40s Draft R1 - Balu vs Invictus | Invictus wins 10-8!

Who will win based on all the players at their respective peaks?


  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .
Müller would not be one of, if not the best, striker of all-time if he limits to just goal poaching. He was a nuisance to the opponent's defense even when they had the ball. They just couldn't afford to leave him alone.
Yeah. The term poacher is ridiculously misleading in my opinion. Usually it implies that the player didn't do anything brilliant, just being in the right place in the right time to score or tap a rebound in or something like that. Which is madness in relation to Gerd Müller. He didn't rely on perfect service, he could turn awful crosses and passes, that were difficult to control, into goals on a regular basis. And he had wonderful technique.

Just looking through the goals he scored in important finals (Euro 72, Bayern's first European Cup win and the World Cup final) gives you an impression of it and shows his fantastic touch in tight spaces as well as his wonderful technique.

The first goal against USSR in the Euro final in 1972 was a terrific piece of skill, the way he controls the ball, and scores with a defender basically standing on his feet.

The first starts directly, the 2nd at 2:00

The second one is also nice, shows how quickly he reacts to the mistake by one of the Russian midfielders.

Both his finishes in the European Cup final replay in '74 are incredible. His first one is a ridiculous shot from that angle, and the second one arguably the most beautiful lob ever in a EC/CL final.
The lob:


The first one:


His crowning goal was of course the 2-1 in the final in '74 and the brilliance of it seems to be underrated quite a bit, because it looks a bit awkward, but it combined almost everything that made Müller as freakishly brilliant as he was.

His first touch looks a bit as if he fecked up, but if you followed his career, you realise that he placed the ball exactly where he wanted it to be. His low center of gravity allowed him to turn quicker than the defenders around him, fully aware of that he got the ball behind him in a position, that gives him a better angle to finish and even without much power behind the finish, the goalkeeper has zero chance to get to the ball. Every other striker would have controled the ball forward and tried to finish from a shit angle with 2 defenders able to interfere.

The 2-1 starts at 3:20


Spielverlagerung.de, a German tactic blog, did a wonderful analysis of Müller and of this specific goal. It's in German, but in case someone wants to have a look:
http://spielverlagerung.de/2013/12/23/turchen-23-gerd-muller/
They bring up many great points about him. They describe his fantastic link-up play and his importance in the build up extensively, they also describe his workrate upfront, his pressing against defenders.

Oh and he actually scored twice in the World Cup final in '74. It would have been the 3-1.

At the end of the short clip it's Arie Haan saying the Dutch should stop talking about how unlucky they were for missing chances and all that after seeing that Germany was robbed of a 3rd. He's also saying that it's strange that no one reacted during the game, the Germans didn't complain, the fans didn't wistle, even though Müller was so obviously onside. I guess Müller's acceleration over the first few meters left everyone stunned ;).

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that @Invictus comment in his write-up really doesn't do Müller justice.
Müller was ace, sure - absolutely not going to deny it in fairness. He's the greatest, most ruthless poacher in football history as far as I'm concerned. And I appreciate that despite him being an opposition player. But he can be isolated and controlled by the excellent duo of Weber and Perfumo.
That's basically praising him while saying he can be taken out of the game. It's not the praise he deserves and it's simply not true.
 
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I can't find great footage of Benetti's passing. Here's a short clip about him for Italy though. For example, there's a beautiful run starting at 1:00, with a nice 1-2 and a great cross:



I know it's not much. At Juve, he was brought in to replace Capello after all (who went the other way to Milan). They already had Tardelli and Furino in the side, so there was no need to add someone with only physical attributes. It worked like a charme, Juve improved further, won the league and the UEFA cup in Benetti's first season. Obviously he wasn't the only signing, Trappatoni became manager, Scirea became more mature. But it does back up my impression of him, he was quite underrated on the ball (which seems to be a common trend with quality box to box players these days).
 
I feel like @Invictus has purposely sold short a few of @Balu players here. Calling Muller a poacher would be like calling Cristiano Ronaldo a poacher. He isn't and Muller isn't; they are two of the greatest goalscorers in the history of the game and should be treated as such. He certainly won't be isolated by Perfumo and co. with the team he has behind him.

Berti Vogts is easily the best right back in the draft and the best defensive fullback in this draft to boot (Facchetti might be ahead of him but I'm not too sure myself). A guy doesn't keep Johan Cruyff quiet and then just perform a hatchet job on Bonev.

Benetti, like Balu said, won't be struggling to pass the ball out to the attackers as Invictus's tactics aren't specifically pressing him on the ball. In fact, Invictus seems to be acting like Benetti will be under a high pressing intense possession game when he himself states that his team is playing a balanced tactic. Facing that type of tactic, I have no doubt that Balu's mid fielders will be able to play the ball out to his attackers.

The only thing I see here is how good Invictus attack looks. With both Mazzola and Eusebio switching with each other and no person for Balu's defenders to mark, I just think Invictus might have too much in attack for Balu's defence.
 
I feel like @Invictus has purposely sold short a few of @Balu players here.
A bit, but it's fair enough. He certainly didn't overdo it, not at all. And it's my job to sell my players properly. He did a way better job than I did, he deserves to go through. Congrats @Invictus . Good game, good luck in the next rounds. You're definitely an excellent new draft manager, I hope you play a few more.

Anyway, I just want to add again, that Müller in my opinion really is heavily underrated. Not just because of this game, I often had the same impression in previous drafts, where he's seen as a pure goalscorer who can easily be isolated. That's not in the slightest bit true. I hope someone continues to bang on about his overall quality. The poacher tag is so unfair to him and there's a lot more footage available that shows his link-up play. Maybe one day some of the gif-freaks on here pick him and do him more justice than me lazy ass did this time (I tried to go through old footage and create gifs, but gave up after 20 minutes).

Calling Muller a poacher would be like calling Cristiano Ronaldo a poacher.
It's funny that you say that. Whenever someone compares Ronaldo with Müller in the sense that he became just a goal poacher at Real, the die hard Ronaldo fans on the Caf see it as an insult :lol:. It's mental.
 
Sorry, wasn't around for the wrap up. Good game @Balu. :)

Seemed a lost cause at 4-1...
 
Both managers deserved to go through and the draft would've lost someone brilliant either way :( A bitch of a draw for the first round