2012 Ryder Cup

The yanks have been mercurial this evening. Watson and Simpson played two of the best rounds I've ever seen. Bradley and Mickleson similar.

Colsaerts has been brilliant though. He's not only carried Westwood, but Europe. Cannot believe how Westwood teed off first though. Utterly baffled, and it looks like it's going to cost them half a point.

Kaymer been as predicted. Shame Rose hasn't been able to pull through, although I did expect Johnson and Kuchar to beat them
 
Europe can still make this session 2-2. It's going to be an exciting end to the day.
 
I don't normally bother with golf, but always go out my way to watch a bit of the Ryder Cup. USA were awesome from what I saw tonight. Couldn't believe some of the shots they were pulling off. Europe weren't on the same level but McDowell and Colsaerts had a couple of great attempts that were unlucky not to go in.
 
Name Changed said:
Why, what's the story with Donald? He comes off pretty well in interviews, etc and seems fairly likeable. What am I missing?
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Smug, plays for the money and rarely goes all out for the win is what I hear.

I personally despise both him and Westwood because they don't do the game much good. Donald is just a glorified percentage player who rarely goes for a big shot, and Westwood is massively out of shape and bottles majors.

As regards tonight, Olazabal got it completely wrong. Poulter should have been playing, as should Molinari. Hansen and Lawrie aren't good enough for this standard of golf, and Martin Kaymer has been awful for a long time. The problem with Europe is that there's a massive drop off between the top players and the bottom ones, whereas the US are more solid throughout the team. We need to show some common sense and play McDowell with a weaker player, and do the same with McIlroy. It's nice for them to be together as mates, but it's not best for the team.
 
For all intents and purposes we've already lost another one. Westwood and Donald are being simply brushed aside right now.

America have gone 4 up after 7 as i type this.
 
It looks like this year's cup will be over a day early.
 
We could have a point in the bag early on for once. Just gone 4 up.

A 10-6 deficit looks the best we can achieve at this moment.
 
I said before the weekend that McIlroy would be key if we were to retain it. He's underperformed, and as a result, we'll lose it. Need your big players to perform, and he (they) hasn't. If he'd won the two he'd lost we'd be 7-6 down with a change in momentum.
 
Haven't really been following lately. Went to Oakland Hills one day in 2004, don't remember much of it.


P.S

moran.jpg
 
The key to winning a Ryder Cup is having a captain who picks the right groups. Having McIlroy and McDowell losing together twice is just idiocy. Olazabal will never be captain again - he's been a complete disaster. He's making a goodish team turn into one of the worst we've ever had.
 
I don't want to go on a moan, but Paul Lawrie should be nowhere near a Ryder Cup team. We need to have 12 picks and ensure that you can't just plod along on the massively inferior European Tour and qualify for an event that you're not good enough to play in.

Also, the course is a joke. It's not a golf course if there's no proper hazards. You can go 70 yards off the fairway and be in perfect shape to approach the pin. Disgrace. It's a glorified pitch and putt. You stick the greens high on the stint-meter and you let the Americans win. It's not particularly sporting. The amount of putts going in from 30 feet is testament to how the greens aren't hard enough. It's not a proper course, which is a shame because when the US Open has been held there, it's been a proper test of golf.
 
How many of the Europeans have actually turned up with soem consistent match winning golf? Two, three at most?

And we have some experienced campaigners out there too. Odd.

Which isn't to take anything away from people like Bradley, Simpson and Mickelson over the last two days, just on another level.
 
alastair said:
I don't want to go on a moan, but Paul Lawrie should be nowhere near a Ryder Cup team. We need to have 12 picks and ensure that you can't just plod along on the massively inferior European Tour and qualify for an event that you're not good enough to play in.

Also, the course is a joke. It's not a golf course if there's no proper hazards. You can go 70 yards off the fairway and be in perfect shape to approach the pin. Disgrace. It's a glorified pitch and putt. You stick the greens high on the stint-meter and you let the Americans win. It's not particularly sporting. The amount of putts going in from 30 feet is testament to how the greens aren't hard enough. It's not a proper course, which is a shame because when the US Open has been held there, it's been a proper test of golf.
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Agree with most of that post, but how do you stop the likes of Lawrie getting there? Where did he qualify? Personally I'd prefer at least four wildcards, that way the likes of Lawrie can still get in, but only if the captain does think they're good enough. Did Olazabel choose to only have two wildcards? Surely Harrington and perhaps even Casey would've been better than Lawrie/Hanson/Kaymer?

I don't like how the course is set up, but that's home advantage for you, what can you do?
 
Liam147 said:
I don't like how the course is set up, but that's home advantage for you, what can you do?
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One European Tour official apparently told somebody at the BEEB that we've got to go for rough like a jungle in 2014. Or a hazard rich environment let's say.
 
Liam147 said:
Agree with most of that post, but how do you stop the likes of Lawrie getting there? Where did he qualify? Personally I'd prefer at least four wildcards, that way the likes of Lawrie can still get in, but only if the captain does think they're good enough. Did Olazabel choose to only have two wildcards? Surely Harrington and perhaps even Casey would've been better than Lawrie/Hanson/Kaymer?

I don't like how the course is set up, but that's home advantage for you, what can you do?
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I'd just appoint a captain and let him choose all of the players. Lawrie won the Scottish Open and it gave him billions of points. Part of the problem is that the European Tour try and protect themselves by bigging up their own players, but the reality is that it's harder to do well in the US than it is over here. Martin Laird never had a look-in, but he's clearly a much better player than Lawrie right now. Kaymer has been clinging onto a place having not even finished top ten this season.

I get why Davis Love III has done the course as it is, but you have to have a fair test otherwise it's not in the true spirit. A golf course with no rough is too far. It's one thing lengthening holes if you've got big hitters, but you can't just create a golf course without one of the fundamentals.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
One European Tour official apparently told somebody at the BEEB that we've got to go for rough like a jungle in 2014. Or a hazard rich environment let's say.
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Yeah, and why not? They play to their strengths, we play to ours.

Still hoping for a 10-6 outcome here...

By the way, Al, is there not some regulation dictating that you can only have so many captain's picks?
 
From a Faldo pick to Ryder Cup reliability. Well and self belief, and Poulter has never been short of that. I'd fancy him to get a major ahead of Rose, on a par with Donald.

10-6 is doable, just.

Olazabal has to front load the singles on Sunday and hope for the best.
 
Awesome from Poulter- five straight birdies and you could see what it meant to him.

:lol:Still struggle to bring myself to chant 'Europe' though...
 
Team Europe would be well out of it if it wasn't for Poulter, he is one of the best Ryder Cup players I have seen.
 
alastair said:
Also, the course is a joke. It's not a golf course if there's no proper hazards. You can go 70 yards off the fairway and be in perfect shape to approach the pin. Disgrace. It's a glorified pitch and putt. You stick the greens high on the stint-meter and you let the Americans win. It's not particularly sporting. The amount of putts going in from 30 feet is testament to how the greens aren't hard enough. It's not a proper course, which is a shame because when the US Open has been held there, it's been a proper test of golf.
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It's still the same for both teams though surely.
 
Jippy said:
It's still the same for both teams though surely.
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Not really. Imagine if you could change the dimensions/conditions of a snooker table, and all the Americans were brilliant long potters, but had an iffy short game, whereas we weren't great potters, but could play excellent safety, and this was pretty much the case throughout both teams. Now imagine they make the cushions ultra-responsive, the table much bigger, and the pockets a bit smaller.

They're playing to their strengths, although I don't really see much wrong with that - we'll do the same in two years.

Also, Ian Poulter - what a man. You do not see that in golf.
 
Fair enough in a way, but both teams have a lot of players able to deal with tough courses and surely if the set-up is that 'easy' the Europeans would find it a stroll compared to some of the courses they have to face back home.

Must admit, I am a relatively new convert to golf- only really got into watching it over the past two or so years so would not profess to be especially knowledgeable about it.
 
Jippy said:
Fair enough in a way, but both teams have a lot of players able to deal with tough courses and surely if the set-up is that 'easy' the Europeans would find it a stroll compared to some of the courses they have to face back home.

Must admit, I am a relatively new convert to golf- only really got into watching it over the past two or so years so would not profess to be especially knowledgeable about it.
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Well, look at the big hitters on our team:
McIlroy
Colsaerts

Then the ones on the American team:
Woods
Watson
Johnson
Mickleson

Mickelson, and more traditionally, Woods, are poor drivers. Woods' driving this weekend hasn't been much out of the ordinary, he just has an arsenal of exceptional recovery shots, which he hasn't needed to use, because the rough hasn't punished them properly.

You have to credit the Americans' putting, because it's simply been better than ours. The difference is, they wouldn't have had these opportunities if they'd played on a 'proper' course.
 
What USA are doing is pretty much what Stoke are doing, and I'm sure Stoke would make their pitch even smaller if they were allowed to.
 
Wowi said:
What USA are doing is pretty much what Stoke are doing, and I'm sure Stoke would make their pitch even smaller if they were allowed to.
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Yeh but this season they were told to make it regulation size, so it was clear the general consensus was that a law was being broken somewhere. I'm all for home advantage through the supporters but I reckon a lot of club pros in this country could go over there and shoot in the sixties. You'd just lay into it on every tee because you know that wherever you hit it you'll be fine.

Europe should be playing a lot better than they are, but I don't particularly like watching competitions where there isn't a bogey to be made anywhere on the course.
 
So its 10-6 with 12 points to play for.

So Europe needs to win 8 points out of 12 to tie and retain the trophy.

1703 BST: Watson v Donald

1714: Simpson v Poulter

1725: Bradley v McIlroy

1736: Mickelson v Rose

1747: Snedeker v Lawrie

1758: D Johnson v Colsaerts

1809: Z Johnson v McDowell

1820: Furyk v Garcia

1831: Dufner v Hanson

1842: Kuchar v Westwood

1853: Stricker v Kaymer

1904: Woods v Molinari
 
thegregster said:
So its 10-6 with 12 points to play for.

So Europe needs to win 8 points out of 12 to tie and retain the trophy.

1703 BST: Watson v Donald

1714: Simpson v Poulter

1725: Bradley v McIlroy

1736: Mickelson v Rose

1747: Snedeker v Lawrie

1758: D Johnson v Colsaerts

1809: Z Johnson v McDowell

1820: Furyk v Garcia

1831: Dufner v Hanson

1842: Kuchar v Westwood

1853: Stricker v Kaymer

1904: Woods v Molinari
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Realistically I think this is a fair prediction.

For me, they have three gimmes there, and it's hugely important to win the ones I can't call; they could go either way. We'd also need to turn over one or even two of what I have down as American wins in Westwood and Rose.

But for me, they're already on 13 points, needing one win and one half out of the other nine, which really shows how difficult the task is.
 
thegregster said:
So its 10-6 with 12 points to play for.

So Europe needs to win 8 points out of 12 to tie and retain the trophy.

1703 BST: Watson v Donald

1714: Simpson v Poulter

1725: Bradley v McIlroy

1736: Mickelson v Rose

1747: Snedeker v Lawrie

1758: D Johnson v Colsaerts

1809: Z Johnson v McDowell

1820: Furyk v Garcia

1831: Dufner v Hanson

1842: Kuchar v Westwood

1853: Stricker v Kaymer

1904: Woods v Molinari
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I think we can have a reasonable degree of confidence about the likelihood of those wins, after that it's whether we see a dramatic turnaround and ability to cope with the occasion.

Europe must create some scoreboard pressure early on and as a body, patches of 1 ups surely won't cut the mustard.

I have a feeling Rose could be the first whole point conceded, assuming McIlroy gets at least a half.
 
alastair said:
Johnson and Dufner are two big bottlers too. It's a shame Adam Scott isn't American.
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Hansen isn't a happy camper right now by all accounts [underused], if he can channel than anger out on the golf course that could be another.
 
I do get the impression a lot of badly written autobiographies are going to slaughter the way this Ryder Cup team has been run. Hansen is spitting venom at the moment.
 
alastair said:
I do get the impression a lot of badly written autobiographies are going to slaughter the way this Ryder Cup team has been run. Hansen is spitting venom at the moment.
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Why though?

For a start, I'm not sure the pairings were that bad. Personally I'd question whether or not Poulter could play all four matches. McIlroy did, and offered less. Possibly putting Lawrie and Hanson together for fourballs was a mistake.

I'm not sure what Hanson has to complain about either. He isn't as good as a lot of other players.
 
Liam147 said:
Why though?

For a start, I'm not sure the pairings were that bad. Personally I'd question whether or not Poulter could play all four matches. McIlroy did, and offered less. Possibly putting Lawrie and Hanson together for fourballs was a mistake.

I'm not sure what Hanson has to complain about either. He isn't as good as a lot of other players.
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He's a lot better than Lawrie.

The pairings were quite poor. He worked out that Donald and Westwood were both in poor form, but he picked them together. Picking them at all was ludicrous but together was just asking for a heavy defeat. He has some weaker players in this team but he doesn't support them. Hansen and Lawrie together was a thrown point.

He should have put McDowell with Lawrie and McIlroy with Hansen. Picking your best players together is a waste of resources, especially when it's hardly nailed on they'll win anyway. It's been a shambles. Resting Poulter for a session wasn't particularly sensible when we were struggling.

It's difficult to get it completely right, but I don't think any single group has been a good use of resources. Lawrie and Colsaerts together yesterday had basically no experience between them. It's madness.
 
It's not just the selection of the teams though. Also the player's performances themselves are below standard.

The only two players that have been standing out so far for me are Colsaerts (who saved Europe on the first day despite a very bad Westwood) and of course Poulter, who has been great throughout the last two days.
And those were two wildcard players in this team. If your top players (McIlroy, Rose, Westwood, etc) are playing like crap while the Americans are playing more than ok, you can pair them the way you want, you'll still lose.
 
McIlroy has overslept or something, just arrived at Medinah 10 minutes before his tee time in a police escort. :lol:
 
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