2019/20 Rivals - Arsenal

Pogue Mahone said:
Eh? Wasn’t I discussing them with you after the Liverpool game? I was basically arguing that desperate backs to the wall defending for 90 minutes isn’t a sustainable or admirable approach and your overall results in the league since restart are average to poor.

Turns out packing your own box got you one more scalp (which I didn’t post about, true) then, lo and behold, the very next game you don’t get a single shot on target. Against Aston Villa.
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Genuine question, which manager do you think would be able to play attacking football with this squad? What team would you pick? Go through our attacking players and midfielders and there's genuinely zero creativity, Ozil aside.

I mean, just look at your own team as an example. In the first half of the season you lost 7 league games. Since you signed Bruno and got Pogba back fit you've not lost a single league game and you've been blowing teams away. Do you think that's because Ole suddenly remembered how to coach again, or rightfully, because you added creativity and your team is now balanced going forwards?
 
Mogget said:
Genuine question, which manager do you think would be able to play attacking football with this squad? What team would you pick? Go through our attacking players and midfielders and there's genuinely zero creativity, Ozil aside.

I mean, just look at your own team as an example. In the first half of the season you lost 7 league games. Since you signed Bruno and got Pogba back fit you've not lost a single league game and you've been blowing teams away. Do you think that's because Ole suddenly remembered how to coach again, or rightfully, because you're balanced going forward?
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Honest answer. I have similar doubts about Ole as a manager to what I have about Arteta.

But at least Ole’s got two objectively excellent run of league results to point to in his defence. One when he first started and another, more recent, one. Which is why it gets my goat to see the media and United fans on here lavish so much praise on Arteta during a run of bang average results.
 
AshRK said:
This season has to be a write off for them. But surely a slow start again to next season then he should be treated no differently to Emery.

Having said that his tactics and Arsenal's playing style has been god damn awful and he gets a lot of free pass for that.
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To be fair, everybody would have said the first thing for Arteta to sort out would be the defence.
Im not saying they are suddenly mid 90s Arsenal but limiting their attacking play to shore up that disaster of a backline isnt that bad of a tradeoff.
Use this nothing season to get them into good habits for their campaign next year.
Actually use it to win games.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Honest answer. I have similar doubts about Ole as a manager to what I have about Arteta.

But at least Ole’s got two objectively excellent run of league results to point to in his defence. One when he first started and another, more recent, one. Which is why it gets my goat to see the media and United fans on here lavish so much praise on Arteta during a run of bang average results.
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Yeah, but you know how knee-jerk this place is. Quick to overrate opposition players or managers, and then even quicker to turn on them. The media only really started going over the top with their praise of Arteta after we beat Liverpool and City within the space of a week, which is a fairly impressive achievement. Before that it was just acknowledging he's made us more organised. I don't think it's really fair to properly judge Arteta until he's had more time to coach the team and we hopefully sign the players he wants.
 
KM said:
When he first joined Arsenal, they were just two points behind us. Now they're nine points behind us with a match to spare. It's hilarious how much hyped he is as compared to Ole. Good for us though.

and it's not as if they're dropping points where they deserve to win, their XG is the same as it was Emery.
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Do you want to judge a manager after half a year taking over an unbalanced team? Nothing to compare yet it's way to early to judge him. Not the worst and not the best start. Sortet out the defense to some degree but still pretty bad going forward. And I haven't seen the big hype you are talking about.

You also cannot compare Uniteds Squad to Arsenals Squad. And sometimes one player can make a big diffrence (Bruno Fernandes). Thats our biggest problem actually the creative mind.
 
Gazza said:
Genuine question for Arsenal fans: nearing the end of his first season, what's the feeling on Nicolas Pepe? Obviously the money you paid for him is unlikely to ever look like a bargain, but what's the score? Is he still finding his feet, is it a tactical or positional thing, or does he just have a much lower ceiling than you would have hoped when you signed him? I don't watch them enough, but he does seem incredibly wasteful/unproductive from what I have seem.
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He's been very underwhelming. I don't know if it's a confidence thing because he's shown flashes of brilliance, but then he'll have a game where it looks like he can't even control a football. I think he has the potential to be very good in a counter attacking set up but he looks clueless against a packed defence.

I think it also doesn't help him that we're so one dimensional right now. Because we have no creativity in the middle we always end up trying to attack down the wings, which becomes predictable and easy to defend.
 
Grealish could be great signing for arsenal. Their biggest problem is lack of creativity in midfield. But the overall squad is average at best. They will struggle again next year to finish in top 6. They should try to buy young talents as I don't see any established top players will be attracted to them at the moment.
 
Mogget said:
Genuine question, which manager do you think would be able to play attacking football with this squad? What team would you pick? Go through our attacking players and midfielders and there's genuinely zero creativity, Ozil aside.

I mean, just look at your own team as an example. In the first half of the season you lost 7 league games. Since you signed Bruno and got Pogba back fit you've not lost a single league game and you've been blowing teams away. Do you think that's because Ole suddenly remembered how to coach again, or rightfully, because you added creativity and your team is now balanced going forwards?
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Considering you did bring Ole let me tell you we were still playing better brand of football before Bruno joined than what arteta produces week in week out. Did you even see us play against City at etihad when we were without Pogba and did not sign Bruno. The first 40 mins was some of the best football we have played and with better finishing we could have been 3 or 4-0. We have brushed aside many opponents even before Bruno joined and let us not forget we were also without Pogba and Martial for good amount of time and yet played better football. Yes Bruno has made a huge difference and there were games we looked clueless but we still had good games. In your case whenever I see you guys play, you are just too slow and hardly look to attack.

Like I said this season is a write off for you guys but what I am questioning is his playing style. Arteta has done a good job for organizing that crap defense but the football you lot have been playing is not sustainable. We have seen that under lvg and Jose and even under Jose we were not this bad with our attacking play. Also, You don't need a top creative midfielder to dominate and create chances against Villa. You guys had 0 shot on target. Remember the trolling Jose received after spurs had 0 shot on target against Bournemouth. You guys have got some good attacking players and I definitely expect more fun football to be played.
 
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Mogget said:
Genuine question, which manager do you think would be able to play attacking football with this squad? What team would you pick? Go through our attacking players and midfielders and there's genuinely zero creativity, Ozil aside.

I mean, just look at your own team as an example. In the first half of the season you lost 7 league games. Since you signed Bruno and got Pogba back fit you've not lost a single league game and you've been blowing teams away. Do you think that's because Ole suddenly remembered how to coach again, or rightfully, because you added creativity and your team is now balanced going forwards?
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If it's any comfort to you, Spurs fans seem to rate Arteta pretty highly! At least while they were losing to Sheffield United and drawing with Bournemouth. Haven't seen any oppo fan rate Ole on the other hand.
 
Mogget said:
Genuine question, which manager do you think would be able to play attacking football with this squad? What team would you pick? Go through our attacking players and midfielders and there's genuinely zero creativity, Ozil aside.

I mean, just look at your own team as an example. In the first half of the season you lost 7 league games. Since you signed Bruno and got Pogba back fit you've not lost a single league game and you've been blowing teams away. Do you think that's because Ole suddenly remembered how to coach again, or rightfully, because you added creativity and your team is now balanced going forwards?
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If you're lacking creativity then why arent you playing Ozil? In my opinion the 3 best players at Arsenal are Aubamayeng, Ozil and Lacazette. Any Arsenal team should be built around them.Pepe too i suppose. a 443 with Ozil as a 10 or a narrow 4231. You've got decent fullbacks for width too.
 
cyberman said:
To be fair, everybody would have said the first thing for Arteta to sort out would be the defence.
Im not saying they are suddenly mid 90s Arsenal but limiting their attacking play to shore up that disaster of a backline isnt that bad of a tradeoff.
Use this nothing season to get them into good habits for their campaign next year.
Actually use it to win games.
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But I still don't think this style of football is going to be sustainable long term. Unless he is emulating simeone or Jose which is not a bad thing. But to be simeone 2.0 you need hardworking players who will die for you in the pitch. And thats a total opposite of what arsenal are known for.

Again I don't want to be over critical of arteta but if you see a similar brand of football again next season then surely questions would have to be asked.
 
I was calling for them to play 3 at the back since the restart (honest), and they've at least looked better defensively since doing that.

Still don't get why they play Auba as a LWF though. Yes he's their best player out there but he's also their best CF, and when they are chasing a game he then seems to drop back down the flank to try and get involved in the build up more even though passing is really not his strength.

Think they should play a 3-5-2 rather than a 3-4-3, but ideally they need a new CB, at least a couple of new CMs/AMs, and pray that Aubameyang signs a new deal to have any hope of getting near the top 4 next season.

GK (both are pretty good)
RCB - doesn't really matter, they're all shite but you need one of them to play to cover for Luiz's brainfarts
CB - Luiz (the only CB that can pass)
LCB - Tierney (not really good enough going forward to play LWB but can defend well enough to play as a LCB)
RWB/RW - doesn't really matter, Bellerin is still alright and Cedric seems surprisingly also half decent
LWB/LWF - Saka - shown he is great going forward and with Tierney behind him he can play more like a LWF
RCM - Maitland Niles - not ideal, but shown he can defend well against City and would give them plenty of energy in the middle
LCM - Probably Xhaka, as at least he is better than Torreira
CM/AM - Probably Ceballos (would be Ozil if he was up for it) but he would be better suited to LCM to replace Xhaka and replaced with a better AM
ST - Auba
ST - Lacazette

Pepe isn't really needed as he's such a one dimensional player. Torreira likewise. At least they do have some reasonably bright attacking talents in Martinelli, Nelson & Nketiah who could be good enough to step up once Auba + Laca are past it.

(fyi my partner is an Arsenal fan so I watch an unreasonable amount of them so like to think I have a reasonably formed opinion of their squad :wenger: )
 
TwoSheds said:
I think the teamsheet was wrong in fairness. Lacazette played mostly down the middle from what I saw with Nketiah wide right. They badly need a creative player though. Outside of Ozil they've only really got Willock it seems and he's both inexperienced and very Arsenal-y. Saka and Nketiah look like they've got something about them mentally but I don't see it with Willock.
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Did Ozil played under Arteta yet? Because if he has no budget to buy no players he's still probably the most creative one in the squad.

I would be worried if I were Arsenal fan because the only good players they have will probably don't want to wait too long for them to challenge for a top 6 finish.
 
AshRK said:
Considering you did bring Ole let me tell you we were still playing better brand of football before Bruno joined than what arteta produces week in week out. Did you even see us play against City at etihad when we were without Pogba and did not sign Bruno. The first 40 mins was some of the best football we have played and with better finishing we could have been 3 or 4-0. We have brushed aside many opponents even before Bruno joined and let us not forget we were also without Pogba and Martial for good amount of time and yet played better football. Yes Bruno has made a huge difference and there were games we looked clueless but we still had good games. In your case whenever I see you guys play, you are just too slow and hardly look to attack.

Like I said this season is a write off for you guys but what I am questioning is his playing style. Arteta has done a good job for organizing that crap defense but the football you lot have been playing is not sustainable. We have seen that under lvg and Jose and even under Jose we were not this bad with our attacking play. Also, You don't need a top creative midfielder to dominate and create chances against Villa. You guys had 0 shot on target. Remember the trolling Jose received after spurs had 0 shot on target against Bournemouth. You guys have got some good attacking players and I definitely expect more fun football to be played.
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That City game is a weird example to use as evidence of your better brand of football. You finished the game with 28% possession. We had 29% possession against City in the FA cup. We've also brushed aside opponents under Arteta, most notably the 4-0 wins against Newcastle and Norwich, and the 2-0 win over Wolves. Even the 1-1 draw against Leicester, we had lots of chances to score in the first half and it was only after Nketiah got sent off we had to drop off.

I also think you're jumping to conclusions way too early. What makes you think the football we're playing is Arteta's playstyle, or that he think it's sustainable? It's pretty clear he's looked at this squad and decided the best way for us to get results is to make us harder to beat, and we're going to have to sacrifice some attacking play to achieve that. If we buy the players Arteta wants and we're still playing like this at the end of next season, then fair enough.

Which good attacking players do we have? There's Aubemeyang who's an amazing goalscorer but offers very little in the buildup. Lacazette is decent at linkup play, scores an amazing goal every now and again but isn't a consistent goal scorer or chance creator. Pepe has had a few good games but on the whole has been very underwhelming. And then we've got some promising teenagers. People who are expecting Arteta to have us playing Wengerball with the attackers and midfielders we've got are being very unrealistic.

Zlatattack said:
If you're lacking creativity then why arent you playing Ozil? In my opinion the 3 best players at Arsenal are Aubamayeng, Ozil and Lacazette. Any Arsenal team should be built around them.Pepe too i suppose. a 443 with Ozil as a 10 or a narrow 4231. You've got decent fullbacks for width too.
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Arteta wants full commitment from all of our players. He's by far our best player at creating chances but I guess he hasn't bought into that.
 
Yeah Ozil is probably the biggest conundrum for them. Fantastically gifted player but he seems content with his huge contract and living in London. He’s unfortunately not going to the player to really grab the bull by the horns. Bar messi though probably not a player in the world that can match his vision and ingenuity.
 
Mogget said:
That City game is a weird example to use as evidence of your better brand of football. You finished the game with 28% possession. We had 29% possession against City in the FA cup. We've also brushed aside opponents under Arteta, most notably the 4-0 wins against Newcastle and Norwich, and the 2-0 win over Wolves. Even the 1-1 draw against Leicester, we had lots of chances to score in the first half and it was only after Nketiah got sent off we had to drop off.

I also think you're jumping to conclusions way too early. What makes you think the football we're playing is Arteta's playstyle, or that he think it's sustainable? It's pretty clear he's looked at this squad and decided the best way for us to get results is to make us harder to beat, and we're going to have to sacrifice some attacking play to achieve that. If we buy the players Arteta wants and we're still playing like this at the end of next season, then fair enough.

Which good attacking players do we have? There's Aubemeyang who's an amazing goalscorer but offers very little in the buildup. Lacazette is decent at linkup play, scores an amazing goal every now and again but isn't a consistent goal scorer or chance creator. Pepe has had a few good games but on the whole has been very underwhelming. And then we've got some promising teenagers. People who are expecting Arteta to have us playing Wengerball with the attackers and midfielders we've got are being very unrealistic.


Arteta wants full commitment from all of our players. He's by far our best player at creating chances but I guess he hasn't bought into that.
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It is clear you didn't watch the game and are just seeing the stats. I am not saying we tore city apart but the first 40 minutes we played some scintillating football ehich should have gotten us more goals. This is to your point when you said Ole also played similar football before Bruno arrived which is not true. Result wise we were not consistent but we had played some good football. Some good football last season before we fell off. Then start of the season against Chelsea 4-0, although we drew some games but we created some good chances. We did well against Liverpool at home where we conceded a late equalizer. Dominated Jose's spurs side at home and should have won by more than 1 goal.

Also, I never jumped on conclusions and said this is the football that arteta wants his team to play. Infact I did say this season is a write off for him. What I said is if you guys play the similar brand of football where you hardly create any chances and just sit back then questions have to be asked. The only game I can recall where you played some good football was against Leicester first half. Apart from that it has been a chore to watch you guys.

Again, you do not need worldclass attackers or creative midfielders to dominate or create chances against Villa. Apart from hitting the post you hardly created anything and the stat reads you had 0 shots on target. And don't say you had more possession than villa so you dominated them as having possession without creating anything is not dominating. Remember how Jose was trolled after 0 shots against Bournemouth.

Note: I am just commenting on the playing style and not even saying arteta is a bad coach as it would be harsh to say that.
 
On Ozil, I have a feeling that his exclusion is a decision that had been taken above him.
 
Mogget said:
Arteta wants full commitment from all of our players. He's by far our best player at creating chances but I guess he hasn't bought into that.
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Liver_bird said:
Yeah Ozil is probably the biggest conundrum for them. Fantastically gifted player but he seems content with his huge contract and living in London. He’s unfortunately not going to the player to really grab the bull by the horns. Bar messi though probably not a player in the world that can match his vision and ingenuity.
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Adisa said:
On Ozil, I have a feeling that his exclusion is a decision that had been taken above him.
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I'm not sure isolating him is going to help. If you can't ship him this summer, i think some re-concilliation is required. I think it should be the approach even before the start of the summer. Ozil is never going to be the action man sort but I think he can be motivated to contribute positively to the attack. Some players have egos, some are fragile - if Arsenal can't ship him, they need to get maximum effort out of him. At his age he should be the star of the show. In the short term build around him.
 
I think Arteta has done a decent job there, not brilliant but decent. They showed they can play decent football at times and he definitely seems to have decent ideas. The problem is the club has no plans going forward and their squad is totally fecked up.
 
Do Arsenal have the finances to sign someone like Grealish esp with Ozil and Aubameyang still there? I think Grealish is the type of player they are sorely missing and will bring a level above by himself. The same with Tottenham. Hopefully, for the AFTV thread's sake, it doesn't happen.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Honest answer. I have similar doubts about Ole as a manager to what I have about Arteta.

But at least Ole’s got two objectively excellent run of league results to point to in his defence. One when he first started and another, more recent, one. Which is why it gets my goat to see the media and United fans on here lavish so much praise on Arteta during a run of bang average results.
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Solskjaer has a much, much, much, much better squad to work with though.

I'm not sure that a dream team of Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti and Allegri could get much out of this bunch.

You can't turn water into wine.
 
AshRK said:
And weren't spurs like 14th or something when Jose took over them. For all the shit he gets he has done a better job than arteta has.
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I think his problem is that he causes so much drama that it looks like he's constantly running a shambles. When he was running away with league titles, he got away with it.
 
Will surely be Argentina number 1 soon given their mediocre options in that position.

Arsenal last few years had a good ability to peak in cup competitions but it's a hell of lot more different and difficult to get results v Man. City and Chelsea in league and keep consistancy in league for 30 odd games. Hell of a long way off the top 4 now and not sure they'll sign much to give them a good chance next season. Probably winning europa league will be their best bet so keeping Aubameyang is key for that.
 
NieThePiet said:


Football has his beautiful stories.
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Sounds controversy but he might be better than Leno. Been watching him since Leno got injured, been very solid & his ability as a keeper just above average of mid table keeper in PL in the matches he played with Arsenal. No doubt, he's going to be Argentina no 1 anytime soon. Too good to be no 2 for Arsenal.

However, I might be wrong since it could just be a short term syndrome but so far what he has shown, the calmness, the strength, his handling skills where few times I thought any keeper wouldn't be able to catch it are just better than lot of PL keeper.
 
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Saliba looks massive. Physically gifted for 19 yo centre back there.
 
FootballHQ said:
Will surely be Argentina number 1 soon given their mediocre options in that position.

Arsenal last few years had a good ability to peak in cup competitions but it's a hell of lot more different and difficult to get results v Man. City and Chelsea in league and keep consistancy in league for 30 odd games. Hell of a long way off the top 4 now and not sure they'll sign much to give them a good chance next season. Probably winning europa league will be their best bet so keeping Aubameyang is key for that.
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Let's not call Romero mediocre eh especially when comparing him to someone who it took 8 years before getting a sniff of 1st team football
 
charlenefan said:
Let's not call Romero mediocre eh especially when comparing him to someone who it took 8 years before getting a sniff of 1st team football
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Romero hasn't been called up since 2017? I was more on the options they took to the world cup, Cabellero, Marchesin and whoever was number 3.
 
FootballHQ said:
Romero hasn't been called up since 2017? I was more on the options they took to the world cup, Cabellero, Marchesin and whoever was number 3.
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2018 and would have played in the WC had injury not ruled him out
 
Zlatattack said:
If you're lacking creativity then why arent you playing Ozil? In my opinion the 3 best players at Arsenal are Aubamayeng, Ozil and Lacazette. Any Arsenal team should be built around them.Pepe too i suppose. a 443 with Ozil as a 10 or a narrow 4231. You've got decent fullbacks for width too.
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I know Ozil is known to go missing on the pitch, but that's no excuse for starting with 11 outfield players.
 


Business is business but wreck 55 people's life for 2.8M ?! Shameful.
 
That's very poor, how can they justify by firing 55 people or 55 positions to save 2.8 million when they will be signing some chumps for big money?
 
The only justification that you could probably make is that the club has been operating on a level of someone in the top 4 - title challenge level for the past decade or so when the results do not suggest that at all and therefore they'd be downsizing to reflect that. When clubs are relegated they also have to let some people go because the circumstances have changed and that's the same for Arsenal.

Where that argument falls though is that they are still planning to give Auba a huge wage rise and want to bring in other big names who will also be on hefty wages so they are still trying to operate on a 'big club' level in that respect. I guess you could counter that by saying that if they get these players they can get to that level again and can offer these 55 jobs again but that doesn't help those that have been made redundant today.

EDIT: Don't want anyone thinking I am endorsing this, I think it's rank personally that they want to splash out on wages for players but then can't spend 2m on these staff members who no doubt live and breath for the club.
 
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