Without stating the obvious but compared to the other top 3 or 4 teams, might be me but our successes in the transfer market always seems to be with Prem based players....Rio, Rooney, Berba, Mata, Carrick, Felliani (lets forget that one for now) maybe now Shaw...all record money signings
Why do we find it easier to sign Prem based players?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Because it's easier for players to remain in the same league and country, it's the same everywhere really.
I'm assuming its because their already based in England so their settled, which will make the transition much easier, as opposed to someone from France, Holland, Spain etc. who are coming into an entire new culture and lifestyle.
This and climate. Although I still think it is partly down to having a lazy transfer policy and not pursuing up and coming foreign talents as aggressively as we should before they make a name for themselves at good clubs.
Less risk but more costly because of their provenance but the investment made by the business is more solid. Also there is a long-term approach to United's transfer business that City and Chelsea care less about. Others will take a punt on a player who may or may not work out and/or may or may not stick around e.g. Ballotelli.
Also we've dicked on the league for the past 20 years. We've always been the place to go and players playing in the Prem will know that first hand.
Well you could counter the OP's list of players with Anderson, Nani, Evra, Vidic, Hernendez, De Gea and plenty of others.
We're the biggest club in England, so naturally we'll be the top destination. City have just won the league, but look at their stature and they're still small a feck compared to us. Old Trafford shits on the Etihad one hundred times over.
Many are local talent (British + Irish) and since British talent isn't very good at the moment, many top clubs in Britain (who have foreign managers) aren't exactly interested in them. In that way we almost have a monopoly. We do face some competition with the likes of Smalling and Jones. However it usually come from Arsenal or Liverpool (who like us, wouldn't mind developing players themselves) who are usually less attractive then us and pay less salary.
Think that is more down to Fergie's mentality and in some sense his lack of trust to make big money signings outside of the Premier League. Having said that our best big money signing in recent years was brought in from La Liga.
On a side note, I remember saying it would cost us around £30m to sign Luke Shaw and then getting laughed at. So feel slightly vindicated there. I did also say he would probably end up at Chelsea - so got that one wrong it seems.
You certainly could. Perhaps my issue is our failure to pick up some top notch CM talents over the last 3-4 seasons.
To be fair we've failed to pick them up from either the Premier League or abroad!
I can't think of many from the prem I would have liked us to have got but as for abroad I could probably name a whole squad full of CM's we should have gone for over the last 3-4 seasons.
For the same reason Bayern Munich mostly buy players based in Germany, Barcelona and Real Madrid mostly buy players based in Spain and Juventus mostly buy players based in Italy. If you buy a quality player that's already settled in that particular league, you run less of a risk from problems like not being able to settle, not liking the food and finding it very difficult to adapt to the way we play.
Agree with this.
Many PL players grew up in or around the English football structure at the time we were bossing it almost un-challenged (late-1990s to early 2000s, basically before Chelski struck oil). We were their dream club.
But my point is our top 6 or 7 highest have been Prem based players. Forgot to add RVP to that list too.....
Last two seasons we've signed Arsenals and Chelsea's best players in Mata and RVP. Cant see that happening at Barca or Madrid....
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I think we've also had to overpay for Premier League players, each one at the time I thought was too much but you have to pay extra for the English tax and because it's United buying
Don't know why didn't try for Cabaye before PSG came snooping. Would have been perfect really
Add to that they are less likely to leave if a club from abroad come knocking, makes for a safer bet to buy youngsters and develop them
Same league, same country.
A lot easier to sell the "United way" to an English based player as opposed to those on the continent. European based players have always had eyes for Madrid and Barcelona
A lot easier to sell the "United way" to an English based player as opposed to those on the continent. European based players have always had eyes for Madrid and Barcelona
This. We're the biggest club in England so it is not hard to convince a player based in England to become a United player. It is tough to sign the top European or South American players because Madrid and Barca have a bigger pull.
Bayern usually buy within Germany, Juve within Italy, etc...
Because we only seem to make serious offers for PL players...Sort of an logic outcome that you'll then end up with PL players.
Prem experience I think it comes down to, there's a lot less risk with someone who has been there and done it in the league. It's a sound strategy and the likes of Coleman, Lallana, Shaw would be a very good continuation of it.
It obviously isn't fool proof, we bought Dublin, Bosnich, Saha, Miller, Bellion all from Prem teams and they were bag of shite.
It obviously isn't fool proof, we bought Dublin, Bosnich, Saha, Miller, Bellion all from Prem teams and they were bag of shite.
Liam Miller? (Celtic, albeit a Premier League) Dion Dublin?.. (?Oxford United?)
Saha, also was pretty good sometimes. It's just a shame he was constantly injured and shit.
When Saha wasn't injured he was great
We're a huge club in England and we've been consistently successful over the last 20 years or so, which obviously makes Old Trafford a very desirable place to play.
On the other hand, young foreign players in Italy and Spain particularly will likely be more familiar with clubs like Juventus, AC Milan, Real Madrid and Barcelona. They'll consider these clubs more prestigious than ours, mainly because they've grown up with more exposure to them in the media and at school etc.
That's essentially why City looked nailed-on to sign Isco last summer, even with Pellegrini overseeing the deal, but as soon as a huge Spanish club stepped in then he was off there. Hopefully, the same logic will apply to Luke Shaw deciding to come and play for United rather than being tempted by Madrid's supposed interest in him.
On the other hand, young foreign players in Italy and Spain particularly will likely be more familiar with clubs like Juventus, AC Milan, Real Madrid and Barcelona. They'll consider these clubs more prestigious than ours, mainly because they've grown up with more exposure to them in the media and at school etc.
That's essentially why City looked nailed-on to sign Isco last summer, even with Pellegrini overseeing the deal, but as soon as a huge Spanish club stepped in then he was off there. Hopefully, the same logic will apply to Luke Shaw deciding to come and play for United rather than being tempted by Madrid's supposed interest in him.
It is down to two reasons in my eyes, the first is us undervaluing players as a whole but overrating the Premier League/British players. So when we make a bid for a British/Prem player it is usually a no-nonsense bid as we have already added the customary "British percentage add-on".
The second is that SAF rarely made high bids his last decade here with the exception of Berbatov and van Persie. So it was within our limit to buy "top Premier League players" without making huge bids like we would have to on "Europes best". We have always attracted the left overs or young talents like Anderson, Nani, Cristiano and so forth.
With United and the EPL on decline I think we missed a trick in 2006-09, when we were the most attractive club in the world for any top signing. We should have realized it wouldn't last forever by trying to take advantage of this in the transfer-market.
Even if we "could handle" signing non-top players, we should have tried to attract some young top talent as their desire to join us would have helped us greatly. At this point in time there is no chance for us to sign a player that all top clubs wants - we aren't the club most willing to spend nor the most attractive/best one.
It would have helped us here and now having another two absolute top-players who were competed as the best in their positions.
The second is that SAF rarely made high bids his last decade here with the exception of Berbatov and van Persie. So it was within our limit to buy "top Premier League players" without making huge bids like we would have to on "Europes best". We have always attracted the left overs or young talents like Anderson, Nani, Cristiano and so forth.
With United and the EPL on decline I think we missed a trick in 2006-09, when we were the most attractive club in the world for any top signing. We should have realized it wouldn't last forever by trying to take advantage of this in the transfer-market.
Even if we "could handle" signing non-top players, we should have tried to attract some young top talent as their desire to join us would have helped us greatly. At this point in time there is no chance for us to sign a player that all top clubs wants - we aren't the club most willing to spend nor the most attractive/best one.
It would have helped us here and now having another two absolute top-players who were competed as the best in their positions.
We consolidated after league win in 2006/7 by signing Tevez, Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani. That's probably the best transfer window the club had in last decade. Tevez was one of the top players then and both Ando and Nani were supposed to kick on and reach the top tier. Hargo was always a mistake.
We also already had one of the standout talents in Europe in our team then.
Problem was the transfer business when we sold Ronaldo. We got 80m and then inexplicably refused to use it due to 'no value in the market'.
06-07 we only signed Carrick, 07-08 is when we signed those players and in 08-09 we signed Berbatov, Tosic, Llajic and De Laet. 09-10, when we had build our reputation up for some time and had just sold Ronaldo - we went on to buy Valencia, Owen, Diouf.
So as the top two club in the world, knowing Ronaldo was on his way out/was sold, we signed:
Da Laet
Carrick
Tosic
Llajic
Berbatov
Valencia
Owen
Diouf
Nani
Anderson
Hargreaves
Possebon
Tevez
Rafael/Fabio
Kuszczak
Bayern in the same situation has taken advantage of it in a manner that makes us look a bit naive. They have signed Gotze, Thiago, Martinez, Lewandowski and Neuer the last three or so years since regaining top club status.
Of course that is without selling the starting star player worth 80 millions.
Bayern are planning for the future in an exceptional way, Thiago and Gotze aren't "what if's" like Anderson, Rafael, Fabio and Nani - but rather the absolute top talents around who would walk in to most teams first eleven. Lewandowski, Martinez and Neuer were of course proven players signed to as key-players, as well as being young enough to handle the future.
Comparison will Bayern does not hold. If Modric had a buy out clause, I am sure we would have tried to activate it as well. Same with Lewandowski, he pretty much ran his contract to transfer there for free.
Thiago came to Bayern due Pep, if he was at United, he would have come here.
The type of business we should have been looking to do is what Bayern did with Martinez. We refused to come to terms with the inflated market, market which had partly been inflated by the very record fee we got for Ronaldo.
If we had kept Ronaldo, we would not have felt the need to make mega transfers. As I said, after selling him it was a different issue. Since we lost Teveth as well and Berba never truly kicked on.
I don't agree, those are the type of deals you make if you are the best club in the World. Players run out their contract to get the chance to play with you, players with releases clauses are much more likely to join your side and you don't have to offer crazy wages to attract players.
Bayern offers peanuts in wages compared to the other big clubs, still Lewa and Gotze are there instead of earning the double at United/PSG/Chelsea/RM etc.
Of course we should have replaced Ronaldo much better no doubt, but by that time we should have already made good enough signings during those 3-4 years to have a great overall squad rather than one in shambles.
In the '11 final our midfield consisted of Valencia, Carrick, Giggs, Park and we also had Hernandez and Fabio on the pitch. Compare that to Scholes-Hargreaves-Carrick, Ronaldo-Tevez-Rooney with a defense in its peak some years earlier.
It is a huge downgrade and we should have made at least a star signing every year from 06-11 to handle the transition better.
If they're already playing in the PL and wish to remain then we're by far the biggest team to want to move to.
We did actually do that though. Tevez and Berba were both star signing. Then we invested in top young talents in Nani and Anderson, both were very very highly rated then. Problem was none of these 4 truly realized the expectations for different reasons. There is no guarantee that even Lewa would work out for Bayern. Heck if even Gotze fails, what happens then? Besides buying top players before we sold Ronaldo was not feasible. You already saw what happened when we signed Berba a season too early, Tevez threw a hiissy fit and left. Once Ron left though, there was no excuse not to get someone like Martinez or Modric.
Very few if any top players e going to pull a lewa. Even Ronaldo would not have run his contract down on little money to join his beloved Real. That is very much an anomaly unless you expect top players across Europe to start doing the same.
You are slightly missing the point. In 5 years time the only player we spent big money on was Berbatov who didn't improve our first team at all in fact he just made it worse - and he wasn't a player to solve future problems in any means he had two-three years left in him as he was 28 when we got him.
How is that comparable to buying Martinez, Neuer and Lewandowski when they were around 25 which means they can play key-roles in 5 years time and Gotze and Thiago who may still be there in a decades time.
The only players we spent more than 20 million pounds on since 04 when we signed Rooney was Berbatov who cost 31 and RVP who cost 22. So in the time we are talking about, Berbatov was the only signing that cost us more than 20 millions.
So I don't think we planned for the future in a manner we ideally should have.
I am not sure why you are bringing up Lewandowski when he has not even been a success for Bayern yet. He could turn out to be an even bigger flop that Berba and may not fit Pep's style at all. I have actually agreed with you that we should have spent more money once Ronaldo was sold.
The difference is in the amount of players they are signing who are absolute top class, even if Lewandowski completely fails they already have Neuer, Martinez, Gotze and Thiago there which is a great new base for a future team in comparison to what we tried to assemble in the same time.
So even if we agree we should have spent money better after Ronaldo was sold, I think we should have prepared for "what comes next" by adding one-two absolute top players per year instead of waiting until Ronaldo was sold to suddenly replace everybody which would take time to turn them comfortable in the new league/team.
The manager is the main reason. Fergie always liked buying from within England, particularly the biggest deals. And we replaced Fergie with another English manager, who, like many managers, returned to his previous club when looking to buy. If we get Van Gaal, and in 3/4 years time replace him with another foreign manager I'm sure you'll be able to look back and see that we've been more keen to spend big on overseas players.