Will Keane's return affect Veron's plays?

RUnited

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Phil & Fortune who have partnered Veron in the middle haven't interfered with his build up..

But we all know Keane likes to bring the ball up and make the plays - will this be a problem for Veron when he returns?

I'm also quite curious if Becks can make it work with Veron. when Ole stayed out wide he also didn't interfere with Veron - but we all know how much becks like to push inside.

IMO Veron has had an opportunity to play with open field in the middle.. with Keane and Becks back they could create traffic inside again..

any opinions?
 
it'll be very interesting to find out indeed.

will be a tricky one against Blackburn IMO. Cole just got the double over the weekend, his confidence will be running high.
 
hopefully not,
Keane should just slot into Phils place and hopefuly they'll be able to gel together.
What potential that midfield has,

keane veron
-Scholes--

has everything, skill, strength, experience, goals, power :cool:
 
I agree.. hopefully Keane will stick the defensive game as he said a few weeks ago..

altho i'm quite concerned about Beck's presence. Ole played his position on RW and stuck to it throughout the minutes he played, but Becks still hasn't really grasped that concept. I'm afraid it will lessen Veron's space in midfield to create something.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Keane & Becks will fit in as well as Phil and Ole can.
 
I thought Becks looked like a Sunday League player at times yesterday. Slow as feck, running around like a headless chicken and not much vision i'm afraid. He needs to stick to crossing the ball from the touchline if you ask me.
 
Originally posted by JSV:
<strong>I thought Becks looked like a Sunday League player at times yesterday. Slow as feck, running around like a headless chicken and not much vision i'm afraid. He needs to stick to crossing the ball from the touchline if you ask me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i won't argue with you that he needs to stick to crossing the ball..

but he certainly isn't a headless chicken.. he worked tirelessly in the WHU game from what i saw.. i didn't see United play last night, but i'm guessing that Becks did what you said because he's just gotten back from injury.. we have to give him sometime to adjust.

Becks has always been one to put in the work-rate.. altho his contribution isn't exactly what is required of him i still think he's a very very valuable player for us.

If he sticks to his right wing i think we'll go very far this year.
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Originally posted by JSV:
<strong>I thought Becks looked like a Sunday League player at times yesterday. Slow as feck, running around like a headless chicken and not much vision i'm afraid. He needs to stick to crossing the ball from the touchline if you ask me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You got it right, he runs around too much. This free role, him playing in the middle is wrong.

Anyways, the results lately speak for themselfs, the players coming in have to adapt. Should stay on the wing.
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Keano has changed a little of his game before he injured. With Scholes in the midfield Keano can just remain in front of the backline to tackle and link up. But if it is Veron in the midfield he can become more mobile and get forward more. So I think it's no problem even after Keano returns.
 
Originally posted by AhmedDimwitson:
<strong>

You got it right, he runs around too much. This free role, him playing in the middle is wrong.

Anyways, the results lately speak for themselfs, the players coming in have to adapt. Should stay on the wing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It looks like nowadays every thread can eventually turn into a Beckham-slagging thread.
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There is no reason why Keane's return should damage Veron's play. Yes Keane likes more of the ball than Fortune and Phil but two world class pros like Roy and Seba should be able to work central midfield together. Its a mouth watering prospect if they gel.
 
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

It looks like nowadays every thread can eventually turn into a Beckham-slagging thread.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Which is a great pity because he's a wonderful player. He may not have been quite on his game last night but he still linked up well with Diego for the goal and the near miss at the end. As with Roy, I think Becks is going to have to curb his game a little to allow Veron to continue to express himself. But why should he replace Ole at present particularly as the latter has performed so well and given arguably more shape to the midfield/attack ? Personally I would not break up the current team to accommodate anyone. There will be plenty of opportunities through injuries or players needing to be rested at some stage. The fact remains that this team with Neville and Fortune before him linking up with Veron has outperformed anything else we've done this season and indeed last. Of course a case can be put for the automatic inclusion of Keane when he is fit but Fergie's going to have to be very careful about upsetting Seba's game just as he is beginning to produce the goods. The argument that Keane and Becks together in the same team as Veron can cramp the latter's effectiveness is not totally invalid although you would expect great players to adapt ie Roy to play more of a holding role and Becks to stay on the right, if he is to replace Ole and not to cut infield quite so much. Then you have the highly motivated and effective Phil Neville who really shouldn't be asked to step aside at the moment. Rio is another problem, after all you don't want to leave your 30m pound star out of the side when he's fully fit. Then again why break up the Brown/ Silvestre partnership for no reason ? Where this all leaves Nicky Butt is open to question. Obviously everyone will get a chance and you need a quality squad to compete on all fronts as we are now doing this season.

It's a dilemma for Fergie but a good one all the same.
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Originally posted by Julian Denny:
<strong>

Which is a great pity because he's a wonderful player. He may not have been quite on his game last night but he still linked up well with Diego for the goal and the near miss at the end. As with Roy, I think Becks is going to have to curb his game a little to allow Veron to continue to express himself. But why should he replace Ole at present particularly as the latter has performed so well and given arguably more shape to the midfield/attack ? Personally I would not break up the current team to accommodate anyone. There will be plenty of opportunities through injuries or players needing to be rested at some stage. The fact remains that this team with Neville and Fortune before him linking up with Veron has outperformed anything else we've done this season and indeed last. Of course a case can be put for the automatic inclusion of Keane when he is fit but Fergie's going to have to be very careful about upsetting Seba's game just as he is beginning to produce the goods. The argument that Keane and Becks together in the same team as Veron can cramp the latter's effectiveness is not totally invalid although you would expect great players to adapt ie Roy to play more of a holding role and Becks to stay on the right, if he is to replace Ole and not to cut infield quite so much. Then you have the highly motivated and effective Phil Neville who really shouldn't be asked to step aside at the moment. Rio is another problem, after all you don't want to leave your 30m pound star out of the side when he's fully fit. Then again why break up the Brown/ Silvestre partnership for no reason ? Where this all leaves Nicky Butt is open to question. Obviously everyone will get a chance and you need a quality squad to compete on all fronts as we are now doing this season.

It's a dilemma for Fergie but a good one all the same.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I pretty much agree with that Julian. IMO only Keane should return automatically. We know he can play the hold role better than anyone and he simply has more to offer than Phil (who has done brilliant for us).

Ole should stay on the right. Brown/Silvestre should stay in central defence. The rest of the lads have to work for their place. Bex/Rio/Blanc should all have to work for their places. Its a great position to be in isn't? The likes of Beckham and Ferdinand hungry for their places in the starting line up. We're going to see a really fired up Man Utd for the rest of the season <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
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The big games will be coming thick and fast after christmas and SAF now knows that he can alternate the midfield/defence and has partnerships that he can trust. Seba is out for the Juve game but Keano will be back, some replacement huh! :D
 
When last they played together it clearly wasnt working for Seba, and Keano's not the sort to put with poor performances from his team.

Now though, having watched what Veron can really do from the stands he should come back with more respect for him. Its a shame for Phil, but Keane will take over that role soon enough.

At least Phil's had a good run and proved a lot people wrong about him. He's been superb.
 
Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>

Its a great position to be in isn't? The likes of Beckham and Ferdinand hungry for their places in the starting line up. We're going to see a really fired up Man Utd for the rest of the season <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
It's really beginning to look good for an exciting 2003. If we can keep the same appetite for the so-called 'lesser' games in the Premiership this squad can start to steam-roller teams. IMO every player has to fight for his place in this team. Micky in particular has been superb at CH so Rio will just have to bide his time.

I think the Becks/Ole debate is a bit misinformed really though. What you get with Ole is someone who will play on the right but drift inside into the box sometimes (like he did when he scored vs West Ham) and the downside that Ole doesn't track back as much as Becks does so leaves Gaz a bit exposed, we've seen that a few times recently, typically Phil has to come across to help out. With Becks, I would say that he does work the wing but comes inside in the opposition half sometimes. I haven't noticed him getting in Veron's way so much, Seba tends to work deeper [Jesus, what a pass to Scholesy last night!]. Prospect of a settled back four and a midfield with a mix of creativity, work rate and steel and Van the Man up front, I just can't wait! Where are the nay-sayers now???

<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
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This situation we are in now is just great! <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Only If the defence becomes shaky again. If thing remain as the are I think fergioe will go back to his early seaon experiment of Keano supportting Ruud and Scholes upfront at every oportunuty. that would certainly leave Veron to control the midfield.
 
there is no doubt veron needs to be partnered by a defensive midfielder and Keano can do that well.

Phil has done superb but keano is better so we will improve once he is back.
 
I don't see why people think Keane is the reason for Veron's problems. Seba has played well with Keane alongside him before (especially the start of the last) or terribley with Phil (the derby especially).

The current Seba would do well alongside anyone.
 
This is ridiculous,Seba has only got his act together over the last 4 or 5 games,Keane has been out for 3 months!It has nothing to do with Keanes abscence,something has just clicked in Verons head,alleyed with the combined excellence of our defence,allowing the midfield to prosper.The confidence in the team is down to the excellence of our defence,it should not be changed.In regards to Keane,he walks into the team as soon as he is fit to do so.Why? Because he has been or best player for the last 6 years,and because he is the best midfield player in the world today and has been for years.
 
When a team plays well, everyone is a good player
but when the team doesn't do well on the pitch, Keane is the one who will make all the effort to drag you out
 
I think what RUnited meant was, when Keano was playing, he was pulling the strings in midfield. The defense would play the ball to him when they won it.

Now Veron's doing the same superbly as well, what would happen when both are playing? Ideally, Keano would be the holding player i.e. Charlie years back; and Veron making all the incisive passes.... :D
 
In my opinion, Keano will definitely recure his place because he is the best, probably in the world ;) , at his position. If Scholes does not like playing as supporting attacker, he have to fight w Veron to seize another place at the central field.

Rio should be in starting-line too, he can be as good as Wes in defence but surely better in attack.

A question about Becks & Ole, I myself prefer to see Becks back, but as Ole are playing very well now, Becks should prove himself more and more when he has a chance.


My formattion:

--------- Barthez ----------
Gary -- Rio -- Silv -- O'Shea
---- Keane ---- Veron ------
- Becks - Scholes - Giggs -
----------- Ruud -----------
 
either way fergie will get the blame if we play badly or loose.
If he plays keane and we loose, we'll have the "he disrupts verons play", if he doesnt play keane and we play badly we'll have the "why didnt fergie play keane, what an idiot"

:rolleyes:

m formation:

My formattion:
--------- Barthez ----------
Gary -- Wes -- Silv -- O'Shea
---- Keane ---- Veron ------
- Ole - Scholes - Giggs -
----------- Ruud -----------

And if wes or mickey play badly, sub on Rio. If we are strolling it, take of keane, so not to rush him into it, for phil.
 
Originally posted by thangtbt:
<strong>In My formattion:

--------- Barthez ----------
Gary -- Rio -- Silv -- O'Shea
---- Keane ---- Veron ------
- Becks - Scholes - Giggs -
----------- Ruud -----------</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do like this, bit hard on Ole, but with subs:
Ricardo/Carroll, Ole, Butt, Wes, and one of Phil/Richardson/new striker depending on what sort of game it is... well it looks pretty good to me!

<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
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in a perfect world wouldn't it be great if veron keane and becks could complement each others style of play? why can't it just happen!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by phunky:
<strong>I think what RUnited meant was, when Keano was playing, he was pulling the strings in midfield. The defense would play the ball to him when they won it.

Now Veron's doing the same superbly as well, what would happen when both are playing? Ideally, Keano would be the holding player i.e. Charlie years back; and Veron making all the incisive passes.... :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

spot on mate :cool:
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Originally posted by VanNistlerater:
<strong>either way fergie will get the blame if we play badly or loose.
If he plays keane and we loose, we'll have the "he disrupts verons play", if he doesnt play keane and we play badly we'll have the "why didnt fergie play keane, what an idiot"

:rolleyes:
</strong><hr></blockquote>

i think you're off there..

keane isn't playing at the moment and we have beaten 2 pretenders of the league title, one of the CL, + Newcastle & Chelsea.. that says enough about the quality of the team at the moment.

My only question was, can Veron fit in with Keane - because both of them seem to love doing pretty much the same thing, which is taking the ball from the defence and turn on the attacking tide. Will 2 playmakers in the team make a right? And you might want to add Becks to the equation, with the style of play he has put on, you'd have thought he was another playmaker as well. So that's 3 playmakers in the team.

Keane said in some interview that he plans to come back a more defensive player, i think that'll be the best option considering how things are going at the moment. No matter what anyone says, we HAVE to make use of the 28m spent on Veron - even if it comes at a cost of relieving Keane from his playmaking position. And most posters in the forum would also agree that Becks need to stay out wide.

Either way, i think we'll be fine - as long as they can compliment each other.

It would be a shame if Giggs-Veron-Phil-Ole can do a better job than Giggs-Veron-Keane-Becks.
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Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>Phil & Fortune who have partnered Veron in the middle haven't interfered with his build up..

But we all know Keane likes to bring the ball up and make the plays - will this be a problem for Veron when he returns?

I'm also quite curious if Becks can make it work with Veron. when Ole stayed out wide he also didn't interfere with Veron - but we all know how much becks like to push inside.

IMO Veron has had an opportunity to play with open field in the middle.. with Keane and Becks back they could create traffic inside again..

any opinions?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The way I see things is that Veron has somewhat laid down the things that were troubling him at the beginning of his Old Trafford career. He was besieged with a number of issues, I cannot really enumerate what or why. But, it showed in his lack of passion on the field. Something that has remarkably turned around recently. And I think it is this hunger and determination that will see to it that Veron is not eclipsed by any Keane/Beckham or anybody else. It is not as if Keane will try to tackle someone who is closer to Veron than him when Veron himself is going for the tackle. No, I think, whoever plays in the side, provided egos don't clash in the game, (which I don't expect - what with everyone showing what kind of team spirit reigns in our team) anyone playing for United is going to make United look better.
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Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
It would be a shame if Giggs-Veron-Phil-Ole can do a better job than Giggs-Veron-Keane-Becks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would not say that it would be a shame. It would be a sign of players stepping up. And I would feel mighty proud of the fact that we can put a 'second string' team and even then outplay 'The Best in Europe' (Arsenal, Liverpool, Deportivo). I feel mightily proud of this. Credit to the players.
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Originally posted by Vinay:
<strong>

I would not say that it would be a shame. It would be a sign of players stepping up. And I would feel mighty proud of the fact that we can put a 'second string' team and even then outplay 'The Best in Europe' (Arsenal, Liverpool, Deportivo). I feel mightily proud of this. Credit to the players.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree.. but obviously you would want the highly-rated players to perform to the standard required by OT. This is important. When i said shame i meant for the player themselves.. Keane and Becks should be ashamed if they can't help United continue what they have done with Phil and Ole.

One is the team captain, looked up by all the fans. The other is the England captain, so much is expected of him.
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Originally posted by Vinay:
<strong>

The way I see things is that Veron has somewhat laid down the things that were troubling him at the beginning of his Old Trafford career. He was besieged with a number of issues, I cannot really enumerate what or why. But, it showed in his lack of passion on the field. Something that has remarkably turned around recently. And I think it is this hunger and determination that will see to it that Veron is not eclipsed by any Keane/Beckham or anybody else. It is not as if Keane will try to tackle someone who is closer to Veron than him when Veron himself is going for the tackle. No, I think, whoever plays in the side, provided egos don't clash in the game, (which I don't expect - what with everyone showing what kind of team spirit reigns in our team) anyone playing for United is going to make United look better.</strong><hr></blockquote>

great post vinay.

i won't argue with you regarding the players' egos.. but i wanted to point out their style of play which could clash.

Phil and Fortune didn't concentrate too much onbringing the ball up field.. Ole kept out wide and waited for the ball to get to him when we're attacking. So all in all, Veron has been the only playmaker all these times.. will keane and becks come in to join the role is what i'm curious to find out.
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Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

great post vinay.

i won't argue with you regarding the players' egos.. but i wanted to point out their style of play which could clash.

Phil and Fortune didn't concentrate too much onbringing the ball up field.. Ole kept out wide and waited for the ball to get to him when we're attacking. So all in all, Veron has been the only playmaker all these times.. will keane and becks come in to join the role is what i'm curious to find out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Understood your point. I guess and hope they take turns when they are all playing together. And well, if they rely on short passes to move up, they surely can be rather ominous sounding, if they do it together.
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Originally posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber:
<strong>The Ultimate formation:
4:3:3
Barthez

Gazza Wes Mickey O'shea

Keano
Veron Scholes

Ole/Becks Giggs
Ruud</strong><hr></blockquote>


Don't agree, this 4-5-1 is:

--------------------- Barthez --------------------

------------- Rio --------------- Wes ------------

---- GNev ------------------------------ Silv ----

--------------------- Keane ----------------------

----------- Scholes ------------ Verón -----------

--- Beckham ---------------------------- Giggs ---

--------------------- RVN ------------------------

:)
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Originally posted by VanNistlerater:
<strong>My formattion:
--------- Barthez ----------
Gary -- Wes -- Silv -- O'Shea
---- Keane ---- Veron ------
- Ole - Scholes - Giggs -
----------- Ruud -----------

And if wes or mickey play badly, sub on Rio. If we are strolling it, take of keane, so not to rush him into it, for phil.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Spot on. I'd have both Rio and Becks on the bench, and then wait until one of the backs or Ole have a bad run of form before letting them regain their places.
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