You’ll never win anything with kids

Pogue Mahone

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This has been on my mind a lot recently. For the sake of argument let’s assume a peak age player is 25+. And that peak can extend past 30, depending on the player.

I would argue that a team can never be successful without at least two, ideally more, top class and peak age players having a very good season.

If you think about United, post Fergie, that’s happened every time we’ve made the top four. Most recently when Rashford and Casemiro (special mention to Varane) got us into the top three. Peak age Bruno also gave us a boost but unless at least two of them are producing sustained peak performances we’re basically useless.

When Fergie was still in charge the same applied. He always made sure that talented youngsters had peak age players around them to get us across the line. He needed Cantona, Pallister and Bruce to win his first league title. Our last league title would never have happened without Carrick and RvP both simultaneously having one of the best season of their careers.

Liverpool are looking to win the league this season because of a bunch of peak age players doing their peak age thing.

Arsenal under Arteta are interesting in that they lacked peak age players for a few years and endured poor league campaigns but are a force now those players have grown up (along with some peak age signings)

City are also interesting in that Haaland is a brilliant example of a young footballer whose game gets elevated by peak age players (De Bruyne, Rodri) and diminished when they’re unavailable or out of form.

Chelsea have gone all in on “yong and lernin” players by signing the very best that money can buy and I’m willing to bet they won’t win anything until their age profile changes. And bear in mind, no football team anywhere has ever invested so much money in assembling this squad of crazy talented youngsters. So if anyone will ever win something with just a bunch of kids then they have the best chance of doing it.

Signing youngsters appeals to the money men who are obsessed with treating footballers like assets but building a squad that’s full of them is a crap approach to making a successful football team.

Discuss.
 
Yeah I think your analysis is spot on. Although I think you might also turn the argument on its head and say you can't win anything with just experience, either. You need that youthful hunger, ambition and desire. Bother age groups profit from one another.

You can't fast-track experience, but the older players can guide the young ones to mature in the best possible way and build professionalism, consistency and composure. At the same time, older players who have seen and done it all can sometimes lose that hunger for more. That's where the youth with their excitement come in which in turn will rub off on the older players and remind them of their own breakthrough and give them a new purpose by guiding the next generation.

That's why I think a good mix is the best way, not just in football but in most work environments, actually.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This has been on my mind a lot recently. For the sake of argument let’s assume a peak age player is 25+. And that peak can extend past 30, depending on the player.

I would argue that a team can never be successful without at least two, ideally more, top class and peak age players having a very good season.

If you think about United, post Fergie, that’s happened every time we’ve made the top four. Most recently when Rashford and Casemiro (special mention to Varane) got us into the top three. Peak age Bruno also gave us a boost but unless at least two of them are producing sustained peak performances we’re basically useless.

When Fergie was still in charge the same applied. He always made sure that talented youngsters had peak age players around them to get us across the line. He needed Cantona, Pallister and Bruce to win his first league title. Our last league title would never have happened without Carrick and RvP both simultaneously having one of the best season of their careers.

Liverpool are looking to win the league this season because of a bunch of peak age players doing their peak age thing.

Arsenal under Arteta are interesting in that they lacked peak age players for a few years and endured poor league campaigns but are a force now those players have grown up (along with some peak age signings)

City are also interesting in that Haaland is a brilliant example of a young footballer whose game gets elevated by peak age players (De Bruyne, Rodri) and diminished when they’re unavailable or out of form.

Chelsea have gone all in on “yong and lernin” players by signing the very best that money can buy and I’m willing to bet they won’t win anything until their age profile changes. And bear in mind, no football team anywhere has ever invested so much money in assembling this squad of crazy talented youngsters. So if anyone will ever win something with just a bunch of kids then they have the best chance of doing it.

Signing youngsters appeals to the money men who are obsessed with treating footballers like assets but building a squad that’s full of them is a crap approach to making a successful football team.

Discuss.
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This has always been a hallmark of our club, we’ve consistently had a great balance between nurturing young talent and having experienced top players to guide them. As you rightly pointed out, "building a squad that’s full of them (youngsters) is a crap approach to making a successful football team." This is especially true when these young players are left to carry the full burden without seasoned professionals to mentor and guide them along the way.
 
Yes I've said numerous times the 'United Way' is killing us. Not only are we obsessed with young players but we are obsessed with academy players and will build around them and rarely sell them and just keep playing them trying to re-create the Busby babes. It's lunacy. Sure everyone will love another crop of world class youngsters but the odds of that happening is minute and the gap between one set of generational talents and the next set is 10/20 years plus. United dont ger the fundamentals right. Rangnick literally told is what to do. Get 24 ish players in thier second contract. But do we listen. No.
 
yeah we lack a real backbone of peak age world class players. This should be the spine and core of your team and then have young players mixed in with that who can learn and grow into those roles later.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This has been on my mind a lot recently. For the sake of argument let’s assume a peak age player is 25+. And that peak can extend past 30, depending on the player.

I would argue that a team can never be successful without at least two, ideally more, top class and peak age players having a very good season.

If you think about United, post Fergie, that’s happened every time we’ve made the top four. Most recently when Rashford and Casemiro (special mention to Varane) got us into the top three. Peak age Bruno also gave us a boost but unless at least two of them are producing sustained peak performances we’re basically useless.

When Fergie was still in charge the same applied. He always made sure that talented youngsters had peak age players around them to get us across the line. He needed Cantona, Pallister and Bruce to win his first league title. Our last league title would never have happened without Carrick and RvP both simultaneously having one of the best season of their careers.

Liverpool are looking to win the league this season because of a bunch of peak age players doing their peak age thing.

Arsenal under Arteta are interesting in that they lacked peak age players for a few years and endured poor league campaigns but are a force now those players have grown up (along with some peak age signings)

City are also interesting in that Haaland is a brilliant example of a young footballer whose game gets elevated by peak age players (De Bruyne, Rodri) and diminished when they’re unavailable or out of form.

Chelsea have gone all in on “yong and lernin” players by signing the very best that money can buy and I’m willing to bet they won’t win anything until their age profile changes. And bear in mind, no football team anywhere has ever invested so much money in assembling this squad of crazy talented youngsters. So if anyone will ever win something with just a bunch of kids then they have the best chance of doing it.

Signing youngsters appeals to the money men who are obsessed with treating footballers like assets but building a squad that’s full of them is a crap approach to making a successful football team.

Discuss.
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Said the same thing last night. Sent the Arsenal team to my mate and said "one young lad and ten senior players in their prime - difference between the top clubs and us"

That young lad playing for Arsenal was at fullback too, not running the game from CM, chucked in at CB or playing as a lone CF
 
Lentwood said:
Said the same thing last night. Sent the Arsenal team to my mate and said "one young lad and ten senior players in their prime - difference between the top clubs and us"

That young lad playing for Arsenal was at fullback too, not running the game from CM, chucked in at CB or playing as a lone CF
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Wait until you see the age profile of the top club in the league!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just been looking at the age of Liverpool’s squad and it’s one of the most consistently “peak age” squads I think I’ve ever seen. No wonder they’re running away with the league.
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This is one of my biggest frustrations watching them as a rival fan. You have to give them massive credit for the way they have built and managed that squad but they're largely attritional and unappealing for the neutral.

I will never look at them as a set of great players, as compared with United 99, or 2008, or Barcelona under Pep, or City under Pep, or Arsenal 98 or Chelsea 2003

They always have four or five players at least who aren't special in the slightest - just the right profile, the right fit and the right age. It's bloody irritatingly simple (as an idea, not to execute) and effective though!
 
I think this is evident when you start looking at our attack.

Hojlund - 21
Amad - 22
Garnacho - 20
Zirkzee - 23

That's an average age of 21 and a half years of age. And we're asking them to lead the lines and be our main source of goals.

When Sancho was here, he was 24. Antony is 24. They're young, too. Rashford is 27, so he really should be leading the way and being one of our most reliable players. Similar wish Bruno at 30.

It's one of the major reasons we've looked very inconsistent up top. We're also asking Bruno and Rashford to be leading by example as the senior players of the dressing room. Not exactly the best role models or terribly consistent, either.
 
It's all relative. If you have a team of the best "kids" in the world, a good manager and set up, and everyone else has an off season....or you get a lucky cup draw, you can win with kids.

Ideally you want a team that gives you enough in each of the base elements: ability, pace, fitness, workmate, experience, game management, hunger, mental strength, etc. Some of that you're much more likely to get from experienced players. Some of it younger players can offer more of. I don't think there's a set formula for how much experience vs how much youth as long as you can get the balance from what you have.

Then on top you need 2-3 star players who will be difference makers, which could be younger or older but usually someone around their peak.

I think the last bit is the most difficult. Players who are good enough to be useful in a succesful group aren't that difficult to find. Its more difficult to idebtify what youre missing and to keep everyone motivated. Players who stand out even in a good team and turn it into a great one though are very rare, and most of the time already at a succcesful team (or one aiming to be) so very difficult to sign. I think this is the hurdle Arsenal have got stuck on currently.
 
Its true nowadays. PL overall level has gone up significantly. You play kids they get trauma and you get relegated. It used to be that talented young players can go toe to toe with established bang average PL players. Nowadays the bang average ones are miles ahead of kids at least when it comes into tactical execution and playing into the refs.
 
Today it is true - you do not win anything with kids. It was to be the more experienced players who lift the most in a time of crisis like now. It is hopeless when fans shoot at players like Højlund, Amad, Mainoo and Garnacho. They are all young and will not perform consistently. Last season Garnacho scored the goal of the year in the PL as a 19-year-old and now the fans and maybe even the club want to sell him because he has had a long period of poor performances and sometimes acts immature. It makes no sense in my eyes.

It must be players like Maguire, De Ligt, Casemiro, Eriksen, Dalot, Rashford, Shaw, Martinez and Bruno who must take responsibility and lift the team and the young players. Therefore, it is also very unfortunate that most of our young players are offensive players, as they have no experienced striker to lean on.
 
Yeah, The class of 92 came into a team with Cantona, Bruce, Schmeichal and Keane who were the big players. You only have to watch that famous 1-0 victory against Newcastle to see who was driving us to the title that year. Later on you had the likes of Brown, Fletcher, O’Shea, Evans introduced into a team of winners and a cycle went on.

A big fear is that youngsters get lost when they’re not introduced to a winning culture with leaders. Martial and Rashford could have been better players for instance, and lesser talents that were still very good like Januzaj and Lingard kind of got lost or crumbled under the pressure. People can say we have the likes of Eriksen and Casemiro but I wonder how much they feel a part of the club or set the standards.
 
Irwin99 said:
Yeah, The class of 92 came into a team with Cantona, Bruce, Schmeichal and Keane who were the big players. You only have to watch that famous 1-0 victory against Newcastle to see who was driving us to the title that year. Later on you had the likes of Brown, Fletcher, O’Shea, Evans introduced into a team of winners and a cycle went on.

A big fear is that youngsters get lost when they’re not introduced to a winning culture with leaders. Martial and Rashford could have been better players for instance, and lesser talents that were still very good like Januzaj and Lingard kind of got lost or crumbled under the pressure. People can say we have the likes of Eriksen and Casemiro but I wonder how much they feel a part of the club or set the standards.
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I have no doubt at all that Casemiro and Eriksen are deeply professional. Casemiro has almost won everything, and you don't do that while sleeping.
Eriksen has a fantastic and calm personality. He gives everything every time he plays. But age is catching up with him. This does not mean that he cannot be a good role model for the younger ones.
 
Hester_manc said:
I have no doubt at all that Casemiro and Eriksen are deeply professional. Casemiro has almost won everything, and you don't do that while sleeping.
Eriksen has a fantastic and calm personality. He gives everything every time he plays. But age is catching up with him. This does not mean that he cannot be a good role model for the younger ones.
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The issue is that neither Casemiro or Eriksen are 'fully embedded' within the starting 11. Neither one has ever really cemented their starting position in the same way that Cantona did, or Keane, or Scholes, or Rooney, or Van Nistelrooy, or Schmeichel. Their time and peak as our regular starting 11 is very, very small.
 
Superunknown said:
The issue is that neither Casemiro or Eriksen are 'fully embedded' within the starting 11. Neither one has ever really cemented their starting position in the same way that Cantona did, or Keane, or Scholes, or Rooney, or Van Nistelrooy, or Schmeichel. Their time and peak as our regular starting 11 is very, very small.
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True, not this season at least. But we have other players, who should be among our more mature players and lift the younger. Some of them are injured all the time. And the only "mature" attacking player seems to have lost his motivation. But they SHOULD be: Maguire, De Ligt, Casemiro, Eriksen, Dalot, Rashford, Shaw, Martinez and Bruno
 
Hester_manc said:
True, not this season at least. But we have other players, who should be among our more mature players and lift the younger. Some of them are injured all the time. And the only "mature" attacking player seems to have lost his motivation. But they SHOULD be: Maguire, De Ligt, Casemiro, Eriksen, Dalot, Rashford, Shaw, Martinez and Bruno
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100% agree. Each of those players you have mentioned should be setting the standard and should be raising the bar for the younger players. Each of our younger players should be looking at those listed and be aspiring to be like them. I think that's another reason why this last decade has been disappointing. The senior players just haven't stepped up enough and led the way.
 
Hester_manc said:
I have no doubt at all that Casemiro and Eriksen are deeply professional. Casemiro has almost won everything, and you don't do that while sleeping.
Eriksen has a fantastic and calm personality. He gives everything every time he plays. But age is catching up with him. This does not mean that he cannot be a good role model for the younger ones.
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I don’t doubt at all they are professional and as you say, Casemiro is someone who has won absolutely everything at club level, I just wonder if they really feel like they are the senior players at the club and I’m pretty sure both of them have had an eye on leaving the club for the past year, primarily because they don’t know if they are in the club’s plans going forward.

Ideally, you want strong players in their prime to come in and know they’re going to be a part of the club for years to come.
 
Superunknown said:
The issue is that neither Casemiro or Eriksen are 'fully embedded' within the starting 11. Neither one has ever really cemented their starting position in the same way that Cantona did, or Keane, or Scholes, or Rooney, or Van Nistelrooy, or Schmeichel. Their time and peak as our regular starting 11 is very, very small.
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Yeah, exactly. Rashford and Bruno are the only two peak age players nailed on to start because of their consistent level of performance. And now Rashford isn’t any more. With Bruno having his own crisis of sorts. So it’s no wonder we’re in the shit.
 
There should be 3 age profiles in the squad.

1. Older experienced players
2. Peak aged players
3. Younger learning players

Then you're constantly looking forward in 3-4 years cycles about how to improve and keep standards high in each of those groups. Then you always have the best and most suitable players staying and moving from 3 to 1 over their career.
 
I don't think anyone is arguing for a squad of 18 youngsters. It's impossible to assemble immediately a squad of peak age footballers, due to excessive cost and the fact that we cannot offer immediate challenge for top honours, but we should be looking to secure 2-3 serious players to add to the few that are good enough and, in my view, make the rest up of younger players who are hungry for the fight.
 
There's absolutely a peak age balance you want your squad to be at.

The issue is that when you're in a position like ours, you don't want to hit that peak age now. You want them be hitting that peak age in approximately three years' time, when you hope to have assembled a group of players capable of challenging for titles.

Achieving that isn't rocket science, you just do what both Arsenal and Liverpool did in order to get to where they are: almost exclusively target players in their early to mid 20's. Old enough to contribute straight away, young enough that they will be in their best years while you're hoping to be winning trophies.

But if you have to err on either side of that ideal age, you absolutely err on the side of signing players in the Hojlund/Yoro age bracket rather than the Casemiro/Varane age bracket.

Because in the former case you know you've secured their peak years, even if it's further ahead then you'd ideally like and you suffer short term. But that's still better than Casemiro/Varane style transfer mistakes, where the (typically more expensive and with less future sell on value) older players you've bought end up being too far past their peak before you've had the chance to build anything, forcing you to commit even more resources to replacing them.
 
sullydnl said:
There's absolutely a peak age balance you want your squad to be at.

The issue is that when you're in a position like ours, you don't want to hit that peak age now. You want them be hitting that peak age in approximately three years' time, when you hope to have assembled a group of players capable of challenging for titles.

Achieving that isn't rocket science, you just do what both Arsenal and Liverpool did in order to get to where they are: almost exclusively target players in their early to mid 20's. Old enough to contribute straight away, young enough that they will be in their best years while you're hoping to be winning trophies.

But if you have to err on either side of that ideal age, you absolutely err on the side of signing players in the Hojlund/Yoro age bracket rather than the Casemiro/Varane age bracket.

Because in the former case you know you've secured their peak years, even if it's further ahead then you'd ideally like and you suffer short term. But that's still better than Casemiro/Varane style transfer mistakes, where the (typically more expensive and with less future sell on value) older players you've bought end up being too far past their peak before you've had the chance to build anything, forcing you to commit even more resources to replacing them.
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I don’t think you can look at it as Casemiro/Varane vs players who peak in a few years time. And Liverpool certainly haven’t. Their current success is built on signing players who were in their peak years from day one. From Salah, VVD and Allison to, more recently, McAllister, Dias, Jota, Szoboslai etc etc. We’ve signed very few players in that bracket recently. The closest would be Ugarte, De Ligt and Mazrouai and it’s no surprise that they’ve all been our best players this season. See also Bruno when we first signed him.
 
Superunknown said:
100% agree. Each of those players you have mentioned should be setting the standard and should be raising the bar for the younger players. Each of our younger players should be looking at those listed and be aspiring to be like them. I think that's another reason why this last decade has been disappointing. The senior players just haven't stepped up enough and led the way.
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This is why I think it is bad when we fans point fingers at the younger players - we should support them and understand that they can become the future backbone of the team, IF they grow to their best. It is the older player that have tried the pressure before, who have to step up and show the way.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don’t think you can look at it as Casemiro/Varane vs players who peak in a few years time. And Liverpool certainly haven’t. Their current success is built on signing players who were in their peak years from day one. From Salah, VVD and Allison to, more recently, McAllister, Dias, Jota, Szoboslai etc etc. We’ve signed very few players in that bracket recently. The closest would be Ugarte, De Ligt and Mazrouai and it’s no surprise that they’ve all been our best players this season. See also Bruno when we first signed him.
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Think you're pretty much agreeing with me?

For Liverpool, almost all the key outfield signings in their rebuild were aged between 23-26 when purchased. Firmino (23), Robertson (23), Jota (23), Mane (24), Fabinho (24), Salah (25), Wijnaldum (25), Diaz (25), Van Dijk (26), etc.

For Arsenal, the age range is around 22-25. Odegaard (22), Gabriel (22), Timber (22), Calafiori (22), White (23), Rice (24), Havertz (24), Zinchenko (25), Jesus (25), etc.

So the ideal age profile for signings is around 22-26, as common sense would suggest really. Almost all your big money outlays should fall with that bracket, as they can contribute to a high level both immediately and long term.

Casmeiro/Varane (28-30) and Hojlund/Yoro (18-20) are signings that fall outside that ideal age range, so should be avoided if possible. Especially for the massive money we spent on them.

But if you have to choose between those two less than ideal age brackets, it should be the Hojlund/Yoro one. Because they will tend to be on lower wages, will tend to have resale value in the future and you at least know for certain their peak years are ahead of them.
 
sullydnl said:
Think you're pretty much agreeing with me?

For Liverpool, almost all the key outfield signings in their rebuild were aged between 23-26 when purchased. Firmino (23), Robertson (23), Jota (23), Mane (24), Fabinho (24), Salah (25), Wijnaldum (25), Diaz (25), Van Dijk (26), etc.

For Arsenal, the age range is around 22-25. Odegaard (22), Gabriel (22), Timber (22), Calafiori (22), White (23), Rice (24), Havertz (24), Zinchenko (25), Jesus (25), etc.

So the ideal age profile for signings is around 22-26, as common sense would suggest really. Almost all your big money outlays should fall with that bracket, as they can contribute to a high level both immediately and long term.

Casmeiro/Varane (28-30) and Hojlund/Yoro (18-20) are signings that fall outside that ideal age range, so should be avoided if possible. Especially for the massive money we spent on them.

But if you have to choose between those two less than ideal age brackets, it should be the Hojlund/Yoro one. Because they will tend to be on lower wages, will tend to have resale value in the future and you at least know for certain their peak years are ahead of them.
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I think I am agreeing with you actually. Although I think there’s an important difference between 22/23 year olds and 24/25 year olds. There’s an element of doubt about long term quality that goes away in most players as the develop between 22 and 25 years old. The fact that Arsenal/Liverpool have signed so many 24/25 year olds and we’ve signed so few is a big factor in them leaving us behind in recent years IMO.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This has been on my mind a lot recently. For the sake of argument let’s assume a peak age player is 25+. And that peak can extend past 30, depending on the player.

I would argue that a team can never be successful without at least two, ideally more, top class and peak age players having a very good season.

If you think about United, post Fergie, that’s happened every time we’ve made the top four. Most recently when Rashford and Casemiro (special mention to Varane) got us into the top three. Peak age Bruno also gave us a boost but unless at least two of them are producing sustained peak performances we’re basically useless.

When Fergie was still in charge the same applied. He always made sure that talented youngsters had peak age players around them to get us across the line. He needed Cantona, Pallister and Bruce to win his first league title. Our last league title would never have happened without Carrick and RvP both simultaneously having one of the best season of their careers.

Liverpool are looking to win the league this season because of a bunch of peak age players doing their peak age thing.

Arsenal under Arteta are interesting in that they lacked peak age players for a few years and endured poor league campaigns but are a force now those players have grown up (along with some peak age signings)

City are also interesting in that Haaland is a brilliant example of a young footballer whose game gets elevated by peak age players (De Bruyne, Rodri) and diminished when they’re unavailable or out of form.

Chelsea have gone all in on “yong and lernin” players by signing the very best that money can buy and I’m willing to bet they won’t win anything until their age profile changes. And bear in mind, no football team anywhere has ever invested so much money in assembling this squad of crazy talented youngsters. So if anyone will ever win something with just a bunch of kids then they have the best chance of doing it.

Signing youngsters appeals to the money men who are obsessed with treating footballers like assets but building a squad that’s full of them is a crap approach to making a successful football team.

Discuss.
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Completely agree. Been saying this for a long time that it is not possible for a club like Manchester United to allow a team comprised of 19-23 year olds to grow together.

If our key players include the likes of Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad and Yoro, we'll get nowhere fast. Not because they lack talent, but because they will make mistakes and be inconsistent which will mean the team being inconsistent and that is not something this fanbase can tolerate, no matter how much they espouse youth.

When the Class of 92 were breaking through, you didn't see all 6 of them starting games together at 19-20 years of age. We had the likes of Keane, Cantona, Irwin, Cole, Pallister etc ensuring a certain level of consistency was maintained.

When Rooney and Ronaldo were coming through they were surrounded by RvN, Ferdinand, Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc ensuring consistency was maintained.

All the senior players I've mentioned were absolutely top quality. We have nowhere near the level of senior players now so it's absolute madness to expect a team of youngsters to be able to deliver. Even if you assume they'll all grow together over the next 2-3 years the fanbase (myself included) will not have the patience to accept finishing midtable year on year until they mature. This is assuming they even are top quality talents which as we see so often in football, looking like a future star at 19-20 doesn't necessarily equate to being a star at 25.

After the 22/23 season, we should have absolutely broken the bank to get at least one of Kane or Rice, instead of getting Hojlund and relying on Mainoo to hold our midfield together. If Ineos are genuinely serious about us mounting a title challenge over the next 2-3 years, we desperately need to supplement the current crop of young players with signings in the 24-26 age range, so that they are not too old when our crop of youngsters peak, but also not so young that they can't immediately contribute in raising the overall level of this team.

And these players shouldn't be bargain buys like Zirkzee, Amrabat or Malacia. They need to be genuine top quality players. The likes of De Ligt and Mazraoui are actually a decent blueprint for the kind of signings we need.
 
King7Eric said:
After the 22/23 season, we should have absolutely broken the bank to get at least one of Kane or Rice, instead of getting Hojlund and relying on Mainoo to hold our midfield together.
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Rice, absolutely. If we had signed him rather than a 30 year old Casemiro we'd be much better off right now. But, as per The Athletic, Casmerio was seen as more "attainable" at the time. Short term saving, long term cost.

Kane, absolutely not. €95M on a 30 year old is exactly the sort of purchase to avoid, and exactly the sort of purchase teams like Liverpool/Arsenal didn't make when digging themselves out of the similar holes they were in. That's a purchase you make if he can bring you major trophies immediately, not when you're years away from that even after having splurged on him.
 
Shocker. Experience matters. In every job, every industry, every walk of life. Balance matters. You need both experience and youth, United has always been about youth but never "just youth".
 
sullydnl said:
Rice, absolutely. If we had signed him rather than a 30 year old Casemiro we'd be much better off right now. But, as per The Athletic, Casmerio was seen as more "attainable" at the time. Short term saving, long term cost.

Kane, absolutely not. €95M on a 30 year old is exactly the sort of purchase to avoid, and exactly the sort of purchase teams like Liverpool/Arsenal didn't make when digging themselves out of the similar holes they were in. That's a purchase you make if he can bring you major trophies immediately, not when you're years away from that even after having splurged on him.
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We had finished 3rd on the back of a decent season where we had broken our trophy drought and Rashford had a career best season. We had 31 year old Casemiro and Varane, 28 year old Shaw and Bruno. If that was not the time to think immediately of trophies, then I don't know what was.

It's the same thing we always do post SAF- half measures. At all instances over the past decade where it's looked like we might have a decent team going into a season, we've always lacked that 1 signing. In 2015 under LVG, we really needed a top quality CF, we signed a 19 year old Martial. Yes he had a great season, but we needed a 30 goal a season striker who could carry the attack.

In 2017 we signed Sanchez 6 months too late by which point any realistic chance at the league was gone. I know he was a disaster but the point is that summer Jose was begging for a LW and we didn't comply until it was too late.

In 2021, we spent all that money on Varane and Ronaldo, while ignoring a no.6 everyone knew we desperately needed.

I don't think we finish 8th last season if we had Kane. ETH was a disaster and I wanted him gone, but Kane would have got us in the top 4 and I don't think we would be where we are this season if we had a player like him. Top quality goalscorers cost a premium because of what they deliver. They can mask many deficiencies in the squad because they dig you out of holes. They might not win you the league but they keep your head above the water. The likes of Salah at Liverpool is a prime example. They wouldn't have come close to so many trophies over the last 5 years if he wasn't there. RVP in the 12/13 season for us is another example.
 
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Oh, you've watched The Athletic FC Guardiola episode with the Young, Peak, Experience graph, haven't you?

 
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