Has the person who the Smith family saw that night still not come forward?
Madeleine McCann
- Thread starter Fergies Gum
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Agree or disagee...bit irrelevant really. The aim of this new investigation is to find the person who took Madeleine isn't it.
You're right, we're getting sidetracked here. We need to be spending our time investigating!
So, who here has a decent lead? We need to get the old detail back together and work on getting a solid wire.
Eyepopper, get yourself over to Portugal and do some digging. Doc Dwayne, I want eyes on the McCanns; they're giving the appearance of having gone straight, but they're keeping something from us and I want to know just what that something is - you're my eyes and ears out there. Irwin, you're my guy, I need you in shop; keep things ticking over here whilst I go speak to the district attorney and see if I can't get us some better equipment - we'll never get anything done with all this fecking cold war junk!
Come on! Get to work, lads, we'll have this case cracked if it kills us!
I'm on it, Cider!Still watching The Wire Cider?
Every time I post a smily in this thread it makes me a little sad.
Neither have I. I've seen much worse mind no matter the outcome of this event.
And the actual point, being that people seem far angrier about a bit of sub-optimal parenting that they do about a very small kid being kidnapped and possibly raped/murdered. I wonder if this is why knee jerk right wing politics and gutter tabloid journalism is so successful. People love simple answers that allow them to point at something, blame it and then relax and move on.
That Madeline was left alone by her parents is fact.
Whether she was kidnapped is purely a hypothesis. I am not saying it was not what happened, but am interested in the evidence that supports this.
First time I have heard leaving your 3 very young children alone while you go out for the evening as "a bit of sub-optimal parenting".
But if that's how you need to sugar-coat it, then go right ahead.
No idea why you equate my position on this to be "people love simple answers that allow them to pint, blame and move on"?
I have repeatedly asked for those that believe the abduction hypothesis to be what actually happened to share the evidence that they feel supports this.
The absence of a child is the big giveaway.
It certainly is - for abduction or murder.
Certainly something happened. I am curious of the evidence that supports any hypothesis.
Just read this regarding missing children:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/25/opinion/lanning-missing-children/
Maybe parents feel they can do more to prevent one than the other?
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/25/opinion/lanning-missing-children/
I read this on a different site:
It is strange how concerns are shaped - presumably by current events and the media. There is no logical reason to worry about your child being kidnapped more than them being involved in a car accident - but I guess this is human nature.
Maybe parents feel they can do more to prevent one than the other?
And the idea that the McCann's killed or covered up the death of Maddie is ludicrous. Zero evidence combined with the almost impossibility of them behaving normally while covering up such a thing and disposing of the body, followed by many years of failing to melt into the background after "getting away with it". It is just totally and utterly implausible.
The Portuguese cops only considered them suspects because of their "the butler did it" approach and stunning incompetence. Of course now they how have a new suspect who is dead, thus avoiding them doing anything yet again.
The Portuguese cops only considered them suspects because of their "the butler did it" approach and stunning incompetence. Of course now they how have a new suspect who is dead, thus avoiding them doing anything yet again.
It was the British police who first advised the Portuguese police to consider the McCanns as suspects.
How much evidence is there that Madeline was abducted - aside of Kate knowing immediately that she had been? Even the McCann's PR spokesman has said that the abduction is a purely a hypothesis that they're running with.
Humans are rubbish at assessing risk. Which is why we drive everywhere without a care yet stress about flying. What the McCann's did was less risky than driving your kid around the block to help them sleep. Yet I'd do the later without a thought but I doubt I'd do exactly what they did.
Nothing wrong with considering the possibility in the first instance but having done that it is obvious that they had nothing to do with it.
Of course it is but there are no other plausible ones.
That's true. And this is not to try and bash the McCann's, but doesn't that make it even more surprising that they would leave their kids - given that you could say the majority of parents have an irrationally high fear about their children being abducted?
With regard to what you said about it being ludicrous that the McCann's could have been involved given their actions. I agree it is unlikely, but there are several aspects of the abduction theory that don't sit well with me.
Even just to look at one aspect - Kate's reactions to finding Madeline not in her bed. Now I know it is impossible to accurately put yourself in that situation...but my impulse upon seeing an empty bed would be that my child had gotten out of bed. My first thought would be to search every room in the apartment, look in wardrobes frantically, shout out his/her name outside, etc.
Apparently Kate did not do this. As soon as she saw the empty bed she knew Madeline had been abducted. Her first action was to run down to her friends and tell them that Madeline had been taken.
In the above scenario, if I DID instantly think my child had been abducted, then the first thing I would do would be to make sure my other children were OK. I cannot fathom the idea of deciding one of your children has been abducted after having been left alone...then leaving your other children alone while you go and tell your friends that she has been taken. If I felt one of my children had been taken, I can guarantee that my other children would not leave my sight.
I cannot understand how Kate and Gerry were so certain that she had been abducted, that they didn't even search for Madeline. I am also stunned that none of their friends offered or were asked to help search. Instead the friends all went back to their rooms and went to bed.
I know none if this is evidence of guilt, but they are just some of the aspects that my gut has an issue with.
Yet it's fine to judge the Mccanns and make all sorts of accusations based on how you think you might have reacted or on how you think they should have reacted, even though its impossible to put yourself in the situation.
I stated up front that I was not saying 'this is how I would react', but was just sharing what I thought I would do. Stop being so obtuse.
I also stated that none of that is evidence of guilt, but is just my personal thoughts/gut reaction.
But apologies. In future I will only comment on things or make suggestions based on things I have fully experienced myself.
Since you are paying attention to every turn of phrase, can you tell me where in that post I made "all sorts of accusations" against the McCanns?
I'm not being obtuse, there's no point speculating about how you might react in a highly stressful scenario. As you say yourself, it's impossible to put yourself in that situation.
There's even less point comparing your imaged reaction to what the Mccanns did in the actual scenario, and as for using that comparison as the basis for questions or doubt, well that goes beyond pointless.
I expect I'd run round to every door and kick it in to make sure she wasn't in there, obviously I have no idea whether that's what I'd actually do, but the fact that Gerry McCann didn't do that raises questions - ridiculous.
There's even less point comparing your imaged reaction to what the Mccanns did in the actual scenario, and as for using that comparison as the basis for questions or doubt, well that goes beyond pointless.
I expect I'd run round to every door and kick it in to make sure she wasn't in there, obviously I have no idea whether that's what I'd actually do, but the fact that Gerry McCann didn't do that raises questions - ridiculous.
Just saw your post and agree with your comments.
All sorts of bullshit 'gut feelings' then.
The only turn of phrase I'm focusing on is where you say it's impossible to know how you'd react, then go on to speculate about how you might act, as if that's forms any sort of basis for suspicion.
I've seen people react under extreme circumstances relating to their children. There is no point expecting rational behavior or extrapolating anything from it's abscence.
Fair enough - I have fortunately not been around many extreme circumstances like that - but appreciate your insight.
That sounded very sarcastic..but I assure you it wasn't intended in that manner!
Sarcastic? Not at all. Simple statement of fact.
The instance that isn't too personal to recount involves a young kid killed playing chicken with a motorbike. His mother was calling for a doctor/ambulance while trying to scoop his brain matter back in. There was zero doubt he was killed on impact but ........
The instance that isn't too personal to recount involves a young kid killed playing chicken with a motorbike. His mother was calling for a doctor/ambulance while trying to scoop his brain matter back in. There was zero doubt he was killed on impact but ........
Yes. Wasn't good.
Do you mind me asking what you do - am assuming it is your line of work that put you in these situations?
I was driving a bunch of tourists back to their resort in Sharm El Sheik after taking them diving in the early 90's and came across this accident. Other things are personal rather than professional and aren't really for me to share. We all lose our minds when bad things happen to our kids.
Another one was when my friend was knocked down and killed by a (presumably) drunk driver in Chorlton when I was a kid. His mother kept going to the bus stop for months in the forlorn hope that he would get off the usual bus.
I haven't seen anyone that is angrier about neglect than the kidnapping or murder of such a small child, but it's one aspect of the situation which people should be allowed to comment on if they wish. In fact the angriest person in this thread by a country mile is you Wibble, judging by the sheer number of posts you're making.
Angry? Not even mildly irritated. I merely say what I think. You'd know if I was angry.
It could mean many different things. People usually don't remember what they did 5 years back in time so that person could have simply forgotten that he was there at the time. In spite of an extensive coverage of the whole thing there are still people left who haven't heard of Madeleine's disappearance too so this might also be the case. And finally someone could simply be not too keen on the idea of being in the spotlight and knows well that if he doesn't come forward they won't find him and he'll be able to live a peaceful life without numerous interrogations.
Large number of posts = anger???????
Well tbf his posts do come across as forceful... I just think he's passionate about the subject (for personal reasons)... fair enough right?
I tend not to hold wishy washy opinions. Or if I do I can't be bothered commenting.
Wouldn't exactly this kind of behaviour serve to explain the McCanns continued endeavours to find the 'abductor' of their child even though really they know that they disposed of the body themselves after she suffered a fatal accident in their absence that night?Another one was when my friend was knocked down and killed by a (presumably) drunk driver in Chorlton when I was a kid. His mother kept going to the bus stop for months in the forlorn hope that he would get off the usual bus.
No
Yes, it would.