5 years without a trophy - Further away than ever

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It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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Don't forget 2 Champions League finals as well, winning 1 of them. And another one with Dortmund.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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If we got the right man and he got us a league and European cup we would be already be thinking statues and that’s after only 10 barren years, Liverpool were 30 years without a league title
 
alexthelion said:
It was almost an inevitability, it's following the same pattern as when Sir Matt retired.

Controversial opinion, but imo, having SAF around the club doesn't help, the managers who've followed him, same as when Sir Matt quit. Seems we don't learn from history.
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This is so true.

Its funny really - well not that funny actually - that Sir Alex was renowned for being somewhat ruthless at times, Beckham, Stam etc. yet the club haven't been ruthless with him. He is still around and on 4 million a year I believe* and if he isn't making decisions just his presence casts a shadow over the place. Sometimes you can't move forward, if you are always looking back.

*Can anyone name another world famous club that does this: keeps an ex-manager on the payroll even after they were massively rewarded when they were in the manager's role?
 
JebelSherif said:
This is so true.

Its funny really - well not that funny actually - that Sir Alex was renowned for being somewhat ruthless at times, Beckham, Stam etc. yet the club haven't been ruthless with him. He is still around and on 4 million a year I believe* and if he isn't making decisions just his presence casts a shadow over the place. Sometimes you can't move forward, if you are always looking back.

*Can anyone name another world famous club that does this: keeps an ex-manager on the payroll even after they were massively rewarded when they were in the manager's role?
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Well first of all I have no idea where you have gotten from that Sir Alex is on 4m a year and second of all this whole idea is completely laughable. To somehow imply that Sir Alex being around the club has had slightest effect on us being shite. Hysterically laughable.

But I guess when you are as shit as we have become fans will sink to the lowest levels trying to find any sort of thing to blame no matter how dumb it sounds.
 
BlueHaze said:
Well first of all I have no idea where you have gotten from that Sir Alex is on 4m a year and second of all this whole idea is completely laughable. To somehow imply that Sir Alex being around the club has had slightest effect on us being shite. Hysterically laughable.

But I guess when you are as shit as we have become fans will sink to the lowest levels trying to find any sort of thing to blame no matter how dumb it sounds.
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For along time I thought it was £1 million p.a. I read on here it was 4x that amount.

As regards the second bit, I respectfully disagree. The Ronaldo thing isn't working, it totally de-railled Oles plans. Who made the phonecall to dissuade Ronaldo from joining City and return to Utd? Sir Alex Ferguson... he is to blame and also for many things he did before he retired too. It isn't dumb to say this, but what is dumb is living on past glories for ever and ever, whilst the empire comes crumbling down.
 
Dear me, you would think from the many comments that this great club's history only started with the appointment of Alex Fergusion. Look at the history of the club, the owners, directors and managers. The clubs history is a series of ups and downs, triumphs and failure, but the club for over a 100 years has continued to function and in the main to be successful although in fits and starts. The era of the success under Fergusion was a one off, for those years everything came together, investment in the youth side, on the whole astute transfers, good recruitment in coaches and investment in training facilities and sports science in which we were ahead of the field. However, other clubs followed our examples and not only caught up in these areas but surpassed them and now we are the club who needs to restructure and get ahead of the field in all areas. Success will return but as our history shows this may take time.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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I'd argue that there was a generous slice of good fortune in those 2nd place finishes and also the fact that we were not just 2nd...we were a distant second. There is a greater fight in Klopp's teams, even if they have only 1 title to show for it.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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He did well at Dortmund and also won the Ch lge at Liverpool his coaching as seen by how is team play exciting attacking football would be accepted here probably100% by the fanbase.
Of course everyone would be happy if we had won the league instead of finishing 2nd. That stands to reason.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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1 League title and 1 Champions League, and another Champions League final and Europa Final. And his second place finish in 19 was within 1 point which is far better than any of our 2nd places you seem to be bragging about. What a bizarre comparison.
 
The two threads have been merged- we don't need individual threads reminding us how long it's been since we've won each trophy. That would be depressing.
 
Pintu said:
Why is this funny? Di Matteo somehow won it with a quite poor Chelsea side that on paper was no much to Barça and Bayern back then.
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We can barely string together 2 wins in a row. We struggle to maintain possession against the likes of Norwich, Burnley, Newcastle, Villa, palace, wolves. The team is misfiring, with lots of talk of unrest within the squad, do you realistically see us challenging in the CL with the likes of Bayern, City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc still in the competition?
 
It looks bleak at the moment I must admit.

theres a few ifs but - if we can get a manager in who gets these lot better organised and coached them to play more to their strengths, and we signed a couple of good midfielders we could be a lot closer to competing to things. we drop so many points against cannon fodder

The squad is nowhere near as bad as many make out and we have some promising youngsters. Shaw, Maguire, Bruno and Rashford have all been in shocking form which cant last forever and Sancho hasnt got going yet.

I hope the obvious names leave this month. If the club is serious they shoild appoint the new manager early and make sure his signings are secured early in the summer. With a good pre season with the required squad who knows.

feels bad atm though - we feel so non competitive its now like watching friendlies every week. We arent playing for anything
 
Pintu said:
Why is this funny? Di Matteo somehow won it with a quite poor Chelsea side that on paper was no match to Barça and Bayern back then.
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Even if we fluke the Champions League, which we won't, it wouldn't really change anything. There is still massive improvements needed here before we're genuine challengers to anything and not relying on some outrageous cup run.

Also the Chelsea side had won the PL 2 of the 4 seasons prior and finished 2nd the other two so they were a lot more proven even if they were having a bad season.
 
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Ixion said:
1 League title and 1 Champions League, and another Champions League final and Europa Final. And his second place finish in 19 was within 1 point which is far better than any of our 2nd places you seem to be bragging about. What a bizarre comparison.
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Literally zero bragging whatsoever.

Just raising the question, if United had won 1 league title since SAF retired would the fans be happy.
 
JebelSherif said:
For along time I thought it was £1 million p.a. I read on here it was 4x that amount.

As regards the second bit, I respectfully disagree. The Ronaldo thing isn't working, it totally de-railled Oles plans. Who made the phonecall to dissuade Ronaldo from joining City and return to Utd? Sir Alex Ferguson... he is to blame and also for many things he did before he retired too. It isn't dumb to say this, but what is dumb is living on past glories for ever and ever, whilst the empire comes crumbling down.
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Maybe you think signing Ronaldo was Ole's demise, I think he was let go because he simply was never good enough and I think most would agree that's a fact. The way we ended last season was really poor and also the EL loss highlighted his flaws as a manager. Nearly 3 years here and not a single title.

Was it Sir Alex's fault Ole sanctioned a world record fee of £80m for a disaster like Maguire, or £50m on a full back with massive limitations to his game? I also respectfully disagree with you and repeat that scapegoating Sir Alex for the clubs miserable years is dumb. Perhaps you should put the blame on the real responsible ones instead.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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no Because we haven’t waited 30 years for a title. If In 21 years we don’t win a PL and a manager comes in and finally does it, you would class them as the best, because no other manager has done it despite close calls and money spent. They have also had some very good sides over the years, their 2009 team could of won a PL title. Gerrard, Torres, alonso, mascherano etc
 
Pintu said:
Why is this funny? Di Matteo somehow won it with a quite poor Chelsea side that on paper was no match to Barça and Bayern back then.
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Do you seriously think that we can win the CL this season?
Are you aware that the standard in the CL is much much higher than that of Wolves, Villa, etc.
Brentford got pumped by Liverpool a few days ago. They'll play us tomorrow and will be looking to take all 3 points.
Our level is not that of a CL winning side, sadly. EPL mid-table is where we are currently at.
 
Don’t worry lads, apparently John McGinn is being lined up for the summer by Fletch and co.

We will be right back in the title hunt!!
 
Jezpeza said:
If the club is serious they shoild appoint the new manager early and make sure his signings are secured early in the summer. With a good pre season with the required squad who knows.
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Logically, you are right.
But I don't see the club doing any of what you wrote.
They'll screw it up as normal and then we'll be panicking just before the season starts, to get the manager and players in place.
We'll then write off next season, because the manager did not have a pre-season to work with the players and this cycle will continue.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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I think you also have to factor in he finished a point behind City who are without exaggeration an entire country's bankrolled football team, then won the title comfortably the season after. Got to the CL final, then won it the season after. Add in the Dortmund work, the lack of spending, comparatively, and it's annoyingly impressive.
 
sunama said:
Do you seriously think that we can win the CL this season?
Are you aware that the standard in the CL is much much higher than that of Wolves, Villa, etc.
Brentford got pumped by Liverpool a few days ago. They'll play us tomorrow and will be looking to take all 3 points.
Our level is not that of a CL winning side, sadly. EPL mid-table is where we are currently at.
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I ma not saying it is likely, but for sure it is not impossible, nor funny.

First you gotta beat Atletico. Completely doable.

Then you gotta luck out, let’s say we get the winner of Villarreal vs Juventus (Chiesa already out) in the quarters. Again, both of them very doable.

And you find yourself in the semifinals. Let’s say you get Paris with Neymar and Mbappé injured. Pogba and Bruno on top of their game. Pochettino ready to bottle it again as he so often does.

Then the final. Just one game. Everything is possible.

This is a depressing thread as it is, no need to laugh at the dreamers.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I think you also have to factor in he finished a point behind City who are without exaggeration an entire country's bankrolled football team, then won the title comfortably the season after. Got to the CL final, then won it the season after. Add in the Dortmund work, the lack of spending, comparatively, and it's annoyingly impressive.
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Yeah it wasn't meant to be a post criticising Klopp. More of a "what is success?" type post.

Anything United do will always be compared to SAF, but I feel that is a comparison that's not realistic...comparing what the current United boss does to Klopp is more realistic imo.

It's a shame Ole couldn't pick up an FA Cup or win that bloody penalty shootout in the Europa League. In the long run I don't think it would of made much difference, but back to back Top 4 finishes, 2nd last season, plus 1 domestic cup and 1 second rate European cup wouldn't have been a bad tally for 2.5 years in charge, and easily comparable to Klopp's first few years at Liverpool.
 
It has gotten to the point where apathy has set in for me. I don't really care anymore.

Until our next game then I am right up for it, again, and normally get let down, again.
 
One that grates more than these is If city win (as you’d probably expect) at least 2 of the 3 trophies left on offer. They’d have won 10 major trophies since we last won one. Obviously an if but with the league all but done it’ll be nine at best.
It’s embarrassing how far we’ve fallen.

Imagine being a United fan aged 11-16, you’d think we were the tin pot nobodies in Manchester. People would call you glory hunter and you’d be completely bemused by it.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Yeah it wasn't meant to be a post criticising Klopp. More of a "what is success?" type post.

Anything United do will always be compared to SAF, but I feel that is a comparison that's not realistic...comparing what the current United boss does to Klopp is more realistic imo.

It's a shame Ole couldn't pick up an FA Cup or win that bloody penalty shootout in the Europa League. In the long run I don't think it would of made much difference, but back to back Top 4 finishes, 2nd last season, plus 1 domestic cup and 1 second rate European cup wouldn't have been a bad tally for 2.5 years in charge, and easily comparable to Klopp's first few years at Liverpool.
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But then you run into the issue of squad quality on arrival and spend which doesn't favour Ole. None of our managers have been successful at all to be honest and al of them have been backed in ever increasing amounts of money.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
But then you run into the issue of squad quality on arrival and spend which doesn't favour Ole. None of our managers have been successful at all to be honest and al of them have been backed in ever increasing amounts of money.
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Yeah all very true.

I would add United boasting they are the biggest club in the world does have its downsides when it comes to assembling a squad...just look at the price United were quoted for Trippier compared to the price Newcastle paid 6 months later.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Yeah all very true.

I would add United boasting they are the biggest club in the world does have its downsides when it comes to assembling a squad...just look at the price United were quoted for Trippier compared to the price Newcastle paid 6 months later.
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The cartoon of Woodward in the sweet shop springs to mind!
 
Bogdannn said:
We need Ferguson to come back.
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As has been mentioned elsewhere: a) his style of management - especially the shouty side of things, probably wouldn't work with these modern players b) if it was able to happen (and it might have if he were 70 not 80 so assuming he had resigned when he first thought of doing) he might find things very different in another way - specifically the standard of the opposition, there are some really good teams right down the Prem table these days and instead of just one main rival: Blackburn/Arsenal/Chelsea and City at various times between 1990-2013, he would face 5 or 6 top sides now c) finally - if he didn't gain a trophy (or top-4) would he be given 4 years to achieve that, like the first time?

(Ans: no - he would not).
 
RuudTom83 said:
Literally zero bragging whatsoever.

Just raising the question, if United had won 1 league title since SAF retired would the fans be happy.
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If it had been any of them they would still be manager even if they won feck all since
 
Bogdannn said:
We need Ferguson to come back.
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Fergie wouldn't compete now. The league is now a league where every team doesn't need to flog players to get by. The end was coming when first Chelsea then City could compete financially with Utd and Arsenal. Fergie left at the right time to preserve his legacy.
 
If I had to bet my life savings on either.

A. Utd winning the title in the next 5 years
B. Utd not winning the title again in the next 15 years

I would choose option B.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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Is this comment for real?
 
RuudTom83 said:
It’s interested to think Klopp has won 1 league title in his time at Liverpool and is regarded as an all time great.

Whereas in the last 9-10 years United have finished 2nd twice if I’m correct. Now those 2nd places were far off winning the title, but if United had won one of them then would everyone be happy(?)
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It's fine margins. We lost one europa league final and got knocked out of another semi final. Win those two and we'd have had 2 more trophies to talk about. The 2nd place finishes would have looked better.

Also the 2nd place seasons, one season we finished 19 points off, the other one 12 points off. City where incredible in 17/18 but last year we flopped against a lot of teams where we shouldn't have.

We took 1 point off Palace and 1 off Arsenal over the season. We also lost to sheffield united who were awful that season and drew to WBA. If you don't win the easy games, you can't expect to lift trophies at the end of the season.

Ultimately, we got what we deserved.
 
yipthatman said:
It has gotten to the point where apathy has set in for me. I don't really care anymore.

Until our next game then I am right up for it, again, and normally get let down, again.
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The lif of a football fan. Will be worth it when Maguire lifts big ears in May
 
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