2024 U.S. Elections

[Ekkie Thump]

Now, who does that remind you of?

Caption: "Brace yourself"

 

[SirAF]

Caption: "Brace yourself"

Despite the issue at hand being so serious I almost can't help myself chuckle each time I see Trump. He's so odd in every way Which is probably one of the reasons a lot people doesn't seem to fear him as much as they should...

 

[Ekkie Thump]

The McDonalds Mussolini.

 

[Kinsella]

“You gotta give em that Hawk Tuah and spit on that thang ya get me?!”

 

[Simbo]

He is still no where close to where he needs to be.

Biden largely won the election last time because of the groundwork he put in place 6 years ago, and the fact that Trump was trying to implement a dictatorship. He did a lot of TV appearances leading up to the 2020 election, and portrayed himself as an experienced statesman who was both in control of himself, had a sharp mind and was compassionate. When COVID hit, that aged him. We saw that in the presidential debates in 2020, but because of the pandemic we did not really see him much, so the image he had created over the past 2-3 years was what stuck in the minds of people. With Trump being a dictator in making, it motivated a lot of people to vote for Biden just to avoid getting Trump as president again. A lot of people willfully ignored his visible aging, and it was less of an issue that time. Which frankly is good, because policy wise he has been a very good president. Now however, the calculus is changing. Over the past 4 years his visible aging has been very apparent, he has more word salads than ever before and with the whole Gaza debacle he no longer appears as a president ruling with compassion. Some decisions on foreign policy especially even feel like deliberate political calculations with one eye on the presidential election. Which is the opposite of what people voted for.

At the same time his generation is holding on to power too long. The ideas of liberal democracy are being shaken by events in Europe, automation and corruption in established institutions, and a madman who is running for president - again. NATO, the UN, the Supreme Court, Federal vs State, the concept of checks and balances. Everything is being challenged. We can also include the myriad of social changes here - such as the things the right has labled "wokeness", how automation is about to replace 50% of workers, the shifts in demographics in large cities and the GOP catering to a tiny minority while basically surviving as a party by the skin of their teeth. Not to mention an astonishing fervor from the religious right in trying to push for a christo-fascist state through institutions most people thought were pretty much set up to prevent that from happening.

Democrats need to understand that fear is what is currently driving the electorate. In moments of fear political theory is very clear - people go one of two ways, either to the authoritarian or to the guy who exudes stability and clear values (such as compassion). No one can beat Trump to voters who want an authoritarian. Biden won because he was a steady pair of hands who would lead with compassion. He no longer is. It does not matter how many times he makes a good appearance on TV, or gets in a decent jab at Trump, that is not what will make people vote for him.

His campaign needs to wake up and realise that they are fighting a losing battle. He needs to be the stability people crave, the compassionate leader who stands for clear values. Comforting a man who pays $6000 USD for medicines, looking him in the eye and saying "I have got you, you will pay no more than $2000 once this bill is passed" - he needs more of that. Right now he appears as a grandpa coming out of an old folks home, unsure of his own values, pretending to be tough and yelling at random things. That will not work. If he can not be that, then get someone else in to be the president people need.

Very fair points. He should have been a one term president and that should have been an obvious decision. The right man for the job in 2020 but he is coming across now as someone who would ordinary be considered unelectable. I say 'ordinarily' because his opponent should be considered the unelectable presidential candidate in history, but here we are. Dems have to play by different rules however.

 

[FortunaUtd]

This is so fecking depressing.
Everyone could see it coming, everyone knew how dangerous it would be to let Biden go on to claim a second term. How can the Democrats, starred with elite-educated, ostensibly supersmart people, continue to be so incredibly, mind-bogglingly, terrifyingly stupid. There are amazing people in the US, in the Democratic base, even some quite amazing people in ranks of power as high as governors. How does everything this party attempts end up so fecked and counterproductive?

And no, schadenfreude is not an appropriate emotion here, even if you could argue this Democratic leadership deserves everything they're getting, since they've always been more part of the problem as a whole. Panic and outright dread is the appropriate emotion. This affects everyone. We are talking about a global superpower abandoning any remnants of a democratic, emancipatory project here, among other global superpowers who are not on any kind of democratic project anyway.
We are looking at a global onslaught of kleptocratic fascism garnered with C-movie levels of cultural and societal cruelty, debauchery, debility and unscrupulousness. A global zombie army of white (not only white) old men who thrive off cannibalising and burning the fecking planet and who are accumulating even more power to accelerate their projects of mayhem.

We are looking at the end of reality. We are so fecked.

 

[Insanity]

Invest an hour & read about Project 2025.

I watched that British Oaf's video on it in his trademark animated style and I didn't shudder on hearing about it. Will do a deep read when I have some more time.

The checks and balances only work if sensible people control them.

The Christo-Fascists are taking over them, too.

I don't think it'll be that easy. He surely will try; however the system has many checks and balances than prevents US democracy to go down the drain just on the whims or fancies of a New York crook.

At the end of the day the presidency is a criminal enterprise for him to enrich himself and his cronies. They may threaten it but they wouldn't do anything that'll make it too chaotic and prevent them from executing their primary purpose.

The system of checks and balances is under severe threat if Trump is re-elected. That's the point.

Whether the US becomes a truly "fascist" nation under Trump is debatable -- the word means different things to different people -- and although I happen to be one who discounts the possibility that the US will ever see the worst aspects of Nazi Germany -- the death camps -- it's not hard to imagine much of that which preceded in Nazi Germany before its invasion of Poland coming to pass in the US. These are people, and I am an American, many of whom know Trump lies to them but they support him because (switching to the first person singular) "He tells me the lies I want to hear".

Exactly what American fascism would look like is hard to say, but if Trump is re-elected we can count on the US military being deployed against the American people in the name of "law and order" and we can count on millions of migrants being deported. Corporations will be allowed to pollute as they wish, and wealth will concentrated in a smaller and smaller group of hands.

The Korematsu decision (upholding the constitutionality of the Japanese internment camps) is still "good" law and there is no question that Trump and his supporters will exploit that.

It was under threat 4 years ago too. Still it held out and it will hold out again.

A replica of Nazi Germany is a total exaggeration and pure fear mongering. The danger is of an authoritarian regime where the rule of law doesn't matter and Fuhrer Trump can go and muzzle his critics or detractors as they do in third world countries. That still won't be possible as the US institutions are much stronger than that. The circuit courts or lower courts won't allow that to happen. Even the SC will balk at the US turning into a full on authoritarian regime. Also, we still have the Congress and it is not certain whether Trump/Republicans will be able to control all the three branches of the government. If they try something funny, they'll be thrown out 2 years later when the House is up for reelection.

In large part, maybe, but to take one example from his presidency, there were thousands of migrant children taken from their parents and held in cages. There are still 1,400 kids who have not been reunited with their parents. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/07/immigration-family-separation/
So for most of us that was just an ugly episode, but for literally thousands of people it was among the worst nightmares imaginable. I fear it will be the same but 1,000 instances. Marginalized communities will take a beating, immigrants and refugees will take a beating, thousands of women will die because they were not able to get abortions, thousands more will be born as the children of rape/incest, environmental protections will be gutted which will rush us towards a global warming apocalypse, Putin will be emboldened because Trump will be too busy resting Putin's balls on his chin to do anything, and so on.

We probably won't get to the death camps phase, but Project 2025 does call for something not entirely dissimilar.

I don't disagree that some disgusting things like separating parents from children or other draconian measures on the borders can happen. Also, some of the others things that you mention. That is why we need to stop this fecking moron from winning. However, the full on implementation of this Project 2025 or the US becoming a fascist state is far fetched.

 

[SirAF]

I watched that British Oaf's video on it in his trademark animated style and I didn't shudder on hearing about it. Will do a deep read when I have some more time.

Really? What little I read scared the bejesus outta me.

 

[Insanity]

Really? What little I read scared the bejesus outta me.

Sorry, what I wanted to say was, that some dossier prepared by a Trump luggage carrier didn't really put the fear of God in me. Preparing a batshit document is much easier than implementing it.

 

[SirAF]

Sorry, what I wanted to say was, that some dossier prepared by a Trump luggage carrier didn't really put the fear of God in me. Preparing a batshit document is much easier than implementing it.

Ah, then I understand. The ideas, though, are pretty frightning.

 

[nimic]

Sorry, what I wanted to say was, that some dossier prepared by a Trump luggage carrier didn't really put the fear of God in me. Preparing a batshit document is much easier than implementing it.

Some of it is batshit (hopefully), but the parts about purging the civil service are completely doable. And if you do that you're already well on your way to being able to do what you want.

 

[Insanity]

Some of it is batshit (hopefully), but the parts about purging the civil service are completely doable. And if you do that you're already well on your way to being able to do what you want.

I don't think getting over the bureaucracy is going to be that easy. I am sure they are going to make an attempt at it, what I doubt is the success they can achieve in the implementation of their crazy ideas.

 

[Carolina Red]

some dossier prepared by a Trump luggage carrier

1. That’s a really wild way to describe the Heritage Foundation.

2. Some dossier prepared by a Reagan luggage carrier gave us the Iraq War.

I don't think it'll be that easy. He surely will try; however the system has many checks and balances than prevents US democracy to go down the drain just on the whims or fancies of a New York crook.

At the end of the day the presidency is a criminal enterprise for him to enrich himself and his cronies. They may threaten it but they wouldn't do anything that'll make it too chaotic and prevent them from executing their primary purpose.

3. You’re misreading the situation here. Trump isn’t Project 2025. The creators of Project 2025 proposes to use Trump as a means to their ends & while folks are focused on the absurdity that Trump brings to the Presidency, they’ll be working in the background to set themselves up to maintain power in this country long after he’s gone.

 

[maniak]

3. You’re misreading the situation here. Trump isn’t Project 2025. The creators of Project 2025 proposes to use Trump as a means to their ends & while folks are focused on the absurdity that Trump brings to the Presidency, they’ll be working in the background to set themselves up to maintain power in this country long after he’s gone.

What kind of things can they do than can't be undone by the following administration?

 

[calodo2003]

Sorry, what I wanted to say was, that some dossier prepared by a Trump luggage carrier didn't really put the fear of God in me. Preparing a batshit document is much easier than implementing it.

It's actually the opposite. The Heritage Foundation is no luggage carrier for Trump, it's actually the opposite. Changing full stop the backbone of the Executive branch should frighten anyone to the core. That's the goal of the HF.

This will be implemented if Trump is reelected. The skids are already greased, Trump being the main facilitator of that effort. We're talking about the coup of installing 50000 MAGA loyalists in the EB through appointment.

This is the most frightening potential policy change we have ever seen. Is it batshit? Absolutely. Will it no doubt happen soon after Trump's possible reelection? Absolutely. Could the courts stop it? A very weak potentially.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Carolina Red]

What kind of things can they do than can't be undone by the following administration?

If Project 2025 got implemented, then the next administration would be one that was hand picked by them.

 

[Carolina Red]

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He’s sundowning

 

[SirAF]

If Project 2025 got implemented, then the next administration would be one that was hand picked by them.

Exactly right. How I wish people would start using their brain and understand that "Sleepy Joe" for another four years in no big deal AT ALL compared to this prospect.

 

[Charlie Foley]

if Trump was president the invasion wouldn't have happened in the first place

What is this based on

 

[calodo2003]

if Trump was president the invasion wouldn't have happened in the first place

Sorry, but I have to

 

[maniak]

If Project 2025 got implemented, then the next administration would be one that was hand picked by them.

How so? If people elected democrats why wouldn't they be able to undo it?

 

[calodo2003]

Here's a brief recent article regarding P2025, doesn't get too wonky but hits the low points...

https://www.democracydocket.com/analysis/what-is-project-2025-and-why-is-it-alarming/

 

[Krakenzero]

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This played out exactly as I predicted - I even got some flak from our resident 'political experts' here for saying Biden will get obliterated in the debates and that Trump is likely to dominate Biden in a televised debate


@Krakenzero @calodo2003 @VorZakone @Morty_ you know who you are

I didn't even know I was leaving rent free here, and don't even remember what I said regarding this topic (I've interacted more with you regarding your awful takes in Russia invasion iirc). However, due to past behaviour being a good predictor of future behaviour as others have pointed out, I can say confidently that this poster is and will keep being wrong about things.

 

[utdalltheway]

If the Dems are getting ready for 2028 then they are not playing by the same rules as the GOP. The maga types will try to gain power with Trump and then game the system to hold onto it.
They know they can’t win the popular vote so they’ll change the system through a variety of methods to make sure they win.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Caption: "Brace yourself"

The fecking donkey arse on that man!

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Morty_]

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Its too early to tell anything about it, but hopefully the debate matters very little.

Anyway, Data for progress is a bit more interesting, as they also did a number of other candidates against Trump, none of them polled as well as Biden, but as someone who has said earlier, its not exactly fair, as they haven't had the opportunity to build up name recognition.

But then comes the question, is there actually time for another candidate to build up name recognition in the span of 3 months?

 

[berbatrick]

Anyway, Data for progress is a bit more interesting, as they also did a number of other candidates against Trump, none of them polled as well as Biden, but as someone who has said earlier, its not exactly fair, as they haven't had the opportunity to build up name recognition.

But then comes the question, is there actually time for another candidate to build up name recognition in the span of 3 months?

I saw those polls- Trump has 48% vs Biden, and 45-48% vs all the others. It's the undecideds that go up, not Trump. There's room there IMO.

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Obama, Clyburn, Bill Clinton have all kissed the ring, so he will be fine.

 

[Carolina Red]

How so? If people elected democrats why wouldn't they be able to undo it?

What he writes below is how I see it playing out

If the Dems are getting ready for 2028 then they are not playing by the same rules as the GOP. The maga types will try to gain power with Trump and then game the system to hold onto it.
They know they can’t win the popular vote so they’ll change the system through a variety of methods to make sure they win.

 

[nimic]

If Trump wins, next time we can expect extreme levels of voter suppression.

 

[gfactor86]

Do you think Michelle Obama would accept the nomination if Biden agrees to stand down?

feels like she is the only candidate that could potentially beat Trump

 

[gfactor86]

He was a like a completely different person today at a Dem rally, fired up as fook. Just one stutter and tickly throat. "Donald Trump isn't just a convicted felon, Donald Trump is a one man crime wave". Good shit.

that's not the same person

 

[gfactor86]

All this talk about Newsom or Whitmer becoming the pick is just crazy. Harris will be the nominee if Biden steps down. People forget the bedrock of the party is elderly black women and they would never forgive the party for screwing over Harris in place of a white candidate.

her polling is worse than Biden and she has zero chance of beating Trump.

Michelle Obama is the only candidate I think that could beat him. Would have no problems getting donor monies in either.

 

[calodo2003]

Do you think Michelle Obama would accept the nomination if Biden agrees to stand down?

feels like she is the only candidate that could potentially beat Trump

Absolutely not.

 

[Morty_]

her polling is worse than Biden and she has zero chance of beating Trump.

Michelle Obama is the only candidate I think that could beat him. Would have no problems getting donor monies in either.

No, she isn't the only one who can beat him, and no, she isn't interested anyway.

Sigh.....

 

[WI_Red]

The rights obsession with Michelle is hilarious, so I think we know where @gfactor86 is getting his "news". To repeat myself for the month:

SHE DOES NOT LIKE POLITICS AND HAS SAID SHE WILL NEVER RUN FOR OFFICE. STOP POSTING ABOUT HER YOU feckING DINGBATS.

 

[gfactor86]

The rights obsession with Michelle is hilarious, so I think we know where @gfactor86 is getting his "news". To repeat myself for the month:

SHE DOES NOT LIKE POLITICS AND HAS SAID SHE WILL NEVER RUN FOR OFFICE. STOP POSTING ABOUT HER YOU feckING DINGBATS.

Was there any need for that?

Only 48 hours ago I was trolled and derided on here before the debate for suggesting that Biden would likely freeze/speak incoherently, because I "subscribe" to right wing conspiracy theories.

They went quiet after when it turned out that it was the MSM and DNC that has who had been lying the whole time.

The Emporer was wearing no clothes and it was exposed to the World.

 

[nimic]

Was there any need for that?

Only 48 hours ago I was trolled and derided on here before the debate for suggesting that Biden would likely freeze/speak incoherently, because I "subscribe" to right wing conspiracy theories.

They went quiet after when it turned out that it was the MSM and DNC that has who had been lying the whole time.

The Emporer was wearing no clothes and it was exposed to the World.

I suspect you're not quite fairly describing why you got "derided", given the general attitude towards Biden and his age on here.

 

[gfactor86]

Not so sure.

Trump will outburst, but at least he will be coherent and energetic. Biden more likely to ramble something uncoherently or just freeze on stage. My bet is that Trump will win the debate and the Democrats will be forced into a change of leadership. I think it is cruel to allow Biden to continue considering he is unwell and not fit to govern.

For context, this was all I posted before the debate. You should see the comments and trolling I received for this....