Ridiculous uneven bars from team gbHad no idea we were about to get a bronze in gymnastics- I had it on in the background, and whenever they weren't talking about Russia vs US for gold, I kept hearing of how well Italy and France were doing
2021 Summer Olympics (Tokyo)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Those last two floor routines from the ROC athletes were fantastic. Well deserved in the end. Feel for Biles and the USA, but 3.4 points was a hell of a margin.
You get home runs in softball too. These pitchers are just really good.
That's the margin between Chiles and Listunova on the floor
Wow, didn't realise that. Then again, she'd have had to score a 15.2 to win it (I'm guessing that's very hard to do on floor, dunno).
15.2 is up there. It’s around what would have won you a silver medal in the individual floor event in 2016 and 2012.
3v3 basketball is great fun.
Was a good final to watch as well.Estonia won gold in the women's team epee
Mens 100m freestyle looks like it will be a great race too tomorrow.
Best ever start for GB. Hopefully we can be strong in our usual events and get a best haul in recent games.
Hard to be critical of someone dealing with mental issues in these times and I fully consider mental problems to be a medical issue as well. Hope she deals with this appropriately and can make a return on Thursday although that's obviously of secondary importance at the moment.
BUT. I do think one could or should expect more from a self-proclaimed GOAT, who have the tendency to deliver on the biggest occasions, both phsyically and mentally. Like I said it's totally secondary at the moment and I can 100% symphatize with her decision from a human perspective, but from a solely sporting perspective, I don't think it's "wrong" to consider this a failure on her part?
Same goes with Osaka for me. I think it's wonderful what she's doing to promote mental health and fully supported her with her Roland Garros decision, BUT if she continues to withdraw or fail because of those problems, she won't ever get to GOAT status or in the conversion (obviously different story for Biles who already is the GOAT imo).
She had it on her leotard so yes?
I was referring to the fact that she has the GOAT images on her clothes and accessories, so you'd think that she also think the is yeah (and I do too, for the record).
You have completely contradicted yourself here by starting of by saying you think it’s a medical issue, then by saying it’s a failure from her part.
@RobinLFC
It seems she wanted to retire before this but decided to continue as she was under a lot of pressure to carry the team + help mentor the younger members.
She's been carrying a lot of injuries, I think it's just becoming a bit too much for her unfortunately. She's been doing it a long time now and your body can only put up with that for so long.
I'm sure her full reasoning will become apparent soon, but fair play to her for stepping back and saying "you know what i'm not up to this, please somebody else take my place". That takes a lot of humility.
Well done to the british girls! can't believe they got a bronze. I've never fully appreciated it in the past but gymnastics really is incredible. The way they launch themselves with such speed and power is admirable
It seems she wanted to retire before this but decided to continue as she was under a lot of pressure to carry the team + help mentor the younger members.
She's been carrying a lot of injuries, I think it's just becoming a bit too much for her unfortunately. She's been doing it a long time now and your body can only put up with that for so long.
I'm sure her full reasoning will become apparent soon, but fair play to her for stepping back and saying "you know what i'm not up to this, please somebody else take my place". That takes a lot of humility.
Well done to the british girls! can't believe they got a bronze. I've never fully appreciated it in the past but gymnastics really is incredible. The way they launch themselves with such speed and power is admirable
Well, I just meant that I don't think it's not "real" or anything like that. But it's not a medical issue like a broken ankle either. So in that sense I do think it's a failure because it can be overcome, if that makes sense? And not even sure if that's true by the way, I have no experience whatsoever with it but just want to say that I don't want to dismiss her issue.
These are young adults who have a different perspective on performance, pressure, fame, and time.
One thing I've noticed is that they are sometimes unable to say no or just do things on their terms.
Five years ago, Biles just competed and took everything in stride. As time passes with your successes, you start to believe a lot of things said about you and it can be hard to humble yourself, yet showcase that you're the best. It's a hard thing to do when everyone and more is in your shit.
And that doesn't include what your body can respond to. Gymnastics is a different animal and injuries are always a factor, as is age.
Not having family and full support around them must be really hard and difficult. It takes a different mentality and maturity to excel in these times, and for many of these athletes, five years and a disrupted world championship season and trials has totally altered their preparation.
Seeing the families supporting their athletes is difficult to accept because this Olympics has been extremely hollow without the normal crowds and in person support.
One thing I've noticed is that they are sometimes unable to say no or just do things on their terms.
Five years ago, Biles just competed and took everything in stride. As time passes with your successes, you start to believe a lot of things said about you and it can be hard to humble yourself, yet showcase that you're the best. It's a hard thing to do when everyone and more is in your shit.
And that doesn't include what your body can respond to. Gymnastics is a different animal and injuries are always a factor, as is age.
Not having family and full support around them must be really hard and difficult. It takes a different mentality and maturity to excel in these times, and for many of these athletes, five years and a disrupted world championship season and trials has totally altered their preparation.
Seeing the families supporting their athletes is difficult to accept because this Olympics has been extremely hollow without the normal crowds and in person support.
Obviously yeah. But I also feel like it's such a sensitive topic that you can't even question it, let alone criticize it. And like I stated above I have no experience with it but just think it's interesting. Our Belgian commentator kind of lost the plot with comments like "you can fake a mental problem", "she could've just done this out of performance anxiety" and "she has completely bailed on her teammates right there" and he's now being criticized (almost cancelled, I should say) on Twitter for it.
Could you imagine MJ sitting out a Finals game because he wasn't up to it? Different times I know but I feel it would be more criticized than symphatized with.
I think that’s a terrible way to look at mental health by the way, but we don’t even know yet what is wrong with her it could be something more serious than nerves or stress.
If the medical staff has also taken the decision to pull her I think it’s safe to say it’s the correct decision, if you’re carrying injuries for a long time it can lead to serious mental health issues.
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This Olympics has grown on me big time. It's an all-dayer thing where I am and the extensive coverage of it hasn't been good with regard to my work productivity.
Just going by the reports that we do have right now.
It's not really like the medical staff can do anything if she says she feels like this or that or says she'd rather sit out, or am I missing something? Like I said I try to be careful as I don't know much about the subject and want to be fully supportive of mental health issues, I just wanted to raise the question whether it's fair to take something like this into the equation if we're assessing or comparing greats of the game (not gymnastics specifically but sports in general). E.g. I know Phelps has/had mental health problems but it never showed when it mattered (that I know of). If it had, and he wouldn't have won 23 Gold medals because of it, we wouldn't be calling him the greatest Olympic ever or have him in that debate. And that's totally fine and I'd still be supportive of that if it had happened as I think it's way more important than on the field performances - but from a solely sporting perspective I just thought it was a fair or interesting quesion to raise.
It's an interesting evolution that feeling mentally unwell under the pressure to perform is now considered the same as a physical injury for some. I tend to think being able to cope with the pressure is something defining for an athlete in terms of their greatness. All Olympians are obviously greater than the average member of society in this regard but the very greatest are able to shoulder the burden.
I'm not aiming this as a criticism of Biles as I don't really know much about her legacy to comment nor do we know the exact nature of the withdrawal.
With that sport screwing up has some pretty big risks too: missing a vault by a hair could really mess you up.
I'm also not talking specifically about Biles, she has proven that she's able to perform under the greatest pressure imaginable from a young age so doesn't need to prove anything anymore imo. But the bolded bit is what I was aiming at, whether it's fair to "lower" an athlete's greatness because of it.
For me the mental side of sport is just as crucial an attribute as strength or dexterity or height or whatever. Athletes have to be practically sociopathic to succeed at the very highest level.
So its inferred, imo, that the greatest athletes have absolutely world class mental strength as well as all the physical side.
So its inferred, imo, that the greatest athletes have absolutely world class mental strength as well as all the physical side.
Plenty of athletes have choked under pressure. It's not like she's never performed under pressure either, she's won how many times in the past? over 30 olympic medals. Clearly "performance pressure" is not the reason.
I think it's fair to say maybe her head wasn't in the right place coming into these games. If it was her choice alone she probably wouldn't have gone - but felt she had to do it. Only she can answer why she decided to no longer compete, but if she didn't feel at her best and felt like it would weight the team down or be potentially dangerous to herself, then I can understand why. This isn't the sort of sport you can do half hearted.
Britain's Paula Radcliffe is a good example. Undoutedly the best female marathon runner for a while with a long standing world record but her collapses at the Olympics definitely relegated her in the estimation of the British public when it comes to considering her greatness. It always seemed like a psychological block for her too.
Mental health isn’t a tap you can turn on or off I don’t think a multiple gold medal winning athlete just says I don’t fancy this and pulls out.
For all we know she could be suffering really badly for a long time she said in a tweet the only time she is happy is when she is off, that’s not a good sign.
As I said before injuries can lead to serious mental health issues, what if she’s severely depressed or hearing voices or paranoid?
Definitely agree with the first part!
It takes tremendous courage to tell your teammates you don't feel up to it, I don't think she bailed on them or anything. Just (prematurely) wondering if this will be held against her if she's one day compared against the likes of Phelps and Bolt for example. Given the importance of mental health, it maybe shouldn't? But I also agree with @Beachryan that what seperates the great from the GOATs is an undeniably world class mental strength (not aimed at Biles because again, she's already done enough to show the world that she does or did have that to perform under such pressure at that age). Difficult one.
But you also need to consider in relatively good what Lee did, who would have been the one who would have sat out. Her score was what, 13.7? I don’t think Biles would have achieved 3.4 more than that. But when you accumulate what Biles might have done on some of the other apparatus, it could have added up. All in all though I still think itd have been a mammoth task all things considered, even with Biles. The Russians were excellent.
Unfortunately I don’t think we are slated to win as many in Rowing and Sailing where we are usually very strong. But it’s been great so far without doubt.
30 olympic medals? Wtf?
@Adam-Utd would’ve meant 30 World Championship medals (she doesn't but has a still remarkable 25). So 31 global medals if you combine World & Olympics.
Even the legendary Michael Phelps didn’t get 30 Olympic medals
I think it’s 30 world and Olympic medals.
Maybe she's distracted by updates on the Varane transfer.
Kosovo still in top 10, having won 2 gold medals this Olympics. In our two olympics, we won 3 gold medals, which equals Serbia in their entire history, and is more than Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro (neighboring countries) combined.
The crazy thing is that the three girls who won these medals are all from the same neighborhood in a tiny town of circa 100k people. That coach (Toni Kuka) is a magician. Until recently he had not much support from the state, and still managed to train 3 girls to win gold, 1 of which for several years was the best pound to pound best female judoka in the world.
The crazy thing is that the three girls who won these medals are all from the same neighborhood in a tiny town of circa 100k people. That coach (Toni Kuka) is a magician. Until recently he had not much support from the state, and still managed to train 3 girls to win gold, 1 of which for several years was the best pound to pound best female judoka in the world.
@RobinLFC
I think you’re perhaps misunderstanding mental health to some degree. It’s a constant battle, a tug of war between whatever the mental challenge is and being able to cope with it. 99.99% of the time you’d never even know if someone has a problem. I’m sure there are many people you know who suffer mental health issues which live perfectly normal lives, and you’d never know. Sometimes what tips you over the edge is something that accumulates and builds over time. None of us know what her underlying issue or cause is, but we should be very careful to presume it is related to pressure of the games. It might be what tipped her over the edge to pull out but the issue might be bigger and completely unrelated. In some ways, you could add a perspective that it shows incredible mental strength to admit you’re not right to perform knowing the whole world is looking at you. And if the issue is something more fundamental and underlying then it’s amazing she has achieved what she has already.
I get what you’re saying about other athletes. But perhaps they don’t have whatever underlying issue Biles has been grappling with. Something tells me, and of course just my view, that whatever it is, it’s more than just “couldn’t hack the pressure”. I don’t think it takes away from her greatness at all. Some might say it does, but that might be ignorance to actually truly understanding mental health.
I think you’re perhaps misunderstanding mental health to some degree. It’s a constant battle, a tug of war between whatever the mental challenge is and being able to cope with it. 99.99% of the time you’d never even know if someone has a problem. I’m sure there are many people you know who suffer mental health issues which live perfectly normal lives, and you’d never know. Sometimes what tips you over the edge is something that accumulates and builds over time. None of us know what her underlying issue or cause is, but we should be very careful to presume it is related to pressure of the games. It might be what tipped her over the edge to pull out but the issue might be bigger and completely unrelated. In some ways, you could add a perspective that it shows incredible mental strength to admit you’re not right to perform knowing the whole world is looking at you. And if the issue is something more fundamental and underlying then it’s amazing she has achieved what she has already.
I get what you’re saying about other athletes. But perhaps they don’t have whatever underlying issue Biles has been grappling with. Something tells me, and of course just my view, that whatever it is, it’s more than just “couldn’t hack the pressure”. I don’t think it takes away from her greatness at all. Some might say it does, but that might be ignorance to actually truly understanding mental health.
That’s what I love about the Olympics you have all these powerful countries trying to gobble up all the medals then every once in a while an extraordinary athlete will blow them out the water from a country that hasn’t even been well funded.
It’s the Olympic dream!
@Adam-Utd would’ve meant 30 World Championship medals (she doesn't but has a still remarkable 25). So 31 global medals if you combine World & Olympics.
Even the legendary Michael Phelps didn’t get 30 Olympic medals
He named two of his sons Boomer and Maverick Phelps. He's beyond a legend.
Cheers for that mate. Of course no one can look inside her head so I indeed don't wanna make assumptions. I think I do (or did) feel that it takes away from greatness because it's both physical+mental for me, but like you say I don't wanna feel that way if it means it's plain and simple ignoring or misunderstanding mental health problems. Just trying to learn something here