Why Scholes may go

Red99

Guest
Much of the talk about replacements in the summer has, understandably, focused on the defence and the addition of a forward and possible midfield cover. Aside from the possible departure of Veron there is a general consensus that no replacements are needed in the core midfield quartet. Underpinning this is a view which I share i.e. that a midfield of Giggs, Keane, Scholes and Beckham is player for player the best in the world. I have a feeling however that Fergie may be considering breaking up this quartet with Scholes the most likely candidates, which is why the rumours of deals involving thuram may have a glimmer of truth to them. And, i think, there is an argument which could be constructed for such a move:

Some time in the late 80's Fergie made the comment that most teams have 3 years of success before they need to be broken up. Liverpool's achievement in the 80's was to buck this trend by gradual change in the team so that a new team evolved every few years whilst maintaining success. Until Utd in the 90's no other team had ever managed this. Thus the team of 94 evolved into the treble winners with only 4 players constant. Whilst we have obviously made significant changes since 99 the heart of the team ( the midfield quartet) has remained unchanged. It was clearly fergie's view that this quartet had gone stale and needed freshening up, hence the Veron buy. And this judgement was surely right. The defining moment for me was the quarter against Bayern at OT when after an hour it was clear that we had no idea how to break down the well organised defensive formation. The problem was the lack of creative variety in midfield.

This year IMO, at our best, we have shown far more imagination and creative flair then at any time since 99, particularly in Europe. The problem has been that we have not displayed it consistently partly due to the lack of a settled midfield formation. And I think this is because Fergie in buying Veron couldn't bite the bullet and play him as part of the midfield 4. He wanted to find a way of keeping the same 4 and adding Veron. This is understandable because ,as stated player 4 player they are superb. What we know is that the midfield 5 does not work. Which means that a straight descision may need to be made Veron or scholes. Given this choice my heart would always say Scholes: he is a red, has rarely let the team down , is unlikely ever to leave voluntarily and therefore offer stability, is a superb player. However, is there not a chance that fergie's view will be that he knows that a straight return to the previous midfield 4 will leave us where we were last year.

This is why I would not be enormously surprised to see Scholes leave despite all the enormous reasons for maintaining him at the heart of the side.
 
Originally posted by Penny:
<strong>nuts !

I tell you ... all the Fergie Fledgings won't go ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm sorry but your attitude is exactly the reason why we've gone downhill and why we may fail to move on. The fledglings have settled down and they are not playing to their potential, maybe once or twice a year.

If you doubt this, how many times have our world class squad beaten a big team? We currently have a team full of underachievers and thats dispicable.

I wouldn't target Scholes though, he has been ok this year and regularly plays well. He will stay unless we get a really good offer.

I'm worried about Giggs. He simply doesnt perform regularly. A player of his ability should be doing much more. Dont make the mistake of thinking he is irreplacable. Whens the last time he did something magic? A special pass? A special run?

The last thing he did that was really special was probably Arsenal semi-final NINETY-NINE!! Yes he had a SOLID period this year behind RVN, but he was no Cantona. Someone like Totti/Bergkamp would do that job much better. Out wide Giggs has been poor this year.

Whilst players like Ginola, Pires and Robert are much more influential on their team and regularly do something incredible.
 
Paul Scholes won't go. I can virtually guarantee that. He is a England international who would want to stay with a English side and none other than the best side who is Manchester United. He has been always linked with Italian clubs, most noticeably Juventus but I am sure even money won't even tempt him away from old trafford, he is truly one of fergie's fledglings.
 
"Out wide Giggs has been poor this year"

:rolleyes:
BVut he was pretty sensational when played in the centre! :D
 
when I said Fergie's fledgling "won't go" ... I am not implying that I WOULD LIKE ALL OF THEM TO STAY ... What I mean is - I don't think Fergie will ever sell them ... I was originally thinking this will be the final years the lad will be together especially a new manager on the way ... but once Fergie signed, I have no doubt that it won't happen

You still don't know Fergie's mentality haven't you ? ... he will always give himself enough time to prove to the world that his decision is rite !! ... the more criticsm he get, the more determined he's to show the world !! ... he sell his main players off only when they stepped on his tail for :
(1) Unpleasant public words & critism ( Stam )
(2) Colorful lifestyle ( Yorkie, Sharpie ) ...etc
(3) Players "too big" in the dressing room ( Ince )
(4) knock on his door and ask for "guarantee" 1st team place ( Cole probably )

You see Scholes matching any of the above ?? :rolleyes:

And on Giggsy .. yes I think he has a super poor year ... We need more from him but again, I think he should just go far left that's it !! .. why we need him in the middle always ??... that's what I am saying here a lot of times now ... we need a new No.9 who play the dribbling/twist&turn type of game and could take on defender ... If we have a new No.9 of this mould - Giggsy could then be put back to "proper" position and shine there ...
 
Originally posted by $ukhjit:
<strong>Paul Scholes won't go. I can virtually guarantee that.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ummm how can you guarantee that mate? If your answer is satisfactory, your official answer mind, then could you also perhaps provde a guarantee for any result during the forthcoming world cup.

Thanks (for nothing).
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Ummm how can you guarantee that mate? If your answer is satisfactory, your official answer mind, then could you also perhaps provde a guarantee for any result during the forthcoming world cup.

Thanks (for nothing).</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well I can almost guarantee it myself.....

Paul Scholes get's homesick every time we play an away game...

He could never leave Manchester.....

I think it was Inter Milan who made a massive bid for him a few years ago and even then I knew he was a Manchester lad who wouldn't want to leave home...
 
Thanks Martin, but two things:

1 - it was a slightly tongue in cheek piss take of matey from Rio

2 - If Ferguson did decide that Scholes was expendable then he would go no question.
 
Your comments are fair.

I know, I for one am often guilty of pressuming players like Giggs or Scholes will never leave, when, we all know what happened with Hughes, Ince and Cantona, all different situations, but shocking nevertheless.

In this case however, I must stick with this instinct. I honestly cannot see Fergie shaking up the midfield.

For me, Fergie has stated his intentions by letting Ronny go. He wants Blanc to stick about for another season, and he's gonna change the defence, which, if we're honest, is the only problem area in our team.
 
Defence will not be the only area Blyth ... but of course, that will be the FIRST one to experience some true shake up ...

IMO - Forward line will be the 2nd one ... With the no.9 jersey up for grabs ... Yorkie either rottening or just find a non-league team himself to join <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> .... I am quite sure that Fergie will see it clearly he don't have the necessary depth up front... Charlton game last nite definitely gave him much more determination in getting the front line properly plan out next season ... We can't go on firing blanks everytime RVN got injured !? :rolleyes:

Fergie is a true-believer in attacking football ... he's the one who started the "every team to have 4 top strikers" mould and you see most team following it rite now ... So it's very obvious for me to have ... well I personaly believe to be 1 new striker purchased and Webber/Davies being given some chances to prove themselves come next season ...

And on Forlan - I still think that he need to cut his hair before he can start scoring ... See what has happened to RVN after his haircut ... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
Originally posted by Penny:
<strong>
... See what has happened to RVN after his haircut ... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

he started scoring less than he did before?


:cool:
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>

I'm sorry but your attitude is exactly the reason why we've gone downhill and why we may fail to move on. The fledglings have settled down and they are not playing to their potential, maybe once or twice a year.

If you doubt this, how many times have our world class squad beaten a big team? We currently have a team full of underachievers and thats dispicable.

I wouldn't target Scholes though, he has been ok this year and regularly plays well. He will stay unless we get a really good offer.

I'm worried about Giggs. He simply doesnt perform regularly. A player of his ability should be doing much more. Dont make the mistake of thinking he is irreplacable. Whens the last time he did something magic? A special pass? A special run?

The last thing he did that was really special was probably Arsenal semi-final NINETY-NINE!! Yes he had a SOLID period this year behind RVN, but he was no Cantona. Someone like Totti/Bergkamp would do that job much better. Out wide Giggs has been poor this year.

Whilst players like Ginola, Pires and Robert are much more influential on their team and regularly do something incredible.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I'll second Penny's view. Nuts!

Firstly. Ginola? Give me a break!


Giggs may not of had a consistent season, but he did far more than Veron for us this year. As much as I think Giggs tends to float, atleast he makes things happen and brings 2 or 3 opposing defenders his way everytime he has the ball.

What we need is a rightsided player, preferably a RB or RW to do the same as Giggs. A player like Kanchelskis. This would balance our attack. Beckham is good, but is more a passer. With our current players I would have employed a 4-5-2-1 formation, like Barcelona have done in the past. The squad looking like this:
Bartez;
Brown (RB), G Neville (CB 90% of the time), Johnsen (CB 10%), Blanc (CB), Silvestre (LB);
Beckham (RM), Keane (CM), Scholes (LM);
OGS (RAM), Giggs (LAM);
RVN (ST)

Ideally, it would be nice to bring in another defender and striker. My choices would be Tristen and Nesta.
 
I'm glad someone pointed out about Ginola! I mean really! <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> And Giggs has had a poor season by his standard, but there have been a number of games this season when he has been brilliant, some games up front he looked amazing. I remember one goal where he drifted from the right past about 3-4 defenders and scored (can't remember which game??).

Re: Scholes, I am concerned that he might be sold - I think this is crazy, and I suspect the World Cup will demonstrate just how good he is compared to the world's best. Him vs. veron will be interesting!
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>I'm glad someone pointed out about Ginola! I mean really! <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> And Giggs has had a poor season by his standard, but there have been a number of games this season when he has been brilliant, some games up front he looked amazing. I remember one goal where he drifted from the right past about 3-4 defenders and scored (can't remember which game??).

Re: Scholes, I am concerned that he might be sold - I think this is crazy, and I suspect the World Cup will demonstrate just how good he is compared to the world's best. Him vs. veron will be interesting!</strong><hr></blockquote>


You mean drifting phycially from the RIGHT and score? - that has to be Depotivo at home ... he was playing on the right then ..

Scholes thing ... to tell you what I feel - to sell any of the fledglings will be like peeling a layer of skin from the gaffer himself ... other than unsettling the rest of the group ... For me the 5, 6 of them grow up together ... there's just ... well , you know what I mean ..

There's a couple of other ways to make things rite ... if you do think the kids have started to off their mark ... Example - to get another player in who's playing the same position and give them more competition for squad place ... . With this grp of players - I am VERY sure non of them are quitters ... they will just stand up and challenge for it !!
 
Originally posted by Penny:
<strong>


You mean drifting phycially from the RIGHT and score? - that has to be Depotivo at home ... he was playing on the right then ..

Scholes thing ... to tell you what I feel - to sell any of the fledglings will be like peeling a layer of skin from the gaffer himself ... other than unsettling the rest of the group ... For me the 5, 6 of them grow up together ... there's just ... well , you know what I mean ..

There's a couple of other ways to make things rite ... if you do think the kids have started to off their mark ... Example - to get another player in who's playing the same position and give them more competition for squad place ... . With this grp of players - I am VERY sure non of them are quitters ... they will just stand up and challenge for it !!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I more or less agree with you, but although SAF has bonded very closely with all the fledglings, he is still a ruthless manager. Lee Sharpe was as much a homegrown as the others. I wouldn't be shocked if Phil Neville was sold for example. The link between gary and becks, and neville and neville makes it difficult though. But at the end of the day, they are professionals and, as Keano said, 'lumps of meat'. They know the score. I am still in shock at the sale of Stam!
 
Stam ... yes to tell you the truth I was absolutely gutted and full with question marks for his sale ... he was here in Far East and I have actually see him in real person and the next thing I know - he's off !! ...
that's football though ... and well, as I post in another thread - you stepped on Fergie's tail and you better go home and start packing up ... We will move on ... we will .. .
 
Ginola <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />
 
Originally posted by Penny:
<strong>Defence will not be the only area Blyth ... but of course, that will be the FIRST one to experience some true shake up ...
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure you're right. Defense is the priority, I can't see the board going mad this summer and buying another midfielder. Personally, I'll be happy if we just buy a decent Centre Back.
 
IMO, selling Scholes would break the Fledging chain and the chemistry, one of two reasons why we have the "best midfield" in Europe (the other reason is <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> ). What do United gain for offloading players at their prime age? Becks aside whatever Giggs, Butt, Scholes or Nevilles are worth we would have to spend twice as much in the inflating market. Adventurous and exciting, but not exactly smart or sound business.