Whatever formations we play it won't be effective if our players do not play as a unit and with desire. We keep relying on individuals to create something when we really should be playing as a team. It's really as simple as that. You look at the way City or Chelsea attacked yesterday; every player supports each other, they make runs and trust the man on the ball to try the pass. What our players do is just stand around looking at the man with the ball who then takes ages to decide what he wants to do.
Is it time to settle to a 352?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Ashwin @AR87 are here to discuss two "on-paper" not great results for United over the last week, but are there positive signs of progress despite what the ex-United pundits are saying?
They also preview the big game Europa League game against Lyon.
The whole point of signing Lindelof was so that we could play this formation. Mourinho made a big mistake there.
Was it?
I hate this system by the way. Wing backs are so important in the system and we have Valencia and Young in those positions. Just asking for trouble.
I feel your pain. And if you're worried about being overrun in these types of games, drop your #10 and add another midfielder to control the midfield.
Given the current team and lack of world class midfielders, I would go with 3-1-4-2 (when some players are fit)
De Gea
Bailley-Jones-Rojo
Matic
Martial-Pogba-Fellaini-Rashford
Ibra Lukaku
Given our lack of wingers I would use Martial and Rashford for pace on the flanks, Pogba and Fellaini to boss the central midfield and Ibra and Lukaku to give opposition defenders something to think about. Use Matic for what he's best at, sitting in front of the defence and a roaming 4th defender/defensive midfielder who can just disrupt the opposition attacks.
Its an attacking formation, but Im so sick of defensive tactics over attacking football. Give the opposition something to think about for a change.
De Gea
Bailley-Jones-Rojo
Matic
Martial-Pogba-Fellaini-Rashford
Ibra Lukaku
Given our lack of wingers I would use Martial and Rashford for pace on the flanks, Pogba and Fellaini to boss the central midfield and Ibra and Lukaku to give opposition defenders something to think about. Use Matic for what he's best at, sitting in front of the defence and a roaming 4th defender/defensive midfielder who can just disrupt the opposition attacks.
Its an attacking formation, but Im so sick of defensive tactics over attacking football. Give the opposition something to think about for a change.
This ain't Fifa you know.
We'd get slaughtered in the wide areas with Rashford and Martial. All you done is basically just stuck all the attackers on the pitch and hoping something happens.
It's not an attacking formation, it's a suicidal formation. We'd lose every single game using that formation.
So , we will judge every player with 2 months o football?
Correct. Remember de Gea's first few months? Pallister back in the day?
Regardless of the result, I think we look awful when switching to this formation.
Just no.
You almost got it right. Just need another full back in place of Zlatan.
(and a proper left back)
Yeah we do and its not really surprising. It doesn't suit the players we have at all.
We will look even more awful if not.
Bring cameron borthwick-jackson back 
I don't think so. I don't like three centre backs at the best of times. 4-5-1 I can live with. We have Matic and Herrera to protect the centre backs and shouldn't need an extra one.
Why?Bring cameron borthwick-jackson back
In 451 wingers will have defensive duties against wingbacks and the wingbacks almost nullfies them offensively.
Lukaku will be even more isolated like the Liverpool game. 343 has a man adantage in possession and passing option at all times , to deny that advantage you need to set up the same system to balance out .
I feel like José has ditched him without giving him a chance. The clubs he is at he has struggled because he would likely be worse at FB than WB. Just my opinion though not seen him much since he left.
As opposed to what? Lukaka up front with Young...Valencia..Lingard..Mikhi..Jones...Smalling..?
And how did that formation go against Stoke, Huddersfield, Liverpool and Chelsea?
Were losing anyway mate, so how can it get any worse??
Losing where? We lost two games all season so get a grip and we are second. We'd definitely lose with suicidal formations like that.
Ive got a grip. Im merely pointing out whatever formation we play we dont have enough world class players wide or in midfield to support the defence or attack.
Yes weve lost 2 game..and yes its only 11 games in...how foolish of me..
Remind me again oh wise one just how many points we are behind City already?...
At some point you will realise that there is no Fairy Godmother with pixie dust ready to turn this lot into title contenders no matter how much you believe it.
You do know Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy arent real either yeah?
Jeeeezz....
It wasn't the plan was never to play 3 at the back all the time. Mourinho said himself in the summer it will never be his formation he just wanted it as an option for certain matches.
4-2-3-1 was working until Pogba got injured.
Fellaini and Hererra are too one dimensional to play in a midfield 2.
Fellaini and Hererra are too one dimensional to play in a midfield 2.
A back three isn’t just something the players will pick up over night. Remember that most of our defenders will have began playing as part of a back four when they were 8 or 9.
We look utterly shit playing with a 352. fecking diabolical in fact. I wish this fecking system had been left in France with the England team back in World Cup 1998.
We look utterly shit playing with a 352. fecking diabolical in fact. I wish this fecking system had been left in France with the England team back in World Cup 1998.
Bring Pereira back instead.Bring cameron borthwick-jackson back
352 will never work for us because our CBs aren't good enough to bring the ball out of defence. Either that or its Jose's tactics.
The RCB and LCB should be comfortable enough to come out of defence allowing space for the wing backs and midfielders to push forward. What we did was keep our 3 CBs flat just in front of our box meaning the full backs drop deeper. Chelsea smartly pressed our fullbacks in our half and this resulted in lost possession time and again in the second half.
Spurs play the back 3 superbly. Verthongen, Dier and Alderweireld, use of the ball and ability to drive beyond the half way line opens up all kind of space and allows for more options for the pass. Azpilicueta yesterday showed this aswell with his assist for the goal.
The RCB and LCB should be comfortable enough to come out of defence allowing space for the wing backs and midfielders to push forward. What we did was keep our 3 CBs flat just in front of our box meaning the full backs drop deeper. Chelsea smartly pressed our fullbacks in our half and this resulted in lost possession time and again in the second half.
Spurs play the back 3 superbly. Verthongen, Dier and Alderweireld, use of the ball and ability to drive beyond the half way line opens up all kind of space and allows for more options for the pass. Azpilicueta yesterday showed this aswell with his assist for the goal.
Both - hell even TFM could do a job in midfield for us. I always thought he had a relative good attacking ability to stay at the back anyway.
Exactly; José is a bit of a scardey cat to play ball playing defenders.
God no. Our fullbacks are dogshite and playing them as wingbacks will curtail our very little creativity even more. I'd rather see Rashford, Martial et al play wide than Young and Valencia.
I think whatever formation we play, we will struggle without the right personnel. And Pogba being out hurts most of the formations we would look to play.
4231 might be the best bet with Pogba out though.
4231 might be the best bet with Pogba out though.
Actually Smalling played as a ball playing defender under LvG for a whole season and looked pretty decent. Bailly, Rojo and Phil Jones are also capable of doing it. Ball playing defenders are quite important for possession based teams and managers like Lvg, Guardiola see them as an advantage whereas managers like Mourinho, Moyes see them as risky and ask them to clear their lines. Remember when Rio fell out with Moyes because the latter asked him to watch videos of Phil fecking Jagielka. It's all in the hands of the manager. Personally I would like Jones, Bailly et al to take responsibility and play as ball playing CBs and stop hoofing up the ball and keep losing the possession.
No, again.
Looks like every current malaise will be solved by Pogba coming back, we are in for a shock IMO, as I don't think Pogba coming back alone is going to help our players play as a team or pass quicker.
I think a key part is what hes like when he returns and how quickly he can get into the flow (like he was pre-injury).
He brings something our midfield desperately needs and lacks without.
He can play with both feet, ping it long and do quick short passes. And he can run with the ball and eat up yards turning defence into attack. Its something we badly miss for big games.
3-4-1-2 can only succeed if we play Blind in defense and Pogba in midfield. We'll still need a better number 10, though.
I don't like the 3 in the back formations by any means though and they should be only used for certain situations. As a main formation, just no.
I don't like the 3 in the back formations by any means though and they should be only used for certain situations. As a main formation, just no.
That will only work if we play during prior 2000 era. Nowdays are about 4231 means the wingers are likely to contribute in attack more than the wingers in 442 in prior 2000 era. And not to mention the introduce of wingback and attacking fullback can kill that formation as well. We will be exposed by the opposition wingers, wingbacks and attacking full back.
Playing 352/532 is a good idea since we don't have natural wingers but unfortunately we lack of quality wingbacks who can contribute in attack.
Why are valencia & young determined to be better fullbacks than wingbacks by the way?
They are much more natural at being wingbacks due to their natural positions they played before than fullbacks. Problem is no one gets to initiate quick movement of the wingbacks because no one can pass the ball out from the back.
They are much more natural at being wingbacks due to their natural positions they played before than fullbacks. Problem is no one gets to initiate quick movement of the wingbacks because no one can pass the ball out from the back.
Story of the past 10 years, not recruiting on positions, it has become a tiresome trait of our managers not buying enough leaving ourselves short in key positions, we are still short at RB, LB, out wide, its a recurring theme with us
I wonder how we coach players? because its like we do nothing on the training ground by just getting by
Seems a strange formation to play given we have very few players who are suited to the system. Our back 4 is defensively solid, so adding another defender is pointless in a defensive sense and costs us an attacker. Our centre forward likewise is more effective with a player either side of him stretching the play, rather than one person alongside him.
We're much better off with the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 systems we started the season with. It gives us defensive solidarity and with an extra player given attacking responsibilities we would create more.
We're much better off with the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 systems we started the season with. It gives us defensive solidarity and with an extra player given attacking responsibilities we would create more.