling proud when oppo fans would lament how we were still winning things in our banter spell then Ole came along.
Yet we have spent more than them. Thats more on the managers we have selected. Pep is a chequebook manager, but so has VG Mourinho and especially Ole. Its th standard of manager and the players we have bought in, nothing to do with Abu Dhabi.
This is a fair point, hiding behind the 'oil-money' clubs label is just an easy excuse, wait till things really get going up at Newcastle if you don't believe me. Top-4 is going to be an even bigger struggle as I bet they will be there or thereabouts by 2025.
Isn't more competition good? It means United will have to be better to make top 4 = glazers having to improve their running of the football side of things
I had a dream that we comfortably dispatched Ajax in the UCL final. A repeat of our Europa exploits in Sweden. The last time I dreamt about United winning a cup final was in 99 when we won the treble. just saying.
Klopp's Liverpool has won a landslide PL. They've been consistently challenging for the PL. When we finished second we were nowhere near challenging for the title. And they also won a Champions League and reached another CL final. Actually I beleive they are the only team with Heinkes' Bayern and Zidane's Real who have managed to reach 2 consecutive CL finals in the last 20 years. Chelsea kept winning titles in this period, they won 2 PL titles and a CL more recently, and they keep getting silverware consistently.
So the lack of trophies is not entierly due to City being so dominant. Under Olé the team lost an FA Cup semifinal to Lampard... Being so poor in the CL gave him a shot at the EL and it was blown by losing to Villareal, after losing a semifinal the previous year to Sevilla...
It's clearly not entirely because of City, for sure. However, I was pointing out that we're making this big deal out of how long we've been without a trophy, and I am pointing out that it's not so easy anymore. In the past, we basically had to be better than one rival, historically Blackburn, Newcastle, Arsenal, Chelsea in that order. Then City joined in, with their insane financial power, and all of a sudden, we're not just competing with one team, we're regularly competing with four or five, in a league in which the general standard across the board is so high.
Are you referring to Liverpool?
What about United, 2008 beat Chelsea; 2009 and 2011 lost to Barcelona, 3 CL's finals out of 4 years?
Yes, I was referring to Pool (18/19). United 2008-2009 would be the equivalent, or even better when you factor in the 2010 and 2011 seasons. Both were really good European runs. With the unlucky loss to Van Gaal's Bayern in 2010 preventing what could have been a great final against Mourinho's Inter.
So out of the ca 16 clubs that reached a CL final in this period, only 4 teams did it in 2 consecutive years, or more.
Fully agree. I've said before it will be Newcastle, City, Chelsea and us, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs etc for the 4th spot. Occasionally one of the 'rich 3' will swap with one of the other clubs, but the norm will be that order I think as the ownership stands at the moment.
Ajax got Bayern and City to the final, we got Juve then Chelsea.
You have to blame the English FA who allowed that to happen, and even lobbied for it.
United and Liverpool should have been the Bayern Munich of England, Abramovich and Abu Dhabi destroyed those chances.
The bit that's a shame is that without Abu Dhabi, I actually feel we'd have a really competitive, exciting league. Imagine some of the title races we would have had over the last few years without City in the equation. Again, it's all fun and games for some fans, but greed will kill the game eventually.
We were the richest club and hoovering up the trophies. Blackburn and Newcastle put money in for a bit, Arsenal. Chelsea upped the stakes, Leicesters owner started pumping money into them, then City blew everyone out of the water money and now trophy wise. Its always been the team with the money pumped in that wins the trophies. Look at the spending spree Fergie went on when he came here.
Disagree - If anything I think it's something that the club want more than anyone else.
There's a stupid myth around this place that the Glazers are tight with their money. (Sure the stadium needs improving and I agree with that) but in terms of giving money to managers during the transfer window, they've been very generous. They wouldn't spunk money into the football recruitment if all they cared about was finishing fourth,.
What on earth is a social media signing by the way? Another made up "boomer" term to complain about the social media landscape when it comes to the best players?
You must be a WUM or a scouser. When you say wanting more than anything else, you mean trophies? If so you are utterly deluded. Glazer business plan was and remains top 4 and some cup runs, anything else a bonus. They dont care if Utd never win another trophy, they are not football fans and not United fans. Obviously most club staff and certainly players want trophies, but its importnat to understand the strategic priorities of the owners.
As for' generous', you realise its not actually their money. They are extremely generous to themselves in paying out dividends, salaries and consultant fees. But all the money the club has in the end comes from the pockets of us fans. They have to invest to meet even their top 4 goals. A lot of that investment has been squandered, but thats a separate point that needs its own thread. They also 'spunk' money on many high profle signings they think will drive their commercial reasons, not due to a cohesive football plan, as their isn't one.
As for the stadium, its beyond 'improving' Its a joke and embarrassment, other clubs like Spurs talk about the need to not allow a leading stadium to deterirate like OT has. It is completely outdated. We get intermittment PR crap about expansion and rennovations, just like before this season, then it all goes quiet. Glazers will do the bare minimum. As long as grond largely full, tehy don't care.
Yours is one of the stupidest posts I have seen on this forum.
Oh leave off, you really think if anyone owned a club they wouldn't want success? If you don't want success you wouldn't pump nearly a BILLION into the playing side. Additionally they're businessmen, you don't buy a business (which unfortunately Football Clubs are nowadays) just to have it ticking over earning cash, you want to be successful.
High Profile Signings = Lots of commercial success. You can't have one without the other. It's literally impossible to have one without the other. This forum never ceases to amaze me. You want big names but don't want the club to have high return on commercial success as it appears that the owners only want the commercial rewards. But you also don't want to sign smaller, relatively unknown players as they aren't proven. This much is shown with the signings of Amad/Pellistri. People already writing them off despite hardly kicking a ball for the first team to ever form a well rounded opinion on them.
Ok, the money could have been spent better, as most of it has been not good enough and just 'good' and not 'high quality signings' but they're only going by what the manager asks for.
As for the 'PR Crap' that this forum loves to spout. You'd also complain if the club just went around and made changes to the club without informing the fans. We all want communication but we also want communication if it suits us it seems. At least they're trying to make amends. At least they are informing us of the changes that are being made, they may be small, but small and often improvements amount to one big change. What's funny about this? If Old Trafford was knocked down and a brand new modern stadium built, it would absolutely destroy what small amount of relationship the Glazers currently have with the fans.
So what is it that you actually want?
Do you want success? Well that means signing big name players.
But you don't want the commercial revenue that comes with it (this complaint only rears it's head if the team aren't playing well ironically enough. If they were playing well, you and other fans wouldn't give two fecks about the commercial revenue, but because the success has been average/less than average, in many fans eyes, I mean it hasn't been great but I wouldn't turn my nose up at 2nd place or 3rd place finish as something being 'average')
Do you want to sign unknowns like Leicester? So that means taking a punt on players. But if they don't turn out, you'd slate the club for signing mid table fodder and we should be signing experienced players. Then you'd get the point one scenario.
Starting to go round in circles here, but it seems like running a football club isn't like it is on Football Manager. Each signing is a huge risk, no matter how talented they are and you'll always get people upset.
But it seems like United fans, especially the 'social media' style social media fans want their cake and to eat it too. Everything has to be perfect and when their perfect signing turns up and doesn't happen as quickly as they'd like, it's time to throw the baby out with the bath water and start again. Rinse and repeat.
Thank the lord these types of fans don't run the club because it would be run to the ground in less than 10 years and into administration.
I'm calling it now and have done for MONTHS.
When ETH hopefully takes over if we aren't 10 points clear by Christmas, this place and Twitter will call for his sacking. Heck, I'd even give it 8 weeks and if we aren't drumming teams 4,5,6-0. They'll be uproar.
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How much are they paying you to spout this nonsense?
You'll get hated here for this, especially by the beloved "man united way" supporters.
Everyone and their dog has a saying these days, especially overreacting to stuff they think it's true/they see it in the media.
Truthfully, there isn't a single person out there other than what, 100 people working for the club, who actually know how the club is organized, ran, what are the objectives and so on. I fully agree with your post, but, sadly, I think I'll be one of the few that do.
To the others that want success on the field before the commercial one, answer the below questions:
- Were the previous managers offered conditions to perform?
- How much money have we spent in the last 10 years compared to other top clubs?
The above two, can they be achieved without commercial success?
I really wonder what would've happened to this club during the last 10 years without its commercial success. Most likely we'd be some average Everton, fighting for mediocrity season after season and generating shit revenue.
It's not the Glazer's fault, I think, naturally, it's nobody's fault. You lot need to remember this club was based on the success of a man(SAF) for 25 years. No organization would survive such a critical figure leaving all of a sudden.
Not just nine years without a league title, but nine years without even a serious challenge for it. We've finished a distant second a couple of times, and we've occasionally had a brief sniff of the top of the league, but at no point in nearly a decade have we been even remotely close to actually winning the thing. It's kind of pathetic. I mean, fecking Leicester won it. Spurs have come closer to being champions than we have; they at least had a season where they legitimately could have done it and were in the race until the end.
Shame Utd. aren't in the final later today.
10-5 is a certainty and I expect it to be 11-6 for next season too.
While I can see us winning a cup soon and ending this drought that is much of Ole's doing, hard to see us winning the league in the next 5 years tbh.
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