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At his 73rd attempt aged 60 years young. If at first you don't succeed try try again..Tweet
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That’s massively underplaying his ability. Both Everton and West Ham were perennial relegation candidates when he took charge of them and he made both of them into top 6 sides. I don’t like his style of play and he’s not right for the top clubs as a result but he’s a top class manager.They were terrible in the League Cup the other week but doing very well in the League and EL. He's a solid manager that will get most mid table sides fighting for a European spot.
As daft as it would make us look it would be the best way for a base to be laid. He would build a good team even if he gets so old that he’s not in a position to see the full fruits of his labours. I’ve always felt if we had just given him a couple of seasons we would have ended up in a much better position than becoming just another hire and fire big club.The Chosen One. And all these years later, he'd make the most sense as a returnee. He can add that to his resume I guess: "would make most sense as returnee to the crime scene."
It wouldn't be a great argument.Hopefully West Ham do sack Moyes as he has worked absolute wonders there. He now has an argument to being their best ever manager.
Fans are stupid, West Ham fans particularly so. They’d be happy to sack their best manager and bring in a no-hoper for the promise of “West Ham Way” football.
Also, West Ham finished sixth under Moyes in 20-21.
Which means he isn't a Top Class manager.That’s massively underplaying his ability. Both Everton and West Ham were perennial relegation candidates when he took charge of them and he made both of them into top 6 sides. I don’t like his style of play and he’s not right for the top clubs as a result but he’s a top class manager.
His disastrous stints at Sociedad and Sunderland didn't help either to be fair.Moyes should really get a chance of coaching a top club, but is suffering from the same thing as Mourinho, which is that his stint at United has damaged his reputation beyond repair.
I would argue that only now he is being seen in the same light as he was before he took over United, a bit more than 10 years ago now.
ETH will have the same problem once his time at the club comes to an end. Or maybe everyone ultimately realizes that it isn't the managers, but I would not hold my breath.
He should not, because he is not a top manager. He is a good one, that feels at home at clubs that are underperforming, but have the potential to fight for Europa league places. He needs a team full of physical players that are hard to beat, but most are not good enough for top clubs. That is David Moyes himself as well.Moyes should really get a chance of coaching a top club, but is suffering from the same thing as Mourinho, which is that his stint at United has damaged his reputation beyond repair.
I would argue that only now he is being seen in the same light as he was before he took over United, a bit more than 10 years ago now.
ETH will have the same problem once his time at the club comes to an end. Or maybe everyone ultimately realizes that it isn't the managers, but I would not hold my breath.
Prior to last season (36 points) our lowest ever points total in the league came under Moyes.That’s massively underplaying his ability. Both Everton and West Ham were perennial relegation candidates when he took charge of them and he made both of them into top 6 sides. I don’t like his style of play and he’s not right for the top clubs as a result but he’s a top class manager.
great postCongratulations Dave, massive achievement for him to achieve this achievement in his 3rd (uno, dos, tres) decade of management in the Premier League as a manager.
Yeah.He only won his first trophy last year after c. 25 years of management
Don't disagree with the trophy thing, or indeed about the obvious cap to his capabilities, but I think you've been a bit harsh.Prior to last season (36 points) our lowest ever points total in the league came under Moyes.
Also since West Ham got promoted from the Championship c. 10 years ago, their two lowest league positions have been under Moyes (one of them when he took over mid season). They've been a fairly mid table side.
He has a good high ceiling with mid table clubs but he's also capable of having a really low one too. What he does offer though is consistency usually for these type of clubs and after 2 or 3 years you can kind of guarantee that you'll have a side that will be finishing top 10 most seasons or fighting for those top 7 or 8 spots. That's a solid/good manager for me, but he has shown that he has a mental block/cap to his ability.
He only won his first trophy last year after c. 25 years of management and his away record against top clubs is a absolutely shocking. A top class manager doesn't really suffer from those two things.
Not sure what your point is here. I think people can clearly see the difference between 4x CL winner Ancelotti and David Moyes.Yeah.
So, I cannot open Wikipedia for some reason so please help me out, what did Ancelotti win with Everton?
My point regarding those low finishes with WH and Everton was that he does have the potential to dip at times and it was more in response that we were both perennial relegation candidates. That could be more said for us but not West Ham during the time he took them over (they were a comfortable mid table side).Don't disagree with the trophy thing, or indeed about the obvious cap to his capabilities, but I think you've been a bit harsh.
That lowest points total was in his second full season (and Everton had finished 16th the year before he took over, and 15th the year he did with only a handful of games left) and he didn't finish lower than 11th after that, and even managed a top four finish one year, as well as a run of three or four seasons inside the top six.
I think it's also a bit harsh to point at the West Ham finishes considering one was him taking over mid-season and the other was a season in which they won a European trophy.
Having just googled, Everton were actually 6 points clear of the drop with the "lowest" points total, but in 97/98 had just a point more and survived on goal difference.
He's a manager very happy and very capable managing an "underdog" but (and I've said this in other threads) there's little separating Moyes at Everton, or even now at West Ham, from the flavour of the month managers of other mid-table clubs that repeatedly get brought up as potential United managers.
And I think it's a bit harsh to refer to them as "dips".My point regarding those low finishes with WH and Everton was that he does have the potential to dip at times and it was more in response that we were both perennial relegation candidates. That could be more said for us but not West Ham during the time he took them over (they were a comfortable mid table side).
I think for Everton he was a great manager but in regards of overall management ability he'd be in the solid/good realm, certainly not top class due to his poor trophy cabinet and a quite frankly hideous record against the top teams.
Ten Hag take note!!At his 73rd attempt aged 60 years young. If at first you don't succeed try try again..
I don't think it is. He went from 15th to 7th to 17th to 4th to 11th before then getting us consistently top 8 finishes in the league. Even last season, their league campaign (WH) was truly horrific. He was teetering on the edge of being sacked most weeks and it was basically the ECL campaign that kept him in a job.And I think it's a bit harsh to refer to them as "dips".
The Everton dip happened in his second full season. If he hadn't overachieved with a top half finish in his first, it'd have basically been par for the course.
The West Ham ones were him taking over mid-season, and a season in which they finished 14th and won a European trophy.
I agree he's not a top manager, but, based on results, he's definitely Everton's best manager of the Premier League era, and has to be in with a shout of being West Ham's too.
Everton were perennial relegation candidates when he took over, and West Ham were in danger of the drop both times he joined them mid-season, even if they weren't usually involved in those battles.
What would he have won in 25-26 attempts in cup competitions if he'd been there for 12 years?Yeah.
So, I cannot open Wikipedia for some reason so please help me out, what did Ancelotti win with Everton?
True but let's not forget it was Everton. He didn't turn Luton or Burnley into a top 10 PL side.Don't disagree with the trophy thing, or indeed about the obvious cap to his capabilities, but I think you've been a bit harsh.
That lowest points total was in his second full season (and Everton had finished 16th the year before he took over, and 15th the year he did with only a handful of games left) and he didn't finish lower than 11th after that, and even managed a top four finish one year, as well as a run of three or four seasons inside the top six.
I think it's also a bit harsh to point at the West Ham finishes considering one was him taking over mid-season and the other was a season in which they won a European trophy.
Having just googled, Everton were actually 6 points clear of the drop with the "lowest" points total, but in 97/98 had just a point more and survived on goal difference.
He's a manager very happy and very capable managing an "underdog" but (and I've said this in other threads) there's little separating Moyes at Everton, or even now at West Ham, from the flavour of the month managers of other mid-table clubs that repeatedly get brought up as potential United managers.
You had 26 points in 21 games from January onwards. That's mid table form.WHU were in top half form in the second half of last season; the lowly 14th was due to a really bad first half of the season where loads of new players arrived, several key players were injured and there was a hangover from losing the Europa League semi final the season before against Eintracht Frankfurt.
The signing of Scamacca up front didn't work at all. He simply didn't offer the endeavour and movement that we get from Bowen now and have previously had with Antonio or Arnautovic under Moyes.
Kudus is also significantly better than the unfortunate Cornet, and the unsuitable Benrahma who lacks quality on anything like a consistent basis and against good teams.
Moyes is in with a fighting chance of getting West Ham into the Champions League if it goes to 5th this year.
Not sure what your point is here. I think people can clearly see the difference between 4x CL winner Ancelotti and David Moyes.
I mean it’s you that suggested United have had one academy success in the past 30 years isn’t it? And that were should let that part of the club heritage go?My point is that people on this board have a weird tendency to judge managers on trophies without taking into account the strength of the sides they had at their disposal. And also to glorify progressive brands of football that are being played by hardly anyone and that fall apart without top players in each position(think Pep's first season or Liverpool without VVD).
This is why there is always a silence when there are discussions on who United's next manager should be. It is because apart from Pep and Klopp and maybe De Zerbi or Xabi Alonso, everyone is either crap or past it according to Redcafe.
I never said Moyes was crap though. I said the difference between good and top managers is trophies, aswell as other factors.My point is that people on this board have a weird tendency to judge managers on trophies without taking into account the strength of the sides they had at their disposal. And also to glorify progressive brands of football that are being played by hardly anyone and that fall apart without top players in each position(think Pep's first season or Liverpool without VVD).
This is why there is always a silence when there are discussions on who United's next manager should be. It is because apart from Pep and Klopp and maybe De Zerbi or Xabi Alonso, everyone is either crap or past it according to Redcafe.
Yes.4 full seasons and he breaks Wenger's record for games managed in the PL
Is his contract with West Ham up this summer?
Never.I mean it’s you that suggested United have had one academy success in the past 30 years isn’t it? And that were should let that part of the club heritage go?
What do you think would happen if Mourinho was put in charge of this City side ? Same players, same funds ? And be safe from the sack in the first year regardless of results , as Pep was.Top managers are extremely rare, that's why Mourinho is still seen as one of the top managers despite having passed his prime long ago, simply because there aren't much managers with the skillset and pratical results to be considered one yet.
Or even a Champions League qualifying manager.People comparing Moyes to some of the best managers ever like Carlo. Moyes is an elite manager, that's for sure. Otherwise he wouldn't had the career he had at top clubs.
Yes, he probably isn't talented enough to become a Champions League wining manager, but football needs managers like him too, who are extremely competent at their job and making clubs with less financial capacity to make more steady seasons.
Top managers are extremely rare, that's why Mourinho is still seen as one of the top managers despite having passed his prime long ago, simply because there aren't much managers with the skillset and pratical results to be considered one yet.
You said this…Never.
I just said that the recent track record of the academy is abysmal and that people should not get their hopes up.
Which is totally untrue of course.Given that United academy have produced a grand total of one home grown key player in the last 30 years, I was hoping that this pipedream of relying on the academy would have disappeared by now
I don't think he would won the title anytime soon tbh. I don't see his teams getting consistency in making a good average of points per game. Could win the league if the champion needed less than 85 points to win the league, which is rare to happen lately.What do you think would happen if Mourinho was put in charge of this City side ? Same players, same funds ? And be safe from the sack in the first year regardless of results , as Pep was.