Club Sale | It’s done!

[antohan]

The article suggests the funding could be coming from his dad who is worth an absolute shed ton due to linking himself personally (sounds a lot like corruption…) into any deals he made on behalf of Qatar as PM - Barclays for example back in 2008. He also half-owned Qatar airways when it was sold in 2014. Nobody has a scooby how much he’s worth but the 2bn listed in the times rich list is thought to be “very conservative”.

I have a vague recollection from ~20 years ago that MNOs wanting to do business in the GCC had to have a local Sheikh as a partner with a considerable stake.

They contributed little by way of capital and their selection revolved around the access gained (eg if Pepsi you want the guy with supermarkets who can leave Coke out, not the airline chap).

It's plausible that some (very important and massively favoured) people have made a truckload of money this way. Wouldn't call that corruption, just the rules of engagement for big time business in GCC. It's also relevant that if this is the source, this chap isn't going to be skint any time soon.

 

[Zed 101]

What I absolutely love is that some posters actually seem to think what any fan thinks makes a blind bit of difference, even if the entire Utd fanbase worldwide presented a 100% for or against voice it will not make a single iota of difference to either seller or buyer

 

[Mickeza]

Nail. On. Head. Lots of fence sitting. Even Caf were reluctant to host poll. That’s cos one one wants to alienate potential future owners. Example: I have a buddy who’s a pro photographer. He has to be everyone’s friend because: access. G Nev needs that kind of access. Yes he’s been brave (late in the game) viz. the Glazers. Expect to hear from him on this in about 10 years.
Cantona I dunno. I love the guy. At least he won’t do a Beckham. Neither will Keane. But yep. Deafening silence, so far.

Neville has already spoken on it. He said the horse has bolted in terms of state ownership and the key reason he wasn’t overtly anti-glazers before the ESL was because of what came next and the types of people who could afford the club. Quite a lot on this forum said the same and were called Glazer stooges.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Cantona doesn't really need to say anything more, since we all know his stance. He spoke out against the World Cup and Beckham's role and didn't really say anything directly (just something about him probably supporting a Championship club now if he grew up in this period) when he was asked about a month ago about Qatar owning United. Beckham is an ambassador for Qatar and Neville seems to have some sort of business links with the country as well. Considering two of the most prominent members being pro-Qatar probably keeps the other quiet because they surely will benefit from it too.

Regarding Neville - what business links are those? Didnt he just do a programme. Not the most critical one, but he still showed up at least.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Nail. On. Head. Lots of fence sitting. Even Caf were reluctant to host poll. That’s cos one one wants to alienate potential future owners. Example: I have a buddy who’s a pro photographer. He has to be everyone’s friend because: access. G Nev needs that kind of access. Yes he’s been brave (late in the game) viz. the Glazers. Expect to hear from him on this in about 10 years.
Cantona I dunno. I love the guy. At least he won’t do a Beckham. Neither will Keane. But yep. Deafening silence, so far.

Cantona has already been asked about it but didn't really say much other than he doesn't like what football has become. Also he was very vocal against the WC and Qatar in general then. We know Beckham is pro-Qatar by now, most likely Gary Neville too. The rest will most likely financially benefit from Qatari investments just by sitting still, so why should they say anything at all?

 

[ROFLUTION]

What I absolutely love is that some posters actually seem to think what any fan thinks makes a blind bit of difference, even if the entire Utd fanbase worldwide presented a 100% for or against voice it will not make a single iota of difference to either seller or buyer

Do you love that? What sort of things gets you off then?

 

[devilish]

Where does 1.5m (that I saw several times) come from? 0.5% of class B shares is around 0.35% of total shares. If the club sells for 5B-6B, Ed is gonna net 17-22m pre-tax.

I heard that on one of the youtube channels I follow

 

[Sweet Square]

Billionaires being shady in how they acquire their wealth is nothing new, you of all people know that.

True and I’m sure there’s all sorts of shady stuff around the other bidders. It’s just at the moment that most likely reasoning imo is this guy is a proxy for Qatar state ownership.

Tbh I’m expecting the Glazer still be here, as that’s the type of awful and stupid world we live in now.

 

[Grande]

Your hypothetical implies that any wealthy Qatari individual is just a prop of the State.

Would you call Fredo a prop of the House of Corleone? He did make his own deals. But then again, he was offed by his cousin as a result. Responsibility within limits?

Do I imply that a super wealthy man in the House of Al Thani is no more ‘private individual’ than a powerful man from the House of Corleone? Certainly. They are organized in the same way.

 

[Giggsyking]

The article suggests the funding could be coming from his dad who is worth an absolute shed ton due to linking himself personally (sounds a lot like corruption…) into any deals he made on behalf of Qatar as PM - Barclays for example back in 2008. He also half-owned Qatar airways when it was sold in 2014. Nobody has a scooby how much he’s worth but the 2bn listed in the times rich list is thought to be “very conservative”.

It is very difficult to know how much exactly a rich person is worth in the ME. No advanced taxations system and people do not need to declare everything and it is easy to manipulate the system. For example the former Iraqi PM official net worth is 2 m USD, but everybody knows it is absolutely not true to see someone with net worth of only 2m go around with an army of private guards that cost more than 2m a month, there is estimations that vary from 8b upwards to 50b USD.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

There's suddenly a lot of stories about the Glazers potentially staying put doing the rounds. Seems like we're being prepped for that likelihood

BBC even reporting this could happen. Would be awful to continue being hamstrung by these leeches when there was finally a sliver of hope.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Cantona has already been asked about it but didn't really say much other than he doesn't like what football has become. Also he was very vocal against the WC and Qatar in general then. We know Beckham is pro-Qatar by now, most likely Gary Neville too. The rest will most likely financially benefit from Qatari investments just by sitting still, so why should they say anything at all?

Maybe because of.. not thinking about money and caring for the great history of our club which we build without oil-money from a regime that dont represent the common man/woman? Maybe that?

… or just come out plain and say they support Qatar.

 

[Tarrou]

What I absolutely love is that some posters actually seem to think what any fan thinks makes a blind bit of difference, even if the entire Utd fanbase worldwide presented a 100% for or against voice it will not make a single iota of difference to either seller or buyer

nobody would buy a business if 100% of it's customers didn't want you to own it

 

[Tincanalley]

Regarding Neville - what business links are those? Didnt he just do a programme. Not the most critical one, but he still showed up at least.

You beat me to it. Was going to ask the same. He’s curiously passive and sounding defeatist re state ownership. Very nice around City too, mind. Which was why I mentioned access. But I’d like to hear more substance on ‘business links’. You can’t just throw that out there.

 

[villain]

True and I’m sure there’s all sorts of shady stuff around the other bidders. It’s just at the moment that most likely reasoning imo is this guy is a proxy for Qatar state ownership.

Tbh I’m expecting the Glazer still be here, as that’s the type of awful and stupid world we live in now.

I agree it’s probably the most likely, but i’m holding out that there’s alternative probabilities also.
The Glazers staying would be the worst scenario as a fan.

Would you call Fredo a prop of the House of Corleone? He did make his own deals. But then again, he was offed by his cousin as a result. Responsibility within limits?

Do I imply that a super wealthy man in the House of Al Thani is no more ‘private individual’ than a powerful man from the House of Corleone? Certainly. They are organized in the same way.

Quite the claim.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Regarding Neville - what business links are those? Didnt he just do a programme. Not the most critical one, but he still showed up at least.

Can't remember right now, thought I read a report that he had some business interests with the country. But he did accept a payday from state-owned BeIN Sports during the WC and for someone that is an outspoken Labour man, he sure does deflect a lot when asked about Qatari takeover and issues there in general, so hard to not get the feeling that he's in it financially. I do agree with some of his sentiments though, that increased exposure can and probably will lead to change.

 

[devilish]

I know exactly how shit the Glazers have been, no need to preach that. No-one is defending their ownership here.

None of that though means only a state can save us.

United will cost in the region of 5-6b. The stadium would cost us another 2b and I can see other costs going up to the 1b mark (transfers, Carrington etc). On top of that there is the Glazers debt to service (500m- 1b). We are talking about 8b here which is alot of money especially for a business

 

[Siorac]

What I absolutely love is that some posters actually seem to think what any fan thinks makes a blind bit of difference, even if the entire Utd fanbase worldwide presented a 100% for or against voice it will not make a single iota of difference to either seller or buyer

For one, why do you love that?

Second, if by some sheer miracle every single United fan in the entire world were against a prospective owner and threatened boycott, that would absolutely make a massive amount of difference. It is never going to happen but no one would want to buy the club if, as in your hypothetical scenario, its incomes would plummet immediately upon acquisition.

 

[Mickeza]

nobody would buy a business if 100% of it's customers didn't want you to own it

Glazers say hello.

 

[glasgow 21]

They are absolute scum. And the conditions of their financial "help" are often brutal. 15% on 600 million loan. The Chinese owner of Milan had a debt of 300 million and was paying 32 million in instalments (one instalment). Glazers and Elliot would be an unholy alliance the likes of which haven't been seen and it will spell the final destruction the club.

Singer who has been called a vulture capitalist because of Elliot's investments in distressed debt
Singer focused from early times "on distressed assets, earning a reputation for strong-arming his way to profit. Glazier /Singer combo with creamy Ranch Sauce is the nightmare scenario.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Safe to assume we'll get no updates this week as Raine and the dirty bastards discuss the offers to buy the club?

I'm guessing the next actual significant update will be the first week of March

 

[TMDaines]

Glazers say hello.

There’s plenty of who would quietly continue with the status quo given the problematic options on the table.

 

[whitbyviking]

United will cost in the region of 5-6b. The stadium would cost us another 2b and I can see other costs going up to the 1b mark (transfers, Carrington etc). On top of that there is the Glazers debt to service (500m- 1b). We are talking about 8b here which is alot of money especially for a business

What makes you think the stadium would cost £2bn? The Arsenal and Spurs stadia where nowhere near that cost and it is 50% more expensive to build in London based off a consultancy report (done in 2021, but likely to be in the approx range now). The land around OT is also a lot more accessible, without many of the logistic issues faced by projects in central London.

 

[laughtersassassin]

If the Glazers do stay the fans need to get multiple games called off again.

It's for the long term good of the club.

 

[Tarrou]

Glazers say hello.

that didn't happen though did it

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Maybe because of.. not thinking about money and caring for the great history of our club which we build without oil-money from a regime that dont represent the common man/woman? Maybe that?

… or just come out plain and say they support Qatar.

I get what you are saying but that would at best probably only score them some fan (with some part of the United fanbase but loads with other fanbases) and media points while at the same time risk future earnings. Hard to get people to do that when there's a more viable option in just sitting still (come out in support would probably give them unecessary public backlash), even if we see them as rich enough in the first place.

 

[Mickeza]

that didn't happen though did it

What didn’t happen? The overwhelming majority of fans (customers in your argument) didn’t want the Glazers to take over. They still bought it. Okay it wasn’t 100% but the resistance was huge.

 

[Tarrou]

What didn’t happen? The overwhelming majority of fans (customers in your argument) didn’t want the Glazers to take over. They still bought it. Okay it wasn’t 100% but the resistance was huge.

okay glad we agree

 

[TrebleChamp99]

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[Mickeza]

okay glad we agree

Agree that there are numerous examples the world over of hostile takeovers? Yes. We do.

 

[Tarrou]

Agree that there are numerous examples the world over of hostile takeovers? Yes. We do.

about the 100% figure

what do hostile takeovers have to do with this?

 

[Pickle85]

What I absolutely love is that some posters actually seem to think what any fan thinks makes a blind bit of difference, even if the entire Utd fanbase worldwide presented a 100% for or against voice it will not make a single iota of difference to either seller or buyer

You don't think that the entire fanbase of a club mobilising and expressing their dissatisfaction with the move (we're talking about a co-ordinated effort of millions and millions) would give an owner cause to give it more thought? We're talking about an open expression of the alienation of the club's entire fanbase. I absolutely think that would make a potential purchaser think twice. Why on earth would someone want to buy a club for its global reach and reputation among fans, knowing that the purchase would immediately alienate 100% of the people you're using to boost your reputation?)

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

United will cost in the region of 5-6b. The stadium would cost us another 2b and I can see other costs going up to the 1b mark (transfers, Carrington etc). On top of that there is the Glazers debt to service (500m- 1b). We are talking about 8b here which is alot of money especially for a business

A successful United with debt removed from the company, either wiped, or placed on a much larger parent company will also drive revenues of up to a billion though.

As you say, we’ve thrown almost a bn in the dumpster with shit transfers, and almost another bn servicing debt, and at a time of being shite.
Despite this we currently look good on the pitch, and have a valuation of around 5 billion.

This is a club that can absolutely afford our own transfers and a new training ground, at the very least.

Let’s not pretend we’re some poor club in an impossible position.

I think we’ll likley refurb or build a new stadium + Carrington for max 1.5 bn, whoever takes over. If someone removes our debt, keeps the ETH train going, this monster of a club doesn’t need a sugar daddy. Just someone to take the stupid Glazer debt elsewhere.

 

[red thru&thru]

all the Qatari guy needs to do is sell his garden shed to the State for £20b.
If real madrid got away with it, so can he.

Good point.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I wonder where Cantona is in all this.

His opinion and concern would be nice to have publicly out there before the Glazers decide.

Also the Class of 92 should speak up more. Whether they are pro or against Qatar, they’re all just sitting there - but they are all pundits, so it seems weird for them to not voice any strong opinions.

I imagine Cantona is against a Qatar takeover. He boycotted the World Cup and even criticized Beckham for working with them.

 

[ROFLUTION]

I get what you are saying but that would at best probably only score them some fan (with some part of the United fanbase but loads with other fanbases) and media points while at the same time risk future earnings. Hard to get people to do that when there's a more viable option in just sitting still (come out in support would probably give them unecessary public backlash), even if we see them as rich enough in the first place.

You're probably right. Their identity IS United, so if they spoke up against their new overloads and called them out for hypocrisy, that would be used against them for eternity and in debates if we're taken over by Qatar.

That's why you have to applaud Cantona even more. He stays away from being an expert on TV and he hasn't lost his roots. Many of the old players think they need to retain their exorbitant lifestyle, which is why they care way too much of their commentator-jobs instead of just being humble and being in sync with the fans.

A guy like Schmeichel is and has always been without any morale whatsoever. Purely out for money and status, which matters a great deal for him. He's appeared on Russian TV for the previous World Cup, Pro-Qatar TV before the Qatar World Cup and he'd probably do TV in 1933 if certain historic people paid him well to. As a dane like me, you probably observe him a little closer, but you can totally understand why Keane called him out in his book. One'd hope Keane stands up more in this owner debate too.

 

[ROFLUTION]

I imagine Cantona is against a Qatar takeover. He boycotted the World Cup and even criticized Beckham for working with them.

I know that, but what I'm hoping for is that he'll be more vocal. Now is the time he has to influence people. It did influence people when he boycotted the Qatar World Cup I believe.

 

[devilish]

A successful United with debt removed from the company, either wiped, or placed on a much larger parent company will also drive revenues of up to a billion though.
We can absolutely afford our own transfers and a new training ground.

Let’s not pretend we’re some poor club in an impossible position.

I think we’ll likley refurb or build a new stadium + Carrington for max 1.5 bn, whoever takes over.

I never said that we are poor. However the amount of investment needed is eye watering and we also did 115m loss last year . There is a reason why the Glazers are leaving. Its the end of the run for them

Can we compete with state owned clubs while also paying all of that? I don't think so. We also have to carry the debt left by the Glazers as well (with Ineos) and quite frankly the football people behind SJR aren't very bright

I fear we will end up like all of ineos football clubs ie happy with a top 4 finish.

 

[Coops73]

People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the funds of the Qatar state while also claiming it has nothing to do with the Qatar state.



If it’s all his private wealth then it’s a incredibly worrying deal.

The guy is claiming massive changes at United, and the best answer we’ve got(Apart from him as a proxy for state ownership)is that he might be hiding billions and that his dad is loaded.

I’m thinking the same too now. I’m worried the way that Ineos are dealing with debt and what I read as a bit of flakey statement which had pushed me into thinking this Qatari bid, was the best, at least the statement seemed to answer some of my fears (debt, investment etc) but if this guy really is nothing to do with the state and it’s his own personal wealth, what is his wealth? I’m hearing him or his old man is worth 2bn? Well that ain’t gonna cut the mustard.

I still believe the Qatari government are fully behind this and this Jissum fella is just a front but how is he going to prove his wealth? or is that just a case of the government pinging over a few billion into his current account?

 

[NicolaSacco]

I never said that we are poor. However the amount of investment needed is eye watering and we also did 115m loss last year . There is a reason why the Glazers are leaving. Its the end of the run for them

Can we compete with state owned clubs while also paying all of that? I don't think so. We also have to carry the debt left by the Glazers as well (with Ineos) and quite frankly the football people behind SJR aren't very bright

I fear we will end up like all of ineos football clubs ie happy with a top 4 finish.

Building a state of the art 100k seater stadium, plus training facilities, whilst completely revamping your squad would be seriously impressive. But yeah, that’s billions not millions.