2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Just need the press to get the message out.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/10/harris-inflation-solid-economy-00183210
Harris is riding a dream economy into the election. It may be too late for voters to notice.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/10/harris-inflation-solid-economy-00183210
So my post wasn't about you, but about this third-party-voting discourse that has gone around on circles here, and elsewhere online, since 2016, despite this very important fact (libertarian = 3X green) going simply unacknowledged.
About your reply, on one level there is surely a tension between Palestine and Ukraine. But on another, there is a massive difference too, one that is hard to overstate.
If Stein becomes president, the fear (and as far as I can see, her stated policy) is she would stop military aid to Ukraine. Ukraine would be left only with EU military and humanitarian aid, which might be inadequate and could collapse because of internal EU politics once the US pulls out. As far as I can see, there is no talk of sanctions relief for Russia, let alone diplomatic support. Basically, taking a pessimistic view, Ukraine would be left militarily alone to face a nuclear-armed superpower.
That latter case - facing a nuclear armed power alone - is the best case for Palestine. It is the position of Jill Stein, less than 10% of the Senate, and less than 5% of the House, to suspend military aid to Israel. Stein, and similarly negligible numbers of US electeds, also support the ICC/ICJ case against Israel.
What isn't on the table, in order of escalation, is sanctions on other countries supplying the IDF, sanctions on the Israeli economy as a whole, and finally military aid for Palestine - all of which Ukraine is getting currently.
So while there is certainly tension between them, it's important to note that ethnic cleansing in Ukraine is the expected outcome of doing to Russia what pro-Palestinians in their wildest dreams want to do to Israel. That is how skewed the starting points are on this.
Not sure if someone posted this here before:
So is the conclusion to vote for Stein anyway, or abstain from voting because they're all bad options anyway?
I think Stein would do much more against Russia (keeping sanctions) than Harris would do against Israel (a negative number, she'd do things for, not against, Israel), so it's still a better choice.
e - again my position here has been that i want some honesty from harris voters about what exactly they're voting for.
What makes you think Stein would do more against Russia?
today the NYT has a story about trump ordering musk what to remove from x the everything app. this is on its face very illegal. cant speak for all of them, but a good chunk of apathetic voters might be more motivated by the justice dept taking a harder line on trump and other magaworld figures like musk.
if harris was bombing gaza and wanted to lock up protestors, it might be 5% easier to swallow if she was equally hardline against the right.
if harris was bombing gaza and wanted to lock up protestors, it might be 5% easier to swallow if she was equally hardline against the right.
i explained in the post above. stein's main threat is to stop US military aid to russia. that keeps in place EU military aid, US and EU humanitarian aid, and US and EU sanctions. maybe the word "do" should have been replaced by "continue to do" or something like that.
I dislike Stein, but it would be interesting to see if these people would be willing to condemn Biden or Netanyahu war criminals. I'm guessing most of them wouldn't, and would in fact defend the slaughter of Palestinian civilians.
Stein is basically paid opposition, and an obvious shill for Putin, that said, is running ads against her really something dems should be doing?
Seems like a waste of time to me, it's not going to help get any green party voters, and besides, she is going to get like 1%, if that, could matter some places, but largely she is irrelevant.
Seems like a waste of time to me, it's not going to help get any green party voters, and besides, she is going to get like 1%, if that, could matter some places, but largely she is irrelevant.
I bet that dumb cnut doesn't even know where the sun goes at night.
She's doing the opposite of being hardline, and doing so deliberately because she's trying to win the right over, hence continued slaughter of civilians in Palestine and fracking free-for-all.
I still hope that cnut Trump doesn't win though. What a fecking mess we are in.
The entire point of Vatnik soup it is to expose Russia and pro-Russia shills. He's got hundreds of those threads. Asking why they aren't talking about something that isn't Russia is basically meaningless.
Meh, not a fan of this type of stuff, but i guess some Haley-voters could be happy.
You don't need to have any education related to economics to understand this stuff, JFC...
Watch the Howard Stern interview when he asked her if she would add Liz Cheney to her cabinet.
Republican terrorists caused a stop to counting, handing Bush the election. Sounds familiar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
i just get this image in my mind of a US tax official walking around China and saying "Trump says you got to pay"
This seems to be how they think it works.
I listened to the whole thing yesterday and I'm pretty sure this has been clipped up on the tweet incorrectly. He gave a long winded answer about it's up to the states and started talking about IVF.
The response about him not answering the question was them asking him who to say who he thought was behind the assassination attempt.
Generally, I thought the interview largely went well for him, though it had no substance. The guys on the pod didn't ask any tough questions and seemed to like him. He came across like a "normal" person that can have a laugh albeit narcissistic character in my opinion. A lot of self proclamation about how great he is. I think the most bizarre thing was him talking as if there would have been no wars if he was president. Apparently he would have stopped Russia invading Ukraine and the Israel/Palestine fighting wouldn't be happening if he was president.
You'd be shocked the number of people who think that raising Chinese tariffs hurts the Chinese, and Trump knows it. I doubt for a second Trump doesn't understand how tariffs work. He simply knows how stupid his base are. They're just going to roar "Yeah!! Raise those tariffs! Teach those Chinese a lesson!" Trump would rather screw over Americans and take full advantage of his base's stupidity if it meant him becoming more popular amongst stupid people. I'd go as far as to say Trump could call his base stupid to their faces and they would love him more.
No, i don't think Trump understands how tariffs works either, there are a lot of things he doesn't understand how works, he is genuinely a dumb individual.
Few weeks ago, he threatened tariffs on John Deere if they outsourced some of their operations to Mexico, and yet he signed a renegotiation of NAFTA that allowed for companies to do this, and that perfectly sums up Trump.
Either he doesn't understand or he doesn't care.
I don't think he cares. That's pretty much how I see his personality type. He would drive over pensioners if it meant obtaining what he wants. We don't have to look too far to see what he attempted with the fake electors, and what his plan was to try and remain in power. It's about as devious a plan as they come, and he was willing to give it a shot. He relies on people's stupidity, and with Maga there is no shortage.
Here are my updated projections for the total number of returned mail ballots for Florida and Pennsylvania.
2024 - FL Projected Mail Ballots Returned:
Democrat: 1,057,663
Republican: 884,150
No Party Affiliation: 511,741
Other: 52,266
2024 - PA Projected Mail Ballots Returned:
Democrat: 1,679,634
Republican: 741,833
Other: 304,213
https://spoutible.com/thread/36804116
I like this.
2024 - FL Projected Mail Ballots Returned:
Democrat: 1,057,663
Republican: 884,150
No Party Affiliation: 511,741
Other: 52,266
2024 - PA Projected Mail Ballots Returned:
Democrat: 1,679,634
Republican: 741,833
Other: 304,213
https://spoutible.com/thread/36804116
I like this.
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"they both do it" is not the point. As the video plainly shows, trump sold tariffs as "only impacting the Chinese". He sells this as "Chinese tariffs" and people get this perception of it somehow being like war reparations of the past. That China simply handed money to america.... just "because". When Biden implements shit tariffs...guess what? They are shit!
Tariffs have their place, dumping and national security being the obvious grounds to skew markets, but when Trump sells them as essentially reparations, they are then thrown out as the solution to everything.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/trump-favors-huge-new-tariffs-how-do-they-work
There are "levels of stupid" when it comes to the tariff game.
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Of course you can because they are two separate issues.
First, pretty much no one adopts a theoretical moral system and follows that system and only that system 100% of the time. That's just not a human trait. So the decision to vote or not vote is based on the universality principle whereas how one will vote is based on greatest good for the greatest number. There is no actual contradiction there in the real world.
Even just in utilitarianism, I don't think your objection makes any sense because you're essentially saying only the person whose vote tips the balance in the end obtains utility from the consequences which is a bit nonsensical. So if the vote difference is 10,000 in one state you'd be claiming only those 10,000 get utility from their choice winning but that's flawed because 1) you can never determine who that 10,000 out of the entire slate of voters actually is and 2) everyone on the winning side is going to gain utility from voting for the winner.
don't focus on the exact numbers, those were an example. There is a wealth of evidence that Trump would be materially worse for Palestinians based on his history as President, comments, and what his top donor says. Just look at the video posted earlier from a Palestinian activist who sums it up for you.
And that's not even taking into account the dozen other important issues that are at stake.
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It's not really either, in Trunp's case it's both
I know we like to latch on any bit of good news that we can but Bouzy is a bs merchant. The total number of PA Mail ballots REQUESTED stood at 1.62m yesterday, and there are 12 days left until the deadline, the average requests perday now is like 20k, so at best its maxing out to 1.9-2m. Where is he finding another 700-800k+ ballots returned, which means more like extra 1m+ in requests?
It's simply not serious, he got a lot of props for not buying the Red Wave in 2022 but plenty of other people did, and he also said he would delete his account if Ds didnt win both Senate+House, or they would win 54 Senate seats.
there's something interesting that happened between alex jones and Q and all that, not sure what the full explanation is. but i think it's started from, and changed from, this:
I'll skip over the deontology vs utilitarianism, because them being incompatible is so straightforwardly true that I don't know what to say.
Under basic utilitarianism, every action is essentially a cost/benefit analysis. Unless the election is decided by a single vote, then the action of voting doesn't impact the result and any utility derived from the ruling party/person winning is not part of the equation.
Your best bet if you want to justify your vote morally would either be in the form of a deontological argument, go for a type of rule utilitarianism, or virtue ethics. Not basic utilitarianism, that's a losing battle. If you're jumping between moral frameworks to justify it, though, then you're probably not justifying it at all, but rather starting from a conclusion and trying to find something to back up what you've already decided on.
There’s no way Trump doesn’t understand how tariffs work. He is a dumb feck but he knows his supporters are dumber.
The strongest evidence of any kind is the fact that the current Israel/Gaza war has the highest death toll for Palestinians by an enormous amount and it happened under Biden. This is substantially stronger than any comments anyone has ever made and is been largely handwaved as some inevitable accident of fate.
To be fair, Twitter is the only Republican big social media platform, and was very left before Musk bought it. Zuck tries to be neutral but Meta is still more Democrat leaning. And Google is more left than the Democrats themselves. No idea about TikTok.
There’s nothing ‘fair’ about it because Facebook/Insta/Tik Tok isn’t aggressively pushing right wing content the way Musk’s Twitter does, the For You tab is literally chocked full of MAGA contents actively filling your feed. Also I’m not sure what you meant about Google because the only big social space they own is YouTube and YouTube is 100% not lefty friendly in its content moderation, you can’t possibly claim that when anything from Ben Shapiro to alt right incels to Andrew Tate to fake natty bodybuilders and every other color of kooky right wing characters have thrived on that platform over the years, and then on the other hand a show that’s not even especially left wing like David Pakman has ran into multiple rounds of demonetisation and contents flags.
Social media space by its nature skew left because of the demographics populating it. Having more lefties because they are young and grew up being used to airing their politics online is not by itself proof of the network being biased, it’s just how it has dynamically evolved. What we are seeing is a concerted effort from the right to invade those space and artificially suppress any ideology that doesn’t agree with theirs, backed by big money in an unprecedented way, and it’s succeeding because there’s no equal pushback from the left, and the result is a lot of young impressionable boys being redpilled and start parroting the ‘sigma’, ‘alpha’ mindset before graduating to hating wokes and women. We are watching a gender divide growing in politics that has never been seen before due to that culture war shit the right has been waging, not limited to, but predominantly on these online spaces.