New Stadium | 100k Stadium to be built - design visualisation released

[Bright_Eyes]

No, I am on board with all of that, the whole rivalry / experience used to be what’s it all about. I used to go away in Europe about 10-12 years ago and some of the experiences were horrible / but also magical. Having bags of urine and coins thrown down from Milan fans to the bottom tier was both of things, it’s the true tribalism of football, but it was all part of it.

Unfortunately, I gave up on football being like that anymore, apart from some corners of Europe top tier football is just not like that.

I mean if you truly do find it magical to have bags of urine thrown on you by strangers you do you but I expect it's not for everyone.

 

[Red in STL]

I mean if you truly do find it magical to have bags of urine thrown on you by strangers you do you but I expect it's not for everyone.

It certainly wasn't magical back in the day in Scouseland when their choice was golf balls with 6" nails driven thru them

 

[spwd]

I genuinely did wonder if it might be some long term plan of Ineos to sell to Saudi, Qatar etc. after Sir Jim's throwaway comment in the G Nev interview.

What was that?

 

[downunder red]

Once Old Trafford is knocked down they should leave the pitch and turn it into a park for everyone to enjoy. They could still build around it.
I'm sure people would enjoy walking, playing, picnicking even spreading their ashes etc etc on the sacred turf.

 

[tenpoless]

to be played around that party area thingy - new signings being showcased doing keepie uppies with Brailsford clapping at them.

On a serious note, I love it actually.

 

[stevoc]

The roof looks large, lot of coverage anyway.

Besides most non football events will be in the summer months.

Yeah the opening looks pretty small relavive to the pitch.

I'm not a fan of retractable roofs, I grew up watching United have brilliant matches in the Champions League at Old Trafford where we always seemed to play better when it was raining.

 

[stevoc]

Once Old Trafford is knocked down they should leave the pitch and turn it into a park for everyone to enjoy. They could still build around it.
I'm sure people would enjoy walking, playing, picnicking even spreading their ashes etc etc on the sacred turf.

That would be amazing but I'm 99.9% certain it won't be happening as it's too much land for them not to develop into something. Probably a Fitness First and a Costa Coffee.

 

[Cessna]

Wonder if they thought about a way to cover the whole roof and decided against it. When it rains the wing backs will be nice and dry at least!

So the design is a ploy to keep the team playing wide!

 

[Toblerone92]

My wording can be quite clumsy and generalising at times.
So I hear you and i’m not looking down my nose or taking aim at you sir or any fans who don’t go who have their personal reasons for that. I wouldn’t discredit anyone who has work commitments or struggling financially and actually think the club needs to do more to help said fans out.

But I, like I’m sure you do too, know many who can go but don’t because they can’t be bothered or make up some pretty poor excuses. Their opinion holds no weight to me. Being a supporter is about making sacrifices I’m sure you’ve made some yourself as a Supporter.

I just want to ask you, for your opinion on this, if I may…
A chap I know does an 8 round trip every week and will do for dead rubber games on week nights and make up the time in work on other days. That dedication and loyalty is the heartbeat of the club. Now if you compare him to a fan who lives 20 minutes away who has a chance to go but never has. Do you value them as supporters the same?

Who is this fan who “lives 20 minutes away but never goes”? You’ve just made him/her up to provide a contrast to your mate who spends his life attending United games.

I don’t spend much time thinking about or placing “value” on how other people support the club and you shouldn’t either. Some people will be absolute fanatics and others will be casual supporters, what does it matter to me? The club is well supported - we sell out Old Trafford every week and have a raucous away support. Support United in whatever way works for you and spend less time worrying about how others choose to do so.

 

[Avero]

That would be amazing but I'm 99.9% certain it won't be happening as it's too much land for them not to develop into something. Probably a Fitness First and a Costa Coffee.

Looking at the video they published though, they have put in a football pitch outside the stadium, on the western side of the new stadium. You would think they could find a way to remove that and keep the Old Trafford pitch instead.

 

[klayton88]

The roof looks large, lot of coverage anyway.

Besides most non football events will be in the summer months.

OR you could put a roof on and have them every month. Just a thought. Have you experienced Manc weather? It can rain and be miserable even in the summer.

 

[stevoc]

Looking at the video they published though, they have put in a football pitch outside the stadium, on the western side of the new stadium. You would think they could find a way to remove that and keep the Old Trafford pitch instead.

They could but if the renders are accurate then it would mess with their ''Trident'' design with the road leading upto the new stadium.

I also find it amusing that they're calling it a trident, it's a Devil's pitchfork.

 

[Victorian values]

A couple of points I don't think have been considered on this thread, if you are digging down so the pitch is lower than the level of the Ship Canal, how will it drain?
Second point, I fully expect offices to be placed under the stands, some will be club office's, but others will be on a five, ten or twenty year lease, meaning year round footfall making use of the public transport network and more importantly, providing a regular "customer base" for the concessions in the "fanzones" if done correctly, it can have an area for families and kid friendly on matchday and for office staff Monday to Friday, with a larger area for Sean, Seamus, paddy and Eugene on their annual trip from Belfast or Dublin, while Wee Jimmy and Mental Davy from Salford will still go to Bishops or The Tavern
.
I don't think the regular season ticket prices, or SOME of the general admission tickets will increase much, as they will now that they need the working class locals to create the atmosphere the gin and tonic and the prosecco types paying a fortune in the corporate lounges want as part of the "matchday experience".
They will be expecting an extra 5,000+ corporate tickets to pay a significant amount of the build costs, and much more spend in the ground or club run concession stands (a variety of bars and fast food) and fans to get to the ground at 12:30 or one for a three o clock kick off rather than staying in Yates or the Lass o gowry etc

 

[giggs-beckham]

Can they make a vr vid so i can watch on the quest thing

 

[romufc]

The extra cost wouldn't be worth it TBH

exactly, Wembley has this and how many times has it been used?

 

[Adz_99]

They'll have to find a way to keep the Stretford end going in the new stadium. That's where all the atmosphere comes from and if they lose that then it could be a quiet stadium even with all the effort put in to acoustics.

Have safe standing areas too.

 

[Sandikan]

Being able to see the whole stadium from every part of the pitch sounds such a basic, but will be good.

For anyone who has ever sat in the back rows of the 2nd tier, and only being able to see about an inch above the other end crossbar!

Have never sat in the North 3, but can only imagine that's an even more surreal experience.

 

[stevoc]

Being able to see the whole stadium from every part of the pitch sounds such a basic, but will be good.

For anyone who has ever sat in the back rows of the 2nd tier, and only being able to see about an inch above the other end crossbar!

Have never sat in the North 3, but can only imagine that's an even more surreal experience.

It's not great I have to say.

 

[stevoc]

A couple of points I don't think have been considered on this thread, if you are digging down so the pitch is lower than the level of the Ship Canal, how will it drain?
Second point, I fully expect offices to be placed under the stands, some will be club office's, but others will be on a five, ten or twenty year lease, meaning year round footfall making use of the public transport network and more importantly, providing a regular "customer base" for the concessions in the "fanzones" if done correctly, it can have an area for families and kid friendly on matchday and for office staff Monday to Friday, with a larger area for Sean, Seamus, paddy and Eugene on their annual trip from Belfast or Dublin, while Wee Jimmy and Mental Davy from Salford will still go to Bishops or The Tavern
.
I don't think the regular season ticket prices, or SOME of the general admission tickets will increase much, as they will now that they need the working class locals to create the atmosphere the gin and tonic and the prosecco types paying a fortune in the corporate lounges want as part of the "matchday experience".
They will be expecting an extra 5,000+ corporate tickets to pay a significant amount of the build costs, and much more spend in the ground or club run concession stands (a variety of bars and fast food) and fans to get to the ground at 12:30 or one for a three o clock kick off rather than staying in Yates or the Lass o gowry etc

A system of drains, sumps and pumps I'd imagine.

 

[next_number_seven]

Being able to see the whole stadium from every part of the pitch sounds such a basic, but will be good.

For anyone who has ever sat in the back rows of the 2nd tier, and only being able to see about an inch above the other end crossbar!

Have never sat in the North 3, but can only imagine that's an even more surreal experience.

It's reasons like this we need an upgrade.

And we might as well start from scratch on a new stadium as the cost savings of renovation probably ain't worth it in the long run.

The railway line causes too many problems with expansion and accessibility.

 

[downunder red]

That would be amazing but I'm 99.9% certain it won't be happening as it's too much land for them not to develop into something. Probably a Fitness First and a Costa Coffee.

Yeah your probably right but if enough people were to put it to the higher ups, you just never know.
If I ever get the chance to come from the other side of the world to see a game I know the first thing I'd do is go for a
walk on the hallowed turf if it still existed.Don't forget it is the theatre of dreams.

 

[next_number_seven]

A couple of points I don't think have been considered on this thread, if you are digging down so the pitch is lower than the level of the Ship Canal, how will it drain?
Second point, I fully expect offices to be placed under the stands, some will be club office's, but others will be on a five, ten or twenty year lease, meaning year round footfall making use of the public transport network and more importantly, providing a regular "customer base" for the concessions in the "fanzones" if done correctly, it can have an area for families and kid friendly on matchday and for office staff Monday to Friday, with a larger area for Sean, Seamus, paddy and Eugene on their annual trip from Belfast or Dublin, while Wee Jimmy and Mental Davy from Salford will still go to Bishops or The Tavern
.
I don't think the regular season ticket prices, or SOME of the general admission tickets will increase much, as they will now that they need the working class locals to create the atmosphere the gin and tonic and the prosecco types paying a fortune in the corporate lounges want as part of the "matchday experience".
They will be expecting an extra 5,000+ corporate tickets to pay a significant amount of the build costs, and much more spend in the ground or club run concession stands (a variety of bars and fast food) and fans to get to the ground at 12:30 or one for a three o clock kick off rather than staying in Yates or the Lass o gowry etc

I imagine lots of effort will be

Yes

 

[buchansleftleg]

I live in Ireland so haven't visited Old Trafford much and when I do I'm trying to save my money.

But am I right in saying that people don't spend much time around the stadium before and after games?

People get in and out quite quickly?

There's not even that many food and drink options in the general area of the stadium.

Is there a reason for this? Is it just that the footfall isn't enough to sustain businesses long term.

People generally only arrive early if they are a "tourist" also catching a game or someone who has tried to avoid the horrendous traffic problems around the stadium. Nearby you have a dated mid 80's shopping centre on the site of the old White City Speedway track. You have to go to the Lowry to find something close to edible that isn't a street van selling squirrel or other mystery meat.

Locally on the Stretford side there are a lot of terrace and semi-detatched houses that get swamped with parking on match-day and to the north are a number of fairly rough estates of social housing with then Media city to the North West having a lot of high rise flats and some cultural activities like the war museum and theatre etc.

What will be great about this plan is that a lot of industrial space will be given up and replaced by a large volume of new housing that will create a natural amount of footfall at all different times of the day, so will make new businesses more sustainable rather than solely depending on match day traffic.

The volume of traffic heading to the South and west of the city needs to be managed and we don't want the ground to be surrounded by car parks. The first key step is to manage the traffic in the area by moving the freight terminal out of the area and get a proper train and tram service running there to manage the commuter traffic, never mid match day traffic on top.

Local Stretford residents would love their to be a proper series of park and ride car parks that link into this transport network so that their streets don't get over-run with match day car owners parking within "a walk away" of the stadium. Everything about the current setup has people trying to get away from the ground as quickly as possible after the game to go and find their car and join the snail trail of cars polluting the area even more than the commuter traffic does.

It would be great it the revised stadium had a mixture of different fan zones to suit all sort of requirements. If you want cheap beer and a sing song...go to this venue. Here with the young family...try this restaurant...here to smooth the wheels of business - pay more for a box and help subsidise other activities - Want to visit a nice restaurant because it's a family occasion?...We can do that too rather than a choice of Frankie and Bennys or a Wetherspoon.

 

[Red in STL]

exactly, Wembley has this and how many times has it been used?

Actually Wembley only has a partly retractable roof over the East and West stands, but the Principality stadium in Cardiff does have a full retractable roof and that's not closed much

 

[Plant0x84]

Actually Wembley only has a partly retractable roof over the East and West stands, but the Principality stadium in Cardiff does have a full retractable roof and that's not closed much

It was closed when we played AC Milan in preseason under Ole, and it was a horrible sweaty breathless experience. Zero fresh air.

 

[next_number_seven]

People generally only arrive early if they are a "tourist" also catching a game or someone who has tried to avoid the horrendous traffic problems around the stadium. Nearby you have a dated mid 80's shopping centre on the site of the old White City Speedway track. You have to go to the Lowry to find something close to edible that isn't a street van selling squirrel or other mystery meat.

Locally on the Stretford side there are a lot of terrace and semi-detatched houses that get swamped with parking on match-day and to the north are a number of fairly rough estates of social housing with then Media city to the North West having a lot of high rise flats and some cultural activities like the war museum and theatre etc.

What will be great about this plan is that a lot of industrial space will be given up and replaced by a large volume of new housing that will create a natural amount of footfall at all different times of the day, so will make new businesses more sustainable rather than solely depending on match day traffic.

The volume of traffic heading to the South and west of the city needs to be managed and we don't want the ground to be surrounded by car parks. The first key step is to manage the traffic in the area by moving the freight terminal out of the area and get a proper train and tram service running there to manage the commuter traffic, never mid match day traffic on top.

Local Stretford residents would love their to be a proper series of park and ride car parks that link into this transport network so that their streets don't get over-run with match day car owners parking within "a walk away" of the stadium. Everything about the current setup has people trying to get away from the ground as quickly as possible after the game to go and find their car and join the snail trail of cars polluting the area even more than the commuter traffic does.

It would be great it the revised stadium had a mixture of different fan zones to suit all sort of requirements. If you want cheap beer and a sing song...go to this venue. Here with the young family...try this restaurant...here to smooth the wheels of business - pay more for a box and help subsidise other activities - Want to visit a nice restaurant because it's a family occasion?...We can do that too rather than a choice of Frankie and Bennys or a Wetherspoon.

Good post.

They mentioned reopening the old Trafford train station.

Also in one of the videos there was a tram line.

Those two pieces of public transport infrastructure will be key.

I like the overall vision and ambition but I'm not sure about the trident design aspect.

I do like the canopy and fan zone/plazas though.

Moving the freight terminal seems like a huge bottleneck to the project though.

Things like that take years and years in Ireland and construction can't start until the freight terminal is moved.

Sir Jim is impatient and wants to get building.

 

[elmo]

Why the ommission of a retractable roof?

Because it makes the place insufferable unless you love not having fresh air.

 

[always_hoping]

Being able to see the whole stadium from every part of the pitch sounds such a basic, but will be good.

For anyone who has ever sat in the back rows of the 2nd tier, and only being able to see about an inch above the other end crossbar!

Have never sat in the North 3, but can only imagine that's an even more surreal experience.

Have sat there many times including my 2nd last visit. It's fine with a full view of the pitch. Doesn't suit those with issues with heights or anyone overweight with the amount of steps up to your seat.

 

[Hal9000]

OR you could put a roof on and have them every month. Just a thought. Have you experienced Manc weather? It can rain and be miserable even in the summer.

Yes i have experienced it, same came be said for anywhere in UK.

Concerts are never really scheduled for winter or spring, because configuration and set up time and potential damage to the turf. The schedule also can't be set in stone because ya'know the club don't know their fixtures till they are released, what if the club goes far in respective cup competitions?

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

Have sat there many times including my 2nd last visit. It's fine with a full view of the pitch. Doesn't suit those with issues with heights or anyone overweight with the amount of steps up to your seat.

It's an awesome view from the 3rd tier. The only problem is it's full of day trippers so the atmosphere is next to zero.

 

[Hal9000]

That would be amazing but I'm 99.9% certain it won't be happening as it's too much land for them not to develop into something. Probably a Fitness First and a Costa Coffee.

Looking at the design, most of that walkway up to the stadium will be where Old Trafford is now.

 

[next_number_seven]

Once Old Trafford is knocked down they should leave the pitch and turn it into a park for everyone to enjoy. They could still build around it.
I'm sure people would enjoy walking, playing, picnicking even spreading their ashes etc etc on the sacred turf.

The walkway from the train station to the new stadium seems to go through it.

However I bet they'll keep elements of it like a plaque for the center circle or maybe one of the goals.

It would be cool if they kept the red brick wall of the home dugout and some seats for example.

 

[jojojo]

Moving the freight terminal seems like a huge bottleneck to the project though.

United presumably already have a deal with the freight terminal - we know the freight company support the project.

Once they know the big project will go ahead I'm guessing they'll give us a chunk of the terminal (where it overlaps with the footprint of the stadium) and they'll get some United land (mostly car parking) to maintain capacity.

Not straightforward obviously because access roads will change, temporary workarounds are seldom cost-free and United will be relying on the the car parks for all the building site clutter.

No one's going be happy until the freight line and depot have gone and the new public transport links are in. The big project for the area wants that freight depot for homes, businesses and open space and makes assumptions about public transport.

It doesn't necessarily impact our building timeline. If it doesn't happen though it massively impacts the overall project and would scupper the benefits to the area that we're claiming in our plan as well as the commercial viability of the stadium development.

Hence the stuff about needing the government to confirm that it will back the infrastructure work. Basically they all need to hear when the money's coming for the work on the missing bit of the northwest freight route. That's the go button for United (and a lot of other people).

 

[next_number_seven]

United presumably already have a deal with the freight terminal - we know the freight company support the project.

Once they know the big project will go ahead I'm guessing they'll give us a chunk of the terminal (where it overlaps with the footprint of the stadium) and they'll get some United land (mostly car parking) to maintain capacity.

Not straightforward obviously because access roads will change, temporary workarounds are seldom cost-free and United will be relying on the the car parks for all the building site clutter.

No one's going be happy until the freight line and depot have gone and the new public transport links are in. The big project for the area wants that freight depot for homes, businesses and open space and makes assumptions about public transport.

It doesn't necessarily impact our building timeline. If it doesn't happen though it massively impacts the overall project and would scupper the benefits to the area that we're claiming in our plan as well as the commercial viability of the stadium development.

Hence the stuff about needing the government to confirm that it will back the infrastructure work. Basically they all need to hear when the money's coming for the work on the missing bit of the northwest freight route. That's the go button for United (and a lot of other people).

Ah ok. Good post.

So the new stadium only requires the freight yard land and the freight terminal can stay in place temporarily. We can possibly land swap some car parks for the freight yard.

But for the grander regeneration vision, the freight terminal must move to the East Parkside side near St Helens, which Andy Burnham is backing.

That makes me more confident it might actually happen.

That's probably why Sir Jim is confident it can be done in 5 years, the stadium aspect I mean.

If the project was dependent on moving the freight terminal, 5 years would be impossible.

 

[jojojo]

Ah ok. Good post.

So the new stadium only requires the freight yard land and the freight terminal can stay in place temporarily. We can possibly land swap some car parks for the freight yard.

But for the grander regeneration vision, the freight terminal must move to the East Parkside side near St Helens, which Andy Burnham is backing.

That makes me more confident it might actually happen.

That's from what we've been seeing but as everything's artists impressions and blocky representations (and no actual dimensions, map overlays etc) there's a lot of guesswork involved.

Whether that explains the 5-7 years timeline given by Foster I don't know. I think the fact so many local authorities and companies (including some who are much bigger and richer than United) want the same thing and are involved means it's a bit more than just Ratcliffe's vanity project.

 

[next_number_seven]

That's from what we've been seeing but as everything's artists impressions and blocky representations (and no actual dimensions, map overlays etc) there's a lot of guesswork involved.

Whether that explains the 5-7 years timeline given by Foster I don't know. I think the fact so many local authorities and companies (including some who are much bigger and richer than United) want the same thing and are involved means it's a bit more than just Ratcliffe's vanity project.

Based on this it looks like the stadium can squeeze in just about and keep the actual freight terminal in place but the freight yard will have to move.

But as you say, it's difficult to tell.

But we must assume it's the case, otherwise they wouldn't be so confident of building it in 5 years.

It could take 10 years to move the freight terminal. The new one in St Helen's hasn't even started construction.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

It reminds me of the lookout tower from Dragon Ball Z

i was thinking Sauron's Tower from LOTR, Sir Jim has a bit of a wizard look about him too, maybe its his personal space.

 

[neon_badger]

Ah ok. Good post.

So the new stadium only requires the freight yard land and the freight terminal can stay in place temporarily. We can possibly land swap some car parks for the freight yard.

But for the grander regeneration vision, the freight terminal must move to the East Parkside side near St Helens, which Andy Burnham is backing.

That makes me more confident it might actually happen.

That's probably why Sir Jim is confident it can be done in 5 years, the stadium aspect I mean.

If the project was dependent on moving the freight terminal, 5 years would be impossible.

The advantage of Trafford Park comes into play here, its designed for haulage and hgvs and I'd imagine there's opportunities to work through the night or at least move things during the night without disturbance.

 

[Pass and Move]

Someone has quite possibly already suggested this, but I’d love for the bricks from Old Trafford to be laid as the walkway up to the new stadium.

 

[lex talionis]

Would it not be possible to use the leverage of the stadium deal to force the Glazers out?