Youth Analysis

[Mr. MUJAC]

After looking at my records I discovered the following results about teams Youth Policies......

I looked at all the top teams and their records in producing kids through their own system.....I only looked at players since the early 1950's as structured systems only started at that point and also the introduction of the FA Youth Cup in 1952.

I only included players with over 70 league appearances as this roughly equates to two seasons of playing and you could arguably call them 'first team regulars'.....(although if you included every player, United's stats look even better)

I also did not include players like Lee Sharpe....who although coming through our system....was bought from Torquay..

The results came up as thus:

Manchester United - 54 players (one season out of top flight)
Chelsea - 37 players (10 seasons out of top flight)
Manchester City - 36 players (13 seasons out of top flight)
West Ham United - 36 players (11 seasons out of top flight)
Middlesbrough - 35 players (31 seasons out of top flight)
Arsenal - 30 players (all in Division One)
Everton - 30 players (all in Division One)
Charlton Athletic - 28 players (37 seasons out of top flight)
Tottenham Hotspur - 22 players (one season out of top flight)
Newcastle United - 19 players (13 seasons out of top flight)
Liverpool - 18 players (8 seasons out of top flight)

I found this very interesting....clearly our Policy is superior.....but we knew that anyway....and even though we had one season in Division Two, all our players featured at the top level.....not the case with all the other teams bar Arsenal, Everton and Spurs.

The stats for our biggest rivals show that Arsenal were successful with their policy in the 1970's and 1980's with 20 players coming through in this period.... Chelsea were more successful in the 1960's and 1970's with 23 players coming through......Liverpool are just a joke!!!

We had a our most successful period - unsurprisingly - in the 1950's and 1960's although the 1990's is very close.....clearly having two visionaries such as Busby and Ferguson...both with a great belief in youth development...have had so much impact on our success.

It also removes the old argument about many of our kids not making it....well it appears that all the other clubs have a much higher fall-out rate!!!

And when you look at how many internationals we have developed....they don't come anywhere close....

The Liverpool statistic is mind blowing......talk about buying league titles and European Cups....well...it's not just a recent thing with Chelsea.....Liverpool have been doing it for decades....

.....our success has always been built on a foundation of bought players and home grown talent!

 

[red thru&thru]

that is some great research there.

it just goes to show what our club is all about.

yea chelsea are buying all the players but at the end of the day their time will end and hopefully we will still develop our own players like we have been

 

[RedPhil1957]

After looking at my records I discovered the following results about teams Youth Policies......

I looked at all the top teams and their records in producing kids through their own system.....I only looked at players since the early 1950's as structured systems only started at that point and also the introduction of the FA Youth Cup in 1952.

I only included players with over 70 league appearances as this roughly equates to two seasons of playing and you could arguably call them 'first team regulars'.....(although if you included every player, United's stats look even better)

I also did not include players like Lee Sharpe....who although coming through our system....was bought from Torquay..

The results came up as thus:

Manchester United - 54 players
Chelsea - 37 players
Manchester City - 36 players
West Ham United - 36 players
Middlesbrough - 35 players
Arsenal - 30 players
Everton - 30 players
Charlton Athletic - 28 players
Tottenham Hotspur - 22 players
Newcastle United - 19 players
Liverpool - 18 players

I found this very interesting....clearly our Policy is superior.....but we knew that anyway....these statistics just confirm it in black and white.....

It also removes the old argument about many of our kids not making it....well it appears that all the other clubs have a much higher fall-out rate!!!

And when you look at how many internationals we have developed....they don't come anywhere close....

The Liverpool statistic is mind blowing......talk about buying league titles and European Cups....well...it's not just a recent thing with Chelsea.....Liverpool have been doing it for decades....

.....our success has always been built on a foundation of bought players and home grown talent!

very interesting Tony, I would be interested in the international players produced

 

[peterstorey]

I found this very interesting....clearly our Policy is superior.....but we knew that anyway....these statistics just confirm it in black and white.....

It is very interesting, It proves that your policy HAS been more successful. But don't forget you started before everybody else (eg probably a 12-year drop on Arsenal who didn't have a youth policy until Billy Wright arrived about 1962). Also, who except for Wes Brown have you developed in the last 10 years?

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

It is very interesting, It proves that your policy HAS been more successful. But don't forget you started before everybody else (eg probably a 12-year drop on Arsenal who didn't have a youth policy until Billy Wright arrived about 1962). Also, who except for Wes Brown have you developed in the last 10 years?

If we continue to use the 70 game rule...then Fletcher and O'Shea......and Richardson will probably get there this season....

I'm also not sure of your question.

If your question is "who have we 'developed'".....I can give you a whole list of names...but they didn't make it at United....we have developed some fine fullbacks for example...but not better than Gary Neville...same with Giggs....so players need to move on to allow the next ones a chance and also give first team football to players.....

If your question is "how many have made the grade at United" then you only have those two......sure there are plenty of kids coming through but they have yet to breakthrough and hold down a place.........

Apart from Ashley Cole......what other British players have Arsenal had in the last 10 years that went on to play over 70 league games?

I know this much....I would rather be an emerging talent at our place than at others.......we will give them a chance.....

Seriously though, who is coming through at your place......? Local not from abroad as the likes of Fabregas came from Barcelona's Academy just like Pique did.....

Do you get to watch the Academy and Reserves?

Apart from Pique and Rossi in the reserves......we have just taken a Norwegian from Molde....but everyone else is British/Irish.........

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

very interesting Tony, I would be interested in the international players produced

Off the top of my head.......since 1952.........Foulkes, Byrne, Blanchflower, Pegg, Edwards, Viollet, Hamilton, Scott, Whelan, McGuinness, Charlton, Brennan, Carolan, Giles, Nicholson, Stiles, Briggs, McMillan, Sadler, Best, Kidd, Burns, Rimmer, Givens, McIlroy, Greenhoff, Albiston, McCreery, Nicholl, Bailey, Duxbury, Whiteside, Davies, Hughes, Blackmore, Sharpe, Bosnich, Johnson, Sixsmith, Lowther, Giggs, G. Neville, P. Neville, Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Brown, Gillespie, Murdock, Davies, Savage, Mulryne, O'Shea, Healy, Richardson, Fletcher, Spector.....

I have probably missed a couple......but there's nearly 60 anyway.........obviously some didn't play for our first team and others didn't play over 70 games.....but we 'developed' them none the less.....

 

[peterstorey]

If we continue to use the 70 game rule...then Fletcher and O'Shea......

If your question is "how many have made the grade at United" then you only have those two......?

O'Shea didn't come through the ranks (if you want to include him then you need to include Anelka , Clichy & Fabregas at Arsenal) & Fletcher isn't a first team squad player in my view even if he has clocked up a lot of games. Why isn't Cole in the Arsenal numbers?

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

O'Shea didn't come through the ranks (if you want to include him then you need to include Anelka , Clichy & Fabregas at Arsenal) & Fletcher isn't a first team squad player in my view even if he has clocked up a lot of games. Why isn't Cole in the Arsenal numbers?

Cole is in the numbers.....the last one......

I included O'Shea as he played in the FA Youth Cup for us as a 17 year-old....apparently we signed him a year earlier at 16....the legal age with Irish lads.....as he wanted to finish school over there......he stopped playing for Waterford in 1997 and went to United's Centre of Excellence before arriving in July 1998.....

Secondly....Waterford Bohemians...where he came from is not attached to the semi-pro Waterford club......it was just local club football in Ireland....

So...we didn't actually sign him from another club at all......his development was local until he came to us......

The three Arsenal players you mention came directly from other clubs...Anelka had already played 10 times for PSG, Clichy came from Cannes and Fabregas came from Barcelona. None of them have managed 70 games...

By the way....if I have missed any Arsenal player that should be included happy to change the number......one or two either way is of no consequence...

Finally, Fletcher played 35 first team games in 2003/04, 30 in 2004/05 and 41 last season..........in the top 7 appearance makers over that period...

 

[Tribec]

Off the top of my head.......since 1952.........Foulkes, Byrne, Blanchflower, Pegg, Edwards, Viollet, Hamilton, Scott, Whelan, McGuinness, Charlton, Brennan, Carolan, Giles, Nicholson, Stiles, Briggs, McMillan, Sadler, Best, Kidd, Burns, Rimmer, Givens, McIlroy, Greenhoff, Albiston, McCreery, Nicholl, Bailey, Duxbury, Whiteside, Davies, Hughes, Blackmore, Sharpe, Bosnich, Johnson, Sixsmith, Lowther, Giggs, G. Neville, P. Neville, Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Brown, Gillespie, Murdock, Davies, Savage, Mulryne, O'Shea, Healy, Richardson, Fletcher, Spector.....

I have probably missed a couple......but there's nearly 60 anyway.........obviously some didn't play for our first team and others didn't play over 70 games.....but we 'developed' them none the less.....

Tony above you didn't include Sharpe in the totals for players coming through as we had bought him, but here you seem fit to include him in your list. Just being rather picky. Mind you, may I suggest that you switch Sharpe for Platt. He was at United till Big Ron let him go to Crewe.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

Tony above you didn't include Sharpe in the totals for players coming through as we had bought him, but here you seem fit to include him in your list. Just being rather picky. Mind you, may I suggest that you switch Sharpe for Platt. He was at United till Big Ron let him go to Crewe.

Fair enough........but I forgot to add Ackerley, Dunphy, Hennessy, P. Hughes, Kirovski, McLoughlin, Macken, O'Sullivan, Platt, Rodlund, Stewart, Thorrington, Wood.......all internationals.....