Club Sale | It’s done!

[Bestie07]

I have so many questions.

Nine two foundation - why haven't I heard of it till today? Is this something they made up just to acquire the club?

Who exactly is this consortium made up of? The person fronting this is worth about a billion quid, so there have to be other more wealthier people involved.

If it comes out that this really is a group of private Qatari investors coming together and not backed by the Qatar state fund, would all the fans be able to get on board with the new owners?

 

[Drawfull]

Weird I always thought “to table” something meant put it to the side and discuss it later.

The NA usage is more normally to put aside, but in the UK it means to put forward.

 

[croadyman]

I have so many questions.

Nine two foundation - why haven't I heard of it till today? Is this something they made up just to acquire the club?

Who exactly is this consortium made up of? The person fronting this is worth about a billion quid, so there have to be other more wealthier people involved.

If it comes out that this really is a group of private Qatari investors coming together and not backed by the Qatar state fund, would all the fans be able to get on board with the new owners?

Nah I am certain that even if it was proven this Qatari bid wasn't state backed (certain it is) many would still not get onboard due to their human rights issues which is understandable.

 

[7even]

Let’s just focus on Ratcliffe for a second and after seeing his bid and reading his statement serious questions has to be asked if he’s genuinely interested in buying Manchester United. I personally have serious doubts.

Everything that’s in that statement is so badly written and underwhelming that it’s hard to take him seriously. If such a wealthy businessman with highly paid advisers, PR people, lawyers and so on to his disposal can’t put together a better prospect then imagine the rest.

Any buyer who has to cooperate with firms like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs has in my eyes lost all credibility. More debt just means more trouble, it’s that simple. A new stadium and a better infrastructure will cost a fortune and if this guy don’t even have the money to buy the club with his own cash then who’s going to pay for any improvements that’s badly needed?

Ratcliffe is definitely not my choice. Too many red flags to even consider him.

 

[redNATION]

I have so many questions.

Nine two foundation - why haven't I heard of it till today? Is this something they made up just to acquire the club?

Who exactly is this consortium made up of? The person fronting this is worth about a billion quid, so there have to be other more wealthier people involved.

If it comes out that this really is a group of private Qatari investors coming together and not backed by the Qatar state fund, would all the fans be able to get on board with the new owners?

Yes that’s exactly what it is, a front for QIA no doubt.

 

[Tarrou]

Nah I am certain that even if it was proven this Qatari bid wasn't state backed (certain it is) many would still not get onboard due to their human rights issues which is understandable.

I wouldn't mind it if it was private investors. You can't blame the people of a country for their leaders actions.

However, it seems incredibly unlikely to be that.

 

[kouroux]

Do you really think we can be PSG in the PL? Or we're like PSG before the Qataries bought them?

We were discussing the possibility of how we'd do under the Qataries and imo there's nothing sure about looking at PSG atm. Do you agree with that?

Never alluded to that. Just saying that QSI hasn't been all negative for PSG and french football. Au contraire, I'd say there are a lot more positives than negatives.
I would agree with your last sentence, the 2 club situations are way too different to draw any comparisons about the Qatari ownership possible impact at United.

 

[devilish]

Let’s just focus on Ratcliffe for a second and after seeing his bid and reading his statement serious questions has to be asked if he’s genuinely interested in buying Manchester United. I personally have serious doubts.

Everything that’s in that statement is so badly written and underwhelming that it’s hard to take him seriously. If such a wealthy businessman with highly paid advisers, PR people, lawyers and so on to his disposal can’t put together a better prospect then imagine the rest.

Any buyer who has to cooperate with firms like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs has in my eyes lost all credibility. More debt just means more trouble, it’s that simple. A new stadium and a better infrastructure will cost a fortune and if this guy don’t even have the money to buy the club with his own cash then who’s going to pay for any improvements that’s badly needed?

Ratcliffe is definitely not my choice. Too many red flags to even consider him.

Even if debt ends up being absorbed by INEOS we're still talking of a 70 old man who, quite frankly, isn't that good in managing football clubs. There is no guarantees that the guy will pump the serious money United need to compete against the Abu Dhabi/Saudis (he didn't do that against the Qatari) and once the guy kicks the bucket INEOS will sell us off to the highest bidder.

I hope that he ends up at the losing side. Maybe after bidding for Chelsea (who he was a season ticket holder) and United, he suddenly remember that he's actually a Liverpool supporter having seen them win the league cup in 1980

 

[kouroux]

They had Ronaldinho playing for them. They won a european trophy in 96. They finished second in 03/04, 3 points behind the winners.
French teams making champions league QF's and later isn't new. Making your striker the director of football is, thats what qatar brought to PSG

Thank you for the unnecessary history lesson They were far more chaotic than that, they also almost got relegated, infighting among sets of ultras. QSI stabilized them and grew them into a brand with a far better reputation

 

[kouroux]

They were nowhere near the stature they are now.

Marseille were Kings in France with the likes of Monaco, Lyon and even Saint-Etienne and Bordeaux being bigger clubs than them at the time.

I remember visiting Paris years before the takeover and almost nobody I ever met supported the local club

Now they're the main continental giant in France after the last decade. For whatever circus buying big names has brought, they've firmly established that club as a giant from almost nothing pedigree wise.

You have to wonder just what they could achieve with an already well established behemoth in United.

That's what I meant basically. PSG was still a big club but truly chaotic, inconsistent and nowhere as recognized and loved as right now.
The Qataris have their fault and have done many wrong things but overall ? There is no way to say PSG hasn't benefited from their ownership. It would be idiotic to do so

 

[RussellWilson]

I look forward to all the moral high grounders that have gone on about Qatar during the World Cup and this takeover bid to go on endlessly about the moral crimes of the USA when they host the next World Cup.

I suspect they'll be very quiet as it's only the evil brown boogeymen that do bad things and shouldn't get involved sport.

 

[Real Name]

Sorry for an ignorance, what's a qsi?

 

[devilish]

Thank you for the unnecessary history lesson They were far more chaotic than that, they also almost got relegated, infighting among sets of ultras. QSI stabilized them and grew them into a brand with a far better reputation

I think that both INEOS and QSI had made their share of mistakes and both are learning their way in managing football clubs (QSI had sacked Leonardo to bring a real DOF in while INEOS seem to be replacing Brother bobby with Blanc). The difference between the two is that QSI can afford making mistakes as they'll quickly put their hands in their pockets back. INEOS force some idiot on the club who saddle the club with has beens like Barkley and Ramsey only to then hide behind sustainability.

 

[Real Name]

I look forward to all the moral high grounders that have gone on about Qatar during the World Cup and this takeover bid to go on endlessly about the moral crimes of the USA when they host the next World Cup.

I suspect they'll be very quiet as it's only the evil brown boogeymen that do bad things and shouldn't get involved sport.

USA put a bid for United?

 

[dabeast]

Cheatsheet - Ratcliffe/INEOS vs Jassim/NinetyTwo Foundation
1. INEOS is massive chemical company, NinetyTwo Foundation is controlled by Jassim who is ex-crown prince of Qatar, Qatar is massive gas producer.
2. INEOS is a company, NinetyTwo is a foundation (all big companies/foundations/funds work with States).
3. INEOS owns another club in Ligue 1, Nice. Jassim's family is involved with QSI that owns PSG in Ligue 1.
4. Ratcliffe needs substantial debt (only reason Goldman Sachs involved) that will probably dwarf existing debt, Jassim says club will be debt-free and profits will be ploughed back into the club.
5. Ratcliffe lives in Monaco but from Manchester, Jassim lives in Qatar but educated at Harrow/Sandhurst in England.
6. Ratcliffe is lifelong Man Utd fan, Jassim is lifelong Man Utd fan.
7. Ratcliffe is Christian and white, Jassim is Muslim and brown.

 

[SirScholes]

We already (or have been at least) outbidding other teams for the biggest players for years. And that's under the fecking glazers. We've just bought the wrong players. If we'd gone for cheaper/younger options then we might have not spent the last decade looking like a shambles.

Who have we out bid?
We’ve over paid for average, but which star player?

 

[UDontMessWith24]

PSG are a big joke today and having more twitter followers wont change it. I'd rather be an ajax / PSV supporter than a PSG supporter.
I followed football in the 90's and early 2000's. I watched Marseille win the Champions League. I saw Monaco in a final the year Abramovich showed up. Whats changed so drastically in your view?

PSG weren’t even relevant enough to be a big joke before the takeover. They’ve underachieved relative to their resources, but they’re still a completely different club now. For L1 it had only been two teams since Marseille that made a CL final. Monaco was a miracle cup run, and PSG were legitimately one of the best teams in the world at the time. That’s 3 in 30 years so it’s not exactly a trend.

 

[redNATION]

Sorry for an ignorance, what's a qsi?

QSI is Qatar Sports Investments, which owns PSG. It’s ultimately owned by QIA the Qatar sovereign wealth fund.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Looking at both confirmed bids I like what INEOS have said about fan centred ownership (need to explain how it would work in future),however worry about them not being able to fully invest and how it's being funded. They also need to make bigger statements in the coming days than putting the Manchester back into Manchester United too.

Then looking at Qatar I like what I hear about their vision for the club going forward,however still need to hear they want to keep Erik and are fully accepting of everyone no matter gender or serial orientation.

I also might have warmed to Ratcliffe's bid if the scousers weren't on the market too and wasn't shit scared about Qatar buying them instead.

Wish there was some guarantee they wouldn't go and invest somewhere else in Premier League but sadly that's not the case.

Was said on Sky yesterday that Thani wants to make clear that Manchester United is open to everybody and they plan massive investment in the women's team.

 

[Marcelinho87]

I have so many questions.

Nine two foundation - why haven't I heard of it till today? Is this something they made up just to acquire the club?

Who exactly is this consortium made up of? The person fronting this is worth about a billion quid, so there have to be other more wealthier people involved.

If it comes out that this really is a group of private Qatari investors coming together and not backed by the Qatar state fund, would all the fans be able to get on board with the new owners?

These are best guesses,.nobody will know the true wealth of Royal individuals from gulf states.

We also can assume safely he has access to many deep pockets.

 

[croadyman]

Was said on Sky yesterday that Thani wants to make clear that Manchester United is open to everybody and they plan massive investment in the women's team.

Cheers for the heads up I hadn't seen that

 

[DevilRed]

Looking at both confirmed bids I like what INEOS have said about fan centred ownership (need to explain how it would work in future),however worry about them not being able to fully invest and how it's being funded. They also need to make bigger statements in the coming days than putting the Manchester back into Manchester United too.

Then looking at Qatar I like what I hear about their vision for the club going forward,however still need to hear they want to keep Erik and are fully accepting of everyone no matter gender or serial orientation.

I also might have warmed to Ratcliffe's bid if the scousers weren't on the market too and wasn't shit scared about Qatar buying them instead.

Wish there was some guarantee they wouldn't go and invest somewhere else in Premier League but sadly that's not the case.

Hard to believe it would ever happen. Especially considering they would have billions of pounds in debt to pay off, assuming they will borrow more to fund a new stadium.

Qatar vision looks far better and they've definitively come out and said they would wipe out the debt.

 

[Bert_]

Honestly. Im sad about this.

Im Manchester born and bread and season ticket holder for over a decade before moving abroad. I honestly feel the club is a part of me and my identity.

Don’t get me wrong, The Glazer era has been a nightmare, but from a on field perspective I never felt we were doing in an illegitimate way. I almost felt more proud of the team because we were competing despite being weighed down by Glazer debt.

I always felt when Abramovic came into Chelsea that their success was completely hollow. Same for City.

I can’t help but feel that if Qatar come in, clear out debt, buy us a stadium and pump crazy money, then I feel that our success will feel hollow.

Ten Hag has made me feel great about the team in the last few months. If he gets absolutely crazy money and spends it, I think it will feel artificial.

United have developed their success and popularity organically via legendary players, teams and managers. I just don’t wanna feel our success is gonna be down to one man/nations wealth.

It’s been heading in this direction since we floated in 1991, so what can we do?

Feel the same way. Especially because its all so unnecessary. Even with the Glazer handicap we have won stuff with SAF and under Ten Hag we will again. Even with the Glazers, I reckon Ten Hag would get us there. All we need is someone to remove the Glazer handicap and let us flourish. We don't need piles of cash chucked our way on the condition that we sell our souls to Qatar.

 

[gaffs]

I'm on much the same boat.

But I've come to the realisation that hollow success is better than no success at all.

Or in our case the severe deterioration of the heart and soul of Manchester. Just watching it die a slow death has been incredibly difficult.

Now we have the opportunity to finally get back to where we were. Or at least a chance to.

Maybe you are right. If you can’t beat them, join them!

As I said, team, manager and performance wise, we’re in the best shape since Fergie. I wanna see how far Ten Hag can take us, step by step, without spending silly money.

I feel if we spend the Qatar cash then it’s not gonna feel the same.

I can’t be a hypocrite and condemn Chelsea and City only to see us do the same - and on potently a greater scale.

Let’s see what happens. If Qatar run it as a self sustaining business, I can probably live with it.

Personally, i would feel more comfortable with Jim’s bid.I gotta think his connection to the club matters.

But if not, it’s really sad what my club has become.

 

[Suv666]

How long before all this is over? Is this thing going to take months?

 

[DevilRed]

Maybe you are right. If you can’t beat them, join them!

As I said, team, manager and performance wise, we’re in the best shape since Fergie. I wanna see how far Ten Hag can take us, step by step, without spending silly money.

I feel if we spend the Qatar cash then it’s not gonna feel the same.

I can’t be a hypocrite and condemn Chelsea and City only to see us do the same - and on potently a greater scale.

Let’s see what happens. If Qatar run it as a self sustaining business, I can probably live with it.

Personally, i would feel more comfortable with Jim’s bid.I gotta think his connection to the club matters.

But if not, it’s really sad what my club has become.

We would be a force to be reckoned with even if we didn't have money pumped into the club, but not have to service debt or pay dividends.

But the fact that they would revamp our infrastructure on top of that is just too appealing to say no to.

 

[gaffs]

Feel the same way. Especially because its all so unnecessary. Even with the Glazer handicap we have won stuff with SAF and under Ten Hag we will again. Even with the Glazers, I reckon Ten Hag would get us there. All we need is someone to remove the Glazer handicap and let us flourish. We don't need piles of cash chucked our way on the condition that we sell our souls to Qatar.

Exactly. I just want a well run club, that can stand on its own two feet. I believe United could easily be that and still be the worlds best.

 

[gaffs]

We would be a force to be reckoned with even if we didn't have money pumped into the club, but not have to service debt or pay dividends.

But the fact that they would revamp our infrastructure on top of that is just too appealing to say no to.

All for getting The Glazers out and getting rid of the toxic debt.

But i just don’t wanna be that team where I’m wondering why Qatar Airways just paid us £300m for sponsorship. Or why we have been gifted a stadium. Don’t wanna be City.

Can’t help but feel The Glazers are the only winners here.

 

[gaffs]

Why would anyone want some loser whose leading a 7th place Nice when they can get the serial winners at PSG?

Serial winners? No Champions League at PSG and not even winning every year in a farmers league.

 

[DevilRed]

All for getting The Glazers out and getting rid of the toxic debt.

But i just don’t wanna be that team where I’m wondering why Qatar Airways just paid us £300m for sponsorship. Or why we have been gifted a stadium. Don’t wanna be City.

Can’t help but feel The Glazers are the only winners here.

Malcolm set his children up with multi generational wealth.

 

[devilish]

Serial winners? No Champions League at PSG and not even winning every year in a farmers league.

How many trophies have Ineos two clubs won?

 

[gaffs]

I have so many questions.

Nine two foundation - why haven't I heard of it till today? Is this something they made up just to acquire the club?

Who exactly is this consortium made up of? The person fronting this is worth about a billion quid, so there have to be other more wealthier people involved.

If it comes out that this really is a group of private Qatari investors coming together and not backed by the Qatar state fund, would all the fans be able to get on board with the new owners?

I’m guessing 92 foundation is named after class of 92. I feel Beckham is involved.

Regardless of who is the front man, make no mistake this is backed by the Qatar rulers.

 

[kouroux]

Honestly. Im sad about this.

Im Manchester born and bread and season ticket holder for over a decade before moving abroad. I honestly feel the club is a part of me and my identity.

Don’t get me wrong, The Glazer era has been a nightmare, but from a on field perspective I never felt we were doing in an illegitimate way. I almost felt more proud of the team because we were competing despite being weighed down by Glazer debt.

I always felt when Abramovic came into Chelsea that their success was completely hollow. Same for City.

I can’t help but feel that if Qatar come in, clear out debt, buy us a stadium and pump crazy money, then I feel that our success will feel hollow.

Ten Hag has made me feel great about the team in the last few months. If he gets absolutely crazy money and spends it, I think it will feel artificial.

United have developed their success and popularity organically via legendary players, teams and managers. I just don’t wanna feel our success is gonna be down to one man/nations wealth.

It’s been heading in this direction since we floated in 1991, so what can we do?

Hasn't Ten Hag already spent a lot of money ? That's unavoidable if the intent is to get back Man Utd to winning ways. Money will always be spent.

 

[HBFSTR00]

Cheatsheet - Ratcliffe/INEOS vs Jassim/NinetyTwo Foundation
1. INEOS is massive chemical company, NinetyTwo Foundation is controlled by Jassim who is ex-crown prince of Qatar, Qatar is massive gas producer.
2. INEOS is a company, NinetyTwo is a foundation (all big companies/foundations/funds work with States).
3. INEOS owns another club in Ligue 1, Nice. Jassim's family is involved with QSI that owns PSG in Ligue 1.
4. Ratcliffe needs substantial debt (only reason Goldman Sachs involved) that will probably dwarf existing debt, Jassim says club will be debt-free and profits will be ploughed back into the club.
5. Ratcliffe lives in Monaco but from Manchester, Jassim lives in Qatar but educated at Harrow/Sandhurst in England.
6. Ratcliffe is lifelong Man Utd fan, Jassim is lifelong Man Utd fan.
7. Ratcliffe is Christian and white, Jassim is Muslim and brown.

I like this, good post.

 

[gaffs]

How many trophies have Ineos two clubs won?

Probably non. But it doesn’t mean their / his intentions are the same for United.

 

[gaffs]

Hasn't Ten Hag already spent a lot of money ? That's unavoidable if the intent is to get back Man Utd to winning ways. Money will always be spent.

of course. But it was always earned income. Not from a benefactor.

 

[Amir]

How many trophies have Ineos two clubs won?

Did Ineos spend the sort of money you likely need in order to win trophies?

Maybe that just wasn't the goal there - win at all cost.

 

[justsomebloke]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...d-be-a-disaster-just-look-at-the-state-of-psg

Man's got a point. PSG is a shitshow, and it's sooooo easy envisaging how quickly United would become the same kind if shitshow under the Qataris.

 

[croadyman]

I’m guessing 92 foundation is named after class of 92. I feel Beckham is involved.

Regardless of who is the front man, make no mistake this is backed by the Qatar rulers.

Becks is definitely involved

 

[devilish]

Did Ineos spend the sort of money you likely need in order to win trophies?

Maybe that just wasn't the goal there - win at all cost.

What makes you think that the goal with United will change?