2016/2017 Title race

buckooo1978 said:
hmmmm

it's a tough one - City should probably shade it on paper - I wonder will Pep's philosophy be more of a hinderance

I didn't see the City game but playing players like Clichy and Sagna centrally is daft.....

it might have worked ok with players of the class of Lahm/Alaba but I'd argue had Pep played them in their more familiar positions he'd have had a better chance of repeating the treble success Henkyes had.

Aguero is the key...he's the one player who is they will miss badly and don't have proper cover for.

at the same time, we could win the league but will selections cost us? over the long course will picking Rooney/Mata on the right/Fellaini starting hinder us as well? too early to tell and we got a good result at the weekend after a poor start in the game - much tougher tests to come though.

I think Liverpool will improve and with Chelsea eeking out wins it could be a very very competitive top 6.....
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Do they? lets look at the defence, jose think will strengthen the defence to rack up our numbers, look at the keeper situation at both united and city, pep's droped his no1 almost like the VG mentality in how he sees certain things, pep seems obsessed with things that are needed to be obsessed with. With jose like a few his teams, he has inherited the best keeper in the PL in DDG, he is joint best or just behind manuel neuer has the best keeper. I think united's options have improved in midfeld and attack. Jose has plan A and B, he can play rashford has a no9, drop rooney or zlaten, he could play pogba behind the frontman or put him in a 2 man pivot in CM, jose's more simple less philosephy defiantly works for this squad he is more flexible and less VG in his approach. Our only doubt is how our CM options pan out, if fellaini, herrera, morgan and carrick can all dove tail with pogba, but the key thing united have? we seem to have the old Jose Mourinho back to his best, is it early days? yes, but the fact we have a much settled no1, for me could be a huge factor on this PL title race, if the team continues to respond to what Jose Mourinho asks of them, we all know Jose Mourinho teams are terrifying when they become frustratingly consistent and officiant to rival teams, still Jose Mourinho's 2004/06 chelsea teams give me nightmares on what that team was able to do week in week out.

The key thing for us, we have a top manager in Jose Mourinho, a top GK in DDG, top CB in smalling, top CM in pogba, and a top CF in zlaten, these 5 options are crucial if we want to win this PL. Now if Pogba really does do what zlaten and bailly have done early on and build on that, we will be up there. Now like I say, if fellaini herrera, morgan and carrick all do their jobs jose asks from them, we have one hell of a chance. Everyone talks about our star names, those 4 CM options really will defy what we do week in week out

Treble said:
It's a myth that City have the best squad. The spin of their team consists mostly of players who are either in their 30s or injury prone or both: Kompany, Fernandinho, Gundogan, Silva, Aguero. Toure is 33 and has no future at City. Stones is yet to become a top defender. The fullbacks hardly impress, the youngsters are just that, they are likely to be too inconsistent. If Guardiola wins the title with this squad, it will be some achievement.

On paper, United must be favourites. Zlatan, Pogba and Miki greatly improve our options in midfield and attack. I expect Chelsea and Livepool to challenge as well, all the more they have no European distraction and will be able to play with great intensity. Luck and injuries may decide the title eventually.
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No one ever highlights this, look our no1 GK, and look at the others no1, 5 key components that could be crucial in our pursuit for the title, the old Jose is back, DDG, smalling, pogba, zlaten, if the team continues to respond in how the great Jose Mourinho sides respond, how blind bailly and smaling work out, we have a great chance. If he gets the best out of fellaini, herrera, morgan and carrick, get the best out of pogba, rooney and zlaten, we have the pace in martial, valencia and shaw, and that for me will be crucial in how we challenge for this PL
 
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I reckon Liverpool are right in it especially without European football and Klopp having a full pre season with the team gives them an advantage.

1st United
2nd Liverpool
3rd Arsenal
4th Chelsea
5th Tottenham
6th City
 
jelaiho said:
I reckon Liverpool are right in it especially without European football and Klopp having a full pre season with the team gives them an advantage.

1st United
2nd Liverpool
3rd Arsenal
4th Chelsea
5th Tottenham
6th City
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City will not finish 6th.
 
I think that we are slight favourites but at the same time we lack a bit of pace and intensity in our first XI. A team with Carrick, Mata, Rooney, and Zlatan won't play with much intensity and pace. Martial and Shaw may be not enough for quicker football.
 
Treble said:
I think that we are slight favourites but at the same time we lack a bit of pace and intensity in our first XI. A team with Carrick, Mata, Rooney, and Zlatan won't play with much intensity and pace. Martial and Shaw may be not enough for quicker football.
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I don't think carrick will play allot of games, and I don't think he will play all 4, its what Jose wants from different games, he has 2 formations he will use, some games he may go in with far more energy in some games, think Pogba will give us a whole new kind of thrust through the middle of our team, the key thing valencia, shaw pogba and martial will give us that drive through the middle, not to mention the likes of herrera and hey even fellaini think will give us the energy in certain games in the middle when we need the bite
 
jelaiho said:
I reckon Liverpool are right in it especially without European football and Klopp having a full pre season with the team gives them an advantage.

1st United
2nd Liverpool
3rd Arsenal
4th Chelsea
5th Tottenham
6th City
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We will have to go very well to finish ahead of City, they are the main rivals. 6th is an insane prediction.

Liverpool simply haven't got the squad, however well the ultra pressing will obliterate teams in 15-20min spells.
You can't overstate how weak Arsenal's team were at the weekend.They won't put out as weak a team again this season in the league
 
Treble said:
I think that we are slight favourites but at the same time we lack a bit of pace and intensity in our first XI. A team with Carrick, Mata, Rooney, and Zlatan won't play with much intensity and pace. Martial and Shaw may be not enough for quicker football.
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People love to use the lack pace business! We have 2 very fast fullbacks, and 2 very fast wingers when Mik gets up to speed. Pogba isn't exactly slow either, and Ibra is quicker than you'd think as well. Rashford is there too.

We're as well stocked for pace as we have been for years.
 
Oneunited26 said:
Do they? lets look at the defence, jose think will strengthen the defence to rack up our numbers, look at the keeper situation at both united and city, pep's droped his no1 almost like the VG mentality in how he sees certain things, pep seems obsessed with things that are needed to be obsessed with. With jose like a few his teams, he has inherited the best keeper in the PL in DDG, he is joint best or just behind manuel neuer has the best keeper. I think united's options have improved in midfeld and attack. Jose has plan A and B, he can play rashford has a no9, drop rooney or zlaten, he could play pogba behind the frontman or put him in a 2 man pivot in CM, jose's more simple less philosephy defiantly works for this squad he is more flexible and less VG in his approach. Our only doubt is how our CM options pan out, if fellaini, herrera, morgan and carrick can all dove tail with pogba, but the key thing united have? we seem to have the old Jose Mourinho back to his best, is it early days? yes, but the fact we have a much settled no1, for me could be a huge factor on this PL title race, if the team continues to respond to what Jose Mourinho asks of them, we all know Jose Mourinho teams are terrifying when they become frustratingly consistent and officiant to rival teams, still Jose Mourinho's 2004/06 chelsea teams give me nightmares on what that team was able to do week in week out.

The key thing for us, we have a top manager in Jose Mourinho, a top GK in DDG, top CB in smalling, top CM in pogba, and a top CF in zlaten, these 5 options are crucial if we want to win this PL. Now if Pogba really does do what zlaten and bailly have done early on and build on that, we will be up there. Now like I say, if fellaini herrera, morgan and carrick all do their jobs jose asks from them, we have one hell of a chance. Everyone talks about our star names, those 4 CM options really will defy what we do week in week out
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Yes that's pretty spot on

I think in De Bruyne behind Aguero, Silva to the left and Sterling/Sane right City could potentially have a more functional attacking unit though - depending on what Pep does with them and how Jose uses our players - not overjoyed with the lineup at weekend

I'm just a little concerned about the teams Jose has put out so far.....you highlight the points very well on Rashford etc but Jose needs to be prepared to make those tough decisions on Rooney - I was shocked he played Mata right once again at the weekend

we were poor in that first half and for long periods against Leicester as well they were very LVG performances - why not play Mhikitaryan? Martial a short break?

we are going to challenge, make no mistake......I just hope the small decisions like potentially keeping a misfiring Rooney in the team don't cost us vital points at different parts of the season
 
buckooo1978 said:
Yes that's pretty spot on

I think in De Bruyne behind Aguero, Silva to the left and Sterling/Sane right City could potentially have a more functional attacking unit though - depending on what Pep does with them and how Jose uses our players - not overjoyed with the lineup at weekend

I'm just a little concerned about the teams Jose has put out so far.....you highlight the points very well on Rashford etc but Jose needs to be prepared to make those tough decisions on Rooney - I was shocked he played Mata right once again at the weekend

we were poor in that first half and for long periods against Leicester as well they were very LVG performances - why not play Mhikitaryan? Martial a short break?

we are going to challenge, make no mistake......I just hope the small decisions like potentially keeping a misfiring Rooney in the team don't cost us vital points at different parts of the season
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Were city anything special? where Pep is busy alienating his no1 keeper this late into the season, and the keeper he does want how do we know how that will play out. liverpool who are tactically a mess who cannot calm a game down and look to eat the minutes down. Lets look at our situation, we literally talking about a Mourinho still recovering from the ruins of his second chelsea spell, he knows its has big for him has united, look at MUFC still rebuilding their reputation from the ruins of the moyes era, and the less worse spell under VG, so you got 2 forces in Mourinho and united still repairing their ruins of a once force of nature.

This is where Mourinho may have made another smart move, he wants goals in the team, so instead of alienating mata and rooney, he has brought the group closer together and said we need goals from everyone. Look at mata and rooney, they both score building their confidence, and there is what I think Mourinho is trying to put across, so there is that goal threat from loads of players. Fellaini, pogba, mata, martial, lingard, mhik, memphis, rooney, zlaten and rashford he is banking on these players to all chip in with the goals we need to win the trophy's
 
Oneunited26 said:
Were city anything special? where Pep is busy alienating his no1 keeper this late into the season, and the keeper he does want how do we know how that will play out. liverpool who are tactically a mess who cannot calm a game down and look to eat the minutes down. Lets look at our situation, we literally talking about a Mourinho still recovering from the ruins of his second chelsea spell, he knows its has big for him has united, look at MUFC still rebuilding their reputation from the ruins of the moyes era, and the less worse spell under VG, so you got 2 forces in Mourinho and united still repairing their ruins of a once force of nature.

This is where Mourinho may have made another smart move, he wants goals in the team, so instead of alienating mata and rooney, he has brought the group closer together and said we need goals from everyone. Look at mata and rooney, they both score building their confidence, and there is what I think Mourinho is trying to put across, so there is that goal threat from loads of players. Fellaini, pogba, mata, martial, lingard, mhik, memphis, rooney, zlaten and rashford he is banking on these players to all chip in with the goals we need to win the trophy's
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no City weren't anything special....thats why I feel that Pep might hinder them in some ways

as for us....I don't think it's a question of confidence but of pace, fluidity and balance - if he gets the balance right we will do great
 
kafta said:
If we can start with a couple of more wins, and build up early momentum the way Jose's teams usually do, i could see us being difficult to catch.
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It's worth noting Mourinho has never chased a title down (as far as I can remember?). He's basically lead the league table the whole season in all his title wins.

Number32 said:
Yes he's outstanding at two well built clubs who swept the titles with ease before he took over.
City is not Bayern or Barca, they need to rebuild the winning team and compete with 4-5 teams to the title race, which Guardiola has never experience before.
So if you talk about his success in spain and germany, he isn't overrated.. but we talk about experts who thinks he has delivered his philosophy in PL to win the title this season, that's overated.
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You're literally just making stuff up. Barca were miles away from the title in the 2 years prior to Pep's arrival.
 
JinnerJamie said:
The only thing I suspect the majority of the pundits are guilty of is that they suddenly expect Barcelona cira 2009 -2012 to turn up and tear the league a new one.
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As LVG proved, possession football is not necessarily the best way to play in the EPL.
It will be interesting to see how Pep's version of possession football fairs in the EPL.
 
sunama said:
As LVG proved, possession football is not necessarily the best way to play in the EPL.
It will be interesting to see how Pep's version of possession football fairs in the EPL.
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He's a considerably better manager than LVG (primarily due to not being completely batshit crazy). He'll do well. Quite possibly very well. I think, inevitably although maybe not this season, it'll be Mourinho vs. Guardiola again, and I'm fine with that as long as we come to on top more often than not.

Tediously this'll result in endless comparisons of style, similar to the terribly dull Arsenal vs. UTD style debates of the late 90s and early 00s. I like direct, structured and pragmatic counter attacking football and I suspect Jose suits me as a consequence, but I'm already seeing a lot of our (mainly younger) fans pretending that they haven't spent the last decade suggesting that Tiki Taka is the only beautiful style and the bizarre tendency to attribute moral superiority and purity to a football ideology is already beginning to take hold in the city fanbase. The media will follow soon.

Sigh.
 
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Dominos said:
You're literally just making stuff up. Barca were miles away from the title in the 2 years prior to Pep's arrival.
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So how many change that he made in 2008 from their Barca 2006 successful years then? Nothing but kick Ronaldinho out, Even he was working with Ridjkaard's coaching staff.
2007: same points with Real, they lost because H2H rule. Even they could sealed the titel 3 weeks before, but ruined by their over confidence to win everything that year.
2008: Ridjkard was lost the dressing room at the end of the season, he just didn't gave 100% just like Guardiola's last seaason at Barca.

Guardiola's arrival was in Ridjkaard era in 2007, he was Barcelona B manager. So if you literally think 2007-2008 was 2 years prior to his arrival, you are miles away from saying the truth.
 
Number32 said:
So how many change that he made in 2008 from their Barca 2006 successful years then? Nothing but kick Ronaldinho out, Even he was working with Ridjkaard's coaching staff.
2007: same points with Real, they lost because H2H rule. Even they could sealed the titel 3 weeks before, but ruined by their over confidence to win everything that year.
2008: Ridjkard was lost the dressing room at the end of the season, he just didn't gave 100% just like Guardiola's last seaason at Barca.

Guardiola's arrival was in Ridjkaard era in 2007, he was Barcelona B manager. So if you literally think 2007-2008 was 2 years prior to his arrival, you are miles away from saying the truth.
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He took over the first team after not winning the league for 2 years then.

Pique, Pedro, Alves and Busquets for example were Pep introductions to the first team. Going from not winning the league for 2 years to having his team talked about as the best club side ever was an "easy task" according to this forum.
 
Dominos said:
It's worth noting Mourinho has never chased a title down (as far as I can remember?). He's basically lead the league table the whole season in all his title wins.


You're literally just making stuff up. Barca were miles away from the title in the 2 years prior to Pep's arrival.
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I don't know what pep done to messi from a physical stand point, because he went from an injury prone talented forward that you could say was at times overrated to how people were rating him between 2005-08, to maybe the greatest club player of his generation from 2008 to present.
 
I don't think the physical side of his game plays into it much.
 
Nikhil said:
I think Leicester will finish 5th. Have no idea of how the top 4 will look like at this point.
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Arsenal certainly won't be in it. No top 4 trophy for them this year I'm afraid! Cue the Wenger Out uprising as they finish below Spurs and Chelsea.
 
jelaiho said:
I reckon Liverpool are right in it especially without European football and Klopp having a full pre season with the team gives them an advantage.

1st United
2nd Liverpool
3rd Arsenal
4th Chelsea
5th Tottenham
6th City
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Lol Liverpool 2nd? Have you seen their defence?
Lol City 6th. Crazy talk. They're the favourites. Top 2 with us, comfortably.
 
Oneunited26 said:
I don't know what pep done to messi from a physical stand point, because he went from an injury prone talented forward that you could say was at times overrated to how people were rating him between 2005-08, to maybe the greatest club player of his generation from 2008 to present.
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He was a 20 year old, but he wasn't overrated then. Even then everyone knew he was up there with the very best players in the world. Was in the top 3 for the ballon d'or as well in 2007. Also Barca then just didn't have consistency but were still the most talented team in the world. People make it sound like Pep took over a bunch of chumps. We parked the bus and counter attacked barca with one of United's best ever sides and were still very lucky to get the win in the end in those semi's, and ended up winning the CL. Miles off the title of course because of no consistency and injury problems, but the main thing Pep seems to bring in everywhere is consistency in the teams performance.
 
Pretty sure its going to be between us, Citeh and the plastics for the title. Chelsea have a huge advantage in the fact that they are not playing european football. I honestly wish to see the second string players start in the EL, it should not be a priority for us and I think Jose sees it the same way. I think City's squad is a shade above ours but it'll be close (hopefully) I cant fecking wait until they come to Old Trafford :devil:
 
Liverpool are unlikely to compete for the title. Can't see a team featuring Henderson and Lallana and having a shaky defence doing enough to compete with us and Citeh. Still early days but losing from Burnley speaks a lot. Thought they were better than that.

Chelsea are the dark horse. They do not create enoug chances in the first games but maybe things will get better if Fabregas shows a good form. His assistance yesterday was amaizing.
 
United and City top two imo. Chelsea are dark horses but should be third minimum (depends on transfer window - could change everything but these three teams look the best to me).

Tottenham, Arsenal and Liverpool to battle it out for 4th but I think Everton and the Hammers will outdo one of these sides. Spurs look solid but Arsenal and Liverpool look flaky and inconsistent.
 
Like always, the team that can get the most points from the bottom 14 teams will win the title. City and Liverpool look vulnerable at the back. The way they setup the team with a 4141 formation with only one proper CM will be risky as they won't be able to defend counter attacks properly. Will be interesting to see how they perform against some of the better midtable teams.

Chelsea on the other hand look a little too defensive in their setup. They play with 2 defensive midfielders and a defensive full back in Azpelicueta. They have been lucky so far with Costa escaping both games from being redcarded. Hazard will have to be at his best for them to get anywhere close to the title.

Tottenham and Arsenal have a good record against the lower teams but I think they won't be able to replicate last year's performance. Leicester will also struggle to get anywhere close to last year's level.

In my opinion, United seem to have the best system to score maximum points against the smaller teams. We have 2 attacking full backs, one top CF, one world class CM who can drive the team forward. The physicality of our team will also be a plus in the close games.

I'm expecting the top 6 to be:
United
City
Chelsea
Tottenham
Arsenal
Liverpool
 
jelaiho said:
I reckon Liverpool are right in it especially without European football and Klopp having a full pre season with the team gives them an advantage.

1st United
2nd Liverpool
3rd Arsenal
4th Chelsea
5th Tottenham
6th City
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Oh dear. :lol:
 
I say us and City to go all the way. Mourinho's experience in the premier league will help us edge it. Maybe I'm being too kind on City though as the cracks might appear while the months go on. We have just looked very solid with so much more still to come. The derby in a few weeks will tell us a lot. Chelsea will be right up there with Spurs alongside them. While Arsenal and Liverpool concede their way to 5th & 6th
 
It's going to be united and city all the way I think.

The rest will be too inconsistent arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool will all drop silly points and I think us and city will break away at somepoint. To the stage where 1st and 2nd will be 10+ points clear of 3rd.
 
At this stage I'd say City to win it, I actually think Arsenal will push them close and possibly Chelsea(though defensively they look thin)
Our part in the title race I think depends on wether Mourinho drops Rooney or not. His inclusion in the team is enough to set us back 7-10 points in vital games due to his lack of quality and the disruption he'll cause in midfield.
Liverpool will blow hot and cold, Spurs I'm not sure about but atm I think they'll be the two pushing us for 4th.
 
Chelsea will definitely get in the top 3.

They seem to have got their habit of ugly winning back. Ugly, hard to watch, jammy, controversial, late wins. It's in their DNA.
 
City
United
Arsenal
Chelsea
If we get another pacy skillful attacker, then I can see us winning it.
As it is, city have too much firepower imo.
 
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