Would the players we have sold defeat the players we have kept?

lex talionis

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The thought had never occurred to me before I had read this: https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-xi-sold-ten-hag-beat-current-team-feature

But in looking at a hypothetical XI...

De Gea
AWB Bailly Mengi Fernandez
Fred McTominay
Greenwood Pereira Sancho
Elenga

...against any XI ETH has available to him today you'd have to say that XI would stand up pretty well against ETH's greatest XI today, whoever that may be, and possibly even a battering.
 
Easily. there are other players as well arnt there?. Henderson. Pogba. Martial.
 
No

The only player there who is an obvious upgrade in quality over what we have is Greenwood

I never watched Fernandez play but I am assuming in this hypothetical one of our LB's is actually alive, unlike the corpses who are currently our LB's
 
Current Utd would have better individual quality but would have Ten Hag in charge, instantly neutralizing any talent advantage and giving the reject team a great chance of beating them badly.
 
lex talionis said:
The thought had never occurred to me before I had read this: https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-xi-sold-ten-hag-beat-current-team-feature

But in looking at a hypothetical XI...

De Gea
AWB Bailly Mengi Fernandez
Fred McTominay
Greenwood Pereira Sancho
Elenga

...against any XI ETH has available to him today you'd have to say that XI would stand up pretty well against ETH's greatest XI today, whoever that may be, and possibly even a battering.
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That's an awfully weak team though the spine. It wouldn't hold up against any PL opposition, really.
 
The only player there that improves the current first XI is Greenwood. Maybe Fernandez as well, since we don't even have a LB fit.

Our current team would beat that team. There is no way that team batters the current team. They're obviously not performing well, but on paper, it's definitely better.
 
lex talionis said:
The thought had never occurred to me before I had read this: https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-xi-sold-ten-hag-beat-current-team-feature

But in looking at a hypothetical XI...

De Gea
AWB Bailly Mengi Fernandez
Fred McTominay
Greenwood Pereira Sancho
Elenga

...against any XI ETH has available to him today you'd have to say that XI would stand up pretty well against ETH's greatest XI today, whoever that may be, and possibly even a battering.
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feck me that is one shite football team you’ve listed there.
As crap as we are, Greenwood’s the only one who’d get a look in from our current squad.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
feck me that is one shite football team you’ve listed there.
As crap as we are, Greenwood’s the only one who’d get a look in from our current squad.
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The serious weakness in the castoff XI is Bailly, but apart from that yes of course there's a good reason we sold all these players, but the point is that we look pretty shite on the pitch and in truth even on paper. The Casemiro of even two years ago destroys the castoff XI by himself, but the Casemiro of today, the Bruno of today, the Rashford of today and so on don't look at all like world-beaters.

Sancho and Greenwood of today over Rashford and Garnacho of today? Definitely. Elanga over Hojlund? Probably. McFred of today over Casemiro and Ugarte of today? Probably.

And as much as we all like to spit on De Gea, we definitely downgraded in the shot-stopping department when we swapped Onana for De Gea. But Onana's footwork is a definite upgrade over De Gea.

But I do like the idea of De Ligt and Martinez over any previous CB pair at OT since Rio and Vidic once they hit top gear...which hasn't happened yet.
 
I've thought along these lines too, would an Ole team beat a ten Hag team.

That it's even a question is depressing having spent over £600m since.
 
Yes, but only if EtH was managing our current lot and anyone else was managing the ex-players.
 
lex talionis said:
The thought had never occurred to me before I had read this: https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-xi-sold-ten-hag-beat-current-team-feature

But in looking at a hypothetical XI...

De Gea
AWB Bailly Mengi Fernandez
Fred McTominay
Greenwood Pereira Sancho
Elenga

...against any XI ETH has available to him today you'd have to say that XI would stand up pretty well against ETH's greatest XI today, whoever that may be, and possibly even a battering.
Click to expand...
Greenwood upfront - Elanga wide

Gomes in for Fred

Some better options than Bailly available Keane, Tuanzebe, Smalling

Decent team, most players operating at PL level but Still undoubtedly lower quality than the current team in all areas bar attack
 
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Not even kind of.

There's very few players im sorry to see go post Ferguson. Maybe evans and welbeck would have been useful players, gomes a useful squad player. That's about it.
 
Definitely not. Our current team is better than that team, assuming both were managed by the same calibre of manager. It's not even that close.
 
Potential players

Gk - De Gea / Henderson

Def - Darmian Smalling Fosu Mensah Bailly Tuanzebe Rojo Blind Willy K. Keane AWB, Mengi, Fernandez.

Mid Zaha Di Maria Sancho Mctominay Fred Andreas Matic Mkhitaryan James, Lingard, Pelistri, Van De Beek Pogba Gomes.

Forwards - Wellbeck Martial Depay Greenwood Ronaldo Lukaku Elanga Cavani

Loans- Sabitzer, Amrabat, Igalho, Weghorst

I think we could easily get a better starting 11 out of that lot and could replace our attack twice over.
 
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Born2Lose said:
I've thought along these lines too, would an Ole team beat a ten Hag team.

That it's even a question is depressing having spent over £600m since.
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During the periods that we were playing well, an Ole team would annihilate this current ETH team. The scoreline would be embarrassing as the attack would rip us apart.

In the periods that we were playing badly, it'd end as an incredibly dire 0-0.
 
Not sure if OP is trolling, that is one hilariously bad team. There is a reason why they are sold! Besides Greenwood who was let go for non-work performance issues, would any of those players even improve our current starting 11?
 
lex talionis said:
The thought had never occurred to me before I had read this: https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-xi-sold-ten-hag-beat-current-team-feature

But in looking at a hypothetical XI...

De Gea
AWB Bailly Mengi Fernandez
Fred McTominay
Greenwood Pereira Sancho
Elenga

...against any XI ETH has available to him today you'd have to say that XI would stand up pretty well against ETH's greatest XI today, whoever that may be, and possibly even a battering.
Click to expand...

De Gea - Onana: No. Short term memory not updated.

AWB - Dalot/Mazraoui: No. Jesus.
Bailly - De Ligt: No. No. No.
Mengi - Martinez/Maguire: Not by a very, very long shot.
Fred - Mainoo: Short term knee jerk Jesus.
McTom - Ugarte/Eriksen/Casemiro: Why?
Voldemort - Garnacho/Diallo: Harry Potter
Pereira - Bruno: STM. Jesusx2
Sancho - Rashford/Garnacho: How long must the grass be on the other side of the fence before it gets a resemblance of green?
Elenga (sic) - Højlund/Zirkzee: No. Not even in Ralf’s world.

Battering? Why so much drama, Drama Queens?
 
Grande said:
De Gea - Onana: No. Short term memory not updated.

AWB - Dalot/Mazraoui: No. Jesus.
Bailly - De Ligt: No. No. No.
Mengi - Martinez/Maguire: Not by a very, very long shot.
Fred - Mainoo: Short term knee jerk Jesus.
McTom - Ugarte/Eriksen/Casemiro: Why?
Voldemort - Garnacho/Diallo: Harry Potter
Pereira - Bruno: STM. Jesusx2
Sancho - Rashford/Garnacho: How long must the grass be on the other side of the fence before it gets a resemblance of green?
Elenga (sic) - Højlund/Zirkzee: No. Not even in Ralf’s world.

Battering? Why so much drama, Drama Queens?
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De Gea/Onana: De Gea was (and is) a substantially, better shot stopper than Onana. De Gea by some distance
AWB/Mazraoui: AWB is the better defender, but Mazraoui is better with the ball...but we really aren't getting as much out of Mazraoui as we should be. Mazraoui by a nose
Bailly/De Ligt: Despite his slow start, De Ligt every day of the week. De Light by some distance
Mengi/Martinez: Martinez, but if we're going to be honest Martinez just hasn't been anywhere close to the same player since his injuries last season. Martinez at peak, but now I'm not so sure
Fred/Mainoo: Mainoo was close to world class for a few months last season but he's come off the boil considerably. Give it to Mainoo but Fred is criminally underrated here.
McTominay/Casemiro: Peak Casemiro blows away peak McTominay but the Casemiro of today is hard to even watch. I haven't seen McTominay at Napoli but I keep reading great things. Tie
Greenwood/Garnacho: We had to let him go, but Greenwood over Garnacho all day long.
Pereira/Bruno: Depends which Bruno we want to talk about. The Bruno today is pale shadow of his peak three season ago and calls for him to dropped are not few. Bruno, but not by that much.
Sancho/Rashford: The Rashford of three seasons ago was a sight to behold but for whatever reason he's fallen apart. Tie
Elanga/Hojlund: I've watched both over the last season and if we're going to be honest, Elanga > Hojlund. But there's still hope for Rasmus. Elanga

Although Onana has improved this season, if we're going by last season's performances for all these players our current XI is arguably worse than the castaway XI, but for a variety of reasons those players had to be sol or let go. The castaway XI has a better keeper, a better striker, but the current XI has a better back line and is probably a wash in midfield -- which got overrun then and gets overrun now, which may have more to do with the manager's tactics than the players to be fair.

However, Onana has vastly improved so far over last season, Rashford has seen a tiny uptick in form and there is hope now for Hojlund although he'll likely be a long term backup striker and never a striker than scores more than 15 goals a season so for us.

Point is, our squad isn't that much stronger, if it all, than it was last season or the season before last.
 
lex talionis said:
De Gea/Onana: De Gea was (and is) a substantially, better shot stopper than Onana. De Gea by some distance
AWB/Mazraoui: AWB is the better defender, but Mazraoui is better with the ball...but we really aren't getting as much out of Mazraoui as we should be. Mazraoui by a nose
Bailly/De Ligt: Despite his slow start, De Ligt every day of the week. De Light by some distance
Mengi/Martinez: Martinez, but if we're going to be honest Martinez just hasn't been anywhere close to the same player since his injuries last season. Martinez at peak, but now I'm not so sure
Fred/Mainoo: Mainoo was close to world class for a few months last season but he's come off the boil considerably. Give it to Mainoo but Fred is criminally underrated here.
McTominay/Casemiro: Peak Casemiro blows away peak McTominay but the Casemiro of today is hard to even watch. I haven't seen McTominay at Napoli but I keep reading great things. Tie
Greenwood/Garnacho: We had to let him go, but Greenwood over Garnacho all day long.
Pereira/Bruno: Depends which Bruno we want to talk about. The Bruno today is pale shadow of his peak three season ago and calls for him to dropped are not few. Bruno, but not by that much.
Sancho/Rashford: The Rashford of three seasons ago was a sight to behold but for whatever reason he's fallen apart. Tie
Elanga/Hojlund: I've watched both over the last season and if we're going to be honest, Elanga > Hojlund. But there's still hope for Rasmus. Elanga

Although Onana has improved this season, if we're going by last season's performances for all these players our current XI is arguably worse than the castaway XI, but for a variety of reasons those players had to be sol or let go. The castaway XI has a better keeper, a better striker, but the current XI has a better back line and is probably a wash in midfield -- which got overrun then and gets overrun now, which may have more to do with the manager's tactics than the players to be fair.

However, Onana has vastly improved so far over last season, Rashford has seen a tiny uptick in form and there is hope now for Hojlund although he'll likely be a long term backup striker and never a striker than scores more than 15 goals a season so for us.

Point is, our squad isn't that much stronger, if it all, than it was last season or the season before last.
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Elanga should never have been sold. Had he stayed his pace and workrate would have added a lot to the team and he would likely have benched Marcus.
 
Elanga isn't even in the first choice eleven for Nottingham Forest at the minute, a team who (despite our awful form) remain worse than us.

Yet some people would start him outside his best positon ahead of an actual (and obviously better) striker who literally scored twice as many league goals as him last season, as well as another striker who was Serie A's young player of the year?

Sometime it's really easy to tell which posters don't actually watch other teams and/or are massive drama queens when it comes to our own team.
 
lex talionis said:
De Gea/Onana: De Gea was (and is) a substantially, better shot stopper than Onana. De Gea by some distance
AWB/Mazraoui: AWB is the better defender, but Mazraoui is better with the ball...but we really aren't getting as much out of Mazraoui as we should be. Mazraoui by a nose
Bailly/De Ligt: Despite his slow start, De Ligt every day of the week. De Light by some distance
Mengi/Martinez: Martinez, but if we're going to be honest Martinez just hasn't been anywhere close to the same player since his injuries last season. Martinez at peak, but now I'm not so sure
Fred/Mainoo: Mainoo was close to world class for a few months last season but he's come off the boil considerably. Give it to Mainoo but Fred is criminally underrated here.
McTominay/Casemiro: Peak Casemiro blows away peak McTominay but the Casemiro of today is hard to even watch. I haven't seen McTominay at Napoli but I keep reading great things. Tie
Greenwood/Garnacho: We had to let him go, but Greenwood over Garnacho all day long.
Pereira/Bruno: Depends which Bruno we want to talk about. The Bruno today is pale shadow of his peak three season ago and calls for him to dropped are not few. Bruno, but not by that much.
Sancho/Rashford: The Rashford of three seasons ago was a sight to behold but for whatever reason he's fallen apart. Tie
Elanga/Hojlund: I've watched both over the last season and if we're going to be honest, Elanga > Hojlund. But there's still hope for Rasmus.

Although Onana has improved this season, if we're going by last season's performances for all these players our current XI is arguably worse than the castaway XI, but for a variety of reasons those players had to be sol or let go. The castaway XI has a better keeper, a better striker, but the current XI has a better back line and is probably a wash in midfield -- which got overrun then and gets overrun now, which may have more to do with the manager's tactics than the players to be fair.

However, Onana has vastly improved so far over last season, Rashford has seen a tiny uptick in form and there is hope now for Hojlund although he'll likely be a long term backup striker and never a striker than scores more than 15 goals a season so for us.

Point is, our squad isn't that much stronger, if it all, than it was last season or the season before last.
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Ok, so suddenly a keeper is only a shot stopper. Even if Onana have stopped far more shots and far more dangerous shots at a far better percentage than De Gea did in his last seasons for United. If we stick to shot stopping.

You’d rather have as a striker Elanga with 5 goals in 47 for Forest, 3 in 19 for Sweden over Højlund who has 17 in 48 for United, 7 in 20 for Denmark. We’d be better off with a striker who has 14 career goals in 127 games …

You’d rather pick ‘hard to watch’ Casemiro over Eriksen and Ugarte, so you can favorably compare McTominay whom you have read about (Trust the others here, we’ve seen him play for United for five years).

You want to insist that Mason Greenwood is a relevant player to Man United, so be it. His 10 goals for Getafe last season doesn’t really blow Garnacho’s 10 for United out of the water anyway. It’s probably the only comparison where you at least have a quarrelsome and hypothetical leg to stand on.

And even awarding you all the silliness above, you end up with three (3) out of 11 players ‘better’ in your Castaway 11, concluding that this indicates it’s a better 11.

It’s at least an improvement on your previous speculation that Elanga and co would ‘batter’ Højlund et al.

Let’s be honest - you’re not really being honest, are you?
 
De Gea over Onana all day long. Not just because the spaniard is a better goalkeeper but the reason why we bought Onana, ten Hag's alleged "sweeper keeper" tactics obviously didn't work at all and Onana isn't the most reliable keeper although he shows some progress. Greenwood shouldn't even be mentioned in the OP, we had to let him go for well known reasons. Fernandez... Who knows, the press is full of rumours saying that he's doing so well in Portugal that he even attracted the interest of top clubs like Real Madrid and Liverpool. Don't know if that's the case but can be as he's a starter in Portugal and according to his ratings he's doing really well. I would have kept McTominay but not as a starter, his workrate, motivation on the pitch could have helped in certain situations but that's it. The rest had been sold for a good reason. Could this hypothetical XI beat the current team? With a good manager for sure. But almost any PL team could regardless of the manager.
 
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Grande said:
Ok, so suddenly a keeper is only a shot stopper. Even if Onana have stopped far more shots and far more dangerous shots at a far better percentage than De Gea did in his last seasons for United. If we stick to shot stopping.

You’d rather have as a striker Elanga with 5 goals in 47 for Forest, 3 in 19 for Sweden over Højlund who has 17 in 48 for United, 7 in 20 for Denmark. We’d be better off with a striker who has 14 career goals in 127 games …

You’d rather pick ‘hard to watch’ Casemiro over Eriksen and Ugarte, so you can favorably compare McTominay whom you have read about (Trust the others here, we’ve seen him play for United for five years).

You want to insist that Mason Greenwood is a relevant player to Man United, so be it. His 10 goals for Getafe last season doesn’t really blow Garnacho’s 10 for United out of the water anyway. It’s probably the only comparison where you at least have a quarrelsome and hypothetical leg to stand on.

And even awarding you all the silliness above, you end up with three (3) out of 11 players ‘better’ in your Castaway 11, concluding that this indicates it’s a better 11.

It’s at least an improvement on your previous speculation that Elanga and co would ‘batter’ Højlund et al.

Let’s be honest - you’re not really being honest, are you?
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Onana was diabolical as a shot stopper last season for us, but so far this season he’s been solid, but it’s still very early in the season and for now we have to use last season’s performances.

I could have compared Ronaldo and Elanga to Hojlund and Zirkzee but that probably would have unfair. So let’s just compare Elanga to Zirkzee. Early days, but Zirkzee doesn’t look a brilliant buy. As for Hojlund, he looks more a bust than an ace but let’s see what he can do this season. They to unlocking many of our players, in my judgment, is a new manager who is more adaptable in his tactics and Hojlund would likely be one of the prime beneficiaries. But there’s no doubt that at least so far that Hojlund and Zirkzee has vastly underperformed to expectations.

Casemiro is a Real legend and there’s no doubt he was brilliant in his first season with us, but last season and so far this season, he looks like a football whose legs are shot, a Muhammad Ali of footballers. But peak Casemiro, which we never had, would be right up there with some of the best CM’s of all time. I’m pretty sure Napoli is not preparing a bid for Casemiro.

There can complaints about selling Greenwood, only laments. But if somehow all that stuff never happened he would be starting for us today and probably would they man in the attack for United and even England.

As for honesty, it’s hard to argue against the proposition that we’re playing progressively worse football from ETH’s first season, which some could blame entirely on ETH but it would be more honest to apportion the blame on both the manager and the players. Whether the difficulty of the adjustment to OT, personal issues, the manager’s tactics or whatever, most of our players played poorly most games of last season. I have no idea why Rashford, for example, performed as poorly as he did, but he did perform poorly. Others like Garnacho one can attribute to growing pains in a tough league that’s now aware of him. The players we cut loose over the last two seasons who are thriving elsewhere needed to be cut loose for a variety of reasons but it would be hard to argue that the squad is stronger now than it was one or two seasons ago, not just when one looks at the quality of our performances but also when one looks at our position in the table.
 
Depends what kit they're wearing.

If the sold players wear a United away kit and the current players wear a home kit, you'll see a huge shit show. If the sold players wear a Fulham kit they will control the midfield and pick us off easily.
 
Both teams would play out a boring 0-0. I don't think one team is particularly better than the other. Seeing people write so many good things about Pogba and Martial amazes me.
 
sullydnl said:
Elanga isn't even in the first choice eleven for Nottingham Forest at the minute, a team who (despite our awful form) remain worse than us.

Yet some people would start him outside his best positon ahead of an actual (and obviously better) striker who literally scored twice as many league goals as him last season, as well as another striker who was Serie A's young player of the year?

Sometime it's really easy to tell which posters don't actually watch other teams and/or are massive drama queens when it comes to our own team.
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Newcastle bid £50m+ for him on deadline day so his value has 3x since he left UTD. Rashford’s value has fallen over that period. Rashford has more natural ability but Elangais a better team player.
 
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