Onana has not worked out. We need a new keeper.

[Rojofiam]

My point is (and I shouldn't have to explain it, but here goes)
Despite all the stats people like you throw up, he's still picked the ball out of the net 81 times this season.
He's had more cock ups than a whore
His distribution is worse than a blind postman
And finally we are 8th in the table, with a negative goal difference. That is the only stat that counts, we would be in no worse a position if we had kept De Gea, and bought a decent midlfielder !

So if Ederson played for United, and conceded 81 goals, he would be a shit keeper? Whilst Onana would be conceding way less at City.

If you don't understand how facing more shots will result in more goals conceded, no matter who you have in goal, then please don't reply to this post as you clearly don't understand anything

 

[arnie_ni]

Can someone tell.me how to block posters please

 

[Matt Varnish]

So if Ederson played for United, and conceded 81 goals, he would be a shit keeper? Whilst Onana would be conceding way less at City.

If you don't understand how facing more shots will result in more goals conceded, no matter who you have in goal, then please don't reply to this post as you clearly don't understand anything

Please admit you haven't watched him, really you haven't have you ?
He concedes goals that other keepers would save.
Please before you type another word, go and watch some games again, and this time take those rose tinted glasses off.
As an instance, watch the Palace game again, and tell me all those goals were unstoppable.

Oh and FYI, shots conceded inludes those that go high, wide, and are blocked by defenders, so thats a bit of info you should take into consideration when making wild statements.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Can someone tell.me how to block posters please

If you are getting abuse via PM, then you should report it.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Whilst reports of any player being a done deal in this clickbait age are often wide of the mark, Lunin is showing tonight why Utd fans could be confident in his ability if he was a realistic target - biggest part is he does the simple bits of goalkeeping with no fuss & his foot positioning means he is able to get across & push the ball away rather into danger. Off the line as a sweeper keeper he seems to install confidence in his back four. Not sure though if he’s played himself from 3rd choice to No1 due to age/injuries of keepers at Madrid?

If we were to sign Lunin how long would it be before we got threads like this about him and people blaming him for every goal we conceed.

The truth is no keeper would have suceeded in our team this season with no real defence or midfield in front of them.

 

[Rojofiam]

Please admit you haven't watched him, really you haven't have you ?
He concedes goals that other keepers would save.
Please before you type another word, go and watch some games again, and this time take those rose tinted glasses off.
As an instance, watch the Palace game again, and tell me all those goals were unstoppable.

Oh and FYI, shots conceded inludes those that go high, wide, and are blocked by defenders, so thats a bit of info you should take into consideration when making wild statements.

Except that I've mentioned several times this season that his shot-stopping has to improve because some of the howlers have been unacceptable.

But every single possession-based top team concedes a fraction of the number of shots and chances we do. And Onana's strengths are suited to a possession-based team. That's why he was brought in over better shot-stoppers.

Also can't take anyone seriously that claims his distribution is bad. It's one of the best in the world. He's a top 2 passer in the Premier League behind Ederson. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Lash]

that any half decent shot goes past him?

you have people bigging up his saves statistics and how many he’s made forgetting that the people defending eth and our shots conceded are all low quality shots. Wel of course he should be saving low quality shots, that doesn’t make him an excellent goal keeper. Anything low, in a corner, outside his standing zone goes in

It doesn't though. There are obvious examples where he should do better, but he also makes some fantastic saves. He generally rushes out well too. I've already claimed he's only above average shot stopper that's good on the ball. We're yet to really see the fruits of that final attribute, but he has shown glimpse of some fantastic distribution.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Except that I've mentioned several times this season that his shot-stopping has to improve because some of the howlers have been unacceptable.

But every single possession-based top team concedes a fraction of the number of shots and chances we do. And Onana's strengths are suited to a possession-based team. That's why he was brought in over better shot-stoppers.

Also can't take anyone seriously that claims his distribution is bad. It's one of the best in the world. He's a top 2 passer in the Premier League behind Ederson. You don't know what you're talking about.

More stats that mean nothing
Watch the Palace game and then tell me how good his distribution is.
Your defence of him is admirable.
But wrong.

If he is that good,
Why did Inter let him go (When they had paid f'all for him)
Why did Ajax let him go

 

[Zlatan 7]

It doesn't though. There are obvious examples where he should do better, but he also makes some fantastic saves. He generally rushes out well too. I've already claimed he's only above average shot stopper that's good on the ball. We're yet to really see the fruits of that final attribute, but he has shown glimpse of some fantastic distribution.

I would genuinely like to see a reel of his fantastic saves for us

 

[arnie_ni]

If you are getting abuse via PM, then you should report it.

Oh God no I just think rojo is a on wum and can't be arsed seeing his posts

 

[Rojofiam]

More stats that mean nothing
Watch the Palace game and then tell me how good his distribution is.
Your defence of him is admirable.
But wrong.

If he is that good,
Why did Inter let him go (When they had paid f'all for him)
Why did Ajax let him go

His distribution will be regularly great in a possession-based team and with outfield players who know where to position themselves when the goalkeeper has the ball.

Are you seriously asking why Inter and Ajax let him go?

Inter let him go because: 1. The player wanted to go 2. They don't have the ambition to keep their best players no matter what, because they're a Serie A club who aren't rich 3. They can't pass up on 43m a year after getting him on a free.

Ajax let him go because Onana wasn't willing to renew his contract, but even if he would have been, Ajax are a selling club these days that only intends to dominate the Eredivisie (6th best league in the world), and make a shit ton of money by buying and/or developing a lot of talents for a few years before selling them for a big fee. So Onana would've eventually left for better club in a top 5 league either way.

You asking these questions and completely dismissing statistics because you think your surface-level knowledge that you gain by watching games is more reliable makes me think you are very uninformed about this topic.

P.S: You should rewatch his performances at Anfield and the Etihad this season, that will tell you why Onana is light years ahead of De Gea if you're building a possession-based team in modern day football.

 

[Matt Varnish]

I would genuinely like to see a reel of his fantastic saves for us

Found this, it's 4 mins long, take into account they show most of the saves twice, quite a few of them are not what I would call "great" more like bread and butter, and a fair few hit him, rather than him actually saving them,

 

[mu4c_20le]

Also can't take anyone seriously that claims his distribution is bad. It's one of the best in the world. He's a top 2 passer in the Premier League behind Ederson. You don't know what you're talking about.

He's Matt Turner?

 

[Zlatan 7]

Found this, it's 4 mins long, take into account they show most of the saves twice, quite a few of them are not what I would call "great" more like bread and butter, and a fair few hit him, rather than him actually saving them,

Thank you. Just started watching it.
That 3rd one in against city Diving on the spot and wristing it anywhere.

 

[Matt Varnish]

His distribution will be regularly great in a possession-based team and with outfield players who know where to position themselves when the goalkeeper has the ball.

Are you seriously asking why Inter and Ajax let him go?

Inter let him go because: 1. The player wanted to go 2. They don't have the ambition to keep their best players no matter what, because they're a Serie A club who aren't rich 3. They can't pass up on 43m a year after getting him on a free.

Ajax let him go because Onana wasn't willing to renew his contract, but even if he would have been, Ajax are a selling club these days that only intends to dominate the Eredivisie (6th best league in the world), and make a shit ton of money by buying and/or developing a lot of talents for a few years before selling them for a big fee. So Onana would've eventually left for better club in a top 5 league either way.

You asking these questions and completely dismissing statistics because you think your surface-level knowledge that you gain by watching games is more reliable makes me think you are very uninformed about this topic.

P.S: You should rewatch his performances at Anfield and the Etihad this season, that will tell you why Onana is light years ahead of De Gea if you're building a possession-based team in modern day football.

It's obviously escaped you that we are not a possession based team, we simply do not have (even with 100% fit) players capable of retaining the ball.
He only played 24 games for Inter, any team would take 43m + add ons for a keeper like him.
I dismiss statistics because they mean nothing.
If you are saying we should retain him because he played well against two teams, then you seriously need help.
So; what you are saying is that what I and a lot of others see when he plays is our eyes lying to us, and we are really winning these games, and we are in fact top of the EPL because your "statistics" say we should be!
Let me go away and think about that one for a moment.

 

[Matt Varnish]

He's Matt Turner?

Statistically that table is upside down

 

[Zlatan 7]

Found this, it's 4 mins long, take into account they show most of the saves twice, quite a few of them are not what I would call "great" more like bread and butter, and a fair few hit him, rather than him actually saving them,

Ok. Meh. Not sure what to say. He made a good save against Brighton and the pen was his best save. The rest is what you expect any keeper in any league to make I think. If that’s his best saves all in one vid and they had to include the most boring of ones to puff it up I disagree with people saying he’s made lots of fantastic saves and we’d be lower in the league without him.

 

[clarkydaz]

Found this, it's 4 mins long, take into account they show most of the saves twice, quite a few of them are not what I would call "great" more like bread and butter, and a fair few hit him, rather than him actually saving them,

didnt watch the vid, this was enough

 

[Matt Varnish]

Ok. Meh. Not sure what to say. He made a good save against Brighton and the pen was his best save. The rest is what you expect any keeper in any league to make I think. If that’s his best saves all in one vid and they had to include the most boring of ones to puff it up I disagree with people saying he’s made lots of fantastic saves and we’d be lower in the league without him.

Also take into account that if any of those teams had a Van Nistelrooy or similar, the goals conceded tally would have been a lot higher, the number of times he pushes the ball back into the danger area is alarming.
The van Dyke one is straight at him, he cannot fail to save that, (well it's Onana, so he could), the one form Haaland hits him on the shoulder, he knows f'all about it.

Some of them are what I remember Schmiechel calling camera shot, easy, but you make them look hard purely for the camera.

 

[The Hilton]

How can you watch Onana stink up the place for the entire season yet pull up statistics and tell me how he has prevented 5 more goals than he should have, and that with a straight face? There’s a 15 minute blooper reel of his cock ups and he has let 80 goals past him. And you need evidence

And yes average was indeed better than some of the crap being served last year by the likes of Antony, Weghorst, Eriksen, Casemiro, Fred and others. We scored 58 goals last year in the PL.

Why would I have any difficulty quoting objective statistics with a straight face?

Onana has made some terrible errors, as DDG did last season, but in terms of stopping shots, he's been better at it this season than DDG was last season. The numbers don't lie, and if you can't accept them then maybe you should take a step back and look into why you can't be rational about this subject.

 

[The Hilton]

Great isn’t it

Stats are indeed great, they allow us to be objective in the face of irrational posters who are led by their opinion.

 

[The Hilton]

This is the only stat that matters
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/table

That's just silly, the table doesn't tell us how individual players are performing.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Stats are indeed great, they allow us to be objective in the face of irrational posters who are led by their opinion.

Not at all. Not even close.

 

[Zlatan 7]

didnt watch the vid, this was enough

He Should have said most of the saves twice… as a minimum! Most were shown four or five times

 

[The Hilton]

Not at all. Not even close.

I find this line of thinking bizarre. Are you suggesting that data isn't useful? The good old fashioned eye test is better?

 

[Zlatan 7]

I find this line of thinking bizarre. Are you suggesting that data isn't useful? The good old fashioned eye test is better?

Your stats say that Onana saved 5.7, that’s 5.7 more goals than he ‘should’ have. Do you realise how bizarre that sounds after just watching even the crystal palace game where he could or ‘should’ have saved Atleast 2 of them. It’s the most ridiculous stat I’ve seen to defend him.

 

[The Hilton]

Your stats say that Onana saved 5.7, that’s 5.7 more goals than he ‘should’ have. Do you realise how bizarre that sounds after just watching even the crystal palace game where he could or ‘should’ have saved Atleast 2 of them. It’s the most ridiculous stat I’ve seen to defend him.

Opta premier league stats, not my stats. And as I stated, they were as of the 10th April, it's likely changed in the last month. However it doesn't sound bizarre at all, you're referring to one match where he had a bit of a howler (which I agree he should have done better with 2 of their goals).

This is a great example of why stats are important in the face of irrationality - your perspective is skewed by our most recent match, hence your illogical argument that it somehow negates the stats from the rest of the season.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I don't think that he is that good, he isn't bad though. I see him closer to average than anything else.

Come off it. There’s valid criticism but on the ball he’s world class. Yes he’s made mistakes with it but name me a ball playing keeper who hasn’t?

 

[Zlatan 7]

Opta premier league stats, not my stats. And as I stated, they were as of the 10th April, it's likely changed in the last month. However it doesn't sound bizarre at all, you're referring to one match where he had a bit of a howler (which I agree he should have done better with 2 of their goals).

This is a great example of why stats are important in the face of irrationality - your perspective is skewed by our most recent match, hence your illogical argument that it somehow negates the stats from the rest of the season.

I said the Crystal Palace match as it was a perfect and recent example of saves he could or should have made. There’s been countless goals all season where fans have thought he could or should have done better with weak goals. Yet somehow you’ve got this stat saying he saved basically 6 more than he should have, after I’ve just watched a video of his best saves of the season and they were 99% bread and butter saves for any keeper, there was nowhere near 6 saves that were expected to be goals but Onana somehow pulled off a worldy

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

By current PL standards, he's average.

I mean he quite clearly isn’t. If we are starting to say that it’s clearly become agenda posting, because there’s plenty of legitimate criticism to level at him without making stuff up.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Come off it. There’s valid criticism but on the ball he’s world class. Yes he’s made mistakes with it but name me a ball playing keeper who hasn’t?

He's really not though. He can launch an accurate long ball every once in awhile, but so can many PL keepers nowadays. He was 1 for 10 against Palace.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

He's really not though. He can launch an accurate long ball every once in awhile, but so can many PL keepers nowadays. He was 1 for 10 against Palace.

Alright so we’ve hit the stage of nonsense in the thread. Good to know.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Alright so we’ve hit the stage of nonsense in the thread. Good to know.

What's a stage of nonsense?

 

[Plant0x84]

We won’t get another keeper now. No chance. We’re on a tight budget and only just bought Onana, he’ll get another season. Hopefully in a better system and a team that doesn’t concede 20+ shots every game he may come good

Apparently Bayindir has already agreed a move in the summer because he’s not happy with his lack of playing time and Heaton contract is due to expire. We will be signing at least 1 keeper so why not make Onana our no.2 or cup keeper?

 

[The Hilton]

I said the Crystal Palace match as it was a perfect and recent example of saves he could or should have made. There’s been countless goals all season where fans have thought he could or should have done better with weak goals. Yet somehow you’ve got this stat saying he saved basically 6 more than he should have, after I’ve just watched a video of his best saves of the season and they were 99% bread and butter saves for any keeper, there was nowhere near 6 saves that were expected to be goals but Onana somehow pulled off a worldy

You keep referring to it as "my" stat, which you know is dishonest. It's a statistic that came from the Premier League. You can go on as many hyperbole filled rants as you like, but up until the 10th April he was the second best goalkeeper in the league for preventing expected goals, having conceded 5.7 fewer goals than the expected goals from the shots on target he'd faced. The Palace game doesn't factor into that, and will no doubt reduce that number, but it's almost certainly still positive, which is an improvement compared to DDG last season who was in the red.

This is exactly why it's a great stat, because it allows us to be objective in the face of irrational fans who are frothing at the mouth due to recency bias after a bad performance. It's a much better gauge than you watching a compilation video that you weren't impressed with.

 

[Zlatan 7]

You keep referring to it as "my" stat, which you know is dishonest. It's a statistic that came from the Premier League. You can go on as many hyperbole filled rants as you like, but up until the 10th April he was the second best goalkeeper in the league for preventing expected goals, having conceded 5.7 fewer goals than the expected goals from the shots on target he'd faced. The Palace game doesn't factor into that, and will no doubt reduce that number, but it's almost certainly still positive, which is an improvement compared to DDG last season who was in the red.

This is exactly why it's a great stat, because it allows us to be objective in the face of irrational fans who are frothing at the mouth due to recency bias after a bad performance. It's a much better gauge than you watching a compilation video that you weren't impressed with.

No, I said you’ve got this stat. I didn’t say it was yours.
i havent hyperboled. I haven’t ranted.
I’d love to know what these 5.7 saves are that were expected goals because I’m sure they were not in that video of his best saves apart from the penalty save and probably the Brighton save, and that’s still ignoring all the saves he should have made.

Some fans are Stat mad these days and may aswell watch football from ceefax or a spreadsheet. I get it, you like to watch football through stats, Inlike to watch the actual game and what I see from Onana doesn’t impress me at all. Opinions.

 

[Sky1981]

You keep referring to it as "my" stat, which you know is dishonest. It's a statistic that came from the Premier League. You can go on as many hyperbole filled rants as you like, but up until the 10th April he was the second best goalkeeper in the league for preventing expected goals, having conceded 5.7 fewer goals than the expected goals from the shots on target he'd faced. The Palace game doesn't factor into that, and will no doubt reduce that number, but it's almost certainly still positive, which is an improvement compared to DDG last season who was in the red.

This is exactly why it's a great stat, because it allows us to be objective in the face of irrational fans who are frothing at the mouth due to recency bias after a bad performance. It's a much better gauge than you watching a compilation video that you weren't impressed with.

Yes, he's so bad and shaky every teams are peppering him with pot shots

But hey, "second best goalkeeper"

 

[arnie_ni]

He's Matt Turner?

Alright so we’ve hit the stage of nonsense in the thread. Good to know.

 

[DJ_21]

Apparently Bayindir has already agreed a move in the summer because he’s not happy with his lack of playing time and Heaton contract is due to expire. We will be signing at least 1 keeper so why not make Onana our no.2 or cup keeper?

Probably because we don’t have the money to sign a first team keeper. We have other priorities. A ST will probably take most of our budget.

 

[Member 76197]

No, I said you’ve got this stat. I didn’t say it was yours.
i havent hyperboled. I haven’t ranted.
I’d love to know what these 5.7 saves are that were expected goals because I’m sure they were not in that video of his best saves apart from the penalty save and probably the Brighton save, and that’s still ignoring all the saves he should have made.

Some fans are Stat mad these days and may aswell watch football from ceefax or a spreadsheet. I get it, you like to watch football through stats, Inlike to watch the actual game and what I see from Onana doesn’t impress me at all. Opinions.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Onana is the reason I'm an Xg atheist. People are so obsessed with the statistification of football and this one is particularly bad for me.

You don't need any stats to tell you what your eyes can see with Onana. The desperation of some fans to say otherwise is desperate.