I need a picture of your head.
Have we significantly improved since we got rid of LVG?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
I need a picture of your head.
To be honest, we have improved but the question should be have we improved enough?
Yes. Yes we have.
For me we play better football under Jose than we did under LVG, well at least until the Derby game earlier in the month.
If you look at last season we hammered so many teams at Old Trafford but ended up drawing but I enjoyed watching the games.
The majority of games we drew (Anfield and City away being the exceptions) we were buy far the better team and created some good chances.
This season up until the derby whilst it was not always great football it was for me a hell of a lot better than the crud served up under LVG.
That second half (today)was painful to watch, the players looked like they didn't care. I have never seen a performance that bad!
Under LVG and I dare even say under Moyes the players always looked like they were playing for the manager but we were either not good enough or just playing awful football and not sure what they were meant to be doing.
I am starting really to fear for Jose. Seeing him come off at the end he looked in shock, the players were really poor and that stops with the manager.
I feel the next couple of months are HUGE for Jose. Get some good performances in and it will all be good...keep playing the way we are and it could get very messy very quick.
Hope Jose can sort it.
If you look at last season we hammered so many teams at Old Trafford but ended up drawing but I enjoyed watching the games.
The majority of games we drew (Anfield and City away being the exceptions) we were buy far the better team and created some good chances.
This season up until the derby whilst it was not always great football it was for me a hell of a lot better than the crud served up under LVG.
That second half (today)was painful to watch, the players looked like they didn't care. I have never seen a performance that bad!
Under LVG and I dare even say under Moyes the players always looked like they were playing for the manager but we were either not good enough or just playing awful football and not sure what they were meant to be doing.
I am starting really to fear for Jose. Seeing him come off at the end he looked in shock, the players were really poor and that stops with the manager.
I feel the next couple of months are HUGE for Jose. Get some good performances in and it will all be good...keep playing the way we are and it could get very messy very quick.
Hope Jose can sort it.
How gleeful are you tonight, on a scale of 1 to absolutely fecking giddy?
We had at the early stages of the season. For about one third of the season I thought we were on the right track. Now we have reverted back to our absolutely clueless worst, it's almost as if Moyes is back in charge.
Yeah, it’s barn door obvious we’ve improved. The last few results have been a worry though. Not too arsed about our fringe players losing to a buoyant Championship team in the cup but the last three PL results (and tonight’s performance) have been unacceptable. Takes away whatever confidence I had in a decent CL run, that’s for sure.
There are things i liked under LvG and things i didnt but if really people think that this is worse then under LvG, oh boy, goldfish mode fully on. Only difference for me is that under LvG it was on purpose like how it was, it was his way, this tho is not.
And yet of the 5 league games, you haven't lost any, and all the goals conceded along the way were silly mistakes or individual brilliance by the opposition (Defour's FK).
Like I said in another thread, by contrast you guys used to get outplayed and beaten at OT by Swansea, Norwich, West Brom etc, that's why I have to laugh when fans say you're the same side you were a couple of years ago.
We're better at almost everything, in a completely different league. We score more goals, look more solid at the back, have better players.
Even the shitshow of a game today was much much better than the LvG lowpoints (of which there were many), like Wolfsburg or Norwich at home.
Even the shitshow of a game today was much much better than the LvG lowpoints (of which there were many), like Wolfsburg or Norwich at home.
Clearly we have. I think some people have short memories. The last run of games, we've missed big chances and not got decisions. Two games teams scored in the last minute. One when we were exploited at the back because of smalling struggling. It's amazing to me that people are even asking the question. With LVG we often went halves passing backwards. We know we need to get rid of some players and improve the squad and it will take time since we don't have others unlimited budget. United under LVG, were so bad teams from lower divisions created chances against us at will and DE Gea was voted our best player (under LVGs tenure) twice.
BUT even when you win the league, you won't play well every game and that's when luck, endeavor etc come into it. Many of the games we've dropped points in, we could and probably should have done better. Today we were denied a clear penalty.....what can you do when officials turn a blind eye to cheating? What can you do? They will tell you it all evens itself out? It's complete crap. We rely on many young players in key areas and the experienced players have to help them. If we win 1-0 no one cares...but people look at these runs and forget how different it could have been.
BUT even when you win the league, you won't play well every game and that's when luck, endeavor etc come into it. Many of the games we've dropped points in, we could and probably should have done better. Today we were denied a clear penalty.....what can you do when officials turn a blind eye to cheating? What can you do? They will tell you it all evens itself out? It's complete crap. We rely on many young players in key areas and the experienced players have to help them. If we win 1-0 no one cares...but people look at these runs and forget how different it could have been.
yep agreed. It is worrying now. Not sure what it is but it seems a combination of things recently. City result didn't help obviously...and Mourinho then talking about big historic clubs doesn't mean great players and more money is therefore needed (which admittedly is not a wrong thing to say) probably hasn't helped morale within the team. I'm worried that the damage is done for now and that we should expect pretty similar performances for a while....
We looked like we'd improved until that game at Anfield, which completely killed our good run of form and confidence. We haven't looked impressive at all ever since, despite some good results here and there.
Of course we have, in a lot of areas. The problem is that we need to improve our first team players in almost every position if we want to win major trophies again. To do that we need to buy the best players in the world either future or current, that's simply not something that can be achieved in one or even four transfer windows. What we can't do is set a benchmark (let's say top 3), then fall below it
Bearing in mind the majority of his last season at home we'd have about 2 shots on target maximum per game, and scored an all time low goals, I don't think even with the emotion of a poor 0-0 today this is even remotely in doubt.
Less glorious when he tried to use Schweinsteiger as an attacking mid away at Arsenal and saw us 3-0 down after about 15mins.
That was shite yeah. Don't know what Carrick was doing that game (more than BFS who was actually trying to compete with Arsenal) but never the less.
He must have had ideas a Chelsea first time round, or Real Madrid, or do we just put that down to better players?
A real highlight for me being right amongst the Arsenal goons in the end they scored the goals in!
Pretending to love it, but not quite pulling it off anywhere near sincerely funnily enough.
LVG restricted individual performance to try & get us to attack as a team; a hard thing to do & almost a deluded thing to do in assumption of it working perfectly.
Jose has as working as working as individuals with a very basic approach to team orientated attacks.
I reckon there is a reason why Jose has been better for defenses because they can be picked, placed & told to do their defensive jobs individually. It is a much harder things to do when attacking.
Jose has as working as working as individuals with a very basic approach to team orientated attacks.
I reckon there is a reason why Jose has been better for defenses because they can be picked, placed & told to do their defensive jobs individually. It is a much harder things to do when attacking.
This season will be his third.
We're a better team with better players. The problem is that Jose seems to be an all or nothing type manager. It's either brilliant or shit. Right now it's shit and unless he motivates this team to play properly again, he'll be out the door. Plus his style is pragmatism over entertainment which means he needs to win to justify it.
You can't just stop taking the league seriously because you can't win it. You keep going. Last season was forgivable because the EL made more sense on balance. This season to lose focus in the PL would be a sackable offense.
Hopefully it improves, as a proper Mourinho team would see us win the title (given another window). That requires a proper Mourinho first and we've yet to see it.
I would wait for another two to three matches before drawing any verdict. Against Leicester, i believe we were unlucky and stupid for missing easy chances. Against Burnley we had one of those days where the opposition had everything going for him. Early goal then weathering the storm then another amazing goal. However we came back and showed character. Today, however was bemusing and for the first time made me very angry.
In Moyes and Van gaal Era i started hating football and routinely skipped matches if it conflicted with other plans. However during Mourinho Era and during SAF, my plans circle around Utd's matches. Therefore, i would wait another two to three weeks and if the results continue only then i would go into that stage and until now it has not so for me at least we are still doing better.
In Moyes and Van gaal Era i started hating football and routinely skipped matches if it conflicted with other plans. However during Mourinho Era and during SAF, my plans circle around Utd's matches. Therefore, i would wait another two to three weeks and if the results continue only then i would go into that stage and until now it has not so for me at least we are still doing better.
Its simple and doesnt have much to do with manager. We need about 5-6 new players ASAP.
Bingo - all he had to do was change what LVG did wrong and add some dynamism. Instead he went for his tried & tested methods that I personally don't think works anymore.
He should have looked at the squad & realised that the most important players in our squad suit the 352 & find the best players for that formation. Instead he went & bought Chelsea v2 players for 4231.
It took him near 3 months to utilise Lingard at Am; which made us dynamic especially when playing 352. Likewise took him sometimes to get wingbacks to play which again added some dynamism in to our attack. Little things like playing a ball playing defender shielded by 2 CB's is the type of football that will give us a foundation to improve on game by game but no the guy plays 3 defenders with a sweeper instead.
He either believes in himself too much or too scared to try out something new/something that was obvious that could be built upon.
Of course we have. In every department bar the fowardline. The sane forwardline that cost LVG his job. Its time to fully invest in it
We're much better. I expected nothing when LvG was in charge, and I expect us to win now. I certainly never expect us to lose, and we rarely do.
That said, we look like a relegation battling team who've had a new manager brought in mid season to make us solid. Where is the shape? Where are the ideas? Where is the direction? Say what you want about Pep, about Klopp, about half the managers in this league - you can usually see what the team is trying to achieve. With us, what is it?! Our best player is a water carrier for our fullbacks when they eventually push up - that's presumably our only plan. Get it wide and cross to our one attacker. It's like primary school football... "Give it to Martial, he can dribble".
Mourinho teams have traditionally been full of quality (which overcomes the lesser teams) and are setup expertly to disrupt big teams and knock them off their stride. There's never been an obvious trait, apart from his determination and enthusiasm, which players clearly responded to. Now? I'm not sure what he's bringing..
That said, we look like a relegation battling team who've had a new manager brought in mid season to make us solid. Where is the shape? Where are the ideas? Where is the direction? Say what you want about Pep, about Klopp, about half the managers in this league - you can usually see what the team is trying to achieve. With us, what is it?! Our best player is a water carrier for our fullbacks when they eventually push up - that's presumably our only plan. Get it wide and cross to our one attacker. It's like primary school football... "Give it to Martial, he can dribble".
Mourinho teams have traditionally been full of quality (which overcomes the lesser teams) and are setup expertly to disrupt big teams and knock them off their stride. There's never been an obvious trait, apart from his determination and enthusiasm, which players clearly responded to. Now? I'm not sure what he's bringing..
We have, but nowhere significant enough to warrant the 300m pounds that Mourinho spent.
The team is not the same offensively. Jose had added Pogba (who is regarded as a creative genius on here), Mkhi - player of tne season in the Bundesliga, and Lukaku. They have cost 200m.
Mom I would say it’s been an acumilation of really poor football and drab results since he rocked up at United. I mean if 18 months is knee jerk then wow.
Shut up fat man. At least LvG was good for pressers.
Yes but not enough.
Mhikitaryan has frankly been shit when needed most. And Pogba isn't an attacker. We can literally class him as Carrick's replacement in terms of attacking passing.
Our attack still consists of 3 potentially world class youngsters, the still inconsistent Mata, the 'Depay/ADM' in Mhikitaryan, who is talented but flattering to deceive and deceiving into flattery, plus the good but not great lingard who is the "ashley young' of Mourinho. Plus a returned from injury 36 year old who currently is no different from the Rooney under LVG or Falcao. So yes. Our attack is still in the same state it was under LVG. Till we invest in proven world class in that department bass will change, no matter how often we change managers.
That is in not the way to measure whether we have improved as a team.
What were the problem we had under Moyes and LvG for you? Have we fixed that or at least improved on that?
For me the big problems were we stopped playing as a team, there was no movement, no quick incisive one touch passing to open up teams. I've seen absolutely no improvement in any of these things. We are basically dependent on individual moments of brilliance rather than playing as a team. Every player takes a touch then searches for the teammate and then makes the pass, they don't instinctively know where their teammates are, that prevents quick passing allows opposition to regroup quicker.
Yeah but LVG had Di Maria, RVP, Nani etc. We seriously lack Di Maria type of wingers right now.
Yes, but we were tragic under LvG so that isn't saying much.
Only Di Maria was decent at that point. RVP and Nani have shown later that they were done.
For me - not enough. Lvg wouldn't have got it right but I enjoyed all the kids he was playing and the path we were on. To move to ultra defensive football after just spending 100s of millions of possession players and blooding 15 youth team players seemed like a move out of fear of city.
Dont get fooled by recency bias. We are much improved.
Every attacking player looked like they were done under LVG due to extremely rigid possession in our own half based football.