I cannot accept a United XI without Cristiano Ronaldo. Giggs is a club legend and has longevity but come on. Ronaldo is a far better player.
All time XIs (International and Club sides)
- Thread starter BD
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I recently had a discussion about an all time Bayern XI. This is what we kinda agreed on in the end:
Goalkeeper: Maier or Kahn? I actually prefer Maier, but the defense of the team in the 70's is well represented anyway and Kahn's impact in the CL win in 2001 was immense.
Defense: Breitner in midfield and Lizarazu at leftback was a close call. We thought about a 5 man defense with Beckenbauer as libero and Augenthaler as the right centerback, but with Matthäus in the team, it would be overkill.
Midfield: Schweinsteiger or no Schweinsteiger? We really struggled to come up with a solution, but there should be at least 3 players of the treble winning team in it, so he deserved it. Scholl was one of the few we instantly agreed on. Probably the all time fan favorite at the club, sadly struggling with injuries throughout his career, so his peak form was short, still incredibly underrated player and he gives the team more of a entertaining style than the obvious choices like Effenberg. You could have made a case for Uli Hoeness though.
Attack: Easiest decision once we went 4-3-3.
The problems:
What to do with players who only played for a short term at the club, but had no real longterm impact. Brehme leftback and Breitner in midfield for example or Kohler instead of Schwarzenbeck sounds brilliant at first. But we agreed that players should instantly be associated with the club when you hear their names. Ribery is in his 7th season at the moment, everyone else has played more years for the club.
What formation? We thought about a 442 with Robben instead of Scholl as a right midfielder and Rummenigge as the 2nd striker. But we didn't play that way most of our successful seasons and we all wanted Scholl in the team, so we dismissed it. It also had to be a team that would work, no shoehorning big names in and we believe the team above would play brilliant football.
Ribery - Müller - Rummenigge
Schweinsteiger - Scholl
Matthäus
Breitner - Schwarzenbeck - Beckenbauer - Lahm
Kahn
Schweinsteiger - Scholl
Matthäus
Breitner - Schwarzenbeck - Beckenbauer - Lahm
Kahn
Goalkeeper: Maier or Kahn? I actually prefer Maier, but the defense of the team in the 70's is well represented anyway and Kahn's impact in the CL win in 2001 was immense.
Defense: Breitner in midfield and Lizarazu at leftback was a close call. We thought about a 5 man defense with Beckenbauer as libero and Augenthaler as the right centerback, but with Matthäus in the team, it would be overkill.
Midfield: Schweinsteiger or no Schweinsteiger? We really struggled to come up with a solution, but there should be at least 3 players of the treble winning team in it, so he deserved it. Scholl was one of the few we instantly agreed on. Probably the all time fan favorite at the club, sadly struggling with injuries throughout his career, so his peak form was short, still incredibly underrated player and he gives the team more of a entertaining style than the obvious choices like Effenberg. You could have made a case for Uli Hoeness though.
Attack: Easiest decision once we went 4-3-3.
The problems:
What to do with players who only played for a short term at the club, but had no real longterm impact. Brehme leftback and Breitner in midfield for example or Kohler instead of Schwarzenbeck sounds brilliant at first. But we agreed that players should instantly be associated with the club when you hear their names. Ribery is in his 7th season at the moment, everyone else has played more years for the club.
What formation? We thought about a 442 with Robben instead of Scholl as a right midfielder and Rummenigge as the 2nd striker. But we didn't play that way most of our successful seasons and we all wanted Scholl in the team, so we dismissed it. It also had to be a team that would work, no shoehorning big names in and we believe the team above would play brilliant football.
Agree that Ronaldo should be in, but it's Best who keeps Giggsy out, not Ronnie.
----------------Schmeichel
Parker-----Ferdinand--Stam----Irwin
-------------Robson--Keane
-----Ronaldo----Charlton----Best
--------------------Law
Picking a second string is tough:
---------------Van Der Sar
Neville-----Pallister--Vidic----Evra
------------Edwards--Scholes
---Beckham----Cantona----Giggs
--------------van Nistelrooy
Think I'd go 4-3-3 with Holland:
Van Der Sar
Suurbier - Koeman - Stam - Krol
Neeskens - Rijkaard - Davids
Gullit - Van Basten - Cruyff
Suurbier - Koeman - Stam - Krol
Neeskens - Rijkaard - Davids
Gullit - Van Basten - Cruyff
Argentina is tricky attempting to fit in Moreno while somebody like Sivori has to miss out.
Fillol
Zanetti - Ruggeri - Passarella - Marzolini
Di Stefano - Redondo
Messi - Maradona - Moreno
Batistuta
Bit top-heavy, in which case I'd sub in Monti for Batistuta and shunt Di Stefano forward. Speaking of which your Brazil is a wee bit gung-ho. It's difficult to find a commanding centre-half to partner Da Guia.Zanetti - Ruggeri - Passarella - Marzolini
Di Stefano - Redondo
Messi - Maradona - Moreno
Batistuta
Taffarel
Carlos Alberto - Da Guia - Perreira - Nilton Santos
Didi - Falcao
Garrincha - Pele - Rivaldo
Ronaldo
Carlos Alberto - Da Guia - Perreira - Nilton Santos
Didi - Falcao
Garrincha - Pele - Rivaldo
Ronaldo
Reckon your France is bang on. Barthez stands out as a weakness, but not many others come to mind to replace him.
Scotland
Goram
McGrain - Greig - Hansen - Jardine
Johnstone - Souness - Baxter - Morton
Law - Dalglish
McGrain - Greig - Hansen - Jardine
Johnstone - Souness - Baxter - Morton
Law - Dalglish
You could easily fit in the likes of McGrory, Bremner, James, Miller, Gough and Gemmell.
Rangers
Goram
Jardine - Meiklejohn - Butcher - Numan
Greig - Gascoigne - Cooper
Laudrup - McCoist - Morton
Jardine - Meiklejohn - Butcher - Numan
Greig - Gascoigne - Cooper
Laudrup - McCoist - Morton
Yeah I went quite attacking with Brazil. I'd still have Carlos Alberto partnering Domingos, he was quite good as CB and allows having the Djalma-Garrincha flank in tact. Also, Rivelino ahead of Rivaldo for me. Both terribly underrated players and while I absolutely love Rivaldo, Rivelino was superior in most things Rivaldo did.
Di Stefano as a CM was also a possibility I had in mind, but in the end went with him in a role where his great goalscoring could also be used well.
As for Holland, yeah that's pretty sweet as well. I do think by now Robben has done enough to warrant a place in their all time XI, specially as he provides quality width.
Jairzinho scored in every match at the 1970 World Cup. Stoichkov was great for Barcelona when they won 4 consecutive league titles and their 1st CL trophy.
I've heard the stories too, if they're to be believed then he was one hell of a player. But i don't think i could put him in my team without knowing how good he was, as it kind of defeats the object. For the same reason, i wouldn't be able to put Pele in an all time XI.
That's a great pick. I might pick Hyypia ahead of Lawrenson, but then again he's a favourite of mine.
Can't believe Rush isn't in there, but you just can't leave out Suarez. On this season's form, he's as good as anyone we've had. Anyone.
Torres, Rush, Fowler, Owen, Alonso, Hyypia, Emlyn, Keegan, Mcmahon, Kennedy, Heighway, All players that wouldn't look out of place there and don't make the cut.
Whisper it, but Sturridge wil be a firm fixture in these debates in the years to come.
Left Cruyff(!!!), Iniesta, Figo, Rivaldo, Romario and Stoichkov on the bench as well.
Xubizaretta and Nadal would fine choices for keeper and centreback.
I wonder how many barca fans would be wrecking their heads to find some way of sneaking Luis Enrique into the lineup....
And Ronaldo and Busquets!
Not going to bother with a United selection, or any other club or country, so just my 'Nats. Fear the 'Nats.
First XI
---------------Friedel-------------
Cherundolo-Pope-Balboa-Bocanegra
----------Reyna-----O'Brien-------
Dempsey------Ramos------Donovan
--------------McBride-------------
Second XI
--------------Howard--------------
Clavijo---Onyewu---Lalas---Caligiuri
Jones---Dooley----Bradley---Harkes
--------Stewart-----Mathis--------
Bradley is arguably better than Reyna and O'Brien but the latter two were solid when fit and playing. Reyna played all over midfield throughout his career and even at RB a couple times; JOB played on the left side of midfield, centrally or wing, and even at left back. Shame JOB had the constant injury bug, best passer the US ever had (apologies to Donovan and Ramos). Howard or Keller for Second XI keeper.
First XI
---------------Friedel-------------
Cherundolo-Pope-Balboa-Bocanegra
----------Reyna-----O'Brien-------
Dempsey------Ramos------Donovan
--------------McBride-------------
Second XI
--------------Howard--------------
Clavijo---Onyewu---Lalas---Caligiuri
Jones---Dooley----Bradley---Harkes
--------Stewart-----Mathis--------
Bradley is arguably better than Reyna and O'Brien but the latter two were solid when fit and playing. Reyna played all over midfield throughout his career and even at RB a couple times; JOB played on the left side of midfield, centrally or wing, and even at left back. Shame JOB had the constant injury bug, best passer the US ever had (apologies to Donovan and Ramos). Howard or Keller for Second XI keeper.
I'm not sure if Maradona really belongs in a Barca all time XI. After all, in his two years, he was injured for months, acted like a drama queen, moaned and cried a lot, forced the board to fire managers and in the end started a huge brawl under the eyes of the royals which embarassed the whole club. He won one copa del rey, that's it. I'm pretty sure there are enough players who had a way bigger impact than him and deserve to be picked instead.
From what I've seen (and I go with the 3-4-3 to honour the dream-team):
From what I've seen (and I go with the 3-4-3 to honour the dream-team):
Zubizarreta
Alves - Koeman - Puyol
Guardiola
Xavi --- Cruyff
Laudrup
Stoichkov - Messi - Ronaldinho
From what I've read about the earlier decades, Kubala probably deserves to start ahead of Stoichkov, but I haven't seen more than a few highlights. You could make a case for Iniesta next to Xavi and Cruyff instead of Laudrup, but Laudrup - Stoichkov were so brilliant to watch, I want them together in the team. Maybe Migueli instead of Koeman or Ferrer instead of Alves? Rivaldo is a close 2nd to Ronaldinho, I'd love to include Luis Enrique and Schuster, but they probably belong in the 2nd team.Alves - Koeman - Puyol
Guardiola
Xavi --- Cruyff
Laudrup
Stoichkov - Messi - Ronaldinho
No Zidane?
what? No Jozy Altidore
No love for Busquets it seems, i think its arguable that he has been just as good as Guardiola as in his spell at Barca.
I'd say Busquets 09-11 was as good as Guardiola was for the dream team, but Guardiola played more than 10 years at Barca, became a huge presence at the club, captained the team later. All that makes it a very easy decision for me. It could be different when Busquets retires, but I don't think 25 year old Busquets should be put above retired Guardiola.
Guardiola had a much higher impact role in the Dream Team than Busquets has in the current Barcelona.
Guardiola played in front of Koeman who was the only centre back in the team. The two other defenders in that three man line were actually more like full-backs.
I can't think of many players who developed the ability to play this role at all in modern history, Rijkaard is probably the only one else I can think of. A defensive midfielder who is so brilliant that you can remove a centre-back without becoming too gung-hoo.
When Busquet is above all other central midfielders in Barca in the pecking order, then he can surely make a case of being at Guardiola's level. Skill-wise it is very close, but role-wise/impact wise it really isn't.
Guardiola's experiments with the 3-4-3 in 11/12 didn't fail because of Busquets, imo. He played that 'Guardiola dream team role' in front of a 3 man defense brilliantly. The injury crisis and the struggling attacking players forced him to go back to the 4-3-3 and make Messi the main attacker for the rest of the season.
Yes i agree with that assessment actually.
Well thats the thing though, i'm pretty sure a lot of Barca fans would contest that point. For me Busquets at the start of the season was playing better than Xavi and Iniesta to me, his form has dropped off in the past weeks, but to me as a CM he is just as valuable to the way Barcelona play as Xavi is currently. Especially when you take into the consideration the fact that many top players have tried to play the role he has excelled in for Barca, but none have quite adapted and played it to the level Busquets has in the past years. Also i'm sure theres many who would consider Laudrup above Guardiola in the pecking order during the dream team days, even so, its not about who's above who in the pecking order, each player has a different role to play, none really being more important than the other.
Guardiola was clearly the first name on the team-sheet of all the DM's/CM's/Defenders for the Dream Team.
Busquets on the other hand has been the third best CM/DM out of three fielded CM/DM's during Barcelona's modern success.
I think it is quite indisputable that if we assume the skill is equal, then Guardiola had a bigger impact on the Dream Team than Busquets had on the modern Barcelona.
I agree with Balu about the fact that Busquets is still young and should have his peak in front of him so he may very well exceed Guardiola. But during '08-'12 Busquets was 20-24 YO and I think it is clear that he wasn't nearly as good as Xavi/Iniesta.
Busquets on the other hand has been the third best CM/DM out of three fielded CM/DM's during Barcelona's modern success.
I think it is quite indisputable that if we assume the skill is equal, then Guardiola had a bigger impact on the Dream Team than Busquets had on the modern Barcelona.
I agree with Balu about the fact that Busquets is still young and should have his peak in front of him so he may very well exceed Guardiola. But during '08-'12 Busquets was 20-24 YO and I think it is clear that he wasn't nearly as good as Xavi/Iniesta.
I love Busi as much as anyone else but let's not underrate Pep.
Don't you think Pep's career is a carbon copy of Busquet's? 19 year old Pep became a first team regular in the 90/91 season and a crucial part of the team within 2 years, he was 21 when the dream team won the European Cup.
Ahead of whom? The one option is dropping Di Stefano to CM, but I'd really won't prefer that. Other being removing Puskas and playing Don Alfredo up front, again not ideal specially as it means dropping Puskas!
Gento and Ronaldo are pretty much undroppable from there.
In terms of importance and role to an extent, yes. But Busi still lacks the sort of impact Pep could make going forward. Specially Pep's passing range.
They are almost amusingly similar indeed.
I agree, Busquets is the better defender though and probably the better fit for the less entertaining tiki taka borefest. I'm not sure if Guardiola would have complemented Xavi as well as Busquets did.
Also I had Guardiola in my all time Barca XI and said it was an easy decision
.It's amazing to me that the USA have never, ever had anything close to a great player. I know all really athletically talented kids end up playing basketball or american football but I would have thought a few would have slipped though the net into a proper sport.[/quote]
Yeah. Defensively both are pretty similar in the fact that they used reading of the game and intelligence to counter the opposition. But as you said both teams used pretty different tactics, even if the global philosophy was similar.I agree, Busquets is the better defender though and probably the better fit for the less entertaining tiki taka borefest. I'm not sure if Guardiola would have complemented Xavi as well as Busquets did.
Also I had Guardiola in my all time Barca XI and said it was an easy decision
I also believe Busi has been restricted a bit because he has two top class CMs with him so he doesn't need to be the orchestrator, something which Pep used to be on a lot of occasions. A lot of Barca fans believe that Busi would take over the Xavi role once Xavi retires and maybe we could see him running the game while in attack as well, like Pep did. He's shown he has it in him to pick a beautiful pass or control the tempo.
Yeah, although he's almost always impressed whenever I've caught Barca matches of the early 80s, his impact there wasn't on the same level as many of the other no 10s who've done so much. As for the right-back dilemma I'd plump for Luis Enrique ahead of Dani Alves. Trying to choose a midfield and attack out of Guardiola, Xavi, Neeskens, Busquets, Iniesta, Luis Suarez, Schuster, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Cruyff, Laudrup, Figo, Maradona, Kubala, Ronaldo, Romario, Stoichkov, Eto'o and Messi is a big ask.
The nation has never cared I guess. Too many other sports capture the attention of children and snatch up the top athletes. There's no proper youth development system in place albeit MLS is attempting such now yet still relies too much on the college system which stunts development. Maybe in another 20 years or so they'll find a top player. The keeper spot has produced some quality talents.
Arguably... he did win european player of the year
Keane over robson is questionable
no edwards seems strange given how many other players he would not have seen play
and stam and rio over mcgrath is unjustifiable imo having seen them all play on many occasions mcgrath was by some way the best imo
having said that we each have our own opinion... id be interested to know how many times they saw robson & keane live and the same with stam rio vs mcgrath as the only reason I can see for picking them would not having seen robbo and mcgrath in their prime
edit... no Cruyff in the barca team seems strange as well
Schmeichel
Irwin
Ferdinand
Vidic
Evra
Keane
Edwards
Charlton
Ronaldo
Law
Best
Some sort of 433. That front 6 would guarantee 98% possession and 3 hat tricks a game.
Irwin
Ferdinand
Vidic
Evra
Keane
Edwards
Charlton
Ronaldo
Law
Best
Some sort of 433. That front 6 would guarantee 98% possession and 3 hat tricks a game.
Milito won once, but I'd take both of our dutch strikers over him.
Milito won the old UEFA club footballer of the year award in 2010, which then was replaced in 2011 by that shiny, new UEFA Best player in Europe award and is now the official European player of the year thing, because the Ballon d'Or became the new FIFA world player of the year award.
fair enough... he does stick out though wjen the last 5 winners were Ronaldinho, kaka, ronaldo, messi and then milito
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Club_Footballer_of_the_Year
Best player in a treble winning team. Call him a one season wonder, if you like, but he was absolutely brilliant for Inter and won them the league and the CL with outstanding performances and crucial goals that season. He scored all of Inter's goals in the CL final and the cup final as well, if I remember correctly.
United
Schmeichel
Irwin
Ferdinand
Edwards
Byrne
Ronaldo
Robson
Charlton
Best
Law
Cantona
Subs
Giggs
Scholes
Taylor
Keane
McGrath
Coppell
Van Der Sar
Schmeichel
Irwin
Ferdinand
Edwards
Byrne
Ronaldo
Robson
Charlton
Best
Law
Cantona
Subs
Giggs
Scholes
Taylor
Keane
McGrath
Coppell
Van Der Sar
United Best X1:
Schmeichel, Neville, Stam, Rio, Byrne; Best, Edwards, Robson, Charlton; Ronaldo, Law
Second X1:
Van der Sar, Irwin, Vidic, McGrath, Dunne; Keane, Scholes, Giggs; Cantona, Taylor, Rooney/Rowley?
Schmeichel, Neville, Stam, Rio, Byrne; Best, Edwards, Robson, Charlton; Ronaldo, Law
Second X1:
Van der Sar, Irwin, Vidic, McGrath, Dunne; Keane, Scholes, Giggs; Cantona, Taylor, Rooney/Rowley?