2022 World Cup Qatar thread

stevoc said:
I suppose they classed most of them as natural deaths and/or said well sure statistically they probably would have died in their own countries anyway?
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To be honest Im still trying to work it all out. The WC has been my whole life my favourite sporting event so there is part of me trying to explain this all away neatly to appease that but then there is part of me thats really uneasy and struggling with it all.
 
Stack said:
To be honest Im still trying to work it all out. The WC has been my whole life my favourite sporting event so there is part of me trying to explain this all away neatly to appease that but then there is part of me thats really uneasy and struggling with it all.
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I'm in the same boat. I love the world cup so much, but I get sick thinking about the upcoming one.

I wonder if TV viewers boycotting makes a difference, though? If I don't say anything positive about the tournament to other people and watch it alone on illegal streams or the "free" public broadcaster in my country, then I guess it could be justified? Or am I still a part of the problem if I "participate" with my viewership?
 
OleBoiii said:
I'm in the same boat. I love the world cup so much, but I get sick thinking about the upcoming one.

I wonder if TV viewers boycotting makes a difference, though? If I don't say anything positive about the tournament to other people and watch it alone on illegal streams or the "free" public broadcaster in my country, then I guess it could be justified? Or am I still a part of the problem if I "participate" with my viewership?
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I have more of an issue with the 2026, 2030 WC, with 48 teams which is far too many. It makes it more difficult for the bigger nations not to qualify.

I can't imagine all the matches in Qatar will be sold out. So fans will in a way be boycotting.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I have more of an issue with the 2026, 2030 WC, with 48 teams which is far too many. It makes it more difficult for the bigger nations not to qualify.

I can't imagine all the matches in Qatar will be sold out. So fans will in a way be boycotting.
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Sorry I think the issue of migrant workers safety in Qatar when building stadiums is a far bigger problem than too many teams. We are talking about people being killed during construction due to unsafe work environments. People being killed in my mind is a far bigger problem than 48 teams
 
stevoc said:
I suppose they classed most of them as natural deaths and/or said well sure statistically they probably would have died in their own countries anyway?
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It is not just Qatar as a country that would want to keep such matters quiet. The companies these people worked for, many of which would be internationally recognised construction companies, would not want a work related death to show up on their statistics as it would hamper their chances at future contracts, as their HSE records would be subject to scrutiny prior to new contracts. This is not to say that Qatar as a country should not be doing a lot more to protect the people working in their country, but they should share some of the blame with the employers who contract these people for very little money, and house them in often unfit accommodation.
 
Stack said:
Sorry I think the issue of migrant workers safety in Qatar when building stadiums is a far bigger problem than too many teams. We are talking about people being killed during construction due to unsafe work environments. People being killed in my mind is a far bigger problem than 48 teams
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Apologies, I meant to say my issue was in the context of viewing/television and enjoying the spectacle.

You are totally right about migrant workers and frankly this WC should never have been given the green light.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Apologies, I meant to say my issue was in the context of viewing/television and enjoying the spectacle.

You are totally right about migrant workers and frankly this WC should never have been given the green light.
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Cheers, sorry misunderstood your original context. Im with you on the too many teams thing.
 
Relfy said:
It is not just Qatar as a country that would want to keep such matters quiet. The companies these people worked for, many of which would be internationally recognised construction companies, would not want a work related death to show up on their statistics as it would hamper their chances at future contracts, as their HSE records would be subject to scrutiny prior to new contracts. This is not to say that Qatar as a country should not be doing a lot more to protect the people working in their country, but they should share some of the blame with the employers who contract these people for very little money, and house them in often unfit accommodation.
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Oh you are definitely right there mate, there will be foreign contractors that are complicit with this.The whole thing stinks and as others have said i hate even thinking about it.

This World Cup was awarded over a decade ago due to obvious corruption and until 2-3 years i had thought it would be moved to a more suitable country at some point. But i guess FIFA is still rotten to the core with people of questionable morals who take money out of the game while contributing little towards it.

I don't think i could even watch this World Cup.
 
There will be protests against the improper working conditions for migrant workers in Qatar, after a unanimous group of players get behind their newly appointed manager of the Norwegian national team. Protests will be clear to see for viewers of the game against Gibraltar this evening (Source: Norwegian magazine 'Dagbladet').
 
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snk123 said:
The propaganda against Qatar is laughable really.
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Seriously?

This for example is nuts "Plus, 6500 deaths in 10 years out of a 1.4 population of any community anywhere is pretty standard. So please do some real research "

6500 deaths that are work related? be it accident injury or stress is not pretty standard. Just as an example in a country of 5 million 110 work related deaths is considered far too many.
Its not propaganda, its opposition to abuse of workers on a massive scale
 
For a country in the Middle East they are quite developed so I don’t get the hate. It’s just a thing with the media in Europe/US that likes to shit on these countries. Remember the big build up to Russia 2018 ? Then everything was fine
 
Stack said:
Seriously?

This for example is nuts "Plus, 6500 deaths in 10 years out of a 1.4 population of any community anywhere is pretty standard. So please do some real research "

6500 deaths that are work related? be it accident injury or stress is not pretty standard. Just as an example in a country of 5 million 110 work related deaths is considered far too many.
Its not propaganda, its opposition to abuse of workers on a massive scale
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It is not a figure "directly" from the construction of world cup sites. The article simply states 6500 people have died since the last 10 years in Qatar. That's it.
 
432JuanMata said:
For a country in the Middle East they are quite developed so I don’t get the hate. It’s just a thing with the media in Europe/US that likes to shit on these countries. Remember the big build up to Russia 2018 ? Then everything was fine
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I went and was actually shocked to see how well the world cup was organized in Russia - having heard horror stories in the media. The hypocrisy of the western media when it comes to Qatar especially is fueled by Qatar's rivals - Saudia Arabia and UAE (along with their allies: US)

It's a dirty, dirty political game. I really hope Qatar gets to host the world cup and can't wait to go there.
 
snk123 said:
It is not a figure "directly" from the construction of world cup sites. The article simply states 6500 people have died since the last 10 years in Qatar. That's it.
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I defend Qatar as you can see above but it says 6500 people have died in work. They have 2.8m people for example I live in Ireland and we have 4.9m and we have had 457 in that time. It’s getting thrown around by a lot of UK papers but I don’t see a source
 
snk123 said:
I went and was actually shocked to see how well the world cup was organized in Russia - having heard horror stories in the media. The hypocrisy of the western media when it comes to Qatar especially is fueled by Qatar's rivals - Saudia Arabia and UAE (along with their allies: US)

It's a dirty, dirty political game. I really hope Qatar gets to host the world cup and can't wait to go there.
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See I’ve to St Petersburg it’s a beautiful city very developed and the locals are lovely. The thing is the western media depicts Russia as some horrible place that is run down etc.
Russia do the same though they only show south US and gun violence in US on the news to make it look like that is what it’s like.
All the bug countries seem to do it.
Anyway any country that holds a WC will make sure it’s perfect as it’s the biggest event in the world and will either make the country look good or extremely bad. So the leaders will be well prepared
 
432JuanMata said:
I defend Qatar as you can see above but it says 6500 people have died in work. They have 2.8m people for example I live in Ireland and we have 4.9m and we have had 457 in that time. It’s getting thrown around by a lot of UK papers but I don’t see a source
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The conditions all over the middle east are horrible for South Asian laborers. Qatar has done more than any other country in the gulf by introducing minimum wage and food allowance. The article states 6500 deaths, not pointing out a cause - and not saying these are work related.
 
snk123 said:
The conditions all over the middle east are horrible for South Asian laborers. Qatar has done more than any other country in the gulf by introducing minimum wage and food allowance. The article states 6500 deaths, not pointing out a cause - and not saying these are work related.
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No I agree Qatar is very developed for the Middle East and is head and shoulders above the rest in rights etc. I googled it and most say due to heat conditions. Now I know Qater has the highest recorded ever temp of 72c and is actually one of the hottest in the world, hence why it’s in winter. Anyway I think it will good, also if you go to any country for a WC doesn’t matter the country it is probably the safest place to be as the security is immense due to the amount of publicity
 
How about talking about the actual sporting event?

Who do you guys fancy will win it?
 
snk123 said:
The conditions all over the middle east are horrible for South Asian laborers. Qatar has done more than any other country in the gulf by introducing minimum wage and food allowance. The article states 6500 deaths, not pointing out a cause - and not saying these are work related.
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They still take away your passport and treat you like a slave. What they have done compared to the other countries doesent matter, its still horrible violations on human rights!
 
432JuanMata said:
For a country in the Middle East they are quite developed so I don’t get the hate. It’s just a thing with the media in Europe/US that likes to shit on these countries. Remember the big build up to Russia 2018 ? Then everything was fine
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The point isn't that these tournaments will be unsafe.... Authoritarian regimes can probably guarantee safety for these PR events more than any Western country. It's that one of the biggest sporting competitions in the world is being used for "sports washing", because some FIFA board was corrupt.
 
do.ob said:
The point isn't that these tournaments will be unsafe.... Authoritarian regimes can probably guarantee safety for these PR events more than any Western country. It's that one of the biggest sporting competitions in the world is being used for "sports washing", because some FIFA board was corrupt.
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No, the point is that they require huge infrastructure investments which is built by workers who die in large numbers due to appalling working conditions. As a direct result of getting the tournament, without which that infrastructure would not have been built. Also, the corrupting of the sport through the role of bribery in the awarding process. Also, the use of the World Cup's prestige to whitewash authoritarian regimes. Also, the fact the place is blatantly unfit as a venue for the tournament due to weather conditions.
 
justsomebloke said:
No, the point is that they require huge infrastructure investments which is built by workers who die in large numbers due to appalling working conditions. As a direct result of getting the tournament, without which that infrastructure would not have been built. Also, the corrupting of the sport through the role of bribery in the awarding process. Also, the use of the World Cup's prestige to whitewash authoritarian regimes. Also, the fact the place is blatantly unfit as a venue for the tournament due to weather conditions.
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I was talking about selling these tournaments to countries like Russia or Qatar in general, because as far as I know worker conditions and the insanity of building World Cup quality stadiums in the desert are specific to the 22 edition.
 
It's incredibly easy for people in the West to lose sight of just how arrogant & self righteous we must appear to other countries. Lecturing about working conditions from countries who send their troops in to conflicts that have nothing to do with them, killing their own innocent citizens and those they attack, because 'we know better' and arbitrarily decide on a side to support in a conflict we have no right to be getting involved in. They see young girls, barely dressed, throwing up in the streets on a regular basis because they've drunk too much, against a backdrop of TV shows full of sex, nudity and swearing, in countries lecturing them about how to behave 'properly'. We tell other countries how they must become democracies, like our governments' behaviour is somehow setting a good example. Who the f*** are we to tell them how to behave or not behave. However as it happens, if people truly want these countries to change, if that really is what you're concerned about, then the most likely route to that happening is integration, not shunning. All the evidence suggests that when we (the west) open our doors to other cultures/countries and they do the same in return, they change to fit in with us more than we do for them. Be it food, TV, clothing, music, whatever - the middle east is taking up western trends, not the other way round. You can argue that having the world cup is somehow 'endorsing' their behaviour - I'd suggest they will change their ways more quickly as hosts of the WC than if they weren't.

Don't get me wrong, I too am upset to see the human rights records of Qatar and others. But I think the approach many take is just self righteous nonsense
 
If teams get to the last 8 would they be in the Qatar Finals?
 
jontheblue said:
It's incredibly easy for people in the West to lose sight of just how arrogant & self righteous we must appear to other countries. Lecturing about working conditions from countries who send their troops in to conflicts that have nothing to do with them, killing their own innocent citizens and those they attack, because 'we know better' and arbitrarily decide on a side to support in a conflict we have no right to be getting involved in. They see young girls, barely dressed, throwing up in the streets on a regular basis because they've drunk too much, against a backdrop of TV shows full of sex, nudity and swearing, in countries lecturing them about how to behave 'properly'. We tell other countries how they must become democracies, like our governments' behaviour is somehow setting a good example. Who the f*** are we to tell them how to behave or not behave. However as it happens, if people truly want these countries to change, if that really is what you're concerned about, then the most likely route to that happening is integration, not shunning. All the evidence suggests that when we (the west) open our doors to other cultures/countries and they do the same in return, they change to fit in with us more than we do for them. Be it food, TV, clothing, music, whatever - the middle east is taking up western trends, not the other way round. You can argue that having the world cup is somehow 'endorsing' their behaviour - I'd suggest they will change their ways more quickly as hosts of the WC than if they weren't.

Don't get me wrong, I too am upset to see the human rights records of Qatar and others. But I think the approach many take is just self righteous nonsense
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That amounts to saying you shouldn't criticise something because there's just badness everywhere. Which is complete rubbish. Young girls throwing up on the street because they're drunk is trivial. What we're talking about here isn't. Also nonsensical is the idea that if everyone can just get on doing what they do without interference, they'll eventually change their ways. This line of argument is a logical and ethical cul-de-sac, can only obscure the issues that matters most and is generally a red herring. If it was Sweden or Switzerland doing what Qatar does, there'd be just as much reason to criticise it.
 
432JuanMata said:
No I agree Qatar is very developed for the Middle East and is head and shoulders above the rest in rights etc. I googled it and most say due to heat conditions. Now I know Qater has the highest recorded ever temp of 72c and is actually one of the hottest in the world, hence why it’s in winter. Anyway I think it will good, also if you go to any country for a WC doesn’t matter the country it is probably the safest place to be as the security is immense due to the amount of publicity
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72 Celsius? I’ve experienced 124 F, but I can’t imagine what 161 F (72C) do to a mammal.
 
jontheblue said:
It's incredibly easy for people in the West to lose sight of just how arrogant & self righteous we must appear to other countries. Lecturing about working conditions from countries who send their troops in to conflicts that have nothing to do with them, killing their own innocent citizens and those they attack, because 'we know better' and arbitrarily decide on a side to support in a conflict we have no right to be getting involved in. They see young girls, barely dressed, throwing up in the streets on a regular basis because they've drunk too much, against a backdrop of TV shows full of sex, nudity and swearing, in countries lecturing them about how to behave 'properly'. We tell other countries how they must become democracies, like our governments' behaviour is somehow setting a good example. Who the f*** are we to tell them how to behave or not behave. However as it happens, if people truly want these countries to change, if that really is what you're concerned about, then the most likely route to that happening is integration, not shunning. All the evidence suggests that when we (the west) open our doors to other cultures/countries and they do the same in return, they change to fit in with us more than we do for them. Be it food, TV, clothing, music, whatever - the middle east is taking up western trends, not the other way round. You can argue that having the world cup is somehow 'endorsing' their behaviour - I'd suggest they will change their ways more quickly as hosts of the WC than if they weren't.

Don't get me wrong, I too am upset to see the human rights records of Qatar and others. But I think the approach many take is just self righteous nonsense
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The goverments that invade other countries are not the same people who object to the Qatar World Cup. "Young girls" dressing like they want or drinking alcohol is not the same as people dying, because they are forced to work in (near) slave labour. (serious comparison???). Neither is nudity on TV. And opening up dialogues is something else entirely than selling out a World Cup, so these countries can build stadiums that no one needs, killing thousands of workers in the progress, so they look good on TV.
 
laughable with anyone defending world cup in qatar. Not even counting the clear bribery they did to get that. Cant wait for that summer world cup we were promised, along with those state of the art open air stadiums that would somehow cool down the temps for those playing. Oh wait...every promise they made during their bid process was a lie? Shocker. Get the fudge out of here with all this crap defending qatar. Hopefully less migrant workers die when they have to tear down these decrepit stadiums when they go unused right after this farce is over
 
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