Wine Draft R1: TRV vs Gio

With players at their peak, who would win?

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
9,568
TRV

KAzDcvD.png


Gio

Inter-2.png


TRV Tactics

THE TEAM

We will play a 4-4-2 with a Magic Square midfield. We will look to dominate the possession with everyone in the team being extremely good and creative on the ball. Busquets will be the holding midfielder/controller. Tigana ahead of him will play in his natural box-to-box midfielder role where he will provide the team with his high energy, intensity and engine in the midfield. Deco was an excellent playmmaker who was great at linking up the midfield with the attack but also possessed very good work-rate. He will be the secondary play-maker to Rivera in the team, who will be playing in his natural no 10 role behind the attack. All the 4 midfielders are excellent at retaining the possession, be it playing in tight spaces or passing out and then making themselves available for passes again. So they will thrive in a pass & move style of play where with their deft touches and passes, they can link-up with each other and also the attack. In Henry and Eusébio, we have two gun-men upfront, who with the pace and trickery can run the channels and stretch the opposition defense, but at the same time both were excellent at dropping deep and linking up with the midfield for quick 1-2s and making incisive runs into the final third. Width will be provided by the two attacking full-backs, Zambrotta and Gordillo.

Gio Tactics

IL GRANDE INTER BLUEPRINT
The team follows the tactical blueprint laid out by Helenio Herrera's Grande Inter side of the 1960s which won 3 Serie A titles, the European Cup twice in '64 and '65 and were runners-up in '67, as well as 2 intercontinental cups.

616653_F_C__Internazionale.jpg


The same shape and counter-attacking catenaccio is in play here.

The all-conquering Juventus and Italy trio of the late 1970s and early 1980s adopt the same roles as during their greatest achievements. Dino Zoff (Sarti) is a formidable presence in goals with Geatano Scirea (Picchi) acting as libero ahead, with his trusted lieutenant Claudio Gentile (Burgnich) to his right on man-marking duties. The defence is bolstered by no less than Paulo Maldini (Guarneri) who rounds off the back 3 unit as a hybrid full-back / centre-back. Ahead the rock Marcel Desailly (Bedin) shields the defence, and to his left Vincent Candela (Facchetti) offers energy, legs and box-to-box drive.

Taking command from the centre is Luis Suarez who takes on the same role as he did for Herrera's side. He is supported to his left by David Silva (Corso) whose quick feet and ability to peel wide enables the team to progress fluidly and quickly into attacking areas. On the right is Bruno Conti (Jair) assuming a similar role to his Italy '82 heroics, bringing flank graft and sharp counter-attacking interplay in central areas.

In attack the productive national team partnership of Alessandro Del Piero (Mazzola) and Christian Vieri (Peiro) is renewed - the smooth, technical quality of ADP well-complimented by the raw physicality and directness of Vieri. Both were well versed in playing and excelling in counter-attacking football.

Tactical points for the game:
  • TRV has drafted well as ever and, recognising the pace of the attack, we will defend deeply and look to counter-attack. This allows us to play true to the theme. The advantage of defending deep is minimising the space in behind for Eusebio and Henry in particular. Irregardless the calibre of our defensive set-up should minimise their opportunities. Furthermore a narrower attack allows Gentile and Maldini to tuck in next to Scirea - forming a solid and well-balanced defensive core which will cut-off space for TRVs attack through the middle.
  • The sheer work rate from the entire team ensures we can play an effective counter-attacking game. Every player was known for their energy and defensive discipline. In Desailly we have arguably the most effective pure defensive midfielder of all time and his physicality and ball-winning should help minimise TRV offensively.
  • Herrera argues his Grande Inter wasn't just defensive and, particularly when Suarez and Corso were available, was very progressive. At their peak in 64/65, they trounced Liverpool 3-0, Rangers 3-1 and Dinamo Bucharest 6-0, and scored 16 goals more than anyone else in Serie A. The plan here is for Suarez to dictate the game with the rock-solid platform behind him and the complementary and progressive options alongside in Silva and Conti. Both of whom blend a tactically astute defensive game with silk and craft going forwards to create space for Del Piero and Vieri (6 goals in 8 starts against Cannavaro) to hit.
 
For TRV, well draft as usual. Can't see any significant weakness in your team

For Gio, well I would say you do a perfect job of remaking Grande's Inter. Agree about Conti, he seems to be a perfect fit in a Zona Mista as right-wing. Silva is generally great as a representative of Corso too.
 
Tough.

Perfect recreation of Grande Inter by Gio. I had some second thoughts about Del Piero but after watching some Mazzola videos, he certainly is a great fit there. Silva is quite an inspirational pick. Love it.

As to TRV, a flawless team. Love the Henry - Eusebio attack. Barca Deco is a great fit too.

I can see Zambrotta - Eusebio being very effective vs Candela but Maldini and that compact defense is hard to beat.

Will think more.
 
First thing first. Gio's defense is indeed elite. A great re-incarnation or La Grande Inter.

However, I feel like I have got the team and the set-up that can exploit the few weaknesses it possess and thrive vs him. With the magic square midfield, we will outnumber his midfield and with the players we have got should dominate the possession and game comfortably. Like @Edgar Allan Pillow said, Eusebio and Zambrotta would give Candela all sorts of problem. Yes, he has Maldini helping him out and Maldini would do a solid job of restricting Eusebio's influence. But considering how possession we would be having and the fact that the team has a playmaker in every zone of the pitch, be it Blanc and Busquets from deep in our half, Deco and Rivera in midfield and final third, all of whom were great at finding the openings with their passing, even the great Maldini would have a task in his hand.

But for me, the main deciding factor of this game would be Henry vs Gentile. That pace of Henry vs Gentile would simply be way too much for Gentile to handle. Especially when Henry drops deep to link-up with a Rivera, Deco, Tigana or Gordillo. One swift 1-2 and Gentile would be left chasing shadows. And considering the structure of Gio's team and the palyers he has, Desailly aside no one really is offering much resistance or running in that midfield. Rivera, Tigana and Deco would simply be too much for Desailly to cover.
 
The Red Viper said:
First thing first. Gio's defense is indeed elite. A great re-incarnation or La Grande Inter.

However, I feel like I have got the team and the set-up that can exploit the few weaknesses it possess and thrive vs him. With the magic square midfield, we will outnumber his midfield and with the players we have got should dominate the possession and game comfortably. Like @Edgar Allan Pillow said, Eusebio and Zambrotta would give Candela all sorts of problem. Yes, he has Maldini helping him out and Maldini would do a solid job of restricting Eusebio's influence. But considering how possession we would be having and the fact that the team has a playmaker in every zone of the pitch, be it Blanc and Busquets from deep in our half, Deco and Rivera in midfield and final third, all of whom were great at finding the openings with their passing, even the great Maldini would have a task in his hand.

But for me, the main deciding factor of this game would be Henry vs Gentile. That pace of Henry vs Gentile would simply be way too much for Gentile to handle. Especially when Henry drops deep to link-up with a Rivera, Deco, Tigana or Gordillo. One swift 1-2 and Gentile would be left chasing shadows. And considering the structure of Gio's team and the palyers he has, Desailly aside no one really is offering much resistance or running in that midfield. Rivera, Tigana and Deco would simply be too much for Desailly to cover.
Click to expand...
In midfield we can more than match your numbers there with Desailly, Suarez, Silva plus both Conti and Del Piero contributing as the phase requires. And from there I would certainly contest your assessment of my midfielders:
  • Marcel Desailly is undoubtedly the most defensively robust and physical midfielder on the park.
  • Luis Suarez thrived under Herrera's defensive system, not as a lazy playmaker, but as a proper all-rounder who got stuck in and worked his socks off the ball. He went toe-to-toe with a defensive monster in Voronin in the 1964 Euros Final and still came out with the trophy and a man-of-the-match award to boot.
  • David Silva basically redefined what a silky midfielder could do in the English Premier League. In bygone times such a player may have, stereotypically, been perceived as a liability off the ball, but his energetic pressing in the centre of midfield for City helped them to transform into the all-conquering machine that dominate the league. And it was much the same at Valencia where the 4-2-3-1 system demanded he tracked back into a compact defensive shape.
  • Bruno Conti is one of the hardest working wingers of all time. As we saw in '82, he was a proper two-way player who could man a flank and still provide craft and creativity in possession. Many people rated him as the player of the tournament in Spain.
If anything I believe it's a combination that will cause Busquets, Deco, Tigana and Rivera problems off the ball. Collectively that isn't offering masses of resistance in a counter-attacking scenario when space opens up.
 
Last edited:
The Red Viper said:
Like @Edgar Allan Pillow said, Eusebio and Zambrotta would give Candela all sorts of problem. Yes, he has Maldini helping him out and Maldini would do a solid job of restricting Eusebio's influence.
Click to expand...
Well if Eusebio is dropping so deep that he is mostly up against Candela, I'm fine with that as it shows we are keeping the main threats a long way away from goal. I imagine it will be mostly Candela and Zambrotta duelling it out and I'm more than happy with Candela, as the purest box-to-box wing-back of the two, containing that situation, whilst helping out with the defensive unit as and when required. Maldini and Eusebio would be a tremendous battle and, to be honest, I don't think I'd choose anyone else for that job on that side of the defence.

pace of Henry vs Gentile would simply be way too much for Gentile to handle. Especially when Henry drops deep to link-up with a Rivera, Deco, Tigana or Gordillo. One swift 1-2 and Gentile would be left chasing shadows.
Click to expand...
A situation we have thankfully prepared for as spelled out in the OP. We defend deeper to reduce Henry's threat, making the park smaller to counter his strengths. And, like Eusebio, happy to see Henry drop deep himself, as it brings him into a congested zone where his own top speed is somewhat neutered. But I like Gentile's diligence and his irrepressible and annoying style of defending would mentally frustrate Henry. Granted, once or twice during the game, he might be able to get the run on him, but in that scenario we have Gaetano Scirea reading the danger and sweeping up. Frankly, I find it hard to envisage much of a stronger defensive set-up to counter your attack here - with Scirea providing that insurance cover - ahead of his club and country partner Zoff - and Desailly no less shielding the defence ahead. All high quality and natural fits, but there are proven synergies there with the Juventus/Italy axis of Zoff-Scirea-Gentile and the Milan tandem of Maldini-Desailly which enhance the cohesion up another notch again.
 
One point worth considering is the quality comparison between the goalkeepers: Zoff against Zubizuretta. Dino Zoff, 2nd in the 1973 Ballon D'Or and arguably one of the most impressive second places of all time. Behind prime Cruyff, Zoff came ahead of Muller in 3rd who had a preposterous year with 85 goals and a Euros win (as did Beckenbauer in 4th). He’s well matched here with his World Cup winning partners Gentile and Scirea, with Maldini and Desailly adding more defensive oomph to that ‘82 back-line.
 
Gio said:
In midfield we can more than match your numbers there with Desailly, Suarez, Silva plus both Conti and Del Piero contributing as the phase requires. And from there I would certainly contest your assessment of my midfielders:
  • Marcel Desailly is undoubtedly the most defensively robust and physical midfielder on the park.
  • Luis Suarez thrived under Herrera's defensive system, not as a lazy playmaker, but as a proper all-rounder who got stuck in and worked his socks off the ball. He went toe-to-toe with a defensive monster in Voronin in the 1964 Euros Final and still came out with the trophy and a man-of-the-match award to boot.
  • David Silva basically redefined what a silky midfielder could do in the English Premier League. In bygone times such a player may have, stereotypically, been perceived as a liability off the ball, but his energetic pressing in the centre of midfield for City helped them to transform into the all-conquering machine that dominate the league. And it was much the same at Valencia where the 4-2-3-1 system demanded he tracked back into a compact defensive shape.
  • Bruno Conti is one of the hardest working wingers of all time. As we saw in '82, he was a proper two-way player who could man a flank and still provide craft and creativity in possession. Many people rated him as the player of the tournament in Spain.
If anything I believe it's a combination that will cause Busquets, Deco, Tigana and Rivera problems off the ball. Collectively that isn't offering masses of resistance in a counter-attacking scenario when space opens up.
Click to expand...

I didn't say Suarez was a lazy playmaker. Just that he wasn't really someone who can restrict say someone like a Deco when he is opposition third.

Football as a whole has changed from what it was in 60s and 70s. Teams nowadays are faster and more physical. That isn't to say someone like a Suarez won't do well in today's game. He definitely would but those days you can use him deep and be fine because teams set-up differently. In today's game, I would use Suarez alongside a DM like a Desailly and a more box-to-box midfielder like say a Vieira or Tigana or even someone hard-working CM like a Ballack. Desailly can't be in two places. He can't be marking Rivera and then Deco or even Tigana when he makes late runs into the box.

On the break, Conti and AdP would be a problem for sure. But with Canna's pace at the back and Busi always sitting in front of the defense to sweep up the counters, along with the pace and engine of Zambrotta and Tigana in transition phase, the team has players who can restrict your main threats on the break. Vieri was good and as was ADP but they aren't exactly speed demons like Henry, Mbappe, Ronaldo etc who will tear you to shreds on the break.
 
Gio said:
Well if Eusebio is dropping so deep that he is mostly up against Candela, I'm fine with that as it shows we are keeping the main threats a long way away from goal. I imagine it will be mostly Candela and Zambrotta duelling it out and I'm more than happy with Candela, as the purest box-to-box wing-back of the two, containing that situation, whilst helping out with the defensive unit as and when required. Maldini and Eusebio would be a tremendous battle and, to be honest, I don't think I'd choose anyone else for that job on that side of the defence.


A situation we have thankfully prepared for as spelled out in the OP. We defend deeper to reduce Henry's threat, making the park smaller to counter his strengths. And, like Eusebio, happy to see Henry drop deep himself, as it brings him into a congested zone where his own top speed is somewhat neutered. But I like Gentile's diligence and his irrepressible and annoying style of defending would mentally frustrate Henry. Granted, once or twice during the game, he might be able to get the run on him, but in that scenario we have Gaetano Scirea reading the danger and sweeping up. Frankly, I find it hard to envisage much of a stronger defensive set-up to counter your attack here - with Scirea providing that insurance cover - ahead of his club and country partner Zoff - and Desailly no less shielding the defence ahead. All high quality and natural fits, but there are proven synergies there with the Juventus/Italy axis of Zoff-Scirea-Gentile and the Milan tandem of Maldini-Desailly which enhance the cohesion up another notch again.
Click to expand...

Zambrotta is comfortably better than Candela, man. He will easily win that duel vs Candela.

As for Gentile frustrating Henry, sure, he can if he resorts to his usual shenanigans but even then I can't see him effectively restricting Henry. Henry at his physical peak was causing all sorts of chaos vs that Italian defense of Cannavaro, Nesta, Maldini, Iuliano etc. The moment there is any open space, Gentile will be like a deer in headlights.




And Henry dropping deep won't exactly bring him into a congested zone. You're essentially playing a 2-man central midfield with one of them being Suarez who wasn't a lazy bastard but not someone who can restrict creative attacking players during the defensive phases.
 
Also, its a small thing. But using AdP on the right zone instead of left is wrong, bro. :wenger:
 
The Red Viper said:
Also, its a small thing. But using AdP on the right zone instead of left is wrong, bro. :wenger:
Click to expand...
Might be worth watching their partnership for the Italian national team. They’ll play as a two and both have very complementary movement. Vieri was always great at stretching the play and working across the front line (look at his assist for Del Piero against Brazil for example below). Del Piero will play off him, floating in between the lines, dropping into spaces either side of Busquets, which is very consistent with how they operated for the national team. Together they:
  • Were unbeaten in 27 out of 29 competitive games they started together
  • Provided a goal or assist every 65 minutes




F9YhKt6XoAAxuY9
 
The Red Viper said:
Zambrotta is comfortably better than Candela, man. He will easily win that duel vs Candela.
Click to expand...
I think you’re considerably underestimating Candela. He was one of Roma’s most influential players and his wing-back partnership with Cafu was the best around. The fact he reached 40 caps for France while his international career ran in parallel to Lizarazu was testament to how good he was and he wasn’t that far behind the great man. By comparison Zambrotta’s competition for Italy was a few notches below during the 2000s.

It’s perhaps worth asking neutrals on this one so here are their three best seasons in Serie A as rated by the Italian sports media:

Candela

SeasonRatingPosition Rank
99/006.501st
97/986.331st
01/026.215th

Zambrotta

Season Rating Position Rank
04/056.261st (LB)
00/016.194th
99/006.195th
 
@Gio

With Il Grande Inter, I know they played man rather than zonal marking, but in the defensive phase would it resemble a 4411. Or is it more a 532 with Conti shifting to RWB. Given you are play deep I'm trying to visualise your shape.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Gio

With Il Grande Inter, I know they played man rather than zonal marking, but in the defensive phase would it resemble a 4411. Or is it more a 532 with Conti shifting to RWB. Given you are play deep I'm trying to visualise your shape.
Click to expand...
The majority of teams at that time used a man-marking system but Grande Inter used a mixture of zonal and man-marking - Bedin or Tagnin (who played a similar role positionally to Desailly here) would clearly man-mark but Picchi definitely wouldn’t and someone like Suarez was a bit of both. The clearer principle with Grande Inter was defending deep and minimising space between the lines to launch counter attacks - with plays like Jair, Facchetti or Mazzola all devastating on the break.

Shape wise it will change throughout the game but generally I expect Gentile to tuck in narrower given the lack of a width in that attack - Conti would then have responsibility of tracking the fullback (which he would relish) so at times it would look more like a back-five. In reality though I expect Gordillo to spend just as much time running the other way as Conti (probably the best Italian winger of all time) and Del Piero (in his world-beating pre-injury form) look a massive threat in that right side against Gordillo and Blanc. I rate both highly, but with our counter-attacking and TRV's approach teasing both high (and with Gordillo pushing up in possession still), that side of the defence can be got at.

For example, a Vieri goal like this is feasible:



Where we'd win the ball back and spring a counter. Now that could be short interplay between Suarez, Silva, Conti and Del Piero, or in this scenario a more direct threaded ball to release Vieri. That's exactly the sort of stuff Suarez and Il Grande Inter did for years on end.

ita.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.