Knocking on the formation is silly, the roles differed quite a bit over time as they do with all formations. There was a brief stint with Falcao, Van Persie and Rooney in the side when the front two was actually a 3-5-2 but otherwise the attacking shape is pretty modern.
That's some revisionism.
Do you honestly think you're the first person in this entire thread to make the SAF comparisons?
That's the default every single time. Bring up the 80s as if nothing else has changed since then
How? Let's agree on the idea that we were boring, how is it not fairly good to finish 5th with the same amount of points than 4th while having a season filled with key injuries and a fairly weak squad in the first place?
While messing up nearly all results? Yes.
The objective is always champions league at a MINIMUM, I don't understand how it's not OK to reduce standards for ETH (which I agree, he should be sacked) but now we should reduce them for LVG retrospectively? That was a big summer at the time with all these players signed, and we massively underperformed. Not just in the position but performances too.
I'll have you know SAF got us relegated once. The next season we won the World Cup.
Ah, OK my bad.
There's zero chance anybody in the US is informed on United.
Again not really sure what you're on about mate. My point has been around the midfield gap which appears both at United and the 2019 Ajax team, which stems from similar tactics of one of the CMs dropping deep and the other two staying high up, which creates that gap. I don't even think I've made reference to the midfield in an attacking sense in this specific convo (although in previous ones I have said that the attack of united resembles more the later Ten Hag Ajax rather than the 2019 one). I assume as you're focusing on the attack that you agree with my overall point which still stands. You can see similar tactics that Ten Hag has applied in his previous Ajax squads at United.
You jumped to a conclusion that wasn't made. One can say that LVG results were fairly good within the context of that season while also considering that in the grand scheme of things he deserved to be sacked, largely due to the quality of a number of performances.
That's the issue you are making a parallel between midfields that have totally different setups and dynamics. It's extremely important to keep in mind how things move in transition if you are talking about managing gaps, when neither of your midfielders are engaged in the final third, the apparent gap is an illusion because your midfields are by design in a position to squeeze the field while being between their goal and the ball, for us this season it's the opposite. In one case you are by design outnumbered for most of the transition while in the other situation you are never outnumbered you just gave space in the middle third but because you didn't commit players you can easily manage it. The concepts are totally different.
Yeah I am absolutely certain it has
Okay now I think im getting your point.a bit. The gap I'm referring to is in the build up this season. The design of that being your deeper midfielder and CBs can draw the press allowing for passes into the high 8s or attackers who will have more space to receive the ball as well as being able to match up in terms of numbers. Which we saw a lot this season with Bruno and when Kobbie was playing as an 8 both being ahead of the play with Casmeiro sitting much deeper(drawing complaints that there is a gap that we struggle to progress through). You'd see Dalot popping in that gap from time to time and Mainoo or mctominay dropping in that gap from time to time. When Martinez is in the team you also see him popping into that gap. When I say that gap I'm referring to the vacant space around the deep midfielder and between him and the 8s. All of that is similar to what Ten Hags Ajax would do. Some of this is standard amongst some managers e.g. the fullback popping into midfield, whilst the size of that gap is pretty unique to Ten Hag as seen at Ajax. Now saying that the tactic is similar to Ajax doesnt mean its being performed to the level of Ajax, which it clearly isn't due to in my opinion Casemiro and the none Martinez CBs not being suited to it.
100% surely
It is. Silly season has come early.
I see but that's not an issue for us and it also goes back to my initial post. ETH has no intention to play like Ajax, he had no intention to have a possession based approach. He literally described the opposite, he wanted us to have a direct approach built around speed and the ability to surprise the opposition in transition. It's not the same tactic, not the same philosophy and it's a bit strange to try and force ideas that the manager denied.
Maybe they were. But Arteta, when they decided to stick with him, got massive backing in the market and he improved them immensely afterwards. Trouble is, we’ve already given that backing to EtH to the tune of £400m and we’ve gone backwards and ended with a negative goal difference. How much more £’s are we going to have to back him with to compete with Arsenal?Look again, Arsenal fans were rabidly calling for him to be sacked after a couple of weak seasons. He had Kronkes son on his side and the rest is history. Maybe there is a lesson there?
The football was boring as feck and his personality wasn't great either. It was clear the players have given up on him. But results wise, I can make better arguments for 5th with LvG squad than Ten Hag with whatever our league / CL showing was this season.
Whats the lesson? Every club should blindly give managers a free pass for several because it's worked out well for Arsenal?Look again, Arsenal fans were rabidly calling for him to be sacked after a couple of weak seasons. He had Kronkes son on his side and the rest is history. Maybe there is a lesson there?
Same here
All of which his Ajax team possessed, most notably when playing teams as big or bigger than them they were a great transitional side (arguably the reason that 2019 team got as far as it did in the champions league), who were also great at possession play when they could dominate a team which was more natural to them. Yes the manager has said what he has said, however he's also stated that he wants more possesion and the team to play with a higher line, he has also talked about the CM being deeper and having two high 8s. To disregard the fact that there are clear similarities in the build up play as well as the same deficiencies which have resulted in the exact same criticisms that he received at Ajax for me would be strange. He's stated on many occasions that he wants the team to have more possession as well as being a great transitional side (again of which his 2019 Ajax team was). Now would united be a replica of that Ajax team, no, just like the current city isn't a replica of the Barca team yet has Pep's dna in them, the same with Klopps pool and dortmund. This united team has got Ten Hag's dna in them, the good and the bad, and with the current squad of players more of the later.
Nonsense, LVG's team was miles better than this team.
Berrada is only starting in mid-July and we're obviously not going to be replacing the manager so late.
Come on. Instead of Licha and Casemiro, he had Fellaini and Phil Jones.
Nah, he makes me laugh which is a good thing in this shitshow of a thread.Is it feck
I'm going to level with you, it's really boring.
Just picked the players with the most mins in the league and put them in a 4-2-3-1 (the dominant formation that season). They're definitely not miles better. Are they a little better? Probably up for debate.
No chance, if by what you mean is "this team" when fully fit. The team we actually saw this season, due to injuries, was shit and if you mean that then LVG's would scrape their boots on our faces. Van Gaal's team did a nice job of putting most of us to sleep, but they were methodical in their dire approach to the game in case that's any consolation.
Yes, exactly that. Amazing what a bit of trust and confidence will do for employee performance.
I think Ashworth has been in the garden too much and got sunstroke.
