mitchmouse
loves to hate United.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2014
- Messages
- 18,068
Moyes was given about one season too long. Never right for the club, never good enough. His sole qualification seemed to be his was Scottish!
What difference does it make if its their first season or 3rd season, if a manager is failing badly then you get rid of them. Sentiment doesn't come into it the club is bigger than any one person. Mourinho, Van Gaal and Ron Atkinson had all won trophies and done more for United than Moyes did yet they still got sacked. Why should the club go out of it's way to give special treatment to Moyes?
How exactly could it have got worse mate?
We already had 31 points by Xmas, 30, 32 and 33 points got you relegated that season so i don't think we were going to lose 19-20 league games in a row.
It was taken into consideration though, and it was deemed to be below minimum standards. Hence the clause in his contract that allowed the club to terminate his employment if he failed to qualify for the CL.
Mate you said in one of your posts yesterday that if there was a clause in his contract that stipulated that CL qualification was the bare minimum then fair enough he deserved to be sacked. But you seem to be arguing against your own point now.
The 6 year contract was nothing more than a PR stunt, it gave Moyes no more protection than a 12 month contract would have done. Moyes willingly signed a contract with a minimum expected performance clause, he failed to meet that goal and he was subsequently sacked. He or no one else can really say he was hard done by.
Taibi signed at the end of August 1999 on a 5 year deal, shipped back to Italy in January 2000. Costing the club £2-3m in the process. Fergie was ruthless back then, got rid of Bosnich after a year as well.
Feck me you're hard work, you're the one who keeps bringing Xmas up, and if you can't tell the difference between sacking somebody with the ink still wet on a 6 year contract after only 4 months, sacking somebody in his third season who had been trying to get himself sacked for nearly a year, and a third guy who was in his 5th season and had the team in 19th place in the League at the time of his sacking I really can't help you.
Yes Mourinho and van Gaal did win trophies but compared to David Moyes they were allowed to shop at Harrods whilst Moyes shopped literately at the corner shop, and why should David Moyes get special treatment, oh I don't know, maybe because he unlike the other two was replacing one of the greatest Managers of all time who had been in office for 27 years and having the obvious problems that whoever replaced him would have.
How could it have got worse, seriously, surely if we'd finished 8th, 9th or lower, and we might have done if Ryan Giggs had come in earlier, it would've been worse than finishing 7th, no, and why you're mentioning points and being safe from relegation is beyond me.
I'm not arguing against my own point at all, this for the record is what I said: As i've said previously if he'd been given a 3 year contract and it was written in said contract that top four was the bare-minimum than fair enough, sack him, but because we gave him a 6 year contract it suggested the club felt, despite being reigning Champions, we needed a major overhaul of the squad, certainly the defence anyway(5 years on we still do) and would cut him some slack in his first year at least if we missed out on top four.
You're stretching it a bit with Taibi, he was brought in as cover(at some expense granted) for Bosnich and Rai van der Gouw who were both injured at the time, but he was never brought in to be a replacement for Big Pete, and yeah we took a hit on him when we sold him 20 months later, but selling him back to Italy we were always going to. And finally(a dark room awaits me), if SAF could have got Bosnich out the door sooner he would've done, the guy was taking the piss.
Did he feck alienate most of the senior players, some, and we all know who they were started taking liberties, and undermined the Manager, as if he he didn't have enough on his plate.
Feck me you're hard work, you're the one who keeps bringing Xmas up, and if you can't tell the difference between sacking somebody with the ink still wet on a 6 year contract after only 4 months, sacking somebody in his third season who had been trying to get himself sacked for nearly a year, and a third guy who was in his 5th season and had the team in 19th place in the League at the time of his sacking I really can't help you.
Yes Mourinho and van Gaal did win trophies but compared to David Moyes they were allowed to shop at Harrods whilst Moyes shopped literately at the corner shop, and why should David Moyes get special treatment, oh I don't know, maybe because he unlike the other two was replacing one of the greatest Managers of all time who had been in office for 27 years and having the obvious problems that whoever replaced him would have.
How could it have got worse, seriously, surely if we'd finished 8th, 9th or lower, and we might have done if Ryan Giggs had come in earlier, it would've been worse than finishing 7th, no, and why you're mentioning points and being safe from relegation is beyond me.
I'm not arguing against my own point at all, this for the record is what I said: As i've said previously if he'd been given a 3 year contract and it was written in said contract that top four was the bare-minimum than fair enough, sack him, but because we gave him a 6 year contract it suggested the club felt, despite being reigning Champions, we needed a major overhaul of the squad, certainly the defence anyway(5 years on we still do) and would cut him some slack in his first year at least if we missed out on top four.
You're stretching it a bit with Taibi, he was brought in as cover(at some expense granted) for Bosnich and Rai van der Gouw who were both injured at the time, but he was never brought in to be a replacement for Big Pete, and yeah we took a hit on him when we sold him 20 months later, but selling him back to Italy we were always going to. And finally(a dark room awaits me), if SAF could have got Bosnich out the door sooner he would've done, the guy was taking the piss.
Had Moyes been given another year it would have been better than him being sacked and LvG being brought in instead as Moyes would have had learned a ton what he did wrong and built on that.
The difference is irrelevant though mate, if they're failing they're failing the length of time they've been at the club is largely irrelevant. Unless they've been at the club for 5-10+ years and brought loads of success. I brought up sacking him before Xmas because we didn't when every other top club would have, so as i said he already got more time than he should have.
Same money was available to Moyes but he didn't prepare for the transfer window properly instead taking a 6 week holiday. And so had no realistic targets in place to sign and then he dithered too long on those unrealistic targets.
So because the manager he replaced was the greatest of all time they should have let Moyes fail for longer. Makes no sense to me mate to be honest.
I mention it because thats the only way the season could have got worse. Theres no difference to finishing 7th or 17th, no European football and you don't get relegated. Slight difference in prize money is about it.
Mate you seem to be missing the point here and contradicting yourself. The club put a minimum performance clause in his contract for a reason and one which Moyes signed willingly. The performance clause was for each and every single season, in the first season Moyes failed to meet that bare minimum requirement. So he got sacked as he and the club agreed that he would do in the event of him not qualifying for the CL. In that scenario how many years there were left on his contract to run was irrelevant, he could have had a 3, 6, 10 or 20 year contract and still been rightfully sacked.
Do you think they just put that clause in for a laugh?
Thats actually not right mate we sold him to Reggina in July 2000. He was bought to be first choice or at least to compete with Bosnich to be 1st choice. Because as you point out and is fairly well known Ferguson didn't fancy Bosnich who was more a Martin Edwards signing. So bought in August, plays 4 games shipped back to Italy on loan in January and permanent in July. Less than a year, thats a perfect example of Ferguson's ruthlessness back then.
Absolutely embarrassing sentiments form Big Pete.
He should never of got the job and from all the reports since we wanted anyone but him. Klopp refused the job, Fergie met Pep and things were lost in translation apparently so he never was made an offer.
He ripped the heart out of the club on his first day by sacking all the back room staff and it was only ever going to get worse from there. Personally I wanted rid of him completely by Oct of that year after our 1-0 loss at home to Everton.
What is it with ex United players and punditry lately... Pete and Ince are coming out with some mind boggling statements.
Way to cherry pick a single point from my post and ignore everything else.
Most of the everton players came out in the press saying negative things about him. The very same players who played for him for a long period of time. Also it's a sign of a bad manager if players start undermining you. It's not like Moyes did anything revolutionary to solve it either. He kept playing the same players instead of binning them off if they were undermining him.
Give up mate. His entire managerial career shows he's an average manager who may do well when everything goes right for him but that's seldom the case in the real world. We would have become proper mid table if that clown was here for 6 years.
Regarding the bolded bit: don't think the club ever felt that considering he had a top 4 minimum clause in his contract. Most on here at the time accepted we won't challenge for the title but would most definitely make top 4 with the quality we had. Stop projecting your opinion as a fact.
And he didn't just miss out on top 4. Your point would hold more weight if we were at least challenging for top 4. We finished 15 points away from top 4. That's simply not acceptable.
I've got my research team on it, and they leave no stone unturned trust me, but so far not one, not even one instance of a so called top club giving their Manager a six year contract and then binning him(or her)off after 4 months.
Oh it's 6 weeks now is it, he didn't get the job till 1st July, and we were on tour in the 2nd week in July, and i'm pretty sure Moyes was with them
If memory serves it was Ryan Giggs that fecked us up for European football, if we'd not lost to mighty Sunderland at home, ad/or drawn our last match of the season we'd have qualified for the Europa League.
Must google contradict
Be funny if they did wouldn't it, hilarious in fact.
You could be right about Taibi, I thought it dragged on a lot longer, I know he spent most of the 1999/00 season on loan at Reggina but although they wanted him they couldn't afford him, and remember one of the bigger teams(Roma or Torino)tried to sign him on the cheap but United told them to sod off and so Taibi started the next season back at United. Think Reggina newbies in Serie A smashed their transfer record to sign him.
There wasn't anything else worthy of picking up on as unlike yourself I don't waste too much time noting, or caring how other clubs do season to season, but as you brought it to my attention, there was always a good chance that the new Manager(Martinez ?)taking over a well-drilled experienced Premier League team minus only one player(whose name escapes me, think he's playing in China now!!)and able to add James McCarthy(for decent money, for Everton), and bring Gareth Barry, some geezer called Lukaku, and Deulofeu in on loan they were going to do well.....
Apart from Sheedy, great player but what the feck has he achieved in the game since he retired, criticising(sp) Moyes I haven't seen much else coming out of Everton, or maybe I didn't pay much attention because I didn't really care, and that(with Sheedy) was more to do with him(Moyes) ignoring advice(apparently)about young player not getting their chance with the first team.
What was Moyes supposed to do, the players that gave him most grief were binned the next year....
And no i'm not giving up mate, as a United fan for nearly 50 years now I was fecking embarrassed at how the club handled the David Moyes, and LvG sackings, whether getting rid of them was the right thing to do or not.
Bullet points love it
You're still hung up on the 6 year contract mate, it was a PR stunt obviously as it didn't save him from the sack.
No other club with any sense would be stupid enough to give a manager anything more than a 3-4 year deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/19747531
Moyes was appointed on the 9th of May 2013, Mourinho was appointed on the 27th of May 2016. Jose didn't ''officially'' take over until July 1st either but it didn't stop him working on Transfers before then. Note the dates.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36480527
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36689575
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36726880
Thats what Moyes should have been working on instead of his tan, especially not with his complexion.
So it's Giggs fault we didn't qualify for Europe because he managed us for 4 games, and not the guy who was in charge for the previous 34 games? Come on mate you're better than that.
You do that, Google being evasive too
It would be but i don't imagine these business types have much of a sense of humour when it comes to these multi million pound contracts. They take that shit seriously, 48 hours after the Everton defeat Moyes locker and office were cleared out and he was on his way.
Some things never change, tight bastards.
So Moyes gets credit for Martinez's success because his team was well drilled. But he doesn't get any of the blame for taking over reigning champions and giving us our worst finish in 25+ years or so?
Also I agree with your point about the manner of the sacking. Leaking it to the press before the manager even knew (in LVGs case) showed poor form. But I don't disagree with the sackings in all three cases.
And yes, once it was obvious that top 4 wasn't plain sailing, club should have put in work to get a director of football instead of throwing money at the problem. Woodward should get a lot of blame for that as well as mindlessly chasing star players without a plan.
Don't take comments like that out of context making it sound like it was my opinion. Have a read over again what I said. I was only trying to understand what Schmeichel meant by his comments.My friend.
WTF!!!
Moyes should've been sacked in August. Then in Sept. Then Oct. He is/was dreadful.
He should never have been given the job and I doubt any sane football fan would argue otherwise. His level is a team right at the bottom of the league table.
He must've thought that he'd won the lottery, 10 times over, when Fergie told him that he was going to get the job.
If I could take some of LVG and Mourinho's time away and give Moyes another half a season to see how hes doing before getting rid, I would do so. He got short changed compared to the other 2 both in terms of finances and time.
That said I don't think we'd be talking about a premier league winning manager. At best he would have done as LVG and Mourinho did.
Hallelujah.
It would have been the classier thing to give him till at least Christmas to see if with a full pre-season, a chance to weed out those that were harming the club for selfish reasons, and sign more players of his choice he could've turned it around.
“Classier”? No, it would have been a stubborn refusal to admit a mistake, leaving the club and its management open to further ridicule. I can’t prove a negative but, based on everyhing we know about Moyes at Everton, Real Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham (as well as the disastrous 9 months at United), he was not going to transform into a title challenging manager, no matter how much money you make available to him and how much time you afford him. He’s just not at that level. There’s no shame in that (relatively speaking, he’s still better than a lot of managers) but he had no place managing the biggest club in England.
You spoilt little Princess
Did you think when SAF finished 11th in his 2nd full season, or 13th in his 3rd full season(after signing Gary Pallister, Paul Ince, Neil Webb and Danny Wallace) he should have been given more time ?
Why are some of our legends so clueless at times ? Whether it's him, Keane, Neville, at times they say some ridiculous stuff
Just went back and had a look at that season, result was right but it was on 4th Dec 2013.
Far from spoiled, it was realistic.
He was never the right appointment ever, but being as he was made manager he deserved a shot. Thing is on day 1 he shot himself in the foot and put the club on the road to ruin. Everything that followed was a disaster and you can say December was far too early but in reality we'd already had some absolutely horrendous results.
A bore draw with Chelsea, Lost to Liverpool, smashed 4-1 by City, lost at home to WBA for the first time in I think it was 30 years approx, Drew at home with Southampton and drew with Cardiff.
It was an absolute horror show, only got worse after those games as well cause right after that game we lost at home to Newcastle as well!
Arguably one of footballs worst decisions at a top European club.
You're actually comparing Moyes to Ferguson??
Ferguson who broke the dominance of the Old Firm and was successful with Aberdeen. Ferguson won 11 trophies in Scotland, What in the blue hell had Moyes done?
The only comparison with the 2 is they are both Scottish and shout a lot.
The end.
Absolutely disgusting to disparage Feruson's name by comparing Moyes in anyway to him.
And you think giving him 4 months is giving him a shot, feck me sideways he probably hadn't even found the best crapper in the building by then
A bore draw with Chelsea is a better result than we often got against them with SAF in charge, and i'm sure you remember Torres giving Vidic the runaround for a few season as the micks often beat us home and away, and didn't City dick us 1-6 on our own patch when we were going for the title, or did I just imagine that ?
Yep we did lose to quite a few teams that hadn't won at Old Trafford for yonks, if at all, but it was better to get them all out of the way in one poor season because eventually they were all going to win there, or would you rather one or two of them did it the following season(s) when we may have been going for the Title ?
4 months was too much, he should never of been given the job anyway.
Sacking the backroom staff that made the club successful, he was on the road to ruin immediately.
The thing you are missing with all those results is, its the accumulation of them. It's not any one individual result but the collective. Ferguson had his freak results, like Southampton smashing us 6-3 at the Dell but they were few and far between. City 6-1 was exaggerated due to an early red, the game was 2-1 at that point and we just imploded and the scoreline flattered City.
With Moyes we routinely lost to the weaker sides and got smashed by other big teams too.
I mean, wasn't it the first season in PL history where we lost all 4 games to both City and Liverpool? Sackable offence in itself.
There was nothing to be better about it happening in a season, it shouldn't of happened at all and no we were never going to even challenge for a league with Moyes in any year!
Can't believe anyone could even attempt to defend the horror show that was Moyes led United.