Don't mistake delusion for ambition here. If he was ambitious he'd have a season under his belt already, probably somewhere in the Championship. This would give him and everybody else at least a clue about how he works and what he can or could possibly achieve. Instead, it looks like he's afraid of going to the Championship not to get busted as somebody who is and was not fit enough to lead a Premier League club.
Ryan Giggs | Interviewed for Wales job
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Don't mistake delusion for ambition here. If he was ambitious he'd have a season under his belt already, probably somewhere in the Championship. This would give him and everybody else at least a clue about how he works and what he can or could possibly achieve. Instead, it looks like he's afraid of going to the Championship not to get busted as somebody who is and was not fit enough to lead a Premier League club.
We've absolutely no clue if Southampton wants him or not. Southampton is a good job and so for any potential managers not wanting this job would be strange indeed.
Are you for real? He was a great player once, no doubt. But he hasn't by any measure proved himself as a manager to be relied on. Why would players respect him more than a proven manager and which players would choose Southhampton just to play under a once good footballer?
Imo, he needs to prove himself in the lower leagues and if or when he does that, he can be in with a shout for a PL club. Southhampton would be insane to appoint him imo.
You said he is showing too much ambition if he wants to start at Southampton rather than lower club, I think that would be too risky for him.
Btw I don't think Southampton will go for him. They have good knack to picking up good foreign managers.
They're not mutually exclusive though.
This is nonsense. Why should he prove himself in lower leagues? You think all managers proved themselves in lower leagues before taking bigger jobs?
Of btw he will command respect because of the player he was. Players will respect for what he achieved in the game, whether that translates to him being a success or not is completely different story.
I meant his ambitions are a tad too high given his lack of standing as a manager in the game. Unless he has contacts at the top, a club like Southampton will not gamble on him.
Yeah I agree with that. Hopefully Crystal palace appoints him, for some reason I think the way they plays suits him, I mean relying on Wing play.
Agreed. Succeeding at various tiers of club football require a number of different things. It's not as simple as succeed lower and keep moving up.
Would be a great move for Giggs, decent setup and a good side to work with. Unlikely they're going to lose any stars (unless VVD leaves) so he has a strong starting point.
Soton also have a good infrastructure around the manager so he'd get a lot of support which would help.
Would definitely be a punt of an appointment for Soton and a big risk.
I dont blame Giggs for not wanting to go to a Championship club to "prove" himself. He's a big name and would be able to land a PL job at some point, key is getting the right one as it could make or break his managerial career.
Soton also have a good infrastructure around the manager so he'd get a lot of support which would help.
Would definitely be a punt of an appointment for Soton and a big risk.
I dont blame Giggs for not wanting to go to a Championship club to "prove" himself. He's a big name and would be able to land a PL job at some point, key is getting the right one as it could make or break his managerial career.
Exactly. People are so much involved in FM journey man mode it's unreal.
Would be a huge gamble for Southampton to do this, given his lack of managerial experience and admittedly poor record under LVG, for what it's worth.
If he went there I'd predict them to be in a relegation battle for the first 10-15 games, then probably sack him and finish mid table.
If he went there I'd predict them to be in a relegation battle for the first 10-15 games, then probably sack him and finish mid table.
Almost all managers have, yes.
Well, because managing a PL club is a humongous task, that you don't want to give to someone who's never managed before. Giggs might prove to be a good manager, but as I said, I really think he needs to prove himself at a lower level before. Sure, some players might respect him somewhat for what he did as a player, but as soon as the results start going sour, they'll soon forget all about that.
When you put it like this then yeah, agree.
Players will lose hope on even the proven manager when the results are poor.
There are many managers who have landed big jobs without having to manage lower leagues.
Dalglish, Mark Hughes, Hiddink, Jose, AVB, Koeman, Coleman, Magath, Mancini, Van Gaal, Poch, Puel, Klinsmann. Heynckes, Rijkaard, Tito, Pep, Enrique, Valverde, Zidane, Capello, del Bosque.
Quick google search gave me these names who didn't go though all the lower league stuff.
Even SAF started small. Sorry but this tells me what I've suspected for a long time about Giggs: over-inflated ego. Great player, no track record in management and therefore should start small just like about 99% of managers
Giggs is being smart here to be honest. When you are a top retired ex-player, your first job can decide the level of clubs you would be managing in the future or whether you would stay in management for long.
Lets say he moves to a Championship squad or a bottom PL club, and fails to deliver promotion or gets them relegated. He would be labeled not a very good manager and that puts a lot of pressure on him. Roy Keane's management career ended with being at such clubs.
Making decisions in haste can again finish your career in a few months. Look at Gary Neville. Pretty sure his name didn't get mentioned in any board rooms this summer.
Yea, he is being a coward, but that could be beneficial for him in the longer one if he gets to inherit a very good squad like Southampton. At least he would have a head start and would then have to build on it.
Personally, I don't think he will ever be a very good manager.
Lets say he moves to a Championship squad or a bottom PL club, and fails to deliver promotion or gets them relegated. He would be labeled not a very good manager and that puts a lot of pressure on him. Roy Keane's management career ended with being at such clubs.
Making decisions in haste can again finish your career in a few months. Look at Gary Neville. Pretty sure his name didn't get mentioned in any board rooms this summer.
Yea, he is being a coward, but that could be beneficial for him in the longer one if he gets to inherit a very good squad like Southampton. At least he would have a head start and would then have to build on it.
Personally, I don't think he will ever be a very good manager.
Aim high Giggsy, don't listen to the haters. What's the harm talking to them, really? If they don't take him, they don't. What's this rubbish about starting from the bottom and working your way up? You'd try to start from as high as you can, surely.
Football manager journey man save.
Fair enough. I googled most of them too, and it seems to me, that they all started out as youth coaches, b-team coaches, assistants or in small clubs (like De Graafschap). To conclude, they all had some kind of experience before landing a big job, which Southhampton undoubtedly would be.
Giggs might prove me wrong, but if I supported Southhampton, I would find it very weird, if they appointed Giggs.
My posting privileges are limited, so I can't reply anymore today
A lot of thse names are wrong in this context. They either worked as youth coaches and/or were promoted from within the club.
Hiddink was assistant manager at PSV for three years before they promoted him. Same for Magath and Vilanova.
Some of them went through youth teams at their first clubs, Zidane was assman at Madrid then trained RM Castilla for two years, Enrique and Pep trained Barca B, Valverde coached youth teams at Bilbao before being promoted there.
Klinsmann wasn't a typical manager for Germany, he had Löw by his side, who seeemed to be more his equal than his assistant.
Assuming that great players will make great coaches is a thing of the past imho, infact several of the best/most promising coaches never had great playing careers, something which is most apparent in Germany where Klopp, Tuchel and Nagelsmann have zero Bundesliga matches between them iirc.
Taking a route through United's youth teams and assistant staff would be one thing for Giggs, but expecting to be handed a job at a club the size of Southhampton without ever doing anything to deserve it at the very least seems suspect to me.
I'm not going through all your names but Pep certainly managed in a lower division and it was the transformation of Barca B that saw him take the senior job. How many of those people you mention had successful careers as an assistant? You are correct that it does not need to be a pre-requisite to manage in the lower divisions but if you were recruiting a manager would you not want to see some evidence of managerial acumen? I don't think Giggs can offer anything to support an application other than his name and an association with Utd, for me that is not enough for a club like Southampton.
If Giggs get the Southampton job, they will be a surprise team next season. His managerial skills might not great, but his ability to spot talents and understanding of the game will helps him. I still think one day he might end up being United Manager
Who did Giggs recommend against United signing a few years ago? Thiago? Not sure spotting talent is a strong point of his.
Would be a great club for most managers really, but as a new manager you would have to question the wisdom of joining a club that just sacked their last manager for reasons most of us are trying to figure out. Are Southampton due to be taken over as well?
No it's not wrong. We are talking about head coaches so not sure why you talk about xyz being some youth coach or assistant manager. Also being coaches at B team is completely different from being head coach at other clubs where relegation and promotion are for real.
So whatever examples I gave were managers/coaches who didn't go through all the lower league stuff before taking over job at top league. FYI, Giggs was also assistant manager for 2 years under Van Gaal just like Van Gaal, Hiddink, magath were Assistant managers.
Also whether best players will become best coaches or the person without any footballing background depends on the person. Just because Klopp, Tuchel became good managers doesn't mean it's a theory with solid proof. If anything the last CL winning managers are all great/good players. Zidane, Luis Enrique.
If he gets Southampton job then that doesn't mean it's handed to him easily, it means he impressed Southampton bosses in his interview.
Like I said above, managing B team is different from actual club.
Bold part, what a rubbish thing to say. Did you watch Giggs in the training pitch to see what he is capable of? You have never seen the man but somehow sitting far away you think he hasn't showed any evidence to prove his managerial acumen. How does one prove that without ever managing? by talking some hipster words on Sky?
If he lands Southampton or any PL job that means the people who matters are convinced and he did well to convince them.
To be fair I don't think Thiago has been all that great for Bayern. However, we are no where near the level of Bayern as of yet either.
He'd have a lot to prove but would be fun to see him managing a good side like Southampton in the PL.
They'll become my 2nd team if Giggsy is there.
They'll become my 2nd team if Giggsy is there.
Would suit Giggs more than it would suit them! Very good set up for someone who hasn't held a full time management job at any level.
Think they'd be mad to appoint him myself.
Think they'd be mad to appoint him myself.
Just wondering if the same people who think Giggs doesn't need to start at a lower club would say the same for Gerrard. Sentiment is all well and good but he clearly needs a job to build up a reputation and I'm sure a few Championship clubs would be willing to give him the opportunity which he should really take considering the vast majority of new managers spend years working towards a job at that level.
I don't think Thiago is all that. He's usually really underwhelming against the big boys, IMO. Would Mourinho be happy with such a player? I'm not sure, i think the recommendation from Giggsy wasn't a bad one, i know unpopular opinion.
The problem for Giggs could be his off field behaviour. Personally, i'd have trouble respecting him for what he has done to his family.
As assistant?
I hope he goes there for the sheer fact that he'll do his best to suffocate the supply of Saints players to Liverpool.
Manager.
Why doesn't he work at U23 level, graduate to a lower division side and THEN try get a job in the PL.
Just a matter of time until he becomes our manager in my opinion.
Great thing about Jose is he gets the job done first - how we play is relatively secondary. We already saw fans making some noises throughout the season that is covered up by the great results.
The great results will continue but when they start to deriorate; what is left behind is a style of football that does not match a club of United stature.
That's when Giggs is most likely to succeed here - where he has Jose's team of proven winners, has some players who can keep possesion and he previously helped under LVG and finally I think Nicky Butt will be important to us.
Whether previous club players have experience in management or not, it can't be argued that they know the strengths, weaknesses and relative expectations on the football pitch of that particular club better than anybody else.
This is why I was never too worried about Pep at any other club, he lived and breathed Barcelona, a club who always play the same formation - his spell in the youth team would merely give confidence to fans and the directors - I highly doubt it made him a significantly better manager.
Great thing about Jose is he gets the job done first - how we play is relatively secondary. We already saw fans making some noises throughout the season that is covered up by the great results.
The great results will continue but when they start to deriorate; what is left behind is a style of football that does not match a club of United stature.
That's when Giggs is most likely to succeed here - where he has Jose's team of proven winners, has some players who can keep possesion and he previously helped under LVG and finally I think Nicky Butt will be important to us.
Whether previous club players have experience in management or not, it can't be argued that they know the strengths, weaknesses and relative expectations on the football pitch of that particular club better than anybody else.
This is why I was never too worried about Pep at any other club, he lived and breathed Barcelona, a club who always play the same formation - his spell in the youth team would merely give confidence to fans and the directors - I highly doubt it made him a significantly better manager.
Real's and Barca's second teams are swinging back and forth between second and third divisions. Coaching there is literally coaching a lower division club.
Being a youth coach or assistant manager at a club gives bosses the perfect opportunity to assess someone's coaching capabilites from close range.
Hiddink,Magath and van Gaal were assistants at the same club which promoted them to head coach. With Giggs were talking about a job at an unrelated club though.
I also never said that it is a hinderance to have been a great player, just that there are enough example to suggest that the two aren't necessarily connected.
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Even most championship clubs prefer foreign managers lately, so it is becoming very difficult for emerging British coaches/managers to get a breakthrough.
I think Giggs has been patient and is waiting for the right opportunity, rather than taking the 1st job that's offered and realising it wasn't the right fit.
I could see Giggs making a go of it, but this is a club who finished 8th, got to a cup final, repeatedly sell they're best players and still sacked the manager. Doesn't strike me as stable.
He will get a chance somewhere, I don't agree with the logic you have to go lower leagues and work up. The issue is if he done that, and wasn't an instant success he'd be fired then it would be even harder to land another job.
If I was Giggs, I'd avoid Southampton purely because they've been riding they're luck for a few years constantly revamping the squad and that method won't work forever. They've done well for sure, but that logic will backfire eventually
I think Giggs has been patient and is waiting for the right opportunity, rather than taking the 1st job that's offered and realising it wasn't the right fit.
I could see Giggs making a go of it, but this is a club who finished 8th, got to a cup final, repeatedly sell they're best players and still sacked the manager. Doesn't strike me as stable.
He will get a chance somewhere, I don't agree with the logic you have to go lower leagues and work up. The issue is if he done that, and wasn't an instant success he'd be fired then it would be even harder to land another job.
If I was Giggs, I'd avoid Southampton purely because they've been riding they're luck for a few years constantly revamping the squad and that method won't work forever. They've done well for sure, but that logic will backfire eventually
why does he always feel that he is entitled to a job? He must prove himself and potential employers should come to him not the otherway around. His lazyness to work his way up is not something clubs would prefer to see in manager.
Again, we are talking about people who took over big job instead of lower league, so them having as much experience as Assistant manager adds nothing here. Giggs was also Assistant manager at ManUtd under Van Gaal. Being youth coach and managing bunch of youngsters is very much different from managing bunch of grown ups.
Again you are just giving excuses that they were assistant managers at the same club whereas Giggs is from different club. They were given jobs because they convinced the decision makers about their vision, same thing might happen with Giggs but for some reason so much rubbish is posted about him.
No, managing B teams is not exactly like coaching proper clubs where the pressure of promotion and relegation is massive.
Re your last point, I don't even know why you brought it in the first place.
For the last time, coaching young players or behind assistant manager is very much different from being the head coach where you makes all the decisions for the team and manage grown up/superstars and massive egos.