Why we shouldn't be so pessimistic

jm99

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I think people are being a bit too pessimistic with regards to how long it'll take and how much work is needed. Yes there's a bad attitude through this team but really, we got rangnick from lokomotiv Moscow, we didn't poach him from Bayern Munich or any other top team we brought up primarily for the consultant role (which is fine, it's actually a decision I think the board finally got right, I'd have preferred Conte but given that it seems that wasn't happening), I'm glad they chose am actual interim and waited for their first choice rather than just appoint someone midseason and potentially keep them on of they do ok ie/ Ole. So we have someone who's not really a great manager in charge



Before that we had three years of Ole and despite some in here thinking he was great because the lads liked him, realistically there probably wasn't another team in the league or another set of fans that would have Ole as their manager, out of the 20 managers ranked by ability he was fairly close to 20th.



You have to go as far back as Mourinho to the last time we had a proper manager, and while yes it ended badly, he had us finish on 81 points in 2nd but was still miles off pep's team, then the board decided not to bother backing him and it all imploded, the season before he got the Europa League as well. And this was past his best Mourinho.



So really we're talking summer 2018 since these players played under a talented and motivated manager. Yes they should still be beating Everton but Chelsea were near the relegation zone last time Mourinho left when he'd basically downed tools, the effect a manager can have is huge, and it should be exciting that for the first time in four years we're going to be playing under a proper manager, not one looking to secure his exit package or someone with essentially no top flight European achievements, we're bringing in a guy who got Ajax to a cl semi final and a kick away from the champions league final.

Yes it might still end badly, ten hag will need to have complete control, and not be hampered like Mourinho was being told certain players weren't for sale because of their commercial value and the like, but for four years the players havent played under anything even resembling an elite manager, not since Jose 17/18 season and that was him past his best, four years is a long time in modern football and we've spent it with a manager who wouldn't get a job at any other premier League club and a guy who's never managed a club even half the size of United (though he's an actual interim with no hope of the full time job so who cares) but plenty of reason to think we're not doomed for 5-10 years. A proper manager will make an enormous amount of difference and really we've never seen this current side play under one
 
I doubt even prime Fergie, Wenger or Mourinho can do much with this bunch of untalented, expensive snowflakes.
 
PeteReDevil said:
We'd hire Robot SAF 2000 and we'd still suck, because of how the club is run.
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We say that, but the last time we had a competent manager in charge we finished 2nd with 81 points, guardiola's city finished with 81 points in the 19/20 season. Now I'm not saying we're close to them in anyway but we've had three years of solskjaer, who we allowed to spend half a billion, and rangnick, who's basically been brought in for his consultancy the next couple years and definitely not for his managerial ability.

Like I said when Mourinho left Chelsea they were 16th in the table despite having a hugely talented team, so that kind of gives you an idea of how much a difference a poor manager can make (whether that's because of burnout or personal conflicts like Mourinho, or just lack of ability like solskjaer).

We've not seen this team play under anything resembling robot 2000 SAF, and yes there will be work to be done and players needed to be brought in and shipped out, but a quality manager will make an incredible difference
 
Tap said:
I doubt even prime Fergie, Wenger or Mourinho can do much with this bunch of untalented, expensive snowflakes.
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What are you basing this on though? Because two managers with essentially no top flight experience between them haven't been able to do much, then no one can?

Since fergie left we've had Moyes (good manager but his limit is around Europa League level), van gaal (great manager but past his best, and got absolutely terrified by the Leicester result early on which made him shift to ultra cautious despite having a capable attacking team), Mourinho (great manager but a little past his best, but only really went to shit after summer 2018 when it was clear the board were satisfied with second place and weren't going to back him, we stood still while city and pool pushed ahead), solskjaer (probably no exaggeration to say he would have ranked bottom of the 20 managers in the league, no other side would have swapped their manager for ours when he was in charge) and rangnick, a man with zero top flight accomplishments.

This is the Gary Neville fallacy where he keeps saying don't hire big name managers cos a couple have failed ignoring these managers were past their best. During the time since fergie left we've had one manager who at the time of managing us would squeak into the top 10 in the world and that's Mourinho, and under him we came second with 81 points and won the Europa League, but he was declining and even with those achievements we need to aim higher, but to say that no manager could get a tune out of this team because the group of past it or never had it in the first place managers we've had the last decade haven't been able to is crazy
 
To think that united's administration believed that this rebuilt was perfect as it was filled with United DNA and players who know exactly what playing for united is all about

I believe that our new scouting system built by Jon Murtough analysed over 600 fullbacks only to identify AWB as the right man for the job
 
devilish said:
To think that united's administration believed that this rebuilt was perfect as it was filled with United DNA and players who know exactly what playing for united is all about

I believe that our new scouting system built by Jon Murtough analysed over 600 fullbacks only to identify AWB as the right man for the job
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Did they, yeah?
 
jm99 said:
What are you basing this on though? Because two managers with essentially no top flight experience between them haven't been able to do much, then no one can?

Since fergie left we've had Moyes (good manager but his limit is around Europa League level), van gaal (great manager but past his best, and got absolutely terrified by the Leicester result early on which made him shift to ultra cautious despite having a capable attacking team), Mourinho (great manager but a little past his best, but only really went to shit after summer 2018 when it was clear the board were satisfied with second place and weren't going to back him, we stood still while city and pool pushed ahead), solskjaer (probably no exaggeration to say he would have ranked bottom of the 20 managers in the league, no other side would have swapped their manager for ours when he was in charge) and rangnick, a man with zero top flight accomplishments.

This is the Gary Neville fallacy where he keeps saying don't hire big name managers cos a couple have failed ignoring these managers were past their best. During the time since fergie left we've had one manager who at the time of managing us would squeak into the top 10 in the world and that's Mourinho, and under him we came second with 81 points and won the Europa League, but he was declining and even with those achievements we need to aim higher, but to say that no manager could get a tune out of this team because the group of past it or never had it in the first place managers we've had the last decade haven't been able to is crazy
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I would base on the fact that our players basically give up too easily with little to no fight in them. Becoming a professional football is not easy, and yet they have the opportunity to play one of the biggest clubs in the world, and they serve up shit like this week in week out. Throw managers under the bus, make fun of coaches, whatever, but it seems like these players don’t even have any pride - if not for a club of our stature, even for themselves it seems. No top professional will do this, so therefore they are not top professionals. Even if one is woefully out of form, you would at least expect to see some fight and determination, but I don’t see any in at least half the team. Something rotten is present and we don’t know what it is. I’m not even sure Rangnick knows what it is, or at least he’s not allowed to reveal it because he seems defeated as well and he’s only been here for a few months.

Club is backward and utter shite at the top, and that flows down all the way to the bottom.

We witnessed City and Pool rebuild, with much publicity about what they did to become successful again, but we were too proud and complacent to do the same (in my opinion).
 
devilish said:
To think that united's administration believed that this rebuilt was perfect as it was filled with United DNA and players who know exactly what playing for united is all about

I believe that our new scouting system built by Jon Murtough analysed over 600 fullbacks only to identify AWB as the right man for the job
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I mean I don't rate wan bissaka much but clearly he must have shown something at crystal palace, he can't have been as bad as us. Same with Maguire at Leicester, iirc pep was in for him but we outbid.

I'm not saying these are great players but everyone that comes to us (with the exception of Bruno for about a season or so until he started a bit of a decline) plays worse.

Maybe it is all the players fault, but more likely we see players performing well for other sides in teams that play to their strengths and sign them for us and put them into our system (or lack thereof) and are shocked when they're underperforming
 
jeepers said:
I would base on the fact that our players basically give up too easily with little to no fight in them. Becoming a professional football is not easy, and yet they have the opportunity to play one of the biggest clubs in the world, and they serve up shit like this week in week out. Throw managers under the bus, make fun of coaches, whatever, but it seems like these players don’t even have any pride - if not for a club of our stature, even for themselves it seems. No top professional will do this, so therefore they are not top professionals. Even if one is woefully out of form, you would at least expect to see some fight and determination, but I don’t see any in at least half the team. Something rotten is present and we don’t know what it is. I’m not even sure Rangnick knows what it is, or at least he’s not allowed to reveal it because he seems defeated as well and he’s only been here for a few months.

Club is backward and utter shite at the top, and that flows down all the way to the bottom.

We witnessed City and Pool rebuild, with much publicity about what they did to become successful again, but we were too proud and complacent to do the same.
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But look at Chelsea, 16th when Mourinho left, brought in hiddink and finished top half, or last season were massively underperforming under lampard then win the champions League. Or real Madrid under Rafael benitez, sack him for Zidane midseason and go on to win the champions League. Or whoever it was Bayern sacked for flick who went on and won a treble.

We're just particularly unlucky that

A. We've had a string of bad managerial appointments
B. We persist with them far too long
 
jm99 said:
I mean I don't rate wan bissaka much but clearly he must have shown something at crystal palace, he can't have been as bad as us. Same with Maguire at Leicester, iirc pep was in for him but we outbid.

I'm not saying these are great players but everyone that comes to us (with the exception of Bruno for about a season or so until he started a bit of a decline) plays worse.

Maybe it is all the players fault, but more likely we see players performing well for other sides in teams that play to their strengths and sign them for us and put them into our system (or lack thereof) and are shocked when they're underperforming
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He is an old fashioned FB, who can't go forward with the ball. Which is silly considering that FBs today are expected to create loads of assists. Awb is the equivalent of someone buying a typewriter or a fax. The difference is that it costed us 50m
 
Withnail said:
Did they, yeah?
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Well they were all proud of how we restructured the recruitment department. The same that discovered hidden gems like Maguire, Bruno, Varane and Ronaldo
 
devilish said:
He is an old fashioned FB, who can't go forward with the ball. Which is silly considering that FBs today are expected to create loads of assists. Awb is the equivalent of someone buying a typewriter or a fax. The difference is that it costed us 50m
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Yeah I'm not suggesting he was a good purchase, he almost certainly looked better in a palace team that spends more time defending than at us where we should be largely on the front foot. It's hard to say whether it was a solskjaer purchase or someone else just thrust awb onto him but I'm optimistic ten hag will be given a good bit of control anyway.
 
It’s the players always has been. There check out merchants any sign that there is a fight to be had they do not want to know. We at the very top of the club have rewarded mediocrity for what reason? And now we are seeing the ramifications of that the glazers don’t want to re buy a player look at pogba reportedly offered 400k he doesn’t deserve 75 the way he is playing. Luke Shaw on mega money because he was getting into the final years of his contract he had not earned £180k per week but this club is stupid enough to pay it, because the board / scouts do not have the courage to say fine go and get another club (which most of them couldn’t do anyway). Instead we offer stupid wages to players in the last days of their careers.


This mentality is institutionalised and starts from
The very top of the club, what’s needed is a total overhaul and forget top four next year give me a 5ucking team that is willing to put a shift in, that I can be proud of, that won’t lie down and take a defeat. A defeat is fine if you battled the best you could.

I bet Rangnick is amazed that the club has got this low. Take a loss on a load of the players use the scouts and sign up and comers that want and are hungry for a contract. Don’t over do the press releases for a few years and gain the trust back. I genuinely have never seen it so bad at a big club
 
devilish said:
He is an old fashioned FB, who can't go forward with the ball. Which is silly considering that FBs today are expected to create loads of assists. Awb is the equivalent of someone buying a typewriter or a fax. The difference is that it costed us 50m
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If I remember correctly you actually were big proponent of AWB signing ignoring all his faults stating how defenders need to defend first all other stuff being not at all important .
 
gajender said:
If I remember correctly you actually were big proponent of AWB signing ignoring all his faults stating how defenders need to defend first all other stuff being not at all important .
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What I said was that a FB needs to be able to defend. I also thought that it's very difficult for me to judge his attacking game while playing at Palace. I am a united fan, I rarely watch Palace and I don't have access to the technology and the expertise a united scout should have
 
Withnail said:
Ok then. If we're just going to make stuff up I'm off to Mars tomorrow.
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Where am I making things up? One of Jon murtough's/ ole attributes was their ability to revamp our recruitment department. The same who were involved in this rebuild
 
jm99 said:
But look at Chelsea, 16th when Mourinho left, brought in hiddink and finished top half, or last season were massively underperforming under lampard then win the champions League. Or real Madrid under Rafael benitez, sack him for Zidane midseason and go on to win the champions League. Or whoever it was Bayern sacked for flick who went on and won a treble.

We're just particularly unlucky that

A. We've had a string of bad managerial appointments
B. We persist with them far too long
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Clearly none of us know what goes on behind the scenes, but I would most definitely not put our poor managerial appointments down to unluck. It’s a lack of clear vision and strategy from the top that led to a series of outrageously poor decisions (in hindsight).

I, personally, wasn’t keen on Moyes and Mourinho. LvG bored the life out of me and it was the first time I actually fell asleep watching United (I’m not in UK).

Like an earlier poster said (or maybe it was mentioned in another thread), we are now fully reaping what we sowed.

I only hope that we get things right and sorted properly this time around.
 
jeepers said:
Clearly none of us know what goes on behind the scenes, but I would most definitely not put our poor managerial appointments down to unluck. It’s a lack of clear vision and strategy from the top that led to a series of outrageously poor decisions (in hindsight).

I, personally, wasn’t keen on Moyes and Mourinho. LvG bored the life out of me and it was the first time I actually fell asleep watching United (I’m not in UK).

Like an earlier poster said (or maybe it was mentioned in another thread), we are now fully reaping what we sowed.

I only hope that we get things right and sorted properly this time around.
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Yeah of course there's an issue with the structure in place though hopefully, with Woodward going, and with them seeming to be willing to wait to appoint their preferred manager rather than just anyone midseason suggests that there may be some improvement in this respect.

But really my point was saying there's no way any managed will get this team to perform as if our last four five managers were peak Ferguson, peak Wenger, peak Mourinho, pep and klopp. If that was the case I'd say yeah clearly there's something wrong with the players or there's a curse on the club. But we've appointed largely mediocre managers and achieved largely mediocre results, yes we might have done better if the two best managers in the world weren't at city and pool, but at no point have we had the 3rd best manager in the world, in fact you'd struggle to argue we've had a top 10 manager since Jose resigned, it's not as if we've tried everything and we're still getting no where, we haven't tried appointing a top manager yet, the one thing most successful clubs have
 
jm99 said:
I think people are being a bit too pessimistic with regards to how long it'll take and how much work is needed. Yes there's a bad attitude through this team but really, we got rangnick from lokomotiv Moscow, we didn't poach him from Bayern Munich or any other top team we brought up primarily for the consultant role (which is fine, it's actually a decision I think the board finally got right, I'd have preferred Conte but given that it seems that wasn't happening), I'm glad they chose am actual interim and waited for their first choice rather than just appoint someone midseason and potentially keep them on of they do ok ie/ Ole. So we have someone who's not really a great manager in charge



Before that we had three years of Ole and despite some in here thinking he was great because the lads liked him, realistically there probably wasn't another team in the league or another set of fans that would have Ole as their manager, out of the 20 managers ranked by ability he was fairly close to 20th.



You have to go as far back as Mourinho to the last time we had a proper manager, and while yes it ended badly, he had us finish on 81 points in 2nd but was still miles off pep's team, then the board decided not to bother backing him and it all imploded, the season before he got the Europa League as well. And this was past his best Mourinho.



So really we're talking summer 2018 since these players played under a talented and motivated manager. Yes they should still be beating Everton but Chelsea were near the relegation zone last time Mourinho left when he'd basically downed tools, the effect a manager can have is huge, and it should be exciting that for the first time in four years we're going to be playing under a proper manager, not one looking to secure his exit package or someone with essentially no top flight European achievements, we're bringing in a guy who got Ajax to a cl semi final and a kick away from the champions league final.

Yes it might still end badly, ten hag will need to have complete control, and not be hampered like Mourinho was being told certain players weren't for sale because of their commercial value and the like, but for four years the players havent played under anything even resembling an elite manager, not since Jose 17/18 season and that was him past his best, four years is a long time in modern football and we've spent it with a manager who wouldn't get a job at any other premier League club and a guy who's never managed a club even half the size of United (though he's an actual interim with no hope of the full time job so who cares) but plenty of reason to think we're not doomed for 5-10 years. A proper manager will make an enormous amount of difference and really we've never seen this current side play under one
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I Hope you are right. A good manager can change the fortunes of a top club Yes, but he must be given complete control of transfers ( Incomings and outgoings) . I really don't know if this will happen at this club now. We have too many chiefs when it comes to who comes in and who stays. We need to put more focus into the football side of things and leave the commercial side of things to Arnold or whoever. It may take a couple of years before we get back to the top of the pile and win even more fans but if a club is run right, it can be done and we might even be surprised if it takes an even shorter time.
 
jm99 said:
Yeah of course there's an issue with the structure in place though hopefully, with Woodward going, and with them seeming to be willing to wait to appoint their preferred manager rather than just anyone midseason suggests that there may be some improvement in this respect.

But really my point was saying there's no way any managed will get this team to perform as if our last four five managers were peak Ferguson, peak Wenger, peak Mourinho, pep and klopp. If that was the case I'd say yeah clearly there's something wrong with the players or there's a curse on the club. But we've appointed largely mediocre managers and achieved largely mediocre results, yes we might have done better if the two best managers in the world weren't at city and pool, but at no point have we had the 3rd best manager in the world, in fact you'd struggle to argue we've had a top 10 manager since Jose resigned, it's not as if we've tried everything and we're still getting no where, we haven't tried appointing a top manager yet, the one thing most successful clubs have
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Agree. We've made four bad appointments since Fergie left, for sure.
 
I don't think you're pessimistic enough. The club has been mismanaged for years, there's every reason to think it will continue to be. Even if we get Ten Hag I worry he's more likely to come down to our level than the other way round.
 
I think that you are right. Even when people question the toughness of our players they need to keep in mind that for a long time under both Mourinho and Ole our players were the kings of comebacks, the only reason we haven't been a complete embarassment is because they grinded out wins. It is not impossible that overtime the players have been as dispirited as the fan base has been when it comes to the complete lack of obvious coaching?
 
Jericho said:
I don't think you're pessimistic enough. The club has been mismanaged for years, there's every reason to think it will continue to be. Even if we get Ten Hag I worry he's more likely to come down to our level than the other way round.
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I agree with this.

There is nothing to indicate that ETH will get full control of anything and if he has to deal with the management of the club like every other manager has had to, it will not work.

Yeah, he’ll improve us and might get us consistently in to the top 4 but that is where the club then stop caring and will just sit back. We will never win the league with the Glazers owning the club and there being no complete overhaul of how the club is run.

And I appreciate that the overhaul might be in process now and we might have turned a corner but forgive me for not being confident that we have.

I feel sorry for TH
 
Jericho said:
I don't think you're pessimistic enough. The club has been mismanaged for years, there's every reason to think it will continue to be. Even if we get Ten Hag I worry he's more likely to come down to our level than the other way round.
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I'm not saying we'll definitely be flying again, what I'm saying is that none of the four managers we've appointed have shown that they're on the level needed to succeed at the top of the premier League since they've left us. Maybe ten hag won't be the answer, but plenty of people are saying no one could turn this club around, no manager could get a tune out of these players, but the only four managers who've tried aren't of the standard that we should have managing United. We've spent almost half a billion just under solskjaer and for all that he's a united legend for his playing days, it's madness spending that much on players with a championship/league one standard manager.

So, maybe ten hag won't improve us enough, but I'm not going write our club off just because the four managers we've tried haven't succeeded given that none have really been of man United calibre
 
gajender said:
If I remember correctly you actually were big proponent of AWB signing ignoring all his faults stating how defenders need to defend first all other stuff being not at all important .
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Personally I always hoped we would go with someone who could attack and defend like a Meunier but never happened
 
If people want to be optimistic, then come on down, or tune in, and watch our women's team, the more that do, will find out thst there is plenty to be optimistic about!

Heart, desire, workrate, it is all there to see in bundles.

Everything that people seemingly moan about with regardsti the men's side, the women's team have.

So, I would highly recommend people watching our women's side!
 
jm99 said:
So, maybe ten hag won't improve us enough, but I'm not going write our club off just because the four managers we've tried haven't succeeded given that none have really been of man United calibre
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I agree. Most of the managers haven’t been good enough, although I personally think we should have kept Jose. Proven record and won us a trophy. Going forward, I’m hoping ETH is good. He certainly seems to know what he is doing at Ajax. Would love to see an American managing the club I support one day. Would be a proud moment
 
jm99 said:
I think people are being a bit too pessimistic with regards to how long it'll take and how much work is needed. Yes there's a bad attitude through this team but really, we got rangnick from lokomotiv Moscow, we didn't poach him from Bayern Munich or any other top team we brought up primarily for the consultant role (which is fine, it's actually a decision I think the board finally got right, I'd have preferred Conte but given that it seems that wasn't happening), I'm glad they chose am actual interim and waited for their first choice rather than just appoint someone midseason and potentially keep them on of they do ok ie/ Ole. So we have someone who's not really a great manager in charge



Before that we had three years of Ole and despite some in here thinking he was great because the lads liked him, realistically there probably wasn't another team in the league or another set of fans that would have Ole as their manager, out of the 20 managers ranked by ability he was fairly close to 20th.



You have to go as far back as Mourinho to the last time we had a proper manager, and while yes it ended badly, he had us finish on 81 points in 2nd but was still miles off pep's team, then the board decided not to bother backing him and it all imploded, the season before he got the Europa League as well. And this was past his best Mourinho.



So really we're talking summer 2018 since these players played under a talented and motivated manager. Yes they should still be beating Everton but Chelsea were near the relegation zone last time Mourinho left when he'd basically downed tools, the effect a manager can have is huge, and it should be exciting that for the first time in four years we're going to be playing under a proper manager, not one looking to secure his exit package or someone with essentially no top flight European achievements, we're bringing in a guy who got Ajax to a cl semi final and a kick away from the champions league final.

Yes it might still end badly, ten hag will need to have complete control, and not be hampered like Mourinho was being told certain players weren't for sale because of their commercial value and the like, but for four years the players havent played under anything even resembling an elite manager, not since Jose 17/18 season and that was him past his best, four years is a long time in modern football and we've spent it with a manager who wouldn't get a job at any other premier League club and a guy who's never managed a club even half the size of United (though he's an actual interim with no hope of the full time job so who cares) but plenty of reason to think we're not doomed for 5-10 years. A proper manager will make an enormous amount of difference and really we've never seen this current side play under one
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Good post and posts in here.

Don’t let the regular doom merchants drag you down. You made a lot of very valid points.

The club does look to be moving in the right direction and you can argue that whilst it hasn’t worked out with RR it’s positive that we haven’t rushed to bring in a permanent manager mid season as we’ve acknowledged the need to do the process properly and restructure in the background prior.

We do look to be taking baby steps forward in this department and that’s got to be positive for me. Taking the time to change the structure, have RR as an advisor with some hands on experience of working with the squad to pass on to the new manager, and doing a proper managerial process (due diligence) is a much more measured approach and likely to pay off in the longer term.

Top four would have been bonus but the damage was done a while ago and losing Greenwood in January, along with the issues with Cavani/Rashford/Martial, as left us utterly reliant on Ronaldo. It was clear at this point we’d struggle for goals. If these events hadn’t happened we’d likely have converted many of these draws to wins and be sat in the top 4 in my opinion. Fine margins.

We just need the season to end and for the new regime to come in.
 
The current disaster on the pitch is a consequence of the failings of the structure at the club. However, I’m finally seeing the right developments at the football technical side of things and we have to bite through this sour apple. I suspect we will get much better over the next couple of seasons as we start to see the benefits of a change in direction and new positions & appointments.
 
Agree, we shouldn't be so pessimistic. Arsenal have been doing this late season sucking and folding act for twenty years but still win an FA Cup every now and then. Ours is surely overdue?
 
BradtheAmerican said:
I agree. Most of the managers haven’t been good enough, although I personally think we should have kept Jose. Proven record and won us a trophy. Going forward, I’m hoping ETH is good. He certainly seems to know what he is doing at Ajax. Would love to see an American managing the club I support one day. Would be a proud moment
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I wouldn't have been opposed to keeping Jose but clearly it was untenable once it was made clear that he wouldn't get totally backed and he wouldnt be allowed to sell certain players. But even at that Jose now is maybe a top 20 coach in the world, he seems to be doing a decent job with Roma but nothing exceptional. For us to compete in the premier League which has 3 of the top 5 sides in Europe in it every season we really need a manager who's close to the level of pep, klopp and tuchel. No point throwing another half a billion at a team and just taking anyone as manager. Hopefully ten hag will turn out to be that person, but I definitely don't think it's some kind of insurmountable task just because the others we've had since SAF have failed
 
jm99 said:
I wouldn't have been opposed to keeping Jose but clearly it was untenable once it was made clear that he wouldn't get totally backed and he wouldnt be allowed to sell certain players. But even at that Jose now is maybe a top 20 coach in the world, he seems to be doing a decent job with Roma but nothing exceptional. For us to compete in the premier League which has 3 of the top 5 sides in Europe in it every season we really need a manager who's close to the level of pep, klopp and tuchel. No point throwing another half a billion at a team and just taking anyone as manager. Hopefully ten hag will turn out to be that person, but I definitely don't think it's some kind of insurmountable task just because the others we've had since SAF have failed
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It's definitely not an insurmountable task. Cycles happen, and when (not if) we get things right, we will be ruthless.
 
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