I don't understand what people aren't getting about this bit.They are both obviously better players but we aren’t really in a position financially or success wise to buy them.
Napoli want to charge a bomb? Doesn’t he have a release clause?Osimhen seems to be going to Saudi as Napoli still want to charge a bomb and Gyokeres won’t be coming to United when there are other clubs offering better chances at success.
They are both obviously better players but we aren’t really in a position financially or success wise to buy them.
Look at it this way. Bruno is our play maker. In the systems we have played he consistently 'creates play" by mostly supplying balls to the wingers/wideforwards who are in turn supposed to play in the cf. What happens instead? The wide players have tended to cut in to shoot to score themselves.Different ways to look at it. For me the biggest thing a striker brings is a target to actually receive passes and chances. They know where to move, where to stand, they have the ability to make chances for themselves and others and keep opposition defences on their toes. I am firmly in the belief that the reason we create feck all, is because our strikers are absolutely horrendous. Bruno is one of the most creative players in the world, has been for years. You can't tell me that we don't have players to supply chances. Rashford 2 years ago had an on-year and scored 30 goals across all competitions. Strikers will get the chances if they are good enough to receive the chances. Think it's been shown for ages that it's pretty much never a case of a top striker is just being held back by supply not feeding that player any chances to the point that they are literally amongst the worst players in the league (or even Europe) at getting shots off.
You put Osimhen in our team, and he'll score over 20 goals in all competitions next season. You keep Hojlund as our main CF, and he's gonna remain as a ~10 goal striker. That's just his level, getting some other creators won't change that much for him.
I don't like him, not the right fit we should be going for.
His hold up play is quite obviously better ans he has much better balance, but I also don’t think he is the right signing at 45m.He's honestly no better than Hojlund currently, he's in better form due to the fact that he plays for a team that score the majority of their goals on the counter which gives him more space. Hojlund could do the same, neither are able to play the 9 to a high level currently for a team dominating possession unfortunately. That's where you need an Osimhen/ Gyokeres/ Boniface/ Isak/ Schick etc
I personally haven't seen evidence of that as we are comparing a really out of form Hojlund with zero confidence against a lad with no expectation full of confidence. You can see more than enough examples in the past where Hojlund is capable but you must have had it yourself when in bad form, everything goes from bad to worse, he isn't a bad player but he also was never ready to bear the burden of an underperforming top teams main goalscorer at his age and experience.His hold up play is quite obviously better ans he has much better balance, but I also don’t think he is the right signing at 45m.
I’ve not had exactly that, but I’ve had the experience of going from worst to worse, so I kinda know what you’re talking about.I personally haven't seen evidence of that as we are comparing a really out of form Hojlund with zero confidence against a lad with no expectation full of confidence. You can see more than enough examples in the past where Hojlund is capable but you must have had it yourself when in bad form, everything goes from bad to worse, he isn't a bad player but he also was never ready to bear the burden of an underperforming top teams main goalscorer at his age and experience.
Hojlund had periods of good confidence last season and those parts of his game were still worse than Delaps this seasonI personally haven't seen evidence of that as we are comparing a really out of form Hojlund with zero confidence against a lad with no expectation full of confidence. You can see more than enough examples in the past where Hojlund is capable but you must have had it yourself when in bad form, everything goes from bad to worse, he isn't a bad player but he also was never ready to bear the burden of an underperforming top teams main goalscorer at his age and experience.
He's honestly no better than Hojlund currently, he's in better form due to the fact that he plays for a team that score the majority of their goals on the counter which gives him more space. Hojlund could do the same, neither are able to play the 9 to a high level currently for a team dominating possession unfortunately. That's where you need an Osimhen/ Gyokeres/ Boniface/ Isak/ Schick etc
His hold up and link up play are on a different planet to Hojlund who's never even shown a slimmer of improvement in, he's also far more physically dominant. In terms of Goal output he's outperforming Hojlund in a worse side.He's honestly no better than Hojlund currently, he's in better form due to the fact that he plays for a team that score the majority of their goals on the counter which gives him more space. Hojlund could do the same, neither are able to play the 9 to a high level currently for a team dominating possession unfortunately. That's where you need an Osimhen/ Gyokeres/ Boniface/ Isak/ Schick etc
Worse attacking side is maybe debatable but I agree on the restHis hold up and link up play are on a different planet to Hojlund who's never even shown a slimmer of improvement in, he's also far more physically dominant. In terms of Goal output he's outperforming Hojlund in a worse side.
I don't understand what people aren't getting about this bit.
Re-sale value is paramount here, there will be a lot of chances taken on younger talent that you can sign on a 5 year deal with low wages, then if they haven't worked out after 24months, recoup your FFP position or better. That is our new reality while we are paying for a stadium and for the mistakes of the last 12 years.
If we can't get Osimhen, I wouldn’t be against just Delap coming in to rotate with Hojlund. I think he ahead of Hojlund by at least a couple of years. His play style actually bears similarities with Gyokeres, with that punishing ball carrying style. I think he's a 20 league goals a season man.
Found data to back up my Gyokeres similarity claim :
Or just get a proper midfielder and play Bruno at the 10. The best 10s in our squad atm is Bruno and Amad. Unfortunately we’re forced to play Bruno in midfield because we’ve no one better and Amad is injured.Look at it this way. Bruno is our play maker. In the systems we have played he consistently 'creates play" by mostly supplying balls to the wingers/wideforwards who are in turn supposed to play in the cf. What happens instead? The wide players have tended to cut in to shoot to score themselves.
Entirely ignoring the center striker unless he is in position to play them into a better shooting or scoring postion. 8/10 times. Rashford in his 30 goal year had Weghorst drawing all the center back attention playing almost as an extra attacking midfielder. So all Rashford had to do was play the ball off him or go himself. It wasn't by coincidence that the following season with an actual center forward operating in the box, his out put fell off a cliff because the onus was on him to create for the cf. Rather than the other way round.
Garnacho vs Forrest was an excellent example of this. We had a counter attack late on in which if his actual intention was to play in Rasmus, the defender had zero chance of blocking his ball. Instead he attempted a shot. So the ball was deflected away from Rasmus' path.
Currently United as a team do not consistently supply their center forward. Thanks to the 3-4-3 that puts that responsibility chiefly on the wide attackers, then the wingbacks. Whilst the center midfield conducts/creates play.
In our previous 4-2-3-1 its not by mistake a Rasmus scored more last season or in general because he had Bruno in behind him able to pick him out. However since Amorim took over and Bruno has moved deeper the supply has just got worse and worse. Pilling untold pressure on the precious few opportunities he or Zirkzee gets in the box.
I don't care if you put Kane, Gyokeres or Osimhen instead of our current lot. At most they'd have 10 -12 league goals. Why? ONLY 9 clear cut chances have been missed by our cfs. Meaning just 16% of all big chances we create ends up at our strikers feet! Unless you are playing prime Messi or R9 as your lead cf, who can consistently create goals for themselves all by their lonesome. There is literally NO cf who relies on supply who would morph into a 20 goal a season cf in a team that supply's our 9 as poorly as we do. IMHO that's a statistical impossibility.
Our first priority should be to improve the level of creativity in the 10 positions when a Bruno is deeper. THEN we can think of upgrading our cfs
He's honestly no better than Hojlund currently, he's in better form due to the fact that he plays for a team that score the majority of their goals on the counter which gives him more space. Hojlund could do the same, neither are able to play the 9 to a high level currently for a team dominating possession unfortunately. That's where you need an Osimhen/ Gyokeres/ Boniface/ Isak/ Schick etc
I thought he looked significantly better than both of our strikers when we played Ipswich earlier this season. He looks like the player Hojlund is trying to be, and the one we thought he would be when we signed him. He actually seems to be a physical handful for defenders rather than ending up on his arse every time.
I don’t think we would realistically be able to afford, or be the first choice, for any of the strikers you have provided as an alternative.
I get that Delap’s not the perfect choice, but he seems likely to be an improvement, is affordable, and seems likely to be up for joining.
Keeping our powder dry, saving the big bucks for when a true United no.9 becomes available, seems like a better option than spunking lots of cash in a sellers market for a sub prime striker.
In theory yeah, and if I had to pick I’d go Osimhen, Gyokeres, Delap in that order. But if the money isn’t there, then we might be forced to do the easier deal and go for Delap. His wages would probably be at least half of anything the other two would want.Imagine having all of Delap, Zirkzee and Hojlund and none of them hitting the mark. That's just much of muchness. With what we have is the likes of Osimhen and Gyokeres that will be obvious upgrades.
Yeah. This.In theory yeah, and if I had to pick I’d go Osimhen, Gyokeres, Delap in that order. But if the money isn’t there, then we might be forced to do the easier deal and go for Delap. His wages would probably be at least half of anything the other two would want.
But is the easier deal worth. Do we think he's going to become say a decent all rounder who consistently gives about 15 league goals because that should be the minimum.In theory yeah, and if I had to pick I’d go Osimhen, Gyokeres, Delap in that order. But if the money isn’t there, then we might be forced to do the easier deal and go for Delap. His wages would probably be at least half of anything the other two would want.
But is the easier deal worth. Do we think he's going to become say a decent all rounder who consistently gives about 15 league goals because that should be the minimum.
No idea. I can imagine the club weighing it up as a total package and thinking if Delap costs 45m all in (transfer fee, wages, agent fees) and Osimhen costs 85m all in, getting Delap leaves us money for a right wing back as well. Amorim might prefer to go down that route, I guess it depends what else he wants and how badly he wants it.But is the easier deal worth. Do we think he's going to become say a decent all rounder who consistently gives about 15 league goals because that should be the minimum.
25 should be the minimum imo. Even Hojlund contributed 16 last year which was nowhere near good enough to make a meaningful difference. Something similar to what Zlatan gave us (28 goals at age 35 ) should be closer to our target, and I sense that only Gyokeres, Osimhen, or Jonathan David would be capable of that.
15 in the league, such a player will get 25+ all competition.25 should be the minimum imo. Even Hojlund contributed 16 last year which was nowhere near good enough to make a meaningful difference. Something similar to what Zlatan gave us (28 goals at age 35 ) should be closer to our target, and I sense that only Gyokeres, Osimhen, or Jonathan David would be capable of that.
So we're basically Brighton except we won't sell our best players.No idea. I can imagine the club weighing it up as a total package and thinking if Delap costs 45m all in (transfer fee, wages, agent fees) and Osimhen costs 85m all in, getting Delap leaves us money for a right wing back as well. Amorim might prefer to go down that route, I guess it depends what else he wants and how badly he wants it.
By the sounds of it we’re in a state of sell to buy. So it literally could be a case of 2 players is better than 1.
Yes. Except Brighton might get into EuropeSo we're basically Brighton except we won't sell our best players.
i mean i get people thinking osimhen is the sure thing of the 3 choices, but definitely interesting to see such certainty with gyokeres. Looking at past liga portugal golden boot winners and the list really isnt that impressive. Could be a success, could be a flop, who knows. Almost feel like youd want to splurge the cash on Osimhen, or go with the potential of delap who at least has experience in the league. Gyo could be a mix of big money big risk.
If this is the idea Ineos put on Amorim's table and he bought it, he better be ready.Yes. Except Brighton might get into Europe
This is sense. People on here are really over estimating Gyokeres holding the cards. Many great goalscorers in that league have been hideous players so the teams better than us will not be as gung ho in getting him as people are making out. Certainly not if Isak kicks up a fuss
Look at it this way. Bruno is our play maker. In the systems we have played he consistently 'creates play" by mostly supplying balls to the wingers/wideforwards who are in turn supposed to play in the cf. What happens instead? The wide players have tended to cut in to shoot to score themselves.
Entirely ignoring the center striker unless he is in position to play them into a better shooting or scoring postion. 8/10 times. Rashford in his 30 goal year had Weghorst drawing all the center back attention playing almost as an extra attacking midfielder. So all Rashford had to do was play the ball off him or go himself. It wasn't by coincidence that the following season with an actual center forward operating in the box, his out put fell off a cliff because the onus was on him to create for the cf. Rather than the other way round.
Garnacho vs Forrest was an excellent example of this. We had a counter attack late on in which if his actual intention was to play in Rasmus, the defender had zero chance of blocking his ball. Instead he attempted a shot. So the ball was deflected away from Rasmus' path.
Currently United as a team do not consistently supply their center forward. Thanks to the 3-4-3 that puts that responsibility chiefly on the wide attackers, then the wingbacks. Whilst the center midfield conducts/creates play.
In our previous 4-2-3-1 its not by mistake a Rasmus scored more last season or in general because he had Bruno in behind him able to pick him out. However since Amorim took over and Bruno has moved deeper the supply has just got worse and worse. Pilling untold pressure on the precious few opportunities he or Zirkzee gets in the box.
I don't care if you put Kane, Gyokeres or Osimhen instead of our current lot. At most they'd have 10 -12 league goals. Why? ONLY 9 clear cut chances have been missed by our cfs. Meaning just 16% of all big chances we create ends up at our strikers feet! Unless you are playing prime Messi or R9 as your lead cf, who can consistently create goals for themselves all by their lonesome. There is literally NO cf who relies on supply who would morph into a 20 goal a season cf in a team that supply's our 9 as poorly as we do. IMHO that's a statistical impossibility.
Our first priority should be to improve the level of creativity in the 10 positions when a Bruno is deeper. THEN we can think of upgrading our cfs
Or just get a proper midfielder and play Bruno at the 10. The best 10s in our squad atm is Bruno and Amad. Unfortunately we’re forced to play Bruno in midfield because we’ve no one better and Amad is injured.
He wanted to leave, the owner wanted him to honor his contract, he threw his toys out the pram and somehow this proves your point that I was wrong about him being a problem. You're going to need to do that math for me.He left because the owner is a nut job who shunned him from the team after he wanted to leave. Osimhen was forced to go on loan to Turkey (later deadline day window) or spend the season playing no football
Exactly , choosing a striker who’s getting relegated to be our number 1 forward next season is tragic . How the standards have fallen. And he is only a little upgrade on Hojlund to be honestI think he is better than Hojlund but there is a huge chasm between Hojlund and what we should be aiming for as our number 1 striker.
